“They call Roger arrogant. That someone - and plenty of people are - would compare him getting his name on a plaque in a museum in Cooperstown to going to jail. That’s arrogance to me,” Waldman, the Yankees radio analyst, said. “Jail? Prison? Now that’s real life.”
...Her statement was made in the face of what Tuesday seemed to be overwhelming media reaction that yeah, Clemens was cleared of lying to a panel of congressional weasels, but yeah, he still did steroids. Not even a jury of his peers changed that perception.
Waldman had some choice words about commentators with that particular opinion. The only ones fit to print in a family newspaper are “self-important.” Yet there was also an undeniable media consensus that the next “jury” Clemens faces, Hall of Fame voters, is the panel most important to him. And that he will be crushed, his life will come tumbling down, if he is not enshrined in Cooperstown.
“You don’t think Roger Clemens is prepared for this? Waldman asked. “. . . You don’t think Roger knows some writers don’t like him for one reason or another? Roger Clemens is a lot of things but he’s not stupid.”
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1. rconn23 Posted: June 20, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4161928)Of course that's what old, bitter columinists and other assorted hacks hope happens. Once the fossils start dying off, retire are laid off etc. Clemens will rightfully be elected to the Hall of Fame IMO.
And they should build it near a ####### airport so I don't have to travel so damn far.
Wow, it's almost as if the writers have a lot to gain from the HOF and the BBWAA awards being considered very important things in the baseball world....
And set it up as part of the Red Sox Foundation.
That sounds great. We can have the excitement of the plaque room, leave out the lifelessness of the century-plus worth of memorabilia in the museum, and all coated with a rich Schaumburg sheen.
And they should build it near a ####### airport so I don't have to travel so damn far.
No kidding -- talk about a horrible place to reach via public transportation. I plugged a round trip from Boston to Cooperstown into Greyhound's website, and it's like taking a tour of every two-bit hamlet in upstate New York.
Going over: leaves Boston at 7:40 PM, arrives Cooperstown at 8:50 AM the next morning. Stops along the way at Worcester, Springfield, Albany and Utica, then a 5-3/4 hour layover from 2 AM to 7:45 AM, then change buses with upcoming stops at Herkimer, Mohawk, Richfield Springs, Schuyler Lake, and Fly Creek before arriving in Cooperstown.
Returning: leaves Cooperstown at 8:50 AM, arrives in Boston at 5:25 PM the same day. Stops at Hartwick Seminary, Milford Center, and Oneonta, then a layover of 1-3/4 hours from 9:25 AM to 11:10 AM, then change buses with upcoming stops at SUNY Cobleskill, Cobleskill, Schenectady, SUNY Albany, and Albany, then a layover of 25 minutes from 1:15 PM to 1:40 PM, then change buses with an upcoming stop in Worcester before arriving in Boston.
Seriously.
Not making this trip, sorry.
I hear they have these things called cars now.
There are even such newfangled concepts as carpools.
And I thought I lived in the past. Jesus!
And don't even get me started on the lack of livery stables & properly equipped stagecoach stations.
(Disclaimer: I haven't been to them since they opened at the Warehouse; I've only been to the Babe Ruth Birthplace.)
Not to mention the constant threat of Indian attacks ,smallpox, the grippe, bears, and British cavalry.
Seriously, it's worth the trip, even from Virginia.
Rent a car.
I hear that horseless carriages aren't nearly as reliable as one would hope.
All I can say is, I'm glad I went to the BBHoF years ago when I was able to drive there and back.
I'm not able to drive for medical reasons right now, and it has underscored that large areas even relatively close by are basically inaccessible without spending lots of time or lots of money to get there. What would have been a one-day trip with a rental car is basically a three-day round trip on Amtrak.
Unfortunately, I've never been even remotely near that part of the country, so of course Cooperstown has never been on my radar.
The Hall of Fame should be in Hoboken.
The Hall of Fame should be in Hoboken.
I'm still pissed that they haven't moved the Badlands and the Grand Canyon to Maryland, preferably somewhere near I-95.
That's why I suggested a carpool.
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I don't say that the remoteness of the location is better or worse. I kind of like it because you can make a pilgrimage out of it, but as with anything, it cuts both ways.
OTOH, I've been there three times, so it's worth a detour if you're passing through. I'll be in the lower Hudson Valley next week, a couple hours' drive from Cooperstown, so don't think I'm untempted – but I think it would be the end of a great relationship if I were suddenly to say to La Dernière "Hey, there's this interesting village with a Farm Museum just 120 miles thataway …"
They steam a good ham.
In about 10 years, when attendance is way down, the HoF is going to discreetly suggest to the BBWAA that they need to start electing bonds, Clemens, McGuire etc. I woul;d hope people would see this as being about business, but the writers will spin it as the guardians of baseball finally forgiving the transgressors.
The writers supposedly control awards and HoF election because they are so close to the game. They consider the steroid era a stain upon the game, and they did not notice when it was happening. If they had any integrity, shouldn't they give up the vote.
Sure. I don't think I would go to Cooperstown by myself anyway, so I'd either get my wife, brother, or a friend to drive (and I myself should be able to drive again in 6 months or so). But not being able to drive does make you more dependent on others in a way that can be very frustrating and illuminating (for example, I have a lot more empathy for my dad, who hasn't been able to drive for over a decade due to vision problems). Anyway, I was mainly responding to the "Oh my god some people don't drive" posts.
I have to be in Vermont for a weekend this summer, and I don't have anyone who can give me a ride, so I'm taking the train and then bicycling for the last 20 or so miles. Should be fun but the added travel time requires taking a day off from work.
(edited for clarity)
Isn't that how most marriages/relationships work, especially with people of an older generation? The man tends to be the one who drives, at least more often than not.
"Chin up! Even though you're NOT a convicted criminal, I still believe in you, man!"
Yeah, but would Clemens say that to Congress?
Well, there might soon be ample room in Ozone Park.
Yeah, thanks. Without going into too many details, I suffered a seizure earlier this year, and legally I'm not allowed to drive for 6-12 months afterwards (depending on the state). But I guess since riding a bike only puts my own safety at risk, and not that of others, I'm allowed to do so as long as I'm comfortable with it. Physically I'm in good shape (actually in training for my first marathon) and the doctors couldn't find anything wrong with me, so I guess I'll be running and cycling a lot for the next 6 months or so.
But you can probably see the aurora borealis in your kitchen.
I really need to start a reality TV show called "Car-less in America"
People always express some level of shock when they find out I'm in my mid-30s and have never learned to drive, which is usually followed by me expressing shock that it's some kind of shocking revelation. My parents didn't drive, my grandparents didn't drive, and I don't know about before that.
...of course as I've learned the last two years it's a lifestyle that's a bit more difficult in Lawrence, Kansas than it was in a city with a subway system...and yeah, if my wife didn't drive I'd have never moved out of my hometown.
Point being it might be fairly uncommon to run into someone who doesn't drive, but I've never thought it was extraordinarily uncommon.
It's the only way I'd be able to manage a return trip to the BBHoF. Should I decide to get into a carpool, I'll see what I can set up. Ray, can I contact you first, since you suggested it?
But I'm also beginning to think a boycott of the place (as suggested by Bob Tufts and others) because of BBWAA-writer voting stupidity wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Would car trips in which you guys ride (& I guess help with gas) without ever taking the wheel be feasible?
Gef, I'd be fine with such an arrangement.
...legally I'm not allowed to drive for 6-12 months afterwards (depending on the state). But I guess since riding a bike only puts my own safety at risk, and not that of others, I'm allowed to do so as long as I'm comfortable with it.
Glad to hear your condition is in theory temporary, Dave, and that you can manage a bike okay. Wish I were as lucky. Also, coke to you and Phil (#45) for the support on the "not driving" idea. The good thing is, there's more public transport out there then many realize.
Dave, I've traveled a respectable amount through Vermont car-less, and there are a good number of options for seeing a decent bit of the state without a car -- though not all of it, of course. If you contact me, I'd be happy to help you out with what I know, as I've researched this a good bit. Post a reply to this thread if you want to be in touch, unless it's possible for you to contact me through the website some way.
Cannot believe it took me this long to get to this thread.
Yes, Utica sucks, period. I speak from extensive experience. No debate required.
HOWEVER.
Even if you hate the lovely countryside in which Cooperstown resides, there are a few things in the area even the most urbane urban dweller would want to see and would help make the trip worthwhile. 1.) the Finger Lakes wine region. Tastings and tours to last you at least a week. 2.) Glimmerglass Opera.
Again, leaving out museums, antiquing, camping, and biking, if you can't make two out of three of the HOF, the wine, and Glimmerglass worthy of a four-to-seven-day bed-and-breakfast trip to the area, I don't know what to tell you. Other than you are simply too picky.
Someone please check on McCoy.
EDIT: Which is not meant as an implicit endorsement of the claim that it's unpleasant and expensive for a single person.
Hoboken is a bit of a pain to DRIVE to. On the other hand, you can take the PATH from Manhattan or Newark, and you can get a train there from most places in New Jersey. I can think of very few places that aren't a major city and are easier to get to than Hoboken.
Got to say, anyplace that inflicts Utica Club beer on the world certainly has one strike against it. Apparently there's no truth to the rumor that when a sample of this brew was taken to a chemist for analysis, the written reply was: "Dear sir. We regret to inform you that your horse has diabetes."
Another frequently repeated FYI: A majority of the Brooklyn Brewery beer is made in Utica at the same FX Matt's facility that brews Utica Club.
As the murderer Ross Martin told an inquisitive Peter Falk in Suitable For Framing, "I'm not your only option, you know."
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No, I really do think it's bizarre - indicative of a sickness if you will - when a person in American society under the age of 90 who is of sound mind and body has never learned to drive.
People might not like to drive (I like it, but whatever). They may not be very good at it, so don't want to drive. But to never have learned, no matter where one lives, is odd.
Much better!
The one place where it is less odd than anywhere else is for lifetime New York City dwellers. I know plenty of these who have never learned.
Please nobody respond to this.
I've never been, but the Boxing Hall of Fame is on the way to/from Cooperstown if you're coming from the West.
Huh. I find driving to be pleasurable, and the more expensive it gets, the more pleasurable the experience becomes. Thanks to outrageously expensive gas and plummeting wealth among American families, there are fewer people on the roads and much less traffic to deal with.
And yeah, unless you're a lifetime NYC resident, in which case it's understandable, not knowing how to drive is odd.
Or northwest, say, Toronto. Or the middle of lake Ontario.
Well I was thinking anyone coming down 90, but on reflection if you're coming from PA or westerly, it's probably smarter to take 17 when they split. But I grew up in Lake Ontario basically.
Also I really like the Saranac beers.
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