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Monday, September 30, 2013

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-30-2013

Pittsburgh Press, September 30, 1913:

“Give me about two more players who will fight and keep things buzzing,” says [Reds manager] Joe Tinker, “and the club can be up there near the top all next season.”
...
“[My team is a] Nice lot of boys, all right—pleasant, finely behaved young gentlemen—but too polite and decorous to kick up a dust or even say ‘Bow wow’ to an umpire…Some of the players have grown more gingery, and I’ll get more fighters to add to the collection.”

Grit!

Tinker was out the door to the Federal League at the end of 1913, so we didn’t get to see what he could do in Cincinnati with more ginger.

The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 06:26 AM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, ginger, history, joe tinker

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 06:36 AM (#4554374)
Excellent pitching staff on today's Birthday Team. And fun fact: Dick Cox's given name is Elmer.

C/Manager: Gabby Street
1B: Craig Kusick
2B: Art Hoelskoetter
3B: Dave Magadan
SS: Carlos Guillen
LF: Jeremy Giambi
CF: Rusty Torres
RF: Seth Smith

SP: Robin Roberts
SP: Nap Rucker
SP: Johnny Podres
SP: Johnny Allen
SP: Jose Lima
RP: Kenley Jansen

General Manager: John Mullen
Giggity: Dick Cox
Other fun names: Zinn Beck, Blackie Carter, Jennings Poindexter
Umpire: Ed Rapuano
   2. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 30, 2013 at 08:08 AM (#4554392)
even say ‘Bow wow’ to an umpire

I wonder how Cowboy Joe West would handle that?
   3. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 30, 2013 at 08:21 AM (#4554397)
I had forgotten how good Carlos Guillen was for a half-decade. He was a run-of-the-mill SS for a few years and then started hitting better and better. STERIODS! (just kidding)

July 31, 1998: Traded by the Houston Astros with a player to be named later and Freddy Garcia to the Seattle Mariners for Randy Johnson. The Houston Astros sent John Halama (October 1, 1998) to the Seattle Mariners to complete the trade.

I think the market for short-term help has changed in the last 15 years. Seattle got quite a haul for a guy who walked in the off-season. Then again, Johnson had a phenomonal stretch run for the Astros. Unfortunately, he couldn't pitch to the score with his 0-2, 1.93 ERA post-season.
   4. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: September 30, 2013 at 08:49 AM (#4554407)
Up at THT: Best and worst reliever seasons in recent years. Based on a pair of recent columns, it looks at the most extreme seasons by relievers from 1987-2012.

Before clicking on the link above, can you guess any of the pitchers in the top five best seasons? You should be able to get at least two, but my hunch is that not a damn person here will guess #1.
   5. BDC Posted: September 30, 2013 at 08:49 AM (#4554408)
Just noticed that all five NL teams still alive are "original eight" franchises, as are the top four in the AL: leaving only Tampa Bay and Texas as "expansion" entries. A Cleveland Wild Card victory would mean that all final eight teams are "originals," which hasn't happened yet in the wild-card "era."
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 09:33 AM (#4554448)
Ah, Jeff Montgomery. Yea, his 1989 was so great, the team went out and wasted $9 million on Cy Young winner Mark Davis because Monty wasn't a PROVEN CLOSER.
   7. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: September 30, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4554494)
Game of the day will at least be delayed today, since my computer seems to have crapped out on me yesterday evening; it may or may not be possible for me to go through the last few days of this season and of 1977 in the foreseeable future. (Would have been nice if this had waited just a couple more days...)
   8. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 30, 2013 at 10:49 AM (#4554505)
During these Game 163s, all the other teams should play scrimmages. Injured Phillies vs. Healthy Phillies, Rookie Marlins vs. Non-Rookie Marlins, Lastros vs. Disastros...
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:00 AM (#4554518)
I was reading about 1981, and I read that the Royals were shooting for the Second Half Division title and were in a race with the A's, who had already won the First Half Division Title. The article said that if the Royals won the title, they'd get to have two home games, otherwise, they'd only get one.

Is that how it worked? If you won both division halves, you got to have four home games? So the Royals would make the playoffs despite not winning any division title (and there were no WC back then).

Also, the Royals had to play a makeup doubleheader against the Indians to determine if they would clinch the second half. They won the first game to clinch, so they cancelled the second game. Does anyone ever recall a make up game that was scheduled to be played because it was necessary, only to have the team clinch the day before or so to render that game meaningless? It would be really annoying for like the White Sox to have to travel to Texas to make up a game on Monday just in case, only to have Texas clinch on Sunday rendering the game meaningless.
   10. Gary Truth Serum Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4554563)
Is that how it worked? If you won both division halves, you got to have four home games? So the Royals would make the playoffs despite not winning any division title (and there were no WC back then).


Yes, this was exactly it. Since it was decided that the four first half winners had already clinched a post-season berth, and since MLB did not want to forego divisional series revenue, it was decided that the first half winners would play somebody regardless of whether they won the second half as well. If they won both halves, the other berth would go to the team that finished second in the second half.*

So in order to give the first half winners something to play for, they decided that you would get four of five home games if you won both halves. In the AL West that meant the A's would get four home games if they won the second half as well, an advantage I'm not sure they cared about. But the Royals had clinched a postseason berth because they were at worst going to finish second in the second half. So they had to play Cleveland solely to determine whether they would finish first or second, and thus get an extra home game. (And the A's swept the Royals in three games in the divisional series, making the Royals makeup games in Cleveland completely irrelevant.)

*It originally was going to be the team that had the best overall record among the other division teams, but it was discovered that the Reds and Cardinals, who barely lost out of their first half titles, could lose games during the pennant drive in order to ensure that the two halves weren't won by two different teams. If they weren't, the other spot would likely go to them instead.
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4554578)
Thanks Gary. What was the rationale behind splitting the season into halves, rather than just resuming the standings from where they left off?
   12. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4554581)
What was the rationale behind splitting the season into halves, rather than just resuming the standings from where they left off?


$$$

*It originally was going to be the team that had the best overall record among the other division teams, but it was discovered that the Reds and Cardinals, who barely lost out of their first half titles, could lose games during the pennant drive in order to ensure that the two halves weren't won by two different teams. If they weren't, the other spot would likely go to them instead.


Tony LaRussa, then managing the White Sox had also talked about the possibility of losing on purpose in order for them to get to the postseason. The right circumstances never came to pass, but there was a possibility it could have.
   13. Steve N Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4554592)
Robin Roberts, my favorite player ever.
   14. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4554608)
Twitter is saying that Dale Sveum is out as Cubs manager. I approve if true.
   15. Born1951 Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4554613)
Going into the last game, Dan Uggla was 80-for-446 for a .179 average. The record for lowest BA with at least 440 AB since 1901 is Rob Deer, who also hit .179 in 1991. Carrying out to 4 places, Deer's average was .1786 (80-448), slightly lower than Uggla's .1794. But Uggla went 0-2 yesterday, ending up at 80-448, an exact tie with Deer. And Uggla's teammate B.J. Upton hit .184 in 391 AB. That has to be the lowest averages ever for two regular players on one team.
   16. esseff Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4554626)
Robin Roberts, my favorite player ever.



You might enjoy this
   17. zonk Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4554628)
Twitter is saying that Dale Sveum is out as Cubs manager. I approve if true.


Yup - he's out... on the Trib's site now.
   18. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4554629)
Rumor immediately starts that Joe Girardi might look at the Cubs job, and vice versa.

Gardenhire is coming back, Terry Collins, too.
   19. zonk Posted: September 30, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4554638)
I'm fine with Girardi... not wholly in love nor do I think he's the "answer"...

The next Cubs manager is truly going to rise or fall with the fortunes of Castro, Rizzo, Lake, Castillo - and eventually, Olt/Edwards/Johnson/Almora/Soler/Baez/etc.

Whether it's his fault or not - if they scuffle or regress, he'll be gone in a handful of years, too. If they don't - even if the team still struggles to get to .500 - he'll be around a while.
   20. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4554751)
Scott Miller has Jose Fernandez as the 2nd best pitcher in the league, but not ROY.
   21. Steve N Posted: September 30, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4554919)
Thanks esseff.
   22. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: September 30, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4554924)
Recap of Nats predictions: Bill Ladson ... wow.
   23. sinicalypse Posted: September 30, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4555248)
as an aside, i just wanted to chime in and say that today is one of the saddest days of the year for me; the last day for the daily box scores.

it kind of hit me one early morning @ a mcdonalds having a coffee and a mcamalgamation with my morning fix of last night's action (yeah, the internet's right-f'n-now paradigm kind of killed some of the inherent joy of morning box scores, but i often try to keep everything unrelated to fantasy fresh for the constitution signing)

ahem. yeah, it hit me at mcdonalds that morning: all is good in the world as long as you can wake up and check the box scores in the morning's paper. baseball has long been it's own self-contained little universe, a semi-traveling circus sideshow of these odd millionaire manchildren who go out and exhibit an artform of the wonderful game we played as children.

with ~7 fantasy teams each year alongside mlb.tv's offering of every game/radio-broadcast (gotta love mix and matching various picture feeds with various radio broadcasts) it's easy for me to get burned out on the regular season by the time august rolls around, only to be drawn back to full attention when the playoffs start. someone grab simba and cue up the circle of life on the ipod hooked up to the PA system.

so yeah, today's the last day of the full-on spectacle of the proper baseball universe. now it's time for the tournament, sponsored by bud's game163 brand water! guaranteed to quench the thirst of even the most demanding network executives since 2002!

forgive my verbiose tangent, gentlemen... take care and have a wonderful tournament!
   24. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: September 30, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4555509)
And Uggla's teammate B.J. Upton hit .184 in 391 AB. That has to be the lowest averages ever for two regular players on one team.


Well, in 1968 (yeah, I know), the Tigers (most) regular SS hit .135, and their 3B hit .200, so their combined average was a mere .335, much less than the Braves duo. And they won the WS.
   25. Walt Davis Posted: October 01, 2013 at 12:42 AM (#4555523)
#20 ... also ...

Cabrera not only is the game's most feared hitter, he continues to produce historically significant numbers (.348/.442/.636, 44 homers, 137 RBIs). As friend Jayson Stark of ESPN.com notes, the last right-handed hitter to produce a slash line like that with as many homers was Jimmie Foxx.

Manny 1999 333/442/663/44
Pujols 2003 359/439/667/43
Pujols 2006 333/431/671/49
Pujols 2009 327/443/658/47
Sosa 2001 328/437/737/64
Mac 1996 312/467/730/52
Hank 1971 327/410/669/47
Mays 1954 345/411/667/41
Mays 1955 319/400/659/51
FRob 1966 316/410/637/49
AROD 2000, 2005, 2007
Belle 1994 357/438/718/36 (it was the f'ing strike year! see also 1995 and 1996)
Kiner 1947, 1949, 1951 (BA a little low maybe)
Greenberg 1937, 1938, 1940

Depends on what you mean by "a slash line like that" of course.

On his #2 pick: Trout? Best individual player in the game.

He puts Kershaw #4 on the MVP ballot despite his admitted bias against listing a pitcher on MVP but moves Puig ahead of Fernandez in RoY because Puig was an everyday player (once he arrived) ... and he miscredits the Dodgers turnaround to Puig's arrival.

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