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Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Rangers manager Ron Washington on why he ‘fell in love’ with A.J. Pierzynski

As Aristotal Baseball points out…“No one loves the ballplayer whom he fears”

On if he’s every had a run-in with A.J. Pierzynski:

I’ve never had a run-in with him. The first time that I saw him, he was catching for the Minnesota Twins and I fell in love with him. … I like his attitude, I like the edge that he brings, I like the fact that he upsets the opposing team with the way that he goes about his business. But it’s all about one thing: winning ballgames. That’s what we’re about here in Texas, winning ballgames, and we brought in a guy that’s about winning ballgames.

On if Lance Berkman is ready to be the No. 3 hitter:

Without a doubt. He’s been handling those situations all his career. The thing is, we want to get him in here and make sure we get out of spring training with him healthy, and if we get out of spring training with him healthy and he can be in the middle of that lineup, he will definitely make a difference.

Repoz Posted: February 13, 2013 at 07:34 AM | 74 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers

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   1. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: February 13, 2013 at 08:18 AM (#4368539)
NTTAWWT.
   2. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 13, 2013 at 08:59 AM (#4368546)
Consenting adults and all, but that doesn't mean I want to read about it.
   3. villageidiom Posted: February 13, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4368566)
I think the only proper intro would have been, "It's incredibly hard."
   4. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 10:50 AM (#4368602)
Two huge a--holes. They deserve each other.
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:02 AM (#4368615)
How is Wash an a-hole? He may be a terribly incompetent manager, but he seems like a nice guy.
   6. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4368640)
How is Wash an a-hole? He may be a terribly incompetent manager, but he seems like a nice guy.
Never forget.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4368651)

Never forget.


I never knew in the first place (not surprising, since its insignificance couldn't possibly be greater). But forced to choose, I'd say that incident reflects more poorly on the sad little Angels than mean ol' Ron. YMMV.
   8. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4368663)
Sad little Angels? They didn't complain. They were asked about it after the game and said it was weird, something they'd never done after winning the division five of the previous six years, and sad for the opposing pitcher that had to sit through nonsense. As an Angels fan, however, I have no problem calling it bush league and totally unprofessional, and something only a real a--hole would do. Sounds like he'd make a great college basketball coach though.
   9. WillYoung Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4368666)
Poor wittle Torii Hunter, one of the biggest dicks in all of baseball, seemed to have been unhappy. I would chalk it up to a whole bunch of whogivesashit.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4368677)
Haren: "I was just wondering if this was something we had done before to them.

Hunter: "It doesn't matter if it bothers me or not," Angels outfielder Torii Hunter said

Sciosia: "You have some guys who thought it was maybe a little over the top"

Yeah, I'm sticking with sad little Angels. As non-issues go, that one was truly monumental.
   11. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4368682)
The most you get from the Angels there is along the lines of, "that was odd." I wouldn't say they're being "sad". Certainly not "little".

Shredder is the only person so far that has registered any significant objections to Washington pulling his players and letting the crowd give them an ovation.
   12. What Zupcic? Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4368686)
Even if you think that taking players off the field to get them a standing O for winning the division is unprofessional (LASTINGS MILLEDGE SHOULD HAVE NEVER GIVEN THOSE HIGH FIVES! *clutches pearls*) it's a pretty big leap to use that as proof that Ron Washington is generally a complete a-hole. Especially compared to AJ Pier-etc.
   13. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4368687)
I'm sure the Angels probably don't care. Two of those guys aren't even there anymore. If you want to say "poor little shredder", then hey, whatever makes you feel better, but that doesn't mean not entitled to my opinion that Ron Washington is an unprofessional a--hole, which means he'll mesh just fine with A.J., who is more of a professional a--hole.

And I'm not sure What Will's problem is with Hunter, other than he didn't re-sign with the Twins. He's always seemed to wear his heart on his sleeve I don't have much of a problem with his criticisms of the Angels front office this year, other than that he's misguided, but he has a right to feel slighted I guess.
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4368693)
Never forget.


No offense, but that is about the whiniest thing I have ever heard, not from Busch Stadium.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4368694)
Two of those guys aren't even there anymore. If you want to say "poor little shredder", then hey, whatever makes you feel better, but that doesn't mean not entitled to my opinion that Ron Washington is an unprofessional a--hole, which means he'll mesh just fine with A.J., who is more of a professional a--hole.


None of this makes me feel better, or worse.

You're obviously welcome to your opinion on Wash. I'd never try to deprive you of that. But I doubt that piece convinced many other people of his a-hole credentials, which seemed to be the point of linking to it and its 9-11 type tag.

   16. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4368696)
How is Torii Hunter an a-hole? He may have left the Twins in free agency, but he seems like a nice guy.
   17. Up2Drew Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4368698)
Jerry Manuel did the exact same thing on the last day of the 2000 White Sox season.
   18. Up2Drew Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4368703)
Torii Hunter almost decapitated White Sox catcher Jamie Burke in 2004. Burke was completely blind to the hit, leaning away from the plate, waiting for a throw from right field. It was one of the dirtiest plays I ever personally witnessed at the major league level.
   19. What Zupcic? Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4368710)
I think, were I a Twins fan, I might dislike Torrii Hunter not because he left the Twins but in the way that he did so. I'm not even a Twins fan but I still remember Hunter spending his last year on the team openly speculating on where he might go as a FA and why he would like to play in certain cities (this all while the Twins still had a somewhat realistic chance of making the playoffs) and it basically seemed like a middle finger to the org and its fans. I dunno about biggest a-hole in baseball (thats CLEARLY Josh Beckett) but certainly quite off-putting.
   20. flournoy Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4368727)
Ron Washington is an unprofessional a--hole, which means he'll mesh just fine with A.J., who is more of a professional a--hole.


It strikes me that an a--hole is probably even less likely to get along well with another a--hole than he is with a nice guy.
   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4368730)
My a-holes rankings would be something like this:

1. A.J. Pieryznski (pantheon HOF A-hole)
2. Brett Myers
3. Chris Perez
4. Carlos Zambrano
5. Francisco Rodriguez
6. Jose Valverde
7. Miguel Cabrera
8. Jonathan Papelbon (something about being a closer makes you a jerk?)
9. Chris Carpenter
10.Hanley Ramirez

I can see people putting Logan Morrison and Brian Wilson on that list and their schtick is wearing thin, but I still find them kinda quirky and funny. BUT FOR HOW LONG.
   22. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 13, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4368740)
How is Torii Hunter an a-hole? He may have left the Twins in free agency, but he seems like a nice guy.

He has this awful problem getting taken out of context.
   23. bread and rice Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:08 PM (#4368767)
How is Torii Hunter an a-hole? He may have left the Twins in free agency, but he seems like a nice guy.


well, I can refer to his words to clear up any confusion as to whether he is an a-hole

People see dark faces out there, and the perception is that they're African-American. They're not us. They're impostors. Even people I know come up and say: 'Hey, what color is Vladimir Guerrero? Is he a black player?' I say, 'Come on, he's Dominican. He's not black.' ... As African-American players, we have a theory that baseball can go get an imitator and pass them off as us. It's like they had to get some kind of dark faces, so they go to the Dominican or Venezuela because you can get them cheaper. It's like, 'Why should I get this kid from the South Side of Chicago and have Scott Boras represent him and pay him $5 million when you can get a Dominican guy for a bag of chips?' ... I'm telling you, it's sad


There's also that whole "doesn't want a gay teammate" thing

Hunter, among baseball's most thoughtful and intelligent players, isn't kidding when he says an "out" teammate could divide a team.

"For me, as a Christian … I will be uncomfortable because in all my teachings and all my learning, biblically, it's not right," he says. "It will be difficult and uncomfortable."
   24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:13 PM (#4368777)
Hunter may make my list now that I think about it. But he smiles so much! He's kinda likeable on the exterior at least.

Jered Weaver seems like kind of a jerk, but I think I may be projecting my ire towards his brother Jeff onto him.

Delmon Young and BJ Upton are also kinda jerky.
   25. bread and rice Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:20 PM (#4368783)
Delmon Young and BJ Upton are also kinda jerky.


I know that Delmon doesn't like the jews, but what did Bossman Junior ever do to be labled a jerk?
   26. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4368789)
Jered Weaver seems like kind of a jerk, but I think I may be projecting my ire towards his brother Jeff onto him.
Weaver actually seems like a good guy from what I've read. I think he came in with a bad reputation after the hold out, and he probably had the stink of Jeff on him. It probably didn't help that he got kicked out of his first ever minor league game, a game in which he didn't even pitch, but I thought the way he got kicked out was pretty funny.

He never really argued or made a big deal out of people discounting his ability. He just took the ball and pitched. He has a tendency to get a little emotional on the mound when a teammate makes an error or something, but he gets equally excited when they make a great play. Of course, taking the big home town discount makes him look pretty good to Angels fans.

Probably based on my irrational hatred of the Red Sox, but Pedroia and Youkilis always seemed pretty dickish to me, though for different reasons.
   27. Ron J2 Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4368801)
#21 Pierzetc falls well short of the Rogers Hornsby standard. But then if Hornsby is the standard for induction, you're going to have a mighty small hall.
   28. Spivey Posted: February 13, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4368823)
Sad little Angels? They didn't complain.

I'm sure the Angels probably don't care.

Well, Haren threw behind Treanor after it happened. I guess you can argue that it was an accident, but I find it unlikely. Either way, I find it hilarious that in an effort to point out the Rangers and Ron Washington as ########, if anything it looks like the other way around. Also, Scoscia is unequivocally a bigger ####### than Ron Washington.
   29. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4368824)

I know that Delmon doesn't like the jews, but what did Bossman Junior ever do to be labled a jerk?


He's a lollygagger. Probably not fair to lump him in with the jerks.

Youk also seems kinda dickish to me, but I can never put on my finger why.
   30. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4368837)
Also, Scoscia is unequivocally a bigger ####### than Ron Washington.
I'd much rather have a manager focused on sticking up for his team than showing up the other.
Well, Haren threw behind Treanor after it happened.
Treanor didn't deserve it, of course, but Kinsler had already been ceremoniously removed from the game, and it would have looked silly to throw at the dugout.
   31. Esoteric Posted: February 13, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4368843)
Youk also seems kinda dickish to me, but I can never put on my finger why.
1.) The face. World-class backpfeifengesicht.
2.) He IS a well-known red-ass, heckling opposing players, yelling in the dugout, etc.
   32. Esoteric Posted: February 13, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4368844)
I'd much rather have a manager focused on sticking up for his team than showing up the other.
Do you REALLY think that's what Washington was trying to do? Really now?

Of course you don't. Because you're a rational human being you know as well as the rest of us that all he wanted to do was give the home team an opportunity to cheer for its favorite starting lineup at the end of a season which had brought them to first place for the first time in a very long time. It would've happened if the Rangers had been playing the Royals or the Orioles. It had nothing to do with the Angels.
   33. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4368851)
Because you're a rational human being you know as well as the rest of us that all he wanted to do was give the home team an opportunity to cheer for its favorite starting lineup at the end of a season which had brought them to first place for the first time in a very long time.
While making the other team sit there and wait, which is dickish enough in itself. And this wasn't the first time the Rangers had done something pretty dickish against the Angels (see: Kinsler), so no, I don't know that. But that's beside the point. Regardless of he may have also done it in front of, it's a bush league thing to do that almost no other team in baseball ever does (except perhaps the Jerry Manuel White Sox, as noted above).
   34. WillYoung Posted: February 13, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4368898)
And I'm not sure What Will's problem is with Hunter, other than he didn't re-sign with the Twins. He's always seemed to wear his heart on his sleeve I don't have much of a problem with his criticisms of the Angels front office this year, other than that he's misguided, but he has a right to feel slighted I guess.


I had no problem with Hunter not re-signing with the Twins. He's just been exhibit 1 of "being a good quote" getting conflated with "being a good guy." While with the Twins, he attempted to punch a teammate in the face in the dugout (and missed the teammate and accidentally hit Nick Punto instead which, in actuality, is pretty awesome). He also shows off his "leadership" by constantly attempting to reassert his type A awesome toughness while calling others around him giant pussies. Basically if you actually parse his words, rather than just reading them the way they are always presented by the media (who love him because he's willing to talk), you will actually note that he always, always comes away either insulting someone or making himself out to be a martyr.

I think, were I a Twins fan, I might dislike Torrii Hunter not because he left the Twins but in the way that he did so. I'm not even a Twins fan but I still remember Hunter spending his last year on the team openly speculating on where he might go as a FA and why he would like to play in certain cities (this all while the Twins still had a somewhat realistic chance of making the playoffs) and it basically seemed like a middle finger to the org and its fans. I dunno about biggest a-hole in baseball (thats CLEARLY Josh Beckett) but certainly quite off-putting.


There was also that. I didn't really like him all that much, so I could care less that he was leaving, but the Torii Hunter Farewell Tour of 2007 was obnoxious ("I've always, ALWAYS wanted to be a Royal so I could play in the same hometown as the Negro Leagues Museum" followed by "Nobody is more knowledgeable than Yankee fans. They really know their stuff and I would love to play in front of them" followed by "Texas has always been my hometown team," etc. during every single roadtrip. All this, from a purported "team leader").

Oh, and I should also clarify that I have, from day one, absolutely LOVED A.J. Pierzynski - even with the White Sox - because he actually revels in his assholery rather than spending most of his time trying to hide it like Hunter.
   35. spycake Posted: February 13, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4368902)
And I'm not sure What Will's problem is with Hunter, other than he didn't re-sign with the Twins.

Part of it is that Hunter talks a lot without thinking (or caring), as others have pointed out, but the other part is that his media image as "clubhouse leader" really contrasted with his talking/instigating, particularly when the Twins weren't winning and/or his free agency was approaching.

For me, the "two-faced" dynamic basically neutralized my opinion of Hunter. But some prominent internet Twins fans, like Will, seem to have swung it to the other side of the spectrum, into strong Hunter dislike.
   36. vivaelpujols Posted: February 13, 2013 at 05:56 PM (#4369068)
No list of a-holes is complete without Johnny Cueto and Johnny Gomes. Especially Cueto. Dude's literally human garbage. I agree that Paplebon is an ####### because he takes 30 minutes between each pitch and as that stupid mouth stare. Also Ryan Theriot.
   37. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:24 PM (#4369100)
Weaver did have that little outburst against the Tigers (though to be fair Carlos Guillen was being a bit of an ####### too).

That was a pretty funny sequence of events. Guillen hits home run, openly taunts Weaver, which results in a non-fight incident. After several minutes of guys milling about on the field trying to look like they desperately want to fight without actually fighting the umps calm things down. Players return to dugouts, umpires deliver warnings. Normalcy appears to be restored.

Weaver throws his first pitch at Alex Avila's head and starts storming off the field in a rage before the ball even arrived at home plate. It's like he had the perfect amount of anger. Not so much that he couldn't stand calmly on the mound for a minute or two and give the impression that he was going to continue with the game, but not so little that he couldn't throw a ball at Avila's head.

Plus, if I recall correctly, he was up against Verlander that day, and at the time they were the top two contenders for Cy Young. A memorable game.
   38. phredbird Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4369106)
My a-holes rankings would be something like this:


hey come on, carp is retiring!
   39. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:33 PM (#4369109)
I'm trying to think of incidents in which my beloved team has been wronged or shown up by a rival, but coming up with nothing off the top of my head. Though I suppose this comes from not fielding a contending team in 15 years.

I do recall my dad being a little disapproving of Roberto Alomar's pimping his home run off of Eckersley in the 1992 ALCS. But,

A) Only mildly disapproving
B) Looking back on it now it's pretty reserved compared to what a hitter would normally do in that situation now
and
C) He did it for our team.

Maybe I need to have more trust in my own convictions, but I tend to give opposing teams the benefit of the doubt when it comes to possible instances of showing up the good guys. Love can sometimes make one over-defensive.
   40. Greg K Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4369113)
Ah, I've sort of quasi-got one.

Billy Koch showing up to a Jays game in Tampa to heckle the Jays after being cut from their spring training squad. That was pretty douchey...though I suppose not a rival team showing up the good guys as he was unemployed at the time.

I'm also suspecting it might just be a Jays thing. Because pretty much everything every Ottawa Senator player or fan has done in their lives has been for the purpose of disrespecting the honourable tradition of Toronto Maple Leaf hockey, so it's clearly a part of some professional sports teams' experience.
   41. Austin Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:44 PM (#4369117)
No list of a-holes is complete without Johnny Cueto and Johnny Gomes. Especially Cueto. Dude's literally human garbage.

I don't recall ever hearing this sentiment before. I certainly remember him being involved at the epicenter of that big Reds-Cardinals kerfuffle, but have there been any other incidents that corroborate your "human garbage" characterization?
   42. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:52 PM (#4369125)
Johnny Cueto is actually Oscar The Grouch. Have you ever seen them in the same room?!
   43. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: February 13, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4369127)
No list of a-holes is complete without Johnny Cueto and Johnny Gomes. Especially Cueto. Dude's literally human garbage.


Human garbage? Like poop? Or like a used kleenex or something? I seriously doubt a literal pile of poop could hold together long enough to not fall over or just collapse into a puddle or something, particularly in Cinncinnati in the summer. Plus they wouldn't really technically be human beings, just piles, and I'm pretty sure there are rules that inanimate objects can't play. Even an animate pile of poo that could move around and somehow grip a bat or throw a ball would be a stretch.

So basically I don't think you're correct on this.
   44. phredbird Posted: February 13, 2013 at 07:14 PM (#4369136)
shawon dunston over-celebrated when the giants beat the cards in the 02 nlcs, and probably would have been plunked, but he retired pretty soon after, iirc.
   45. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: February 13, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4369146)
No list of a-holes is complete without Johnny Cueto and Johnny Gomes.

I mainly know Gomes because of his 2012 with the A's... so of course I have no problem with the guy.
What's the deal there?
   46. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2013 at 07:27 PM (#4369147)
Plus, if I recall correctly, he was up against Verlander that day, and at the time they were the top two contenders for Cy Young. A memorable game.


He was going against Verlander, though what made it truly memorable was that Verlander had a no-hitter going and the Angels' Aybar tried to break it up with a bunt, leading to even more ballplayer bellyachin'.

hey come on, carp is retiring!


That's the only reason I can think why he wouldn't be No. 2 on RR's list.
   47. Shredder Posted: February 13, 2013 at 07:30 PM (#4369150)
Plus, if I recall correctly, he was up against Verlander that day, and at the time they were the top two contenders for Cy Young. A memorable game.
You also had Eric Aybar's bunt shouldvebeenasingle to break up Verlander's no hitter that day, which the official scorer, in a gift to Verlander, ruled a two base error. He scored before the Angels had a hit (fielder's choice), then Maicer Izturis delivered a clean hit as the Angels almost came back to tie the game.
   48. franoscar Posted: February 13, 2013 at 08:24 PM (#4369175)
I LOVE AJ. Although I can see why an Angels fan might not like him.

I love Carlos Z. too and of course Miggie. Why would anybody think these guys are ########? They are very talented athletes and they are people.
   49. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: February 13, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4369183)
No list of a-holes is complete without Johnny Cueto and Johnny Gomes.

I mainly know Gomes because of his 2012 with the A's... so of course I have no problem with the guy.
What's the deal there?


No deal at all, other than his (and Cueto's) involvement in a brawl three years ago that everyone has put behind them. Except for a small segment of Cardinals fans.
   50. phredbird Posted: February 13, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4369203)
hey come on, carp is retiring!


That's the only reason I can think why he wouldn't be No. 2 on RR's list.


actually, i wouldn't be surprised if he comes back to the cards in some coaching capacity, so maybe you could go ahead and put him back on. i'd probably be annoyed with him if he wasn't a cardinal, so i'm just going with fiery competitor!
   51. Jason Michael(s) Bourn Identity Crisis Posted: February 13, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4369217)
I'd happily add Chris Carpenter (nix that, I see it's in the original list) and Josh Beckett to my list of jerk ballplayers. Other notable jerks in my lifetime include Barry Bonds (duh), Julian Tavarez (sucker-punched Joey Gathright I believe in spring training), and Albert Belle. I remember hating Jeff Cirillo's guts as well. It always seemed like he was a red-ass along the lines of Youkilis, played hard, whined and yelled a lot - just not as ugly.
   52. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 13, 2013 at 10:46 PM (#4369244)


I love Carlos Z. too and of course Miggie. Why would anybody think these guys are ########?


Miggy seems likeable enough, but he has a pretty ugly domestic abuse incident to his record, right? Not to mention the DUIs and alcohol abuse.

i'd probably be annoyed with him if he wasn't a cardinal, so i'm just going with fiery competitor!


I agree, any of the "jerks" on my list would be "fiery competitors" if they played on my team.

The Yankees have surprisingly few jerks anymore. They're quite likeable aside from ARod. They need to sign a few a-holes.
   53. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4369268)
I do recall my dad being a little disapproving of Roberto Alomar's pimping his home run off of Eckersley in the 1992 ALCS.

Your dad must have missed the inning before, when Eckersley struck out Ed Sprague for the third out and launched into a screaming, fist-pumping "bang bang" Cactus Jack impression, complete with "ohhh, what NOW, bitch?" staredown off the field. If I'd been Alomar the following inning, I'd have moonwalked to first base.
   54. Walt Davis Posted: February 14, 2013 at 01:44 AM (#4369312)
I'm trying to think of incidents in which my beloved team has been wronged

Well, I've still got a grudge against Eric Show for hitting Dawson in the face. Given that was something like 25 years ago and Show died nearly 20 years ago, maybe I should let it go.

I still hate the 84 Padres for wronging the Cubs in the playoffs ... and the Mets are on the eternal despise list for 69 ... and the Cardinals for being the ####### Cardinals ... but I have to admit the Cubs have brought one or two of their problems on themselves.
   55. Honkie Kong Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:13 AM (#4369328)
I think the AJ as an ####### thing is overblown.
He was a part of that irritating Twins team, but there was no particular incident.
He lollygagged his way through 1 year in SF, and was "playing cards" instead of doing pitcher reports. Sounds bad.
But then Rickey also did that!

And there is the Angels' playoff incident and that baserunning incident.
Nothing really assholery about him. He seems like a typical jock, who normalized for the professional league, has a positive likeability score ( in part because of his interviews ).

Noone has mentioned Vecente Padilla yet or Ugueth Urbina? They should be near the top of the list!
And Sir Sidney!
   56. vivaelpujols Posted: February 14, 2013 at 07:05 AM (#4369332)
Cueto cleated someone in the face and ended his career! That's like Pete Rose status.
   57. vivaelpujols Posted: February 14, 2013 at 07:09 AM (#4369333)
So basically I don't think you're correct on this.


there's precedent for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDchw0tODM0
   58. SoSH U at work Posted: February 14, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4369392)
Cueto cleated someone in the face and ended his career! That's like Pete Rose status.


A man with such a sensitive noggin should have been nowhere near a brawl, had he really been worried about it. All Cueto's kick did was hasten what was a rapidly approaching end, as Mr. LaRue had gotten to the point where he was routinely suffering concussions on foul tips. The whole "My stars, he ended his career" line from Cards fans is the most overblown nonsense that came out of that sillliness.

   59. Barnaby Jones Posted: February 14, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4369393)
Cueto cleated someone in the face and ended his career! That's like Pete Rose status.


Cueto was rightly suspended for this, but he was shoved into and trapped up against the net/fence in a scuffle started by Carpenter, and then Larue was aggressively going after him. Larue only got kicked in the face because he WAS RUNNING DIRECTLY AT A PINNED CUETO. I think it's a bit much to act like he walked up behind an innocent victim and shivved him. And "ended his career" is a bit of an exaggeration, no? He was a 36 year old no hit backup catcher. It sucks that he got a concussion and post concussive symptoms, but his career was already over.
   60. SoSH U at work Posted: February 14, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4369422)
I think the AJ as an ####### thing is overblown.
He was a part of that irritating Twins team, but there was no particular incident.
He lollygagged his way through 1 year in SF, and was "playing cards" instead of doing pitcher reports. Sounds bad.


Now let me say up front that I love A.J. He's one of my favorite players. But this is selling him short. He was already pretty well disliked around the league when he was with the Twins. He had the whole nut-punch incident in SF. And he only solidified his rep while he was in CHicago (though I agree the Angels playoff thing and baserunning move is not a legit reason to think he's an #######).

Now, I think that much of his assholism is intentional, a ploy to get under his opponents' skin, rather than simply coming natural as it does with Carpenter. But make no mistake, he's an #######.

Or, as his eloquent former skipper, the esteemed Oswaldo J. Guillen once said about A.J.: "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less."


   61. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4369462)
A man with such a sensitive noggin should have been nowhere near a brawl, had he really been worried about it. All Cueto's kick did was hasten what was a rapidly approaching end, as Mr. LaRue had gotten to the point where he was routinely suffering concussions on foul tips. The whole "My stars, he ended his career" line from Cards fans is the most overblown nonsense that came out of that sillliness.


Yep. If LaRue didn't want to get hurt, he shouldn't have involved himself in a brawl. That's what happens in fights: People get hurt.
   62. Kurt Posted: February 14, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4369540)
No mention of Cole Hamels? I thought the consensus from the Bryce Harper thing was that it was pretty much in character for Hamels.
   63. WillYoung Posted: February 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4369545)
Now let me say up front that I love A.J. He's one of my favorite players. But this is selling him short. He was already pretty well disliked around the league when he was with the Twins. He had the whole nut-punch incident in SF. And he only solidified his rep while he was in CHicago (though I agree the Angels playoff thing and baserunning move is not a legit reason to think he's an #######).


An underrated Pierzysnki move that seems to be slowly getting lost to the history books was Game 1 of the 2002 ALDS. The A's blitz the Twins in the first inning and score three runs on two Twins errors (including one by AJ). Chavez scored the final run that inning from second base on a single. The throw to the plate was cutoff and Chavez had been signalled by his teammate that he could score standing up, so he turned to look over his shoulder at the play. Right when he crossed the plate, AJ "accidentally" walked across the plate and gave him a shoulder check knocking him off balance. Such a dick move.

Anyway, the following season, the A's made a big stink about getting revenge. In the first game, they play each other in 2003, Zito is cruising along having allowed just one hit through seven innings. In the eighth, he accidentally plunks AJ with a curveball (there was no way he was going to hit AJ as the tying run - especially with a curveball), but AJ absolutely yukked it up catching the ball in his arm pit and waving it at Zito while talking #### and walking to first base. He continued yelling at Zito from first base. Next at bat, pinch-hitter Bobby Kielty hooks a long flyball just foul. Next pitch, he homers and the Twins win 4-3. Just a masterful performance by Pierzynski.
   64. Jim Wisinski Posted: February 14, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4369651)
Gomes is quite happy to brawl in defense of his teammates. Think of that what you will but I don't recall him ever starting #### on his own.

Also, Jonny Gomes is awesome.
   65. vivaelpujols Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4369802)
Cueto was rightly suspended for this, but he was shoved into and trapped up against the net/fence in a scuffle started by Carpenter, and then Larue was aggressively going after him. Larue only got kicked in the face because he WAS RUNNING DIRECTLY AT A PINNED CUETO. I think it's a bit much to act like he walked up behind an innocent victim and shivved him. And "ended his career" is a bit of an exaggeration, no? He was a 36 year old no hit backup catcher. It sucks that he got a concussion and post concussive symptoms, but his career was already over.

Yep. If LaRue didn't want to get hurt, he shouldn't have involved himself in a brawl. That's what happens in fights: People get hurt.


Yeah except no one else got hurt in the brawl. Also kicking with cleats is clearly beyond the line of normal fighting etiquette. Punching, shoving, etc. have little potential for serious damage, cleating is crazy dangerous and is not nearly commensurate with the Cleto's position against the fence.

Also any danger that Cleto was in, he got there himself:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/8/12/1619545/the-brawl-and-who-did-what-in

And LaRue was also not anywhere near Cleto's face while he was being kicked.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2wgn_QZqHNk/TGRpKrGABrI/AAAAAAAAAEk/HJLMzI20boY/kicking.gif

It was a disgusting cowardly and reckless action, and yes it's the only time Cueto has done anything bad but it's enough to put him at the top of my ####### list in terms of baseball actions (Brett Myers, Cabrera, etc. are probably worse though).
   66. vivaelpujols Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4369804)
Gomes I don't really have a problem with. Although he generally seems like a d!ckhead, I think of him the same way as Carpenter where I'm fine if he's on my team.
   67. vivaelpujols Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4369809)
The whole "My stars, he ended his career" line from Cards fans is the most overblown nonsense that came out of that sillliness.


I'm sorry, it's factually correct that Cueto severly injured LaRue during a brawl in which no one else (especially Cueto) was even close to getting hurt. If this doesn't appeal to your backlash mindset on this matter, that's your problem.
   68. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4369824)
I've been assured that Gomes is a great guy - which is in keeping with his public reputation.
Now, Cueto...
   69. zonk Posted: February 14, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4369831)
Is Big Z an ####### or just crazy?

I tend to vacillate on that opinion... today, I think Zambrano is just crazy - but that could be a function of pitchers and catchers just now reporting and it having been 6 months since I've had the occasion to see or read about him doing something to put me back in the '####### column'.

By mid-March, I'll more than likely go back to thinking he's an #######... but just crazy for today.

   70. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 14, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4369847)
By mid-March, he'll be a Brother Elephant or some such thing.
   71. phredbird Posted: February 14, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4369866)
if i can argue in true bbtf fashion, it may be that larue should not have got involved in the fight, but that doesn't mean cueto isn't a monumental a-hole who should not have been kicking with his cleats. besides, he's managed by a monumental a-hole, so some of that a-hole stink clings to him too.
   72. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: February 14, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4369955)
May 21 Minn vs Oak 2003

Anyway, the following season, the A's made a big stink about getting revenge. In the first game, they play each other in 2003, Zito is cruising along having allowed just one hit through seven innings. In the eighth, he accidentally plunks AJ with a curveball (there was no way he was going to hit AJ as the tying run - especially with a curveball), but AJ absolutely yukked it up catching the ball in his arm pit and waving it at Zito while talking #### and walking to first base. He continued yelling at Zito from first base. Next at bat, pinch-hitter Bobby Kielty hooks a long flyball just foul. Next pitch, he homers and the Twins win 4-3. Just a masterful performance by Pierzynski.



Was it this game?

Also Pierzynski is a flaming a-hole who I hope gets suspended for PED's someday.
   73. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: February 14, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4369958)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200305270.shtml

Probably this one cause Minnesota ##### slapped them that year.
   74. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 14, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4369964)
Also Pierzynski is a flaming a-hole who I hope gets suspended for PED's someday.


I love AJ. I loved cheering for his a-hole self when he was a Twin and I love booing him now. The game needs characters and villains and he is both.

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