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Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-11-2012

Milwaukee Journal, September 11, 1912:

There was much speculation here today whether “Smoky Joe” Wood, who officiated on the mound for the Red Sox yesterday, will be credited with his fifteenth straight win. In the final half of the ninth, with the score 5 to 3 in favor of the [Red Sox], Mattick opened the inning with a double and Lord singled, toppling Wood from his perch. Hall relieved him and the White Sox rally fell one short of victory.

[AL President Ban Johnson] said he would have to hold his decision until after he had reached his office and “looked over the dope.”

The rules for awarding pitching wins are still a bit goofy sometimes, but at least we’ve reached the point where they aren’t arbitrarily awarded by league presidents.

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:12 AM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: ban johnson, dugout, history, joe wood

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   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:17 AM (#4232359)
Pretty good outfield on today's Birthday Team. Not much pitching.

C: Don Slaught
1B: Ray Grimes
2B: Eddie Miksis
3B: Eduardo Perez
SS: Jackie Hernandez
LF: Jacoby Ellsbury
CF: Steve Brodie
RF: Ellis Burks

SP: Frank Kitson
SP: 1970s Dave Roberts
SP: Bill Hogg
SP: Ernie Koob
SP: Mike Golden
RP: Frank Francisco

Owner: Jim Dunn
Manager: Jeff Newman
Two last names: Ellis Clary, Edwards Guzman, Monroe Mitchell
Indie Rock Hero: Ted Leo
   2. just plain joe Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4232399)
Two last names: Ellis Clary, Edwards Guzman, Monroe Mitchell


Ellis Burks wants to know if he can play too.
   3. steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4232420)
considering the date, and considering that this is a baseball message board, this* seems like an appropriate link.

and just because the timeline is amazing, this is what obama was doing 24 hours before announcing the successful raid on bin laden's compound. "just recently, in an episode of "celebrity apprentice", at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from omaha steaks. and there was a lot of blame to go around, but you, mr. trump, recognized that the problem was a lack of leadership, so ultimately, you didn't blame li'l john or meatloaf, you fired gary busey. and these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night."

not to turn this into a political thread, but the only commercial obama should run in the next 7 weeks is that quote followed by the announcement from the next night.




*i'll just mention it here to save sam hutcheson the trouble of posting it himself, yes, only in philadelphia would 43,000 fans break out into spontaneous cheers after the murder of a freedom fighter**. we're unspeakable reprobates, we know, but it's kind of just who we are.

**and now might be a good time to quote george carlin: "if fire fighters fight fire, and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight?"
   4. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4232454)
I've just been reading a book called "The Rotation" by Jim Salisbury and Todd Zolecki, about the assembly and the performance of the 2011 Phillies pitching staff. It's a really good book.

What strikes me the most is the different trajectories of the different pitchers. Cole Hamels is still establishing himself as a star, having taken it easy in 2009 with bad results, and is a lot less skinny than he used to be. Halladay and Lee seem to be fully on top of their game with no signs of slowing down. And Oswalt is at the very end of his career, mostly due to back problems, and the constant tornados destroying the houses of his various family members don't help either. His ERA is still good but his W-L record is not due to bad run support, it's due to pitching really well when his back feels good and really terribly when his back is in agony.

Anyway, that's why Oswalt sucks this year. Not because of moving to the AL.

Also I liked the extended metaphor that was drawn out of a clubhouse incident involving a toy helicopter.
   5. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:38 AM (#4232473)
Hey Steagles, did you hear about Jerry Lawler? I realize that he had to pass Wellness (which is supposed to be pretty solid) to perform, but no 62 year old should bump like a normal worker, the way Lawler does.
   6. AndrewJ Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4232504)
Cole Hamels is still establishing himself as a star, having taken it easy in 2009 with bad results, and is a lot less skinny than he used to be. Halladay and Lee seem to be fully on top of their game with no signs of slowing down.

And the Phils' top starter in the second half? Kyle Kendrick...
   7. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4232556)
And the Phils' top starter in the second half? Kyle Kendrick...


To quote my favorite baseball aphorism of all time, spoken by Joaquin Andujar- "You can sum it up in one word...you never know."
   8. steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4232591)
Hey Steagles, did you hear about Jerry Lawler? I realize that he had to pass Wellness (which is supposed to be pretty solid) to perform, but no 62 year old should bump like a normal worker, the way Lawler does.
i posted this in one of the other threads, but after what happened with steamboat, and mizawa, and now lawler, i just hope someone wakes up and realizes that NOONE ####### PAYS TO SEE 60 YEAR OLDS GET BEATEN UP BY GUYS IN THEIR PRIME WHO CLAIM TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

second thought on that was, if we're taking bets on who the next person to die in an american ring will be, ric flair's gotta be easy money, right?


anyway, since TNA is now gearing up for their biggest PPV of the year, where they'll hope to see 25,000 buys, i figure it's a good time to note that there were 100,000 people who bought ECW's first PPV -- barely leagal '97 -- despite the fact that they didn't tour national arenas and they didn't have a timeslot on national television, and before the PPV already aired, people were boycotting it.

actually, come to think of it, all of that might have been in their favor. by not touring nationally, and by not having a national broadcast, PPV might have been the only way for someone to ever see ECW -- excepting tapetraders, and whatnot -- and with the publicity that the opposition gave them, it probably raised their profile and made a good few potential buyers interested in seeing what the fuss was about.

And the Phils' top starter in the second half? Kyle Kendrick...
this is krafty kyle kendrick's world and we're all just living in it.
   9. BDC Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4232608)
pitching really well when his back feels good and really terribly when his back is in agony.

Anyway, that's why Oswalt sucks this year


Makes sense to me. I saw Oswalt pitch against the Twins on July 8th, and I wondered what all the despair was about: he looked perfectly comfortable, was economical with 102 pitches, and kept the Rangers in a game they eventually won in 13 innings. But man, he must have looked miserable several other times.
   10. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4232640)
i posted this in one of the other threads, but after what happened with steamboat, and mizawa, and now lawler, i just hope someone wakes up and realizes that NOONE ####### PAYS TO SEE 60 YEAR OLDS GET BEATEN UP BY GUYS IN THEIR PRIME WHO CLAIM TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

second thought on that was, if we're taking bets on who the next person to die in an american ring will be, ric flair's gotta be easy money, right?


Co-sign like whoa, save for Flair. Rumor has it he's headed back to WWE and the whole reason he retired in the first place was that Vince thought he was too risky to run out there. I'm actually not opposed to the odd bump for a fit old timer. But actually working matches? Bumping? Granted, Lawler was in there with three of the best workers in the company, but I agree that it's just ridiculous and not even good business to keep sending King out for matches. This was bound to happen sooner or later.



anyway, since TNA is now gearing up for their biggest PPV of the year, where they'll hope to see 25,000 buys, i figure it's a good time to note that there were 100,000 people who bought ECW's first PPV -- barely leagal '97 -- despite the fact that they didn't tour national arenas and they didn't have a timeslot on national television, and before the PPV already aired, people were boycotting it.

actually, come to think of it, all of that might have been in their favor. by not touring nationally, and by not having a national broadcast, PPV might have been the only way for someone to ever see ECW -- excepting tapetraders, and whatnot -- and with the publicity that the opposition gave them, it probably raised their profile and made a good few potential buyers interested in seeing what the fuss was about.


I think that's a little unfair to TNA, insofar as PPV buys and ratings were generally much higher before it became so easy to pirate shows. Of course, I think you're generally on the mark here: ECW did a great job of cultivating an image being "hotter". However, TNA's got a very different M.O. than ECW ever did. It does suck that 25k buys is their upside, though. Most WWE B-show ppv's only get, what? 150-200k? Mania and Rumble are the only safe 1M+ bets nowadays.
   11. esseff Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4232668)
NOONE ####### PAYS TO SEE 60 YEAR OLDS GET BEATEN UP BY GUYS IN THEIR PRIME WHO CLAIM TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD.


This guy scoffs.

Debut 1932
Retired December 26, 1990
   12. steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4232682)
I think that's a little unfair to TNA, insofar as PPV buys and ratings were generally much higher before it became so easy to pirate shows. Of course, I think you're generally on the mark here: ECW did a great job of cultivating an image being "hotter". However, TNA's got a very different M.O. than ECW ever did. It does suck that 25k buys is their upside, though. Most WWE B-show ppv's only get, what? 150-200k? Mania and Rumble are the only safe 1M+ bets nowadays.
i think the two ECW one-night-stands (yeah, i know) did about 300,000 buys each.

that TNA show they did a few years back with all of the ECW talent, that did 20,000 buys, and it was their second best buyrate of the year, despite not really having anyone on their regular roster on the card.

Debut 1932
Retired December 26, 1990
he was 58. that's a completely different story. also, i would put down money that the style of match that a 58 year old lou thesz would work in 1990 is slightly different than the ones lawler has been in the last few weeks. just a hunch, though.
   13. Greg Franklin Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4232691)
Dan Lee: is the Watching the Score Board sidebar to the Smokey Joe Wood win referring to the same game?

"Bodie's hit in the ninth would have tied the score, but Johnson, a White Sox runner, was hit by it and Wood got the game."

Stupid Johnson. I assume Ban J. didn't deny Wood the win, then?
   14. esseff Posted: September 11, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4232718)
#12 No, he made his wrestling debut in 1932; it's not his birth date. He wrestled into his 70s and won his last title in his 60s. EDIT: Or just to be clear, he "won" his last "title" in his 60s.
   15. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: September 11, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4232743)
Yep, Greg, same game and Wood did officially get credit for the win. He won his 16th straight game September 15, 1912, but that's as far as the streak got.
   16. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4232749)
he was 58. that's a completely different story. also, i would put down money that the style of match that a 58 year old lou thesz would work in 1990 is slightly different than the ones lawler has been in the last few weeks. just a hunch, though.


This. I've actually thought about Thesz in the last day, and I just can't imagine him doing back to back flying fistdrops on Monday Night after a weekend of wrestling in the Carribean. It goes back to what I said above: a limited, safe kind of bump is fine. There really isn't a place for working a match, particularly the contemporary WWE style, for older wrestlers.
   17. John Northey Posted: September 11, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4232802)
Athletes can last a long time. My dad still competes with 20 year olds despite being 78 in golf - and wins (at least one title each year since I was born, no handicap division). He knows another golfer who in his 90's has shot even par (oldest man to do it, also world record for the biggest spread between age and score in a good way with that same round). Now, there is a big difference between golf and wrestling, but at least it isn't scripted.
   18. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4232842)
Now, there is a big difference between golf and wrestling, but at least it isn't scripted.



Are you kidding me? Turning Woods into a heel was the most genius kayfabe ever!
   19. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4232881)
Athletes can last a long time.


Hershel McGriff.

He started racing stock cars in 1945; he came ninth in NASCAR's first superspeedway race, the 1950 Southern 500. He ran the lower divisions in stock cars out west for many, many years, driving as a regular well into his 60s. He still runs the occasional race - in June of this year, he ran the NASCAR K&N Pro Series West race at Sonoma, finishing 18th, at age 84.
   20. steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4232894)
Are you kidding me? Turning Woods into a heel was the most genius kayfabe ever!
well, except aren't the ratings and interest in golf floating in the bowl compared to what they were prior to tiger's decline. if that's the standard, then it's about as productive a heel turn as vince russo's in WCW circa.


and since we're on the topic of wrestling (and since this actually involves jerry lawler), i finally, finally tracked down my first real memory of being a wrestling fan. ECW hardcore TV circa august 2, 1997. there was a cage set up and sabu, rob van dam, bill alfonso, and jerry lawler were beating the hell out of tommy dreamer and the sandman (so far, so good). rick rude and the triple threat (the version with douglas, candido, and bam bam bigelow) were running interference on the outside trying to keep the rest of the ECW roster out of the cage. so, it's basically a stalemate on the outside, with dreamer and the sandman crucified inside the cage (basically their arms were extended straight out to the sides, and cuffed to the cage, so they couldn't protect themselves), getting whaled on by team titan (as in titancorp, as in titan towers, as in WWE).

so, all is lost, right? that fat #### jerry lawler came into our house, and beat our guys up (nevermind the fact that dreamer was my least favorite wrestler in ECW, and the sandman was an absurd gimmick -- albeit with a kickass entrance), and is gonna walk out with his head held high?

#### no. out comes taz. he runs off candido, breaks into the cage -- meanwhile alfonso, sabu, and RVD are climbing out of the cage as fast as a rocket climbs out of the atmosphere, leaving lawler, all alone, unaware of the lurking predator -- and then grapples a bit with lawler before choking him out with the tazmission. with taz focused on choking lawler to death, all of the king's minions climb back into the cage and start whaling on taz, who refuses to let go of the submission.

eventually they break lawler away, but the segment ended with the triple threat crushing taz, and standing tall over him, dreamer, and the sandman.


anyway, growing up in philly at that time -- being 10 years old, no less -- i watched that particular segment probably a half a dozen times anywhere from 10PM to 4AM, between prism, WGTW, and i want to say PHL-17 (but i might be mistaken about that last one), and today, is literally the first time i've seen it in the 15 years since.


so there's a bit of nostalgia for ya.
   21. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4232946)
I think Brandon McCarthy is feeling a lot better now.
   22. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: September 11, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4233059)
Game of the day (yesterday): Let's see, I think I'll agonize over this one for a while...

Reds 4, Pirates 3 (14).

Pittsburgh put two runners on against Mat Latos in the first, as Alex Presley singled and Andrew McCutchen walked. They added another in the third on a hit by Wandy Rodriguez, who also happened to be their starting pitcher. Meanwhile, Rodriguez didn't allow any runners through the first three innings.

McCutchen led off the fourth with a homer to open the scoring. After a foulout, Pedro Alvarez walked, Jose Tabata added a ground-rule double to move Alvarez to third, and Clint Barmes walked to load the bases. Rod Barajas then singled to bring in one run, and Rodriguez added an RBI groundout. Wandy promptly gave one of those runs back on a solo homer by Chris Heisey in the bottom of the fourth, and neither starter allowed another hit through the sixth.

Jose Arredondo replaced Latos to start the seventh; he hit Presley with a pitch, but didn't allow him to advance past first. Rodriguez gave up a leadoff hit to Joey Votto (who is apparently back now), and a two-out single by Todd Frazier chased him from the game, with Jared Hughes taking his place on the mound. Hughes's fourth pitch was ripped up the right field line by Dioner Navarro (who is apparently back now), ending up as a game-tying two-run double.

Sean Marshall worked the first two thirds of the eighth, coming out after allowing a single to Jose Tabata, who was stranded by Jonathan Broxton. Hughes hit Brandon Phillips with a pitch, then intentionally walked Votto after Phillips stole second, but stranded both of them on the bases. In the ninth, Broxton allowed a one-out double to Starling Marte, but retired the next two Pirates to leave him on base, while Jay Bruce drew a leadoff walk from Tony Watson and remained parked at first for the rest of the inning, sending the game to extras.

Aroldis Chapman came on for the tenth, so you'd figure on a quick inning. But McCutchen and Garret Jones started the frame with back-to-back walks on a total of nine pitches. Alvarez then struck out, and Tabata lined out; a passed ball moved the runners to second and third, and Gaby Sanchez walked behind them to load the bases and prompt Chapman's removal from the game. Sam LeCure coaxed an inning-ending groundout from Michael McKenry to preserve the tie. In the bottom of the inning, Chris Resop allowed a single to Ryan Hanigan, who was replaced by pinch runner Drew Stubbs. Phillips bunted Stubbs to second, and back-to-back walks by Heisey and Votto loaded the bases with one out. Ryan Ludwick grounded into a 3-2 force at home, however, and Bruce fanned to leave all three runners on.

LeCure worked a perfect eleventh; Joel Hanrahan did not. Frazier started the bottom of the inning with a walk, took second on a sac bunt and third on a wild pitch. Henry Rodriguez (neither the erstwhile Nationals closer nor the erstwhile power-hitting Expos outfielder, but a recent callup) drew a pinch walk to put runners on the corners, setting the stage for Devin Mesoraco and Phillips to strike out and line out (on a tricky catch by Tabata), ending the inning. JJ Hoover and Chris Leroux both worked 1-2-3 twelfths, and both allowed runners to reach first with two out in the thirteenth but advance no further.

In the top of the fourteenth, Alfredo Simon allowed a leadoff double to Brock Holt. Eric Fryer then walked, and McCutchen added an infield hit to load the bases with nobody out. Simon retired Chase d'Arnaud on a fly ball, got Alvarez to hit into a force at home, and induced a groundout from Tabata to keep all three runners from scoring. Rick van den Hurk entered for the bottom of the inning, allowing a hit to Mesoraco. Phillips then hit into a fielders choice, but the kind of bad choice in which both runners are safe (scored FBC-2, I guess). Heisey lined out, and Votto struck out, but a wild pitch then moved the runners to second and third. Ludwick then hit a grounder deep into the 6-5 hole; d'Arnaud fielded it at short, but couldn't maintain control of the ball, so Ludwick reached first safely and Mesoraco came home with the winning run.

It's a 14-inning game, and the teams combined to leave the bases loaded three separate times in extras. You would expect that game to do really well, and it does - it's #10 on the year so far, which is... not bad.
   23. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4233190)
9/10/11 was one of the best days of that season so far. It had four nine-inning games decided by one run, and it also had four extra-inning games, including one that went 11. Given my system's adoration of all things extra baseball, you'd figure that either one of the four extra-inning games would win...

Game of the day (last year): Cubs 5, Mets 4 ... or that the 9-inning game that beat all four of them would be really, really good.

The opening innings were relatively tame. Chicago picked up a run in the first when Reed Johnson doubled with one out and cleanup hiter Jeff Baker (shudder) reached on an error with two away to bring him home. Cub starter Randy Wells didn't allow a baserunner until the third, while New York's Chris Capuano kept his team close, allowing only a single to Geovany Soto in the second and nobody to reach in the third. In the top of the fourth, Baker reached on an error for the second time in the game, but the Cubs couldn't get the runner past first. The bottom of the inning saw the first real rally by the Mets when Lucas Duda and David Wright both singled with one out, and Angel Pagan hit into a force at second, then stole second. But Jason Bay grounded out to leave the tying and go-ahead runs in scoring position.

The Cubs extended their lead in the fifth as Geovany Soto walked, Wells bunted him to second, and Starlin Castro singled him to third. Johnson then reached on an error, Jose Reyes's second of the game; the run is earned because it would have scored even if the force at second were completed, but had a double play been turned, the Mets would have been out of the inning. The next two Cubs, sensing weakness were there really wasn't any, both hit into forces at second to end the inning.

Wells allowed a leadoff hit to Nick Evans in the fifth, Marlon Byrd picked up a single against Capuano with one out in the sixth, Lucas Duda doubled with one away in the bottom of the inning, Castro singled with one gone in the seventh, and Bay reached on an infield hit against Wells. Not a single one of these runners came around to score, and only one so much as advanced past his initial placement on the bases, but they still kept the pressure on the starters to some extent. Capuano was finally pulled at the beginning of the eighth, and Ryota Igarashi promptly set down the first two Cubs he faced. With two away, however, Alfonso Soriano and Byrd hit back-to-back doubles, adding a third run to the Chicago lead.

Wells remained on the mound to start the bottom of the eighth. He walked Willie Harris, gave up an RBI double to Reyes, and quickly departed, the game now in less good shape than it had been moments ago. Kerry Wood took the mound and allowed a single to Ruben Tejada, moving Reyes to third. Duda struck out, but Wright followed with an RBI single, trimming the lead to 3-2. Angel Pagan then whiffed as well. With Bay at the plate, Wright stole second; Bay made that pay off beautifully, singling to bring in both Tejada and Wright and give the Mets the lead. Wood turned around and picked him off of first, but the damage was already done - four runs in to blow the lead, scoring in very dramatically-staged fashion.

Bobby Parnell came on to work the ninth. He induced Soto to ground to third, where Wright commited his second error of the day, putting the Cub catcher on first (where he was quickly replaced by pinch runner Luis Montanez). Next up was pinch hitter Bryan LaHair, who doubled, moving Montanez to third, and was also pulled for a pinch runner, Tyler Colvin. (How often do you see back-to-back hitters pulled for pinch runners? Answer: Every September!)

Those two plays moved Chicago's win expectancy from 15% to 61% - favored despite being behind, which is about as exciting a situation as you can find in baseball. Especially when it pays off like this one did: Castro grounded back to the mound, and Johnson struck out, dropping the Cubs back to 19%. And with two outs, Aramis Ramirez picked up his annual late-inning game-winning hit, a two-run single to right, moving the Cubs all the way up to 84%.

That five-play span grades out as more exciting than two entire games that were played on this same day. Combine it with the nearly-as-thrilling Met rally in the eighth, and you've got a pretty classic nine-inning game on your hands, easily enough to make up for the fact that Carlos Marmol's outing was far tamer than usual (only one walk!) It's the #70 game of '11 so far - but squeezes into the top 10 among those that didn't reach extras.
   24. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4233208)
I think Brandon McCarthy is feeling a lot better now.

Problem there is the "ask." You gotta MAKE that #### happen, Brandon! Sheesh.

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