One thing for sure: Soriano doesn’t handle himself in defeat the way his predecessor did. Nobody was more accountable or classier when he did blow one than Rivera.
Soriano should have paid more attention.
Because after giving up the three-run home run to Colby Rasmus with two outs in the ninth that put the Blue Jays ahead — temporarily, before they won the game in the 11th — Soriano bolted the clubhouse.
He was gone before the Yankees’ PR people could even find him to ask if he would answer questions from the media.
And don’t get this wrong: it’s not a media issue, it’s an accountability issue. It’s about being a professional in a clubhouse that has oozed professionalism since the day Derek Jeter showed up some 16 years ago.
...No question about that. You can even make a case that Soriano has been the Yankees’ MVP this season, especially considering that he was replacing such a legend.
...And indeed, there was something about Soriano’s blown save that felt rather ominous — and it had nothing to do with his no-show in the clubhouse.
Rivera’s shadow looms large for a guy who’s never done it when it really matters.
Repoz
Posted: August 28, 2012 at 09:33 AM |
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1. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: August 28, 2012 at 09:41 AM (#4219947)Jeter has lost control of the clubhouse.
I dearly hope this happens. Would be the best thing about the '12 season.
I can't believe it will actually happen. They've got a relatively easy schedule for September so I think they'll be fine.
Die, Yankees.
Since we're discussing it, I am still very confident of the Yankees winning the AL East. Their "real" Magic Number is 30* and they have 34 games left. They play Toronto nine more times--including five at Yankee Stadium--and Minnesota three times. They also play the Orioles, who don't scare me even a tiny bit, seven times. Outside of Baltimore, they play contenders nine more times (3-game sets home-and-home vs. TB, hosting Oakland).
*MLB lists it as 32, but the Rays and Orioles play each other three times, so that's the difference
If the Yankees can go .500 in that stretch, which I would call a conservative estimate, that means TB (who still need to play the Rangers and White Sox nine more times) would have to go 22-13 to force a tie, and 23-12 to win outright.
Confidence Level: High
If it were really an accountability issue, Soriano would have bribed the official scorer to assign those runs to somebody else, and remove his appearance from the boxscore. Seeing as how he probably didn't do that, it's … a media issue :)
First Jeter, now this. Who does Robinson Cano need to kill to get some attention?
Mike Trout.
Oh, JUST. SHUT. UP.
Bernie, Paul, Andy and Mo were sooooo unprofessional in 1995, until the 21 yr old shows up when Tony Fernandez went on the DL. Tony wasn't hitting for crap in '95, but Jeter's oozing professionalism helped the Yankees go 2-10 in the first dozen games he played at shortstop. Why they sent him back to the minors, I'll never know; no wonder the Mariners beat them in the playoffs that year!!
Aw Tom, that makes my day!
It's a self-serving media-created equation that states that 'talking to the media after a game' = 'taking accountability'. The rest of us don't have to buy it.
If you guys need me to weigh in with a prediction, I will. Yankees fans: I'm offering a prediction that the team will collapse to the highest bidder; I understand that you would feel much more comfortable about things if I were to predict a collapse.
I see no reason not to make as much money off of my well-earned reputation in the prediction business as I can.
---
As to Soriano, perhaps he was unavailable for interviews after the game because he was busy tucking his shirt back in?
Harper sounds like a 6 yr old who needs a time-out.
Step one: Go to ask player about failure
Step two: Player is unavailable
Step three: Ask other player about failure AND being unavailable
Presto! Writer can then take victory lap for bothering the other player. The fact is that while there is absolutely zero reason for the writers to ask Jeter et al about Soriano's failing (it was his failing, not their's) they will do it and that probably does bother them a bit. I don't think it bothers them nearly as much as the self-important writers would like to believe but I'm sure it's a bit annoying.
It's an inconvenience. The writer has to run quotes about Soriano's performance that aren't straight from the source. The player has to answer questions about somebody else's performance. Is it a big deal? Of course not. But it's not ideal.
Ah, yes, the 'self-serving' media. Working crazy hours and under deadline pressure every time we cover a game. Expecting the professionals we cover... to act like professionals. All I'm suggesting: see it from the media's side, just a little. I feel the judgment is harsh. I'm not asking for anyone to change their mind, but consider the other guy's perspective.
All the writer has to do is say "Soriano declined to speak to reporters." Period. That's it. No interpretation necessary. God ####### forbid a player is simply frustrated by his performance and doesn't feel like rehashing it to a festering mob of scribblers.
Christ. This disgusts me. And I'm a Red Sox fan to boot, but this is really asinine.
You need quotes to help describe the key moment of the game. That's it. It's not about 'bothering' anyone. It's just a reality of the job. If there's no supporting quote for Soriano's blown save, the editor is going to be pissed.
Ok, but if the player is unnecessarily unhelpful to the reporters, criticize them for that if you think it is newsworthy - but it is ridiculous to then take it to the next level and try to make it into a complaint about accountability and being a bad teammate.
Furthermore, these guys often get killed for what they do say, with it easier for a guy to make a mistake if English isn't his first language.
It seems to me that game stories regularly feature non-insightful blather from players as space-filler. When a player has something interesting to say about a particular moment in the game, that's great. When a player says, "I didn't make my pitch, and I hate to let the boys down, but I'll go out and get 'em next time", that's no more useful to a good game story than if the player hadn't spoken to the media at all.
Maybe that's the justification for the article. Harper got reamed by his editor because Soriano wouldn't talk to him (never mind he didn't talk to anyone else).
There is no justification for it. Regardless whether you think Soriano should speak to the media after the game*, columns like this are never a good idea. It comes across, rightfully so, as whining about something the overwhelming majority of readers couldn't give a #### about.
"Oh, the poor guy who didn't pay to go the game and got fed free food throughout couldn't get a word with Rafael Soriano. The tragedy of it all."
* My take: It's mildly inconsiderate to your teammates to routinely bail from media obligations after a game where you (or the team) has performed poorly. Yes, no one really has an obligation to answer questions, but there are guys in the clubhouse who don't see it that way. And if you're making them face additional questions because you don't want to, repeatedly, that's not the most teammatey way to behave.
I don't disagree with any of this. That's why I'm not actively seeking a career in journalism. It's stressful and you are locked into rigid models of presenting information. You have to rely on stuff that, in different circumstances, would be totally inconsequential. If I had the cash, I'd launch a sports website that tackled beat reporting completely differently. Grantland is trying right now, but I'm not sure it's working. I think writing an entire article about this incident is a little over the top. A simple 'Soriano blew off the press,' at the end of the piece would have sufficed. But for as whacked out* as journalism admittedly is, it is part of the reality of being a professional athlete. Soriano ignored that reality last night, and had he succeeded, he would have accepted that reality. Accepting reality, no matter the outcome, is a sign of maturity. You see, the funny thing is, this piece is really about two people who got pissed off and didn't follow normal protocol. Because Harper is essentially riffing on Soriano blowing off the press. It's not a 'pure baseball' article at all.
*Because you can't be the one reporter who calls his editor and says, "Ya know what, I'm kind of tired of milling around the locker room for quotes. It's a waste most of the time." Bam. Fired.
The most ominous thing about that ninth inning last night was that it raised the possibility that the line drive off Soriano's pitching hand the in Sunday's game in Cleveland was more serious than it'd appeared at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------
You need quotes to help describe the key moment of the game.
If a writer or TV man can't describe the key moment of a game in far more eloquent words than the player, he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. 99 times out of 100 all you're going to get out of a player is a filibuster of meaningless cliches that you can cut and paste from a hundred free websites.
The Sox have not had their projected starting lineup together for a single game this year.
Obviously this is all Valentine's fault. I'm in favor of loading him into a spaceship and firing him off in the general direction of the sun.
I ______ my pitch. (missed/didn't make/overthrew).
He put a good ________ on it (swing/charge/spin)
Bobby Valentine is a ________ (dink/pocket dictator/history's greatest monster).
Done. Head home and the reporters have their pablum. Everyone's happy.
I'm not sure about this. Isn't it in the team rules somewhere? The same place that establishes the clubhouse as off-limits but the locker room as OK for reporters?
Regardless, if an organized group of players gave a longstanding cold shoulder to the local press, I think the manager would come down on them.
And as whacked out as professional athletes sometimes are, they are part of the reality of being a journalist. Harper ignored that reality last night, and had he succeeded in getting a meaningless and uninteresting quote, he would have accepted that reality.
And no, I don't care that Soriano makes a gazillion more dollars than Harper. Writing a hatchet piece like this is a much greater sin than failing to speak to reporters.
And finally, 99% of the time, I simply do not give a #### about quotes in game stories, and I really don't think many other people do either.
On an individual level? No. Players are under no obligations to answer questions.* Steve Carlton went a decade without speaking to the press and suffered no league consequences. (He later revealed, if Pat Jordan is to be believed, that he was doing us all a favor through his silence).
If a team decided en masse to stop talking to reporters (which i believe has happened), the FO or league will likely step in.
* Now teams may take a player who's gone quiet and try to talk him out of it. And if you're Willie Bloomquist, you're probably not afforded the opportunity. But if you're Steve Carlton good, you can clam up for as long as you can get guys out.
At least there was no Lupica column in the sports section.
Albert Belle wasn't talking, either, for much of his career. I remember, during my brief window as a credentialed columnist, walking into the Orioles' clubhouse and being surprised that Albert Belle was talking to teammates and staff like any other player, being a perfectly nice guy. From reports, you'd have figured that he sat silent in a corner, brooding menacingly.
Look, if Soriano was particularly nasty in blowing off the press, then I think it's fair to be critical, if Jeter or another teammate(s) had said "wow, this is ######## that Raffy won't answer those questions" again, fair enough. Otherwise, I find this to be whining of the highest order.
Peter Abraham does this in Boston. I swear he doesn't care what guys say but he goes out of his way to let us know when someone speaks or doesn't speak. It's pretty uninteresting stuff.
I get where Matt Waters is coming from on this. The writers are held accountable for this stuff to their editors and that sucks for them. That doesn't mean it's meaningful to the rest of us though.
The reason this makes no sense is that the word "accountability" is out of place here. Everyone could see that Soriano blew the save, so him standing up and saying "Yes, I blew the save" is of no moment.
What is he supposed to do, act like Dennis Rodman did when Rodman's wife found him in bed with another woman, and be like "Huh? There's no girl here in the bed with me. Your eyes are deceiving you."
"What are you talking about? I didn't blow the save; we won."
That's because Pete Abraham is a total no talent assclown. So glad he is covering the Red Sox now and not the Yankees.
"I chased Beckett's car down the street! Can you believe that?"
Answer questions from the press like a professional. It's part of his job.
I'm getting a tattoo that says this.
Yes, it is -- certainly implicitly and likely in the standard player contract. All you guys are doing is writing out of the baseball business the parts you don't like, but that isn't reality.(*)
The free publicity teams and players get from the NY Daily Newses of the world is an invaluable part of the business model of a major league baseball organization.
(*) In something of a whiny, footstomping way -- "My heroes don't have to do anything they don't want to do -- so there!!!!"
In fanboy fantasyland, yes. In the real world, no.
You forgot to end it with "Cliche ... Cliche ... Another cliche. Gotta go!"
Players are never the ones in the wrong here, it's always the blasted mainstream media.
The hostility is not for trying to get quotes, it's for writing hatchet jobs like this one in the face of a 'no comment.' This article on Soriano seems more mean-spirited than any scoffing at media complaints.
It's a mixture of fanboyism and the school of thought exalting "analysis" as the dominant form of baseball writing and coverage.
Neither is particularly appealing or persuasive.
Soaking up the adulation of the press when things go well, but fleeing when they don't is rather gutless.
same exact thing
Nope. Then the writer can't say something like, "When asked about the pitch to _________, Soriano refused to comment."(*)
(*) Or, "said 'no comment'".
Probably had to visit a sick friend in the hospital.
I came into a game and gave up an Astroturf-aided bloop triple to right field by Jim Gantner that cleared the bases and put Milwaukee ahead 7-4. I was asked a question after the game and said "If I come in and don't get the lefties out, it's a knife in the back to my team".
Be truthful, be honest - and publicly take ownership of your error as much as you want to take credit for the victory. Also realize that "sports journalism" is akin to the old George Carlin routine where he mentions "jumbo shrimp" and "military intelligence".
But, it's a competitive world, and like the company that made 20% gains this quarter last year, this year they have to make 10% more than that this quarter or else the sky will fall, the same goes for reporting. So sad. They need to provoke the reader more than the last time. It sucks.
EDIT: Incidentally, I remember that game. It made me, at the time, apocalyptically angry.
Which is why, as the Daily News noted, he's unprofessional. I'd add "gutless," but I can see why the Daily News wouldn't use that word.
A quote from a defeated Soriano that says "You're right; I blew the game" serves utterly no purpose, and is demanded by the media only as an attempt to bring the player to his knees before the morally superior media and fans, and acknowledge that he has a character flaw because he got beat by other players in the league.
And if he doesn't capitulate, he is attacked.
If you're a fan who needs such a quote from him after the game, you deserve pity, and you have mine.
People who don't care: Everyone else
It serves a lot of purpose. It adds color to a newspaper story about a major league baseball game and a well-written story about a major league baseball game has a lot of value to a lot of people. Just because you want to reduce Soriano's effort to "He pitched 1 inning and gave up 3 runs," and denude it of all context and color doesn't mean everybody else does. And, in fact, very few people do.
And if he doesn't capitulate, he is attacked.
Boo-#######-hoo.
People who care that a player didn't talk to the media: The media
People who don't care: Everyone else
I think you mean:
People who care about things I don't care about: Nobody.
People who care about things I care about: Everybody.
Obviously, I'm kidding, but I disagree with you. I don't find his talking to the media after failure gutless. He's a ballplayer, not a public speaker, and maybe he's afraid of saying something that will make his life more difficult. I'd rather he said nothing than some pre-fabbed canned statement fed to him by a PR expert. And a "no comment" is unnecessary, to me, for reasons Ray spelled out earlier.
With that, he would become my favorite player.
But he's a "public speaker" when things go well. It's not failing to speak to the press that makes him gutless; it's failing to speak to the press only when he ##### up.
That says more about your imagination than your talent. I haven’t played organized baseball in over 13 years, but I still haven’t given up the dream.
Yes, but not in the way you think.
This is about bringing the person to his knees. And weak-minded people feel better about themselves if a person is brought to his knees before them. The fact that the person's "crime" is that he didn't perform in a baseball game makes the behavior from these people all the more sad. They have elevated the importance of a baseball game in their life to an unhealthy, pathetic state. (At least, the fans have. The media figure is just being a jackass in order to make his column sound interesting because he's not talented enough to write about something better. And he gets the added benefit of seeming Important to pathetic fans.)
This is what the Red Sox collapse was about last September for a lot of people. Players were treated with scorn, because they were eating chicken wings or drinking beer on their off day. And they had the temerity - the unmitigated gall - to lose.
No, it's about getting a baseball player to provide a quote about a baseball game. The purpose of doing that is as stated in 72, above.
They have elevated the importance of a baseball game in their life to an unhealthy, pathetic state.
It's their job to write about baseball games; it pays their bills, feeds and educates their children, and keeps the engine of consumption purring.
Nor is writing about baseball games anything to apologize for; it's a perfectly decent and honorable pursuit with a long and commendable lineage. It's more likely that you are struggling with the issues of relative self-worth you're projecting onto them. Everything in your worldview seems to reduce to a fierce, practically twilight, struggle between the deserving and the undeserving -- certainly you insist that all social relations be deconstructed by that template.
And you have the inherent worth completely backward -- the man who can merely throw a baseball fast offers less than the man who can write stories people want to read, and far more closely approaches the state you've called unhealthy and pathetic.(*) It's not really even a close call.
(*) Reading and writing being far more lofty and noble pastimes and talents than throwing a ball and passively watching people throw a ball.
To the extent Soriano could expound on what pitches he was trying to throw and whether they hit the right location, etc., that might have been mildly interesting. (And even there, "I made good pitches and they just hit them" doesn't always fly - see Ian Kennedy.) But this wasn't about that. It was about "accountability." Literally standing in front of his locker and taking #### for pitching poorly.
Ray, I think the writers deserve some sympathy here. I think they're pressured from above to get the controversial comment.
From baseballalmanac - Reporter responses by Phillies pitcher Don Carman from 1990 that he posted on his locker:
1. I'm just glad to be here. I just want to help the club any way I can.
2. Baseball's a funny game.
3. I'd rather be lucky than good.
4. We're going to take the season one game at a time.
5. You're only as good as your last game (last at-bat).
6. This game has really changed.
7. If we stay healthy we should be right there.
8. It takes 24 (25) players.
9. We need two more players to take us over the top: Babe Ruth & Lou Gehrig.
10. We have a different hero every day.
11. We'll get 'em tomorrow.
12. This team seems ready to gel.
13. With a couple breaks, we win that game.
14. That All-Star voting is a joke.
15. The catcher and I were on the same wavelength.
16. I just went right at 'em.
17. I did my best and that's all I can do.
18. You just can't pitch behind.
19. That's the name of the game.
20. We've got to have fun.
21. I didn't have my good stuff, but I battled 'em.
22. Give the guy some credit; he hit a good pitch.
23. He, we were due to catch a break or two.
24. Yes.
25. No.
26. That's why they pay him _____ million dollars.
27. Even I could have hit that pitch.
28. I know you are but what am I?
29. I was getting my off-speed stuff over so they couldn't sit on the fastball.
30. I had my at 'em ball going today.
31. I had some great plays made behind me tonight.
32. I couldn't have done it without my teammates.
33. You saw it... write it.
34. I just wanted to go as hard as I could as long as I could.
35. I'm seeing the ball real good.
36. I hit that ball good.
37. I don't get paid to hit.
Well, it may not be logical out of context, but as others have stated, in general you will always do better in your job by crapping on the people below and doing what your boss wants than the other way around... no matter how stupid your boss is.
My wife, bless her heart, still has trouble with this one. After 10 years on the job since grad school, im just now figuring this out. Turns out asking questions in all hands meetings that make your CEO look stupid, is not a good promotion strategy, no matter how many people give you secret high faves afterwards.
Hilaripus.
Ray, I think the writers deserve some sympathy here. I think they're pressured from above to get the controversial comment.
Writer, pressured from above to ask dumb questions and then to write defamatory articles if they don't get answers, deserves our sympathy.
Player, pressured from above and from media and possibly from teammates to answer dumb questions chooses not to ... gutless.
Sure, makes perfect sense.
As to "professional" -- yes, it can generally be considered part of the modern pro athlete's job to speak to the media. That doesn't mean they have to speak to them every time, answer every question or go in front of the media when they're agitated in some way (pissed at themselves, pissed at the umpire, etc.).
If Soriano never speaks to the media, you could call that unprofessional. If Soriano sometimes chooses not to speak to the media, that's not unprofessional.
For a writer to pen a hatchet job about Soriano because he wasn't available to answer questions is unethical and therefore highly unprofessional.
But, ohhh, his mean editor made him do it. Fine, the editor is unethical and unprofessional. And the publisher. But hopefully it helped keep a few of those meagre ad dollars rolling in which makes it OK.
"Low and outside is my pitch, so that's what I swing at."
So while Soriano's disappearing act matters little to the people here, it does matter to the Yankee players.
AND:
http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf
From what I can tell, this is a fiction created by the media.
What has happened to Soriano here is a microcosm of what happened to the Red Sox after last year's collapse: They lost ballgames. So they were bad people.
As Bruce has interacted with players, and the media, and has for years, and is, well, a bit of a curmudgeon himself, I'm going to trust his reports on this one.
Agreed, but Jeter was already shown not to be such a leader, almost a decade ago when ARod joined the team.
Fair enough. If he's not such a leader, he shouldn't portrayed as such
I'm fine with it if the players want to hold Soriano accountable, or even if the fact that Soriano irks his fellow players by dodging the media becomes a story on its own. This story is not framed in those terms, its framed in terms of Soriano not allowing himself to be held accountable to the media. Soriano doesn't owe the media anything.
That said, I'm very sympathetic to the idea that the system creates this situation where if a player doesn't talk the writer almost has to call him out on it because otherwise he can't appease the men upstairs. I can feel bad for a guy, and still wish that he had the moral fortitude to stand up against a dumb system.
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