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Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-20-2011

Spokane Daily Chronicle, September 20, 1911:

“Long Tom” Hughes of the Washington club has a sure way of proving that he is a good pitcher.  He offers to lick any one who says he is not.

Long Tom wasn’t just making idle threats about fisticuffs.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 09:01 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 09:19 AM (#3930612)
Some great baseball notes in the Spokane newspaper 100 years ago today:
Pitcher Eugene Woodburn of the Cardinals is an able ventriloquist, and uses his accomplishment to amuse his fellow players.
Johnny Evers of the Cubs is a mere shadow of the Johnny Evers who was a miracle worker around second. He looks pale and has become very thin.
I've gotta figure out how Evers managed to eat a pound of fudge every day and managed to become very thin. Best. Diet. Ever.
Bob Harmon of the Cardinals is the poorest relief pitcher in the league. He has had very bad luck in his rescuing expeditions.
That's sort of difficult to believe. Harmon won 23 games in 1911, had an ERA+ of 107, and threw 28 complete games. If he really was that bad a relief pitcher, he must have been an amazing starter in 1911.
"Three-fingered" Brown is the pitcher the Cubs must now depend on for their best box work.
Brown had a career ERA of 1.66 heading into 1911. There were worse pitchers to depend on.
   2. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 09:48 AM (#3930614)
Last night Mike Stanton hit his 33rd and 34th HRs. His season total of 34 is now 7th all time among players age 21 or younger, and he has a shot for #3. Who are the other 6?
   3. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:02 AM (#3930615)
Conigliaro? Cedeno?
   4. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:16 AM (#3930616)
No and no. Cedeno as a 21 YO hit 22, and Tony C hit 24 at 19, 32 at 20 and 28 at 21.
   5. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM (#3930617)
Griffey? Rodriguez?
   6. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:52 AM (#3930619)
Eddie Mattress
   7. Jick Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:52 AM (#3930620)
Mel Ott?
   8. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:05 AM (#3930621)
A Rod is one, with 36 as a 20 YO in 1996. Not Griffey
   9. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:06 AM (#3930622)
Yes on Mathews and Ott. They are #'s 1 and 2.
   10. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:38 AM (#3930632)
Frank Robinson
   11. Hack Wilson Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:00 PM (#3930637)
Jimmy Foxx?
   12. Mike Webber Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:31 PM (#3930647)
Mantle?
   13. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:32 PM (#3930649)
Andruw Jones?
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:41 PM (#3930652)
Baseball Prospectus put their 1996 Annual online and it has lots of fun player reviews to back and look at.

Mariano Rivera:

Skinny swingman who has good control of the corners of the strike zone. His K rate seemed to jump up a little as of late, and if that's development rather than a fluke, this kid could really be something special. Looks way too skinny to be durable, but you never know.


Ruben Rivera:


I don't know anyone that doesn't think this guy's going to be nearly as good as the hype. You may include me in that bunch. Steady improvement, 22 this year, will take a walk, and hits the snot out of the ball.
   15. Hack Wilson Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:42 PM (#3930653)
Ruben Sierra?
   16. Greg K Posted: September 20, 2011 at 12:58 PM (#3930659)
1996 Cy Young Winner Pat Hentgen

Not sure why he pitched so badly, but his control was noticeably worse and he gave up a ton of hits. The Jays defense is getting worse this year, so don't expect a miracle out of him. He's got a big contract, which I doubt he'll ever live up to.


Of course the last 3 years of that contract were kind of bad.
   17. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 01:05 PM (#3930666)
From the '96 BPro Annual:
Three years ago, [Andy Stankiewicz] was drafted ahead of Kenny Lofton in a Strat-O-Matic league by the creator of the DTs. Many of you undoubtedly want your money back now.
I'd be making fun of this if my brother and I hadn't drafted Danny Tartabull ahead of Barry Bonds in a Pursue the Pennant draft in 1992.
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 01:18 PM (#3930674)
Paul Wilson:


Clearly the best pitching prospect in all of baseball. The only reason he didn't get a September call-up was to save space on the Mets' 40-man roster, a shrewd move which you don't see teams doing very often. Frankly, he may be the most anticipated pitcher since at least Tom Gordon in 1988, and possibly since Dwight Gooden in 1983. Could start on Opening Day for half a dozen teams.


Jim Edmonds:


That was random. Improved everything but his walk rate in 1995, going from marginal fourth outfielder to, for one year at least, the best center fielder in the league. Almost lost his job in May, but was the hottest of all Angels in June and July as they built their lead. Good defensively, strong, accurate arm. Will slip back toward average in 1996.


Jorge Posada:


There are worse catching prospects...in front of him on the depth chart.


Derek Jeter:


Another young turk shortstop, and most definitely the real thing. Does everything well except walk, and he's shown flashes of doing that for a few weeks at a time. Will win an AL batting title right around the turn of the century or so, and twenty years from now, people will be arguing over whether or not he or Rodriguez was a better player. Supposedly has a problem making the long throw from the hole to first, but who cares, and how much of problem is that anyway? I've seen him make that throw, and I don't see an appreciable difference between his arm and a dozen other shortstops.
   19. AndrewJ Posted: September 20, 2011 at 01:52 PM (#3930706)
"Long Tom" Hughes of the Washington club has a sure way of proving that he is a good pitcher. He offers to lick any one who says he is not.


Distracting us with your sexual perversions won't help, Tom.
   20. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 02:13 PM (#3930726)
From the "Pobody's Nerfect!" Department:

Hey, is that Joe Torre I see on the horizon? Boy, he's certainly a big step up over, um, Showalter, isn't he? I mean, he turned a promising catcher into an ignorable 3B, managed to allow pitchers to maintain their injury histories, and um, well, did lots of neat stuff.

The Yankees have decent prospects at several positions, and looking at some of the other teams, I would expect they're the envy of most organizations. Of course, knowing Joe Torre, he'll manage to send Derek Jeter down for some much needed "seasoning" and talk the Jim Frey clone of the month in the GM chair to trade for David Howard, Mike Bordick, and tickets to "Cats."


Also, reading through, it's amazing how snide BPro was back in the day. Joe Girardi is a "truly execrable hitter," while Steve Howe "may have a future in ticket-taking."

Also, it's kind of astonishing how much they missed the boat on the Yankees. I will grant it is hard to know that George was going to magically calm the hell down, but the way they talk about them you would never know that '95 was going to be the first year of making the playoffs in 16 of 17 seasons.
   21. Guapo Posted: September 20, 2011 at 02:49 PM (#3930775)
Breaking News: Baseball Prospectus loves Neifi Perez!

Gotta like that trend and age. Neifi poked 36 extra-base hits in 427 AB in New Haven, and is only 21 next year. EqA has steadily risen over three years; The Rockies seem to actually have themselves a bona fide prospect! He needs to learn not to swing at anything within a three-county area, but it looks very promising for Perez, who could be ready to take over in Coors when Weiss' new two-year deal is up.
   22. Guapo Posted: September 20, 2011 at 02:55 PM (#3930787)
Brent Gates:

Oh, what might have been. Gates played shortstop in the Oakland farm system, hit well almost immediately out of college, and has been consistently improving on defense. Unfortunately, his development has been stunted by nagging and freak injuries. He may still develop into something really special, but that 1994 campaign may have cost Mr. Gates an awful lot of money. I still think he's a got a year or two of hitting .330 in him. His platoon splits have really moved around a lot. His stroke reminds me a lot of Tony Gwynn's, and that's as high a compliment as I can pay the man. A keeper.


(Yes, I am only going to post ones that are ridiculous)

Jason Giambi:

One of Tony LaRussa's MediaTargets [tm]. Hit like crazy in the minors, with a bunch of walks, some occasional power, and a generally looping stroke. Will hit like crazy in the majors, too. The only question is whether or not his glove will survive the test of fire at 3B, or whether or not he'll be stuck behind McGwire. His release of the ball is a bit slow on his throws; sometimes, the fix for this causes a lot of elbow and shoulder injuries. See also Molitor, Paul. I'd put him at third, and I hope Art Howe does the same.


John Wasdin:

This is the A's #1 starter for the next seven to ten years if they're smart and/or lucky. I'd describe him as a younger Mike Mussina, but I like him more than that. Throws a variety of pitches, good sense on the mound, has a great command of the strike zone, has generally good stuff, and knows how to use his defense. His confidence may fade if he's forced to go back to the PCL, though. The Man.
   23. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 20, 2011 at 02:58 PM (#3930792)
Hey, if Neifi had in fact learned not to swing at anything within a three-county area, he would have been as good as Walt Weiss.
   24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 03:27 PM (#3930820)

(Yes, I am only going to post ones that are ridiculous)


I was looking for ridiculous ones too, and I was really struck by how on-target many of them were.

But there are some busts.

JR Phillips


Earned a look by hitting 937 HR in Phoenix in 1993 and 1994, along with such stalwarts as Murray the Accountant, and Les Nessman. I like him better than most, and I don't like him much. Pretty darn smooth with the glove, but the world's not ready for defensive specialists who play first base. Nonetheless, I think he's got it in him to have a 5-7 year career where he peaks at .270/.340/.520 or something. If he gets lucky and does that in the sixth year, he could be a rich man.


Darrell May

One of the biggest sleepers in the organization. He's probably the Braves' best left-handed prospect - he's a lot more polished than Terrell Wade - and if he can claim the fifth starter spot this year, he could surprise a lot of people.
   25. Gotham Dave Posted: September 20, 2011 at 03:57 PM (#3930850)
I love that Yankee organization soldier Nick Delvecchio got an awesome projection (.287 EqA!) even if they explicitly stated the projection was garbage. He was one of my favorites in Norwich in 1995. Their system must've had a bias towards Harvard men.
   26. Gotham Dave Posted: September 20, 2011 at 04:12 PM (#3930869)
Man, going back and looking at some 1996 stats is blowing my mind. Mariano Duncan's .340/.352/.500 is a 112 OPS+. 170 innings of a 5.01 ERA nets Doc Gooden 2.9 WAR.
   27. Bob Evans Posted: September 20, 2011 at 05:11 PM (#3930915)
Mariano Duncan's .340/.352

Stop right there, that's funny enough.
   28. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 06:39 PM (#3931024)
Frank Robinson

Jimmy Foxx?

Mantle?

Andruw Jones?


Ruben Sierra?


Sorry, had to go out most of the day. Robinson is correct 38 for 3rd place. Stanton has a chance to catch him.

None of the others are correct.

2 to go. One a future HOFer, the other...not.
   29. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3931060)
Albert Pujols?
   30. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:02 PM (#3931094)
Yes, Pujols. Now, for the ...not. FTR:

Mathews - 47
Ott - 42
Robinson - 38
Albert - 37
ARod - 36
????? - 35
Stanton - 34
   31. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:14 PM (#3931105)
Is Hal Trosky in there? He was known for starting fast (career wise) and fading early.
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#3931106)
The way you describe him, I guess it can't be Ted Williams.
   33. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:25 PM (#3931114)
Yes, Trosky.

Everyone over 30:

Mathews - 47
Ott - 42
Robinson - 38
Albert - 37
ARod - 36
Trosky - 35
Stanton - 34
Foxx - 33
Horner - 33
Canseco - 33
Miggy C - 33
Tony C - 32
Teddy B - 31
Andruw - 31
Ruben Sierra - 30


He's in pretty good company.
   34. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:30 PM (#3931121)
Hal Trosky was one heck of a ballplayer. If his career hadn't been derailed by migraines, he could have put up some really impressive career numbers. Gehrig, Foxx, Greenberg, Trosky - the AL was stacked at the position in the 1930s.

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