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Friday, September 14, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-14-2018

Sid Mercer of the New York Globe, quoted in the El Paso Herald, September 14, 1918:

The greatest outfielder and the greatest first baseman have played their last games on the Polo Grounds. But how different are the circumstances of their exit! Tyrus Cobb passed out [of baseball] standing on the roof of the Detroit dug out as he made a plea for the sale of War Savings Stamps…Hal Chase is passing out under a cloud. The charges [of match fixing] against him may never be fully proved, but Chase has been in trouble so often that the public is persuaded he is getting his just deserts [sic] now. Cobb has made his enemies in baseball, but none ever even hinted that he did not play the game honestly and with a whole heart.

Not yet, anyway.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 09:40 AM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5744222)
One of the worst Birthday Teams we've seen in a while. Wallach and Nichols, then go eat some pickles?

C: Bunny Madden (0.44 WAR)
1B: Troy Neel (3.73 WAR)
2B: David Bell (15.3 WAR)
3B: Tim Wallach (38.52 WAR)
SS: Jerry Coleman (6.48 WAR)
LF/Spare pitcher: Jack Dunleavy (0.63 WAR)
CF: Delmon Young (2.4 WAR)
RF: Gregory Polanco (6.43 WAR)

SP: Kid Nichols (116.12 WAR)
SP: Stan Williams (22.22 WAR)
SP: Dave Hillman (5.9 WAR)
SP: Josh Outman (2.63 WAR)
SP: Harry Parker (2.26 WAR)
RP: Chad Bradford (10.07 WAR)

Manager: Jim Fanning
Broadcaster: Jerry Doggett
Fun names: Jerry Don Gleaton, Icehouse Wilson, Joe Winkelsas
Umpires: Doug Eddings, Carlos Torres
   2. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 14, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5744235)
Wallach and Nichols, then go eat some pickles?


That's on October 13.
   3. BDC Posted: September 14, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5744238)
Today's trivia item is the box-score line 5 0 0 0, the "big collar." Which major-leaguer had more 5000 games (95) than anyone else? He is not yet eligible for the Hall of Fame, and though a well-known star likely to get some ballot support, he's a longshot for either HOF or HOM induction.

And here's some wackiness. I wondered what team in baseball history had the most guys go 5000 in the same game. Turns out the record is six: six players from the same team, in the same box score, all going 0-for-5 with no runs or RBI. It happened on the Fourth of July, 1925, at Yankee Stadium. The visiting Athletics lost 1-0 in fifteen innings, and the six A's who went 5000 were Sammy Hale, Bill Lamar, Bing Miller, Cy Perkins, Chick Galloway, and Lefty Grove. Grove, who threw a CG, finished his futile day at the plate by striking out to lead off the 15th inning, and then surrendered a walkoff single in the bottom of the 15th. Herb Pennock pitched a 15-inning shutout for the win.

One additional weirdness: the winning run was scored by Bobby Veach, and the winning RBI came from Steve O'Neill. These guys had been star players of their day, with Detroit and Cleveland respectively, but nobody associates them with the Yankees. They each played just a handful of games for New York, but combined for the winning combination in this one.

And another: it was the first game of a doubleheader. The A's won the second game 8-5. Hale and Lamar had two hits in the second game, Miller three; so they didn't even have bad days, all things considered. In fact all nine A's got at least one hit in the second game (Perkins and Grove sat, and Galloway had one hit to go 1-for-8 on the day).
   4. Sweatpants Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5744243)
Jimmy Rollins?
   5. BDC Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5744250)
Jimmy Rollins is correct! Luis Aparicio had 94 games of 5000. Aparicio also ranks second in 5100 games (15 of them), and I will get to those and others next week.
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5744281)
Today's trivia item is the box-score line 5 0 0 0, the "big collar.

I was wondering how many games of 5 0 0 0 with 5 K's (that's the Super Golden Sombrero)--it's been done 97 times. Alex Rios, Andruw Jones and Dick Allen each did it twice
   7. Batman Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5744283)
Chicago's first five hitters and their #8 hitter all went 5+ 0 0 0 in this game, which they still won. Claude Hendrix pitched a 14-inning complete game and had two of his team's three hits and both RBIs.
   8. dlf Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5744284)
CF: Delmon Young (2.4 WAR)


Delmon Young isn't the worst guy who was picked 1-1 (Chilcott, Taylor & Appel didn't make the show, others got only a cup of coffee) but might be the worst with a long career. He put up his 2.4 WAR in over 1,100 games. Among position players, Dave Roberts was at 0.4 in about 700, Shawn Abner -1.3 in just under 400 or, in the other direction, Bill Almon at 4.6 in around 1,200.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5744291)
SP: Kid Nichols (116.12 WAR)

Here's an oddity. Nichols skipped the 1902 and 1903 seasons to be co-owner, manager, and player for a AA team.

Given his performance in '04, probably cost himself another 12-15 WAR.
   10. Batman Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5744308)
Nichols may have cost himself 400 wins. He won 361 major league games and won 47 in those two AA years. He won 492 at all pro levels.
   11. Perry Posted: September 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5744313)
Which major-leaguer had more 5000 games (95) than anyone else?


Feels like Ian Desmond has done it 95 times just this year.
   12. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5744320)
Desmond has only four 5000 games this year, mostly because the Rox have the sense to put him way down in the order. But he's got 15 4000 games, and he managed to add a 6000 in there as well.
   13. BDC Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5744325)
Nichols may have cost himself 400 wins. He won 361 major league games and won 47 in those two AA years. He won 492 at all pro levels


Reminiscent of Jesse Burkett, who missed out on 3,000 hits by buying a minor-league club and playing there for several years. Burkett had 2,850 ML hits and at least another 650 in the minors. (As people noted in some thread the other day, these guys probably weren't much aware of their exact career totals.)
   14. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5744352)
1906 Cubs BB-Ref Page.

When you look at their pitchers’ stats, and add up the wins and losses, you get 115 and 36. But their team record is 116 and 36. Anyone know what the story is?
   15. Batman Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5744357)
The Cubs won by forfeit on August 7, 1906. That was part of a 48-6 run to end the regular season.

Edit: It was a forfeit because John McGraw didn't let the umpire into the Polo Grounds and tried to make one of his own players the ump.
   16. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5744361)
Ha—thanks!
   17. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 14, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5744365)
See, you just never see stuff like that anymore. I think old timey baseball was more fun than what we have now.
   18. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 14, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5744373)
(As people noted in some thread the other day, these guys probably weren't much aware of their exact career totals.)


And in 1901-1905 it was entirely possible that Kid Nichols's Kansas City team could end up being a major league team soon. (Probably not Jesse Burkett's Worcester team, although he might have made more money there than playing for Boston). The system was in flux, the NL was getting a bad reputation as not being family-friendly entertainment and who knew how long Ban Johnson's "American League" (rebranded Western League) would survive.

The Hughie Jennings biography went into how hard it was for him to make a decision what to do at the tail end of his career, after the NL no longer had a team in Baltimore and the AL ended up not having one in Baltimore either, after initially saying they would. Detroit got an AL team to replace their vanished NL team, but nobody would have believed at the time that Baltimore wouldn't have a team for another 50 years!

BTW, even the author of the book seems to not know Jennings ended up with the Phillies, since Brooklyn owned his NL rights and he had been expected to jump to the AL to get out of it.
   19. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5744381)
15

It was a forfeit because John McGraw didn't let the umpire into the Polo Grounds and tried to make one of his own players the ump.


OH, do I love me some John McGraw!
   20. Ziggy's screen name Posted: September 14, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5744383)
Ian Desmond nothing, now many does Chris Davis have this year?
   21. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 14, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5744385)
Chris Davis also has four 5 0 0 0 this year. And 25 4 0 0 0, if my count is right. Maybe if the Orioles had a better lineup he would get more chances to get a 5th out.
   22. Batman Posted: September 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5744387)
And when the Cubs didn't like the idea of a Giant umping their game, the Giant/ump awarded a forfeit win to his own team. The league disagreed with that.
   23. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5744510)
The 1906 Cubs didn't take over first place for good until May 25. On May 24 they were 25-13 and .018 behind the Giants, who had played four fewer games and were 23-11.

Even on June 30, the Cubs and Pirates had the same number of losses; the Cubs were 46-20, the Pirates were 42-20. Chicago won 4 of 5 in Pittsburgh in early July, including a sweep of a July 4 doubleheader, then went 37-8 with two ties (including the before mentioned forfeit) against the Eastern teams between July 9 and August 27, including 8-3 (one tie) against the Giants, to remove all doubt. Chicago lost only 2 games between August 6 and September 18, running off winning streaks of 11, 14, and 12 and allowing more than 3 runs in only one of the victories.

-- MWE
   24. SandyRiver Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5744525)
OH, do I love me some John McGraw!

My favorite comment on McGraw (source not known to me): He never ducked a fight, and never won one!

My 5000 guess was Omar Visquel, but maybe his bat had him too far down the order to get many 5 PA games.
   25. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5744527)
I was wondering how many games of 5 0 0 0 with 5 K's (that's the Super Golden Sombrero)--it's been done 97 times.


83 by non-pitchers.

One pitcher has actually accomplished this feat this year, the first time a pitcher has managed it in 10 years. Can you name him without looking it up?

-- MWE
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5744530)
Scherzer?
   27. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5744531)
Not Scherzer.

-- MWE
   28. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: September 14, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5744544)
5 strikeouts in a game (as a hitter) is called a Golden Deer. And the very elusive 6 strikeout game is a Golden Horn.

I will continue promoting these names until they catch on, or until nobody else is old enough to understand why they are good names.
   29. sotapop Posted: September 14, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5744574)
the very elusive 6 strikeout game is a Golden Horn.

I saw Sam Horn, in a rehab game in AAA, go 0-for-4 with four strikeouts. I'd imagine there's a 6 0 0 0 with 6 Ks somewhere with his name on it.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5744576)
5 strikeouts in a game (as a hitter) is called a Golden Deer. And the very elusive 6 strikeout game is a Golden Horn.

Since 4 K's is the "Golden Sombrero", shouldn't we stick with the hat theme?
   31. Nasty Nate Posted: September 14, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5744580)
I thought 5 K's was the Platinum Sombrero.
   32. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5744585)
I saw Sam Horn, in a rehab game in AAA, go 0-for-4 with four strikeouts. I'd imagine there's a 6 0 0 0 with 6 Ks somewhere with his name on it.


good guess

8 PAs 1-7 1BB 6K's
   33. Batman Posted: September 14, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5744610)
There have been 8 six-strikeout games, and two of them were in six AB's. Alex Gonzalez (the one who played for the Cubs later) did it in 1998, with half of them against Dwight Gooden, and pitcher Carl Weilman did it in 1913, mostly against Walter Johnson. Weilman pitched 14.2 innings in relief that day and Johnson, also in relief, pitched the last 11.1.
   34. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 14, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5744620)
One pitcher has actually accomplished this feat [0-for-5 w/ 5 K's] this year, the first time a pitcher has managed it in 10 years. Can you name him without looking it up?


I'll guess Cole Hamels. If I remember correctly, the Cubs scored a lot of runs (10, I think) in his only complete game.
   35. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 14, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5744639)
I was wondering how many games of 5 0 0 0 with 5 K's (that's the Super Golden Sombrero)--it's been done 97 times.
83 by non-pitchers.

we're definitely in the Golden Age of Platinum Sombreros

2010's--22 (not yet completed)
2000s 21
1990s 12
1980s 8
1970s 10
1960s 7
before 1960 6
there have been 5 so far this year including Judge and Stanton

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