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Wednesday, August 08, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-8-2018

Pittsburgh Press, August 8, 1918:

Harold (Hal) Chase, captain and first baseman of the Cincinnati club, has been indefinitely suspended because of indifferent playing, it was announced last night by Manager Mathewson. Chase was under a similar charge in 1913 while playing on the New York Americans and was traded by Manager Frank Chance to the Chicago Americans.

Air quotes weren’t a thing yet in 1918, so I guess peering between the lines was left to the readers. Hal Chase wasn’t indifferent at all, from what I can tell. Sometimes he tried as hard as he could to win, sometimes he tried as hard as he could to lose.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 09:47 AM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5722997)
An impressive Birthday Team today. They'll lead the league in intellectual bullpen discussions.

C: Jocko Milligan (20.57 WAR)
1B: Anthony Rizzo (27.4 WAR)
2B: Cupid Childs (44.26 WAR)
3B: Johnny Temple (17.19 WAR)
SS: Cecil Travis (29.54 WAR)
LF: Mike Ivie (7.32 WAR)
CF: Jose Cruz (54.41 WAR)
RF/Manager: Frank Howard (37.57 WAR)

SP: Ken Raffensberger (30.31 WAR)
SP: Toad Ramsey (19.93 WAR)
SP: Tot Pressnell (6.06 WAR)
SP: Ray Fontenot (4.47 WAR)
SP: Ken Holloway (4.07 WAR)
RP/Ivy Leaguer: Craig Breslow (6.33 WAR)
RP/Ivy Leaguer: Ross Ohlendorf (0.62 WAR)

General Manager: Doug Melvin
Backup C: Ron Karkovice (14.61 WAR)
Fun name: John Slappey
Matt's big brother: Jack Cassel
   2. Batman Posted: August 08, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5723038)
According to Karkovice's Wikipedia page:
He was called "Officer Ron Karkovice" by White Sox broadcaster Ken "Hawk" Harrelson due to Karkovice's physical resemblance to a stereotypical patrol officer, his hard nosed demeanor, and his skill in solving clubhouse crimes.
   3. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5723049)
Today's box-score-line records are 3-for-4 days with a bunch of RBIs. Most times with a given ab/r/h/bi line, regular season since 1908, trivia in bold:

4 3 3 3 : Three players did this five times each. Two are Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. The third is a post-WW2 NL RHB slugger that I guess I'd put in the HOVG; he was very good, anyway, despite a somewhat unpleasant surname

4 3 3 4: Only one hitter has done this five times. He's a star on a major-league roster right now, so he might still add to his 4334s some day; but oddly for a holder of such a record, he has fewer than 4,000 big-league PAs

4 3 3 5 : Two men have done this three times apiece, two RHB HOVG sluggers, relative free swingers (baseball-wise at least) whose prime years were in the 1990s

4 3 3 6 : Four have done this twice. Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, and then two others not in the HOF. Let's see: both RHB. Both played multiple infield and outfield positions. One played in all the years of the 1950s and the other in all the years of the 2000s. Both were at their best in the first round of the playoffs, one batting .500 and the other .388 in such games. Both played for the Cubs, Giants, and Braves

4 3 3 7 : 24 men have done this once, most recently Ryan Braun in 2016

4 3 3 8 : seven have done this once, most recently Jayson Werth in 2008

4 3 3 9 : Sammy Sosa is the only one with this line, in 2002

4 3 3 10 : achieved on two grand slams plus a 2-run homer in 1999 – anyone remember who?

   4. RickA. Posted: August 08, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5723055)
He was called "Officer Ron Karkovice" by White Sox broadcaster Ken "Hawk" Harrelson due to Karkovice's physical resemblance to a stereotypical patrol officer, his hard nosed demeanor, and his skill in solving clubhouse crimes.


Too bad he never played with The Crime Dog, Fred McGriff. If that were a TV show, I'd watch it.
   5. Nasty Nate Posted: August 08, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5723057)
4 3 3 4: Only one hitter has done this five times. He's a star on a major-league roster right now, so he might still add to his 4334s some day; but oddly for a holder of such a record, he has fewer than 4,000 big-league PAs
Goldschmidt? Stanton? Although your wording makes me think the player is inactive for some reason.
   6. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5723059)
Neither Goldschmidt nor Stanton, though you are right about the clue, Nate.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5723064)
All of the answers are Alex Rodriguez today.
   8. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5723066)
Alex Rodriguez is incorrect.
   9. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5723067)
4 3 3 4

Cespedes?
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5723068)
Alex Rodriguez is incorrect.
Horseshit.
   11. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5723071)
Not Cespedes for 4334, though the correct guy was once a teammate of Cespedes'.
   12. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5723073)
Donaldson!
   13. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5723076)
Yes, Josh Donaldson. Didn't seem right to call him active since he's missed 2+ months of play.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5723081)
4 3 3 5 : Two men have done this three times apiece, two RHB HOVG sluggers, relative free swingers (baseball-wise at least) whose prime years were in the 1990s
Completely off the top of my head: Albert Belle and Juan Gonzalez.
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5723083)
The third is a post-WW2 NL RHB slugger that I guess I'd put in the HOVG; he was very good, anyway, despite a somewhat unpleasant surname
Hank Sauer.
   16. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5723085)
Sauer is correct for 4333. Gonzalez is one of the 4335 guys, Belle is not the other.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5723093)
Then I'll go back to my original first guess: Greg Vaughn?
   18. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5723100)
No, not Greg Vaughn either.
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5723103)
Does the "baseball-wise at least" have any particular significance?
   20. Batman Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5723108)
4 3 3 10 : achieved on two grand slams plus a 2-run homer in 1999 – anyone remember who?
If it's not Alex Rodriguez, is it Fernando Tatis? I've asked that so many times.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5723109)
The two famous double slam days of 1999 were Tatis and Robin Ventura, but I don't think it's either one.
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5723110)
it has to be Fernando Tatis
That was my first thought too, of course, but no - he only had the 8 RBI in that game, but it was also in 1999. Quite a year for ridiculous games.
   23. Batman Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5723119)
I forgot about that 1999 10-RBI game. Of course, I don't remember the one that happened last month either.
   24. Batman Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5723122)
30 years ago today was 8-8-88, the first time the Cubs tried to play at night at Wrigley. Rizzo was born a year later.
   25. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5723126)
[Tatis] only had the 8 RBI in that game

Oh sure, "only" 8 RBI for the game, but then he did pack all of that into one inning.
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5723129)
Oh sure, "only" 8 RBI for the game, but then he did pack all of that into one inning.


Weren't both of them off the same pitcher (Chan Ho Park, perhaps)?
   27. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5723131)
I know that everyone is dying for their Devil Rays update. Last night starting pitcher Tyler Glasnow threw 4 innings. Three relievers then combined for the last 5 innings. While the Rays undoubtedly have the shortest starting stints in baseball, my guess is that they probably have the longest relieving stints. I suppose those go hand in hand but it's interesting to see anyway. Is shrinking your starter's workload down to 4/5 innings and expanding your reliever's workload to more than 1 inning a net gain or net loss? It's like they've decided to experiment for the entire league's benefit.
   28. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5723132)
30 years ago today was 8-8-88, the first time the Cubs tried to play at night at Wrigley


Ah geez. My father got a ticket to that game and flew from Philly to Chicago to see it. I was in Dallas watching on TV. Of course it was a fiasco. How could it have been anything but. I was so sorry for him. He wasn't too happy, himself :)

Now I'm older than he was then. Ah geez.
   29. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5723134)
Does the "baseball-wise at least" have any particular significance?


Nah, I just didn't want to reflect on either guy's extracurricular proclivities.
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5723139)
Hmmm...Ron Gant? Cecil Fielder?
   31. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5723143)
clubhouse crimes
When in doubt, Jason Grimsley did it.
   32. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5723148)
4 3 3 5: Sosa?

I guess you could make a reasonable case that his best seasons were in the aughts, but he did hit 129 home runs in 1998-99.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5723149)
Joe Carter?

   34. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5723154)
Jay Buhner? Tim Salmon? Andres Galarraga?
   35. salvomania Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5723155)
10-rbi game: Mark Whiten?

EDIT: although I may be thinking of his 4-homer game...
   36. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5723156)
4 3 3 6 : Four have done this twice. Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, and then two others not in the HOF. Let's see: both RHB. Both played multiple infield and outfield positions. One played in all the years of the 1950s and the other in all the years of the 2000s. Both were at their best in the first round of the playoffs, one batting .500 and the other .388 in such games. Both played for the Cubs, Giants, and Braves

Mark DeRosa?
   37. salvomania Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5723157)
For some reason I think the 10-rbi guy was an Angel... Tim Salmon?
   38. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 08, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5723158)
4 3 3 10 : achieved on two grand slams plus a 2-run homer in 1999 – anyone remember who?

Nomah
   39. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5723232)
OK, let's see: Galarraga is one of the 4335 leaders, along with Gonzalez.

Mark DeRosa is one of the 4336 leaders.

Nomar Garciaparra had the 4 3 3 10 day: the three home runs plus a foul out and a walk. He drove in ten of the Red Sox' 12 runs (Seattle scored four). It seems like an inordinate number of these weird high-RBI games are by Red Sox.

Other guesses not correct. That just leaves the guy from the 1950s who had two 4336 games, played IF and OF, was a Cub, Brave, and Giant, and hit .500 in playoff games.
   40. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 08, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5723236)
Bobby Thomson

Absolutely guessing
   41. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5723248)
Thomson is correct!
   42. EddieA Posted: August 08, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5723250)
Absolutely guessing


Looking it up so you know you are correct and then responding would be cheating.

Knowing a utility guy from the 50s is some pretty deep baseball knowledge.
   43. EddieA Posted: August 08, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5723251)
Had no idea that Thomson was a utility guy.
   44. PreservedFish Posted: August 08, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5723253)
Looking it up so you know you are correct and then responding would be cheating.


Sometimes I do that, but I also still post my guess even if I'm wrong.
   45. BDC Posted: August 08, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5723292)
Had no idea that Thomson was a utility guy


I don't know that he was a "utility" player as much as just a versatile regular. Thomson came up as a third baseman, but was adaptable enough to be a regular at CF and LF too.

The Giants' lineups in 1951-52 are very interesting. Thomson started nearly every day in '51 and truly every day in '52, and always had a set position, but the set position kept changing (unlike a utility man who might fill in on a daily basis, like DeRosa). Thomson began '51 in CF, then to LF so that Willie Mays could play CF, then 3B so that Monte Irvin could play LF, then back to CF in '52 when Mays went into the service.
   46. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 08, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5723324)
Yeah, Thomson wasn't a utility man, as BDC says, just versatile and willing to move around. He was also a good player, and far more famous than many comparable players of the era. Playing in NYC and hitting one of the most famous homers ever will do that for you.

ETA: all to say I disclaim any particularly deep baseball knowledge
   47. AndrewJ Posted: August 08, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5723533)
Forty years ago tonight I went to my first MLB game. Not too shabby a boxscore...
   48. Red Voodooin Posted: August 08, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5723759)
30 years ago today was 8-8-88, the first time the Cubs tried to play at night at Wrigley


The second most famous rain delay in Cubs history!

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