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Saturday, April 21, 2012

Red Sox ‘closing in’ on trade for Marlon Byrd

Marlon: Mutiny on the Suffolk County.

The Red Sox are “closing in on” a deal for Cubs center fielder Marlon Byrd, reports Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.

It’s no secret the Red Sox are seeking some outfield help in the aftermath of Jacoby Ellsbury’s dislocated shoulder—not to mention Carl Crawford’s recovery from offseason wrist surgery. Thus, Marlon Byrd of the Cubs, being in the last year of his contract on a rebuilding team, makes perfect sense.

Byrd, 34, is off to a horrifying start to the 2012 season, as he’s hitting just .070/.149/.070. That’s three singles in 43 at-bats with three walks. Last season, Byrd hit .276/.324/.395 with nine homers, 35 RBI and 51 runs in 119 games. He missed time following getting hit in the face with a pitch in Fenway Park—which appears close to being his new home.

Repoz Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:05 PM | 69 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, red sox

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   1. Dan Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4112191)
Solid upgrade over the likes of playing people like Repko, McDonald, and Ross in CF while Ellsbury is hurt.
   2. Chip Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4112194)
Assuming he's not toast after getting hit in the face.
   3. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4112195)
Is Byrd really an upgrade from Repko?

This is really one of the awful things about the last few years of Red Sox personnel decisions. They're spending a ton of money, but so much of it is locked up in players delivering no value that they are cheaping out on everything else. Lackey, Matsuzaka, and Crawford are making, what, $45 million combined, and can't get on the field. And I'm not sure that if they did get on the field, that it would be a good thing!

As a die-hard Sox fan, let's see what we have for through June, see if the pitching gets it together, see if Ellsbury is coming back, see if Crawford or Matsuzaka are going to be any good upon their return.

If the Sox aren't going anywhere, let's not pretend they are, at that point.

Let Lavarnway play every day at catcher.

If Iglasias is hitting a little bit in Pawtucket, let him play SS for Boston after the AS break.

Middlebrooks is hitting .377 with 6 HRs in his first 15 games at AAA this year. If he keeps hitting, let's put him at 3B later this year, and see if Youkilis can be a bat for a contender.

The pitching is a little different. Lester, Buchholz, Doubront, and Bard, you just got to let them pitch through it all.

I think the stench of 2011 is so strong for most Red Sox fans that we are cool with making 2012 a season where we end the mirage that we are still in the midst of the 2003-to-the-present run of greatness.
   4. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4112197)
I assume the Cubs will want to pick up the full salary and maximize the return in talent. I don't really know what the going rate for a Marlon Byrd is, but I'd assume it's low.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4112199)
I don't understand post #3 at all. Even if you've given up on the season after two weeks - which, ugh - how does trading (presumedly) marginal talent for Marlon Byrd hurt the Red Sox for the future?
   6. Spivey Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4112200)
Re #4: I'd imagine a B- prospect, roughly depending on the salary picked up.
   7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4112202)
Is Byrd really an upgrade from Repko?
Repko projects as replacement level. Byrd projects about league average.
   8. Swedish Chef Posted: April 21, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4112204)
Going by previous negotiations between the Cubs and Red Sox the deal is expected to be finalized in November.
   9. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4112210)
I suggested this in a game chatter last week when everyone was complaining about Repko. For what it's worth, Byrd has looked absolutely horrible at the plate since returning from the DL last year.
   10. SteveM. Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4112216)
Great trade-who did the Cubs get? Byrd looks done. We will gladly toss in a Soriano for nothing.
   11. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4112228)
Michael Bowden?
   12. Textbook Editor Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4112248)
Michael Bowden?


Pass.

Really, if Marlon Byrd is the answer, you're in a whole lot of ####.
   13. Dan Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4112250)
The Red Sox have 3 OFers on the DL; trading for OF depth is a good move and not a sign that they're completely ######. How many teams can lose their starting LF, CF, and one of their top RF options for the first month or two of the season and not have a bad outfield?
   14. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4112253)
Really, if Marlon Byrd is the answer, you're in a whole lot of ####.
Well, they're running Jason Repko out there. I'd say that constitutes "in a whole lot of ####."
   15. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 21, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4112254)
2012 Projections:
Byrd: 243/299/364
Repko: 218/274/319

I mean, gross on both, but unless Byrd's defense is much better, how much does he really improve the team over a 2 month period? Assuming he's not toast already, maybe a couple runs?

Actually, a couple runs might actually be worth it, assuming the prospect isn't someone I like. Given how crappy they've been, they may need every tiny advantage they can get.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4112264)
Wrong projection -- that's Byrd's current "end of season" projection (i.e. a 3-43 start is hard to overcome). His "rest of season" projection is 260/313/392 (in Wrigley); Repko is 223/281/328. That's 100 points of OPS or, over the course of a season, about 15-20 runs in hitting (based on some similar line totals from last year).

But, yeah, the pitch in the face and/or the mysteries of age may mean Byrd is toast.

There's always Aaron Rowand. :-)
   17. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4112268)
In the last four days the Sox have pinch hit for Repko with Nick Punto and Nate Spears. If those guys are pinch hitting for you you have to be Garry Maddox in center field to justify a spot on an MLB roster.
   18. Hack Wilson Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4112270)
When Dallas Green left the Phillies for the Cubs he got the Phillies in a trade involving Bowa and Iván de Jesus to include a minor leaguer, that Green thought higher of than the then Philly organization (apparently based on a scouting report that he wasn't a very good shortstop). Turned out pretty well for the Cubs (well not the Bowa part). I wonder if Theo can do the same.
   19. Dan Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4112271)
Yeah, Theo is going to get a future HoFer in return for Marlon Byrd.
   20. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4112277)
Whoops - I always forget what those "R" and "U" things are on the fangraphs projections are.

I still have irrationally high hopes for JC Linares, so I'd prefer to see him over Marlon Byrd, but I'm coming around on the idea. Repko can't keep happening.
   21. BWV 1129 Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4112283)
I think Vernon Wells is a much better fit for Fenway than Marlon Byrd is.
   22. Dale Sams Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4112286)
SOx have 2 OFers on the DL, and if you're going to trade for a 34 year old...just stick Daniel Nava out there and be done with it.
   23. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 21, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4112304)
21...quiet you.
   24. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 21, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4112348)
On second though, if the Angels want to pay 75% of his salary for the remainder of his deal, bring him.

How about 50%?
   25. tfbg9 Posted: April 21, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4112415)
Westmorland might have been getting his big chance right now, at 22.
He's lucky to be counted among living I suppose, but still. Damn.

   26. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 21, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4112424)
For Bowden, according to Robo on Fox. Cannot complain about that price.
   27. SteveF Posted: April 21, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4112437)
Looks like Cubs are picking up almost all the money owed Byrd, but no specifics as of yet.
   28. Brian C Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4112545)
From a Cubs perspective, Bowden's not a bad return for Byrd. Byrd's close to a half-season now of total suck at the plate, he's only adequate in CF these days, and has no future beyond 2012 with the Cubs no matter what he does the rest of this year. If nothing else, Bowden looks like he had a decent year in relief for Pawtucket in 2011 and is a plausible bullpen candidate for them right now. I know he was DFA'd already, but still. Better than Cesar Izturis, you know?
   29. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4112579)
Geez, it looks like the Cubs and Red Sox have to drag everything out.

It is Byrd and cash for Bowden and PTBNL. The Cubs are eating almost the entirety of the contract.

Who knows, perhaps by the end of July the Cubs will be spending more money to not have players on their team than they will be spending to have players on their team.
   30. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4112634)
So who are the Cubs going to run out there in Byrd's place now?
   31. Brian C Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4112643)
Mather got the start today.
   32. BWV 1129 Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4112662)
I think Vernon Wells would be a much better fit for Wrigley than Marlon Byrd was.
   33. SteveM. Posted: April 21, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4112664)
So who are the Cubs going to run out there in Byrd's place now?


A statue would have more range. The Cubs pitching was not helped by having both Soriano and Byrd in the same outfield.
   34. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 21, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4112673)
"Marlin Byrd just told the pilot to turn around."
-SOSH poster
   35. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 21, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4112679)
The Cubs have Tony Campana, Reed Johnson, Joe Mather, and David DeJesus on the 25 man roster.

I can't wait until the Cubs send up a Campana in left, Johnson in center, and Mather in right lineup. Throw in DeWitt and at second, Baker at first, and Stewart at third at would be just like Don Baylor is managing all over again.
   36. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Fielder Posted: April 21, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4112703)
Hope Byrd can pitch.
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 21, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4112740)
If Iglasias is hitting a little bit in Pawtucket...


Don't worry. He isn't, and won't.

.220/.310/.220 so far, following his .235/.285/.269 at AAA last year.
   38. DKDC Posted: April 21, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4112747)
AP: Keith Hernandez "closing in" on endorsement deal for Coin Galleries of Southern Newark.
   39. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 21, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4112760)
Don't worry. He isn't, and won't.

.220/.310/.220 so far, following his .235/.285/.269 at AAA last year.


Why does anybody think this guy is a major league player?
   40. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 21, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4112763)
Don't worry. He isn't, and won't.

.220/.310/.220 so far, following his .235/.285/.269 at AAA last year.

That's better than Marlon Byrd!
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 21, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4112764)
That's better than Marlon Byrd!

C'mon now, the NL is at least AAAA.
   42. SteveM. Posted: April 21, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4112778)

C'mon now, the NL is at least AAAA.


Yes, the AL proved its superiority in the last two World Series,
   43. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 21, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4112789)
Why does anybody think this guy is a major league player?


Gold Glove caliber defense at a premium defensive position.

I don't think anyone meaningful thinks he's ready yet. The bar for him offensively is low because of his great defense but he has limboed under that particular bar pretty well since coming to the States. Frankly that .220/.310/.220 line is somewhat hopeful. If he can learn to draw the occasional walk then I think he's got a decent shot. If he hits .230-.240 in the current environment I think he can be an MLB regular. Not a star but certainly an acceptable starter.
   44. MM1f Posted: April 22, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4112795)
I can't wait until the Cubs send up a Campana in left, Johnson in center, and Mather in right lineup. Throw in DeWitt and at second, Baker at first, and Stewart at third at would be just like Don Baylor is managing all over again.


Ok, but Tony Campana is awesome.

Seriously, I would LOVE Tony Campana to have an everyday player. Such a neat player and such a neat story.
   45. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM (#4112797)
Seriously, I would LOVE Tony Campana to have an everyday player. Such a neat player and such a neat story.


And really, why NOT make him one on this incarnation of the Cubs?
   46. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4112802)
Why does anybody think this guy is a major league player?


The line of thinking on him is that he'll learn to hit in the majors, like Ozzie. That's what the scouts seem to think. He'll never be a great hitter, but he might slowly accumulate value with the bat enough to be decent, if he can stick with the glove. There are a lot of ifs with Iglesias.
   47. Boxkutter Posted: April 22, 2012 at 02:12 AM (#4112829)
Iglesias' upside right now is Rey Ordonez (maybe even a chance for that Age 34 season Rey-Rey had).
   48. Walt Davis Posted: April 22, 2012 at 03:44 AM (#4112846)
It is Byrd and cash for Bowden and PTBNL.

Probably one of those semi-official "if Byrd plays decently, the Cubs get a decent PTBNL; if he sucks, they'll get a nobody or cash."

Byrd's eventual replacement is Brett Jackson 242/342/484 at AAA so far after 297/388/551 in 215 AAA AB last year. I know minor-league walk rates don't always hold up but his career line is 100 in ISOobp and 200 ISOslg. Looking more and more like a BJ Upton clone. Anyway question is whether they'll keep him down until no super-2 or let the clock start now. I say let the Joe Mather era begin!!

By the way, Rizzo still kicking along at 367/406/733.
   49. TerpNats Posted: April 22, 2012 at 08:20 AM (#4112881)
Rick Ankiel's play of late has made me glad the Nats didn't acquire Byrd to fill their center field void...even though, from Marlon's perspective, his car would be far safer at Nationals Park than at RFK.
   50. Darren Posted: April 22, 2012 at 09:22 AM (#4112889)
Probably one of those semi-official "if Byrd plays decently, the Cubs get a decent PTBNL; if he sucks, they'll get a nobody or cash."



That sounds like a really great idea for a Cubs/Red Sox trade. Leave it open-ended and figure out the details later--it's foolproof!
   51. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 22, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4112899)
1. Bullpen doesn't work.
2. Trade a useful arm for a washed-up OF.
3. ?????
4. Profit!
   52. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 22, 2012 at 09:53 AM (#4112901)
Well, it appears Theo has taught them well.

1. Sign no free agents.
2. Slash payroll
3. ????
4. Winning team!
   53. karlmagnus Posted: April 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4112931)
This is typical of Sox management since 2002. Yet again they have brought in a truly mediocre veteran and blocked their own youngsters, some of whom by the law of averages must pan out. What's more they've lost Bowden, whop was a perfectly acceptable reliever and is likely to grow if given space to do so. They have Middlebrooks to pay 3b (get rid of Youkilis for some pitching) Lars Anderson to play OF, Lavarnway to play catcher/outfield and Iglesias to play ss. They also had Jed Lowrie and Josh Reddick before they gave them away. Championships develop their own talent and add superstars when they can afford them; they do not trade talent for mediocrity.
   54. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4112941)
This is typical of Sox management since 2002.


The 2002-2012 period has been one of the worst ones in Red Sox history.
   55. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 22, 2012 at 11:45 AM (#4112947)
Yet again they have brought in a truly mediocre veteran and blocked their own youngsters, some of whom by the law of averages must pan out

So because they have two or three young crappy options one of them must pan out?
   56. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4112955)
Here's a bet: Marlon Byrd will have more BB-REF WAR than Michael Bowden this year. Any takers?
   57. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4112997)
The line of thinking on him is that he'll learn to hit in the majors, like Ozzie. That's what the scouts seem to think. He'll never be a great hitter, but he might slowly accumulate value with the bat enough to be decent, if he can stick with the glove. There are a lot of ifs with Iglesias.

How many guys learn to hit in MLB?
   58. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4113004)
How many guys learn to hit in MLB?


All glove, no hit guys who stick. There aren't many of those.
   59. Brian C Posted: April 22, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4113058)
What's Bowden's deal with the Sox? As terrible as their bullpen is, why didn't he get more of a shot this year before being DFA'd and dealt?
   60. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 22, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4113062)
BBREF doesn't have 2012 WAR calculated yet, but I've got to believe Byrd is at ~-1.0 or so this year. That's a lot to make up. Bowden could easily win by default.
   61. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4113063)
How many guys learn to hit in MLB?


Ozzie Smith kinda did, but I don't think he was as bad.
   62. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4113072)
Ozzie Smith kinda did, but I don't think he was as bad.
FWIW, ZiPS has Iglasias at .251/.289/.311 (OPS+ 59) for this season at age 22. Ozzie's first MLB year was .258/.311/.312 (OPS+ 82) at age 23. Although he was truly dreadful the next year (.522 OPS, OPS+ 48) and wasn't as good as his first year again until he was 27.
   63. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4113080)
Byrd, 34, is off to a horrifying start to the 2012 season, as he’s hitting just .070/.149/.070.


He was also .182/.256/.286 last September. Could be ugly, but presumably the Red Sox scouted him enough to have some idea of whether he's toast, and are not merely assuming he'll eventually meet his projections. Still, he can't pitch . . .
   64. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4113084)
BBREF doesn't have 2012 WAR calculated yet, but I've got to believe Byrd is at ~-1.0 or so this year. That's a lot to make up. Bowden could easily win by default.


That's probably why they don't bother to calculate it this early. A 97 ERA+ is about what Bowden projects this year. That's below average for a reliever and last year was worth about 0.3 BB-Ref WAR. Byrd won't be a full-time player in Boston for the whole year, most likely, but I think he could beat 0.3 WAR. He's projected to be about league average. That's about a 2 WAR player. Even prorated for a portion of the season, he's likely to come out ahead of Bowden.

That bet was really meant for karlmagnus because I think he's just doing his schtick and doesn't really mean any of the things he says anymore. Or if he does, he's a fool and you know what they say about fools and their money.
   65. karlmagnus Posted: April 22, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4113170)
That's why we fools don't gamble. Fools, but not stupid. But why do we think Byrd is enough better than Lars/Lavarnway to be worth giving up Bowden for? (Bowden incidentally I think has a decent chance of becoming pretty useful.)
   66. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 22, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4113204)
Neither Lars nor Lavarnway is likely to be a particularly good centerfielder.. Just my opinion though.
   67. Walt Davis Posted: April 22, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4113209)
Re: Iglesias -- I don't know if he'll make it but you don't have to hit very much to make it in MLB as an all-glove SS. Adam Everett was a 66 OPS+ for his career. The other Ozzie had a 68. Currently looks like you need to get up to about a 75 OPS+ to secure a starting job. Alcides Escobar managed 2 WAR (1.2 oWAR due to some decent baserunning, etc.) last year on a 74 OPS+.
   68. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 22, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4113257)
Re: Iglesias -- I don't know if he'll make it but you don't have to hit very much to make it in MLB as an all-glove SS. Adam Everett was a 66 OPS+ for his career. The other Ozzie had a 68.

Yeah, but those guys were all-time great glovemen at their peak. You don't project anybody to be a +20 fielder until you see it for a few years.
   69. Walt Davis Posted: April 23, 2012 at 02:40 AM (#4113475)
You don't project anybody to be a +20 fielder until you see it for a few years.

Sure but you're not gonna see it for a few years if you don't give the guy at least 400-500 PA a year for a few years. Guillen was a full-time SS at 21 and, through age 25, he had a 68 OPS+. He went on to start for another 8 years (70 OPS+). I'm not suggesting Iglesias will field well enough to hold down a job or hit even for a 68 OPS+ because I don't have a clue. I'm just saying you don't have to hit much if you've got the glove.

Brendan Ryan has had a 78 OPS+ the last 3 years ... and 7.3 WAR in 1400 PA; Jack Wilson has had 4 WAR in 850 PA with a 69 OPS+. Nick Punto has been solidly above-average over the last 3 years. But Aviles has been replacement level.

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