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Monday, October 29, 2018

Red Sox homer their way past Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers for World Series title – Orange County Register

Just listened to Bill Plunkett on with the Mad Dog. Dodgers fans are lucky neither of these two guys are running the Dodgers.

My favorite part of the interview was Russo asking, “Will the Dodgers, upstairs in their front office, will they recalculate a little bit, realizing that this interchangeable two-team match-up approach may not necessarily be the best way to go if you want to win the whole thing? Will this loss make them look at that?”

Plunkett replied, “I doubt it. I’ll put this gently. There is a certain arrogance about that front office. They do believe that they have, that they know more than anyone else, just by a hair. They don’t lord it over them or anything, but they think they have figured out the right way to go about this, and I don’t think they are going to deviate from it. I honestly don’t. I think they’ll look at this year and they will say, ‘Ya, know, we almost did it again, even though we lost our best player, one of our two best players, Cory Seager for the year in May. Even though we started the season without Justin Turner, our other best player, for the first forty games. Overcame injuries that had the entire starting rotation on the DL at one point. Ah, ya know, put things together and overcome other stuff along the way.’ I think they will look at it that way and say the plan is not the problem. That it just didn’t work out this year for those other reasons.”

“Yeah, that’s a stupid approach,” was just the beginning of Russo’s response where he also suggested a 22-YO front-office employee, who rides his bicycle to the park without socks, was responsible for Kiki batting third, which was another of the Mad Dog bones that he couldn’t let go.

Honestly, the conversation made my head hurt.

Jim Furtado Posted: October 29, 2018 at 01:45 PM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, red sox, world series

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   1. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 29, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5779040)
They do believe that they have, that they know more than anyone else


They've made two consecutive World Series, that's pretty good evidence that they may be right in that theory.
   2. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 29, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5779051)
My favorite part was comparing the percentage of Red Sox fans in Dodger Stadium with the percentage of Packers fans in the Coliseum. It seemed to be about a draw.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 29, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5779061)
I think they’ll look at this year and they will say, ‘Ya, know, we almost did it again, even though we lost our best player, one of our two best players, Cory Seager for the year in May. Even though we started the season without Justin Turner, our other best player, for the first forty games. Overcame injuries that had the entire starting rotation on the DL at one point. Ah, ya know, put things together and overcome other stuff along the way.’ I think they will look at it that way and say the plan is not the problem. That it just didn’t work out this year for those other reasons.”
Yeah, what idiots, amirite?
   4. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 29, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5779067)

The Dodgers were also pretty "unlucky" during the regular season vs. their Pythagorean record, such that every game counted down the stretch and they needed a one-game playoff to win the division. If this team wins 101 games during the regular season like they "should have", they probably go into the postseason much better rested.

Would that have made the difference against the Red Sox? Highly doubtful. But it's worth noting.
   5. SandyRiver Posted: October 29, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5779081)
I almost wish they had that 101 wins, so had the Sox won against that team, the win would've meant beating 3 teams with 100+.
   6. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 29, 2018 at 08:24 PM (#5779277)
Looks around..doesn't see any other teams making 2 consecutive Series or winning 6 division titles in a row...agrees with Dodger FO that they may be a little smarter then most of the other teams.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: October 29, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5779280)

Looks around..doesn't see any other teams making 2 consecutive Series or winning 6 division titles in a row...agrees with Dodger FO that they may be a little smarter then most of the other teams.


They're so good, they managed to win division titles before they got there.
   8. J. Sosa Posted: October 30, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5779674)
Not to side with Russo, but a perceived lack of accountability seems to a reccurring theme as a criticism. Some of Roberts’ old buddies have not so subtlety been implying a lot of the calls he made were under orders. If it is true you’ve got a guy going out there taking heat for not pitching someone he was told by the upstairs people he was forbidden to use, that’s a pretty shitty thing to do, and the accusation is that people making those decisions should be accountable.

Whether those decisions are right or not, hanging the middle manager out to dry is never a good look even though it is often part of the job description. I can understand how that rankles lifers.

I don’t really have a strong opinion myself other than to say, yeah, the arrogance thing rings true a bit, but they are good at what they do, but on the other hand they have a gozillion dollars and Brian F Sabean won three World Series. A little humility on reinventing the wheel might well be in order.
   9. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 30, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5779677)
They've made two consecutive World Series, that's pretty good evidence that they may be right in that theory.


But they lost both. Pretty clear evidence they don't know what they're doing.
   10. J. Sosa Posted: October 30, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5779681)
Dayton F Moore made two in a row with Kansas F City. Again, just a smidge of humilty from the analytics uber alles crowd might be in order from time to time. Even if Russo might *cough* leave something to be desired as the messenger.
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: October 30, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5779692)
I don't follow news about the Dodgers' front office. What are some examples of their arrogance? Or their lack of accountability?
   12. J. Sosa Posted: October 30, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5779744)
Millar and others of that ilk have been implying a good bit of the stuff Roberts was taking fire for were not his decisions. If that is true, if the front office really did script scenarios or tell Roberts that Buehler, Baez etc were not available, it would probably be a nice gesture to put a name on those decisions or at the very least acknowledge Roberts was in a tough spot.

I can understand not owning up during the Series for tactical reasons, but as long as it doesn’t impugn the perceived manhood of Buehler, etc, I don’t see the harm in doing so now.

That aside, keeping a document which placed a numerical value on the relative known criminality of various employees might charitably be viewed as arrogant. Or stupid. Reckless? Irresponsible? Felonious? I would probably go with all of the above.
   13. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 30, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5779800)
That aside, keeping a document which placed a numerical value on the relative known criminality of various employees might charitably be viewed as arrogant. Or stupid. Reckless? Irresponsible? Felonious? I would probably go with all of the above.


What is this about? I feel like I'm missing something.

As for the general issue at hand I don't follow the Dodgers particularly closely but I don't see any meaningful arrogance there. I'm sure there is some but as noted, they have a lot of success to back it up. Back to back World Series appearances is really really really good. I know Roberts got some grief this series but really the one thing he did that I found perplexing was the amount he used Madson who basically threw BP. Like I said I'm not any kind of Dodger expert so I don't know if that was right move/wrong outcome or what the #### is he doing territory but as a Sox fan I know that I felt pretty good when Madson came in.
   14. Greg Pope Posted: October 30, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5779816)
If that is true, if the front office really did script scenarios or tell Roberts that Buehler, Baez etc were not available, it would probably be a nice gesture to put a name on those decisions or at the very least acknowledge Roberts was in a tough spot.

Depends, though, on what the whole group, including Roberts, wants. Maybe they all get together as a group and talk about things with the agreement that everybody presents a united front. So Roberts gets his way sometimes and not others, but doesn't say when things aren't his idea. I mean, if he does the sabermetric thing and it doesn't work out, he doesn't say "Well, I didn't agree with it, but the front office told me to pinch hit for the catcher there, and the guy struck out. Not my fault." So he doesn't say it the other way, either.

Maybe more importantly, Roberts may not want it to get out that he's just a puppet. He could lose the clubhouse that way. So he takes the good and the bad blame, and lets the players "know" that he's in charge. So Roberts himself may not want it known that he's not calling the shots.
   15. J. Sosa Posted: October 30, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5779856)
That’s just it though, there is no way players don’t know who is calling the shots. Stand at the top of the dugout and look stately? Glorified press secretary? Why exactly would the players respect him on any level?

I don’t doubt Roberts knew what he signed on for. United front, sure. But it is like having a press secretary where everybody pretends the secretary is the president. Just how much influence does Roberts have exactly if he doesn’t have a say in blanket platoons, pitch counts, and pitcher availability?

FWiW I do buy this particular criticism of Process types. Somebody else’s name is almost always on the L.
   16. J. Sosa Posted: October 30, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5779860)
Jose:

SI

Fangraphs

Remains to be seen how it will turn out.

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