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1. SG Posted: May 01, 2012 at 06:16 AM (#4120478)Socialists, all of you.
Because after ending a long, team-friendly contract, it was his duty to stay with the Cards on a 5-year deal and forego a 10-year offer?
Well it is formal league policy that paying your players too much money deserves to be penalized. Why doesn't Pujols support this philosophy?
Will my perception of him change if he's done as a good player? Yes, absolutely. He's still a HOFer but not inner-circle, IMO, by the bus test. To be inner-circle you need Pujols like numbers early and a long graceful decline. However, in the end, the end will likely be ugly for everyone. The earlier and more unexpected the end, the uglier it is likely to be.
Only 9 5/6 years to go....
Dear God, you're going to kill the internet.
Is Hatcher's contract really that long?
I know mine did. To be specific, I didn't think he was smart enough to take the best offer on the table and walk away, rather than just blindly accepting the best proposal from the Cards. Good for him!
Same here.
yes.
I'm a Mets fan, and I know quite a few - some who are upset at Reyes that he "left"- I ask them, you are aware that teh Wilpons offered him -0- to stay? They say, "yeah, but"
But what?
One guy even said that Reyes should've done what Dawson did back in the 80s- given them a blank contract and let the Mets fill in the terms (I was really tempted to say, what are you, a socialist?").
Pujols gave the Cardinals a "hometown" discount with his last contract, what more do you want? Basically this time, Moreno blew away the Cards offer.
tl;dr I think Pujols would be happier in St. Louis. But hell, I've never met the man.
Pujols said he intends to speak with Hatcher about the matter.
Potkettle. PotKettle, potkettle, potkettle. P-O-T-K-E-T-T-L-E.
I'm not sure why the world has turned on Pujols, and I can't claim to have been paying attention, but I thought he'd been pretty professional in keeping his mouth shut while grinding through this cold streak. It has to be an incredibly difficult position for him: new city and team, huge dollars and one of the worst spells in his entire life all at the same time. If this is his first misstep it seems to be a minor one.
EDIT: To be clear he's wrong to repeat Hatcher's mistake of talking to the press. A platitude of no value to the reporter would have sufficed and he could have spoken to Hatcher and achieved the same end without looking like a whiner.
Yes, that's about the only way to read Hatcher's remarks. They're right out of the Book of Clichés, Chapter 2, "What to Step Up and Say When You and Your Team Are in a Slump."
He's always whined if the press wanted to make it look like he's whining. STLToday would constantly alternate between praising him to high heavens and then writing an article where he looked like a sulking whiner.
He's an intense ballplayer who doesn't really like off field distractions.
More than the hometown discount, he really did try to stay to be honest, but he wanted to stay if he felt he was wanted and if he felt he would be there for the rest of his career, the Cardinals didn't really offer him anything that said that, until he got the offer from the Marlins.
The Cardinals didn't do anything wrong, they just didn't do anything right either. If you want to get a hometown discount, it's a two way street and you have to make the player feel like he is wanted. Offering him a contract before the season, then not talking to him the first 10 days he's fa eligible, then reducing the offer to a five year deal, isn't really an indication that you really desire to keep the guy.
He's probably going to stay there as long as Scioscia does. I think the only times he's ever replaced a coach have been the times when one of his coaches gets his own managerial job. I'm thinking of the main coaching spots - 1B, 3B, bench, pitching, hitting. I think there has been some turnover in the bullpen coach, and for all I know there might be other coaching positions.
And go to the Phillies?
1B: Alfredo Griffin
Hit: Mickey Hatcher
Pitching: Bud Black, left to manage SD, replaced by Mike Butcher
3B: Ron Roenicke, replaced by Dino Ebel when Maddon went to TB and Roenicke became bench coach
Bench: Maddon, then Roenicke, then Rob Picciolo when Roenicke went to Mil.
Fire Mickey Hatcher is a popular war cry whenever the team hits an extended slump or another promising young player appears hopelessly screwed up. But it's not likely to ever happen unless there is a regime change.
That might have happened if the end of their 2011 season had signalled the end of the Ryan Howard era instead of the beginning of his contract extension.
????????
Jeeez guys who are openly "devout" and dedicated to "family values" are the ones who are most likely to place "cold hard cash" first and foremost in my experience.
*barf*
Seriously, he left one baseball team to sign with another baseball team. He didn't leave the ACLU to join Bendini, Lambert & Locke.
Families are expensive, so by taking the most money he's actually living up to his values.
Particularly for a guy Pujols' age; he may well be supporting his grandchildren & great-grandchildren & their various significant others & offspring.
Hmmm, on balance aren't mobsters better clients than terrorists? :)
Dear God, you're going to kill the internet.
Well played.
For what it's worth, I do think that Pujols may have been happier in the long run with less money in St. Louis. But that is a decision almost no one will be able to make, no matter how grounded and full of perspective they are.
An overhyped prospect who's scuffling in his first taste of the big leagues after 10 years of success at AAAA.
Pujols is, of course, a Southern Baptist. I'd imagine that a devout Baptist might have a problem playing for a team owned by a beer company, in a stadium named after a brand of beer, with a bunch of drunks around him at every level of the franchise.
Even Los-Angeles-of-Anaheim might start looking like a clean, moral alternative next to that mess.
And yet somehow he soldiered on for a full decade. It's almost as if he put money over his principles, or something.
I know this was a joke, but you realize the beer was named after the stadium, right?
Piss Stadium?
To be more specific, Augie Busch wanted to name the original Busch (i.e. Sportsmans Park) "Budweiser Stadium," MLB said no, so they renamed it Busch in 1953 and brought out the beer brand in 1955.
Also, the brewery no longer owns the ballclub, and hasn't since 1996.
Distinction without a difference. The stadium was originally going to be named Budweiser stadium but Ford Frick vetoed it, and so they instead named it Busch, after the owner, and then immediately created a beer with that name.
This, in my experience, is a bit outdated. Many of the more fervent evangelicals* that I know are into home brewing, for example.
* very distinct from that denomination, mind you
Plus he has more to tithe to the church!
I am going to take a random guess and assume you have never been offered a 10-year contract worth $254,000,000.00.
It's worth noting that 249 of those PA come from beating up on Royals pitching since they're the Cardinals' "natural rival".
Growing up, I was always told that, if I invited one Southern Baptist to go fishing, I'd better invite two. Because if I invited only one, he'd drink all my beer.
For what it's worth, I do think that Pujols may have been happier in the long run with less money in St. Louis. But that is a decision almost no one will be able to make, no matter how grounded and full of perspective they are.
I am going to take a random guess and assume you have never been offered a 10-year contract worth $254,000,000.00.
Nope. Obviously, I don't know many of the pertinent details and I don't blame him at all for grabbing the money. But, to take an example I am familiar with: say I'm paid 100K working at a job I enjoy, in a place I like, with people I love. Now, I'm offered 200K to do the same job, but with a different set of clients, in a place I don't like as much and with people who, it turns out, I don't care for much.
Which job makes me happier? I think, very probably, the 100K job. As you say, though, I doubt I'd think very long before taking the 200K job.
Again, caveats for not really having any idea how much Pujols liked St. Louis or Anaheim or the people he worked/works with. I just do know that how a place seems on a visit or how people seem during an interview don't always pan out to be accurate.
Pretty sure those scare quotes should have been around pitching and not natural rival in that sentence.
But that's the thing, this is not something any of us are familiar with. With an extra 100K I clime the ladder a bit, better car, better tv, easier time paying the bills, maybe my wife stays home from work, etc. When you are talking hundreds of millions, you can do whatever you want aside from buying a small country. What an extra house in the Caribbean, done. Massive yacht, done. Au pair 'for the kids', done. And it's not only you, it's everyone you want to become comfortable in life..
Again, I really have no idea what all went into his decision. I'm just saying "the most money" is not always the way to go. It's a pretty mild statement, I think. I also completely agree that most of us probably go with the most money anyway.
Exactly. And think too that the Cardinals and Angels are basically different stops on exactly the same entertainment circuit. Now, if Pujols (to echo #31) had suddenly been offered $300M to become a motivational speaker for George Soros, on condition that his family live in Brattleboro, Vermont, there might be a point to "money isn't everything." But he's still playing first base for somebody; why not play it for more money?
Career interleague numbers for Pujols: .348 / .438 / .632 (635 PA)
Career interleague numbers for Pujols, omitting Kansas City: .330 /.414 / .593 (386 PA)
Either way, he's not used to slugging under .300 against the AL.
I think maybe it just irritates me to no end that once again the Cardinals live in a Cosmo Kramer-like existence where every decision immediately turns to gold. I get that not signing him was smart, but I was really hoping for a red-hot Pujols start that would trigger an avalanche of forum posts over at stltoday.com
If the Cardinals were sure Pujols would put up 10 years like the last 10, they would have been happy to match the contract. They weren't, they didn't; he went somewhere else.
His called strike percentage is far above his career norms. He's taking the first pitch far more frequently this year and (like most players) he's been pretty good on fist pitchers.
Bad combination so far, taking more first pitch strikes than usual.
EDIT: Not that this is responsive to your point. I just wanted to see if he's been swinging and missing more than he has in e past.th
#### ####
This. This. This.
I suppose it's true of other NL Central teams, too... but as a Cubs fan, I feel like Frank Grimes sometimes...
I don't need to worry about signing crappy pitchers like Kyle Lohse because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals... I can trade away my young would-be star CF for pitching flotsam, even near the height of his value and have it work out perfectly because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. I can let my franchise player walk without it turning into a debacle because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. D'oh, D'oh, D'oh! Look - now I'm trading my blue chip 3B prospect for an OF rental who I probably can't afford to keep. I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. Now I'm handing bullpen roles over to waiver fodder. D'Oh, D'Oh, D'Oh. I don't need to develop 10 premium SP talents because the ones I have will all work out, and I'll even have the flamed out ones come and suddenly get healthy and be CY contenders. D'Oh, D'Oh, D'Oh.
A lot of that was probably Dave Duncan. We'll see what happens now.
One of the rules the Cardinals seem to live by is to not fall in love with their hyped prospects / young guys. This is not a popular philosophy on Internet message boards.
I loved every single word in that post. Thanks for the laugh.
Those idiots would be still able to find a way to blame TLR for everything, and even more hilarious, they would be able to find a way to claim that Matheny is really a Herzog protege and that he's bringing back whitey ball. (Matheny used three pitchers today for three batters)
Next stop: the mendoza line.
I watched that AB and was shocked at how bad Pujols looked after the long foul ball. The second strike was an especially ugly half swing that made me think he was guessing at what was coming.
This. This. This.
I suppose it's true of other NL Central teams, too... but as a Cubs fan, I feel like Frank Grimes sometimes...
I don't need to worry about signing crappy pitchers like Kyle Lohse because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals... I can trade away my young would-be star CF for pitching flotsam, even near the height of his value and have it work out perfectly because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. I can let my franchise player walk without it turning into a debacle because I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. D'oh, D'oh, D'oh! Look - now I'm trading my blue chip 3B prospect for an OF rental who I probably can't afford to keep. I'm the St. Louis Cardinals. Now I'm handing bullpen roles over to waiver fodder. D'Oh, D'Oh, D'Oh. I don't need to develop 10 premium SP talents because the ones I have will all work out, and I'll even have the flamed out ones come and suddenly get healthy and be CY contenders. D'Oh, D'Oh, D'Oh.
This made my night.
Whaddya mean, Rasmus has a higher OPS+ than Bautista this year! :-)
I am almost afraid to ask what does this mean exactly?
****
ANd why the hell is it the "Mendoza line.?" WHy not the "Belanger line" or the "Oyler line?"
ANd shouldn't there be corollarly? Like the "Dale Berra" line? For how much hitting does it take to mitigate poor fielding (as well as whatever else Berra messed up). I mean the concept is the same as the Mendoza line is it not?
And why not an Arky Vaughn line instead of a "Berra line?" Would that be a true distinction? or something else entirely?
I mean why is it ALWAYS Mendoza? The same concept is embodied in Dale Berra.
I am sure Pujols starts hitting soon if he is healthy.
One thing that has crossed my mind is that if players are still using steroids (probably shorter acting testosterone to avoid detection in testing), they may go off them for health reasons after securing the long term deal. Since the body in many cases fails to make enough testosterone after stopping steroids, the players may suffer from testosterone deficiency and experience symptoms like fatigue and loss of strength, which is not very good for performing at an elite level in any sport. This could explain some players performance going off a cliff after signing a big long term deal.
i do believe i'm going to get it tattooed to my arm so i can read it at my leisure ...
George Brett coined the phrase. He said he always hated starting the year off slowly and seeing his batting line in the Sunday papers listed below Mario Mendoza's.
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