The late Johnny Pesky gave his life to his beloved Boston Red Sox [team stats], but, sadly, it appears only four current players made time to attend the Fenway icon’s funeral.
Word from Yawkey Way is that the Sox front office hired buses to bring players, office and staff to the funeral from the ballpark to the church. The suits, we hear, were surprised and disappointed when the vast majority of the 40 players on the roster didn’t bother to show up for the services.
“We ordered the buses for the front office to go, knowing that any players could join us or drive separately from their homes,” Sox spokesman Charles Steinberg told the Track. “Between the ownership, front office, current players and staff, and former players, we were well represented by the people who knew Johnny best.”
The only players the Herald observed at the funeral at St. John The Evangelist Church in Swampscott were designated hitter David Ortiz, pitchers Clay Buchholz and Vincente Padilla and catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
By contrast, that same night, nearly the entire team turned out for pitcher Josh Beckett [stats]’s annual Beckett Bowl and country music show at Lucky Strike Lanes and the House of Blues.
“The front office was not happy,” said Someone Who Knows.
Repoz
Posted: August 23, 2012 at 12:15 AM |
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Ortiz doesn't count as a senior member of the team? Buchholz, Padilla, and Salty aren't reps of the team?
Did you miss where SoSH called them "loathsome" and then told me that I was the one hyperventilating?
Is it just me, or have there been a few prior loathsome things that have occurred this year?
Sure, but apparently management had a desire, at least, to send the whole team. That is part of what created the opening for this story to be written.
No doubt. It's not every funeral home.
But, both the wedding and funeral industries have significant problems of providers exploiting people's emotions to sell super-high end, unnecessary services.
That is a pretty strong word, and no, I didn't miss it. But I didn't take the word 100% literally, and I think if you look at all of SoSH's posts on the subject, his point is pretty clear.
No Ray, that's the asinine leap that you made (which is kind of your specialty).
This Red Sox team is the most loathsome because, from Day 1 (well, actually, since Day 1 of the offsesason), it's been one embarrasing or dispiriting incident after another, involving just about every member of the organization (players, manager, coaches, medical staff, FO), while massively underachieving along the way. A paltry turnout at Pesky's funeral didn't turn them from lovable losers to loathsome louts, but was just one more sorry example of a team that I find damn near impossible to root for.
And to clarify, since it came up, "most loathsome" was the phrase I used, which is a relative, not absolute term. The 2001 club was the most difficult to root for in my lifetime. The 2012 edition is making a nice run at the title.
No, what is "apparent" is that they ordered the buses for the front office and any players were welcome to join. Because, well, that's what they said:
On the other hand, we have:
It is not reasonable to lend greater credence to someone named Someone Who Knows over the very reasonable statement that the team spokesman made.
Because they're losing. When they were winning, they were celebrated as "idiots." And fans take their cue from the media and just lap this nonsense up.
Welcome to why I don't read sportswriters.
And the kicker. If the Sox were winning they would not be loathsome. Maybe stop all the moralizing crap and just admit that you have decided to judge someone's morality because they are not playing a game up to your predetermined standards.
I think the outrage is in the minds of the "suits" that gave this story to the press, who in turn are hoping to spark outrage against their own players in the heart of Joe Sixpack.
Yes.
If the funeral was a small deal and the players weren't really expected to go, why did they go to the trouble of chartering a frickin' bus for them?
They didn't. The bus was for the front office.
They didn't. They chartered it for the front office. There was room for players, too.
You are not my go-to guy on "reasonable", or "contextual and interpersonal awareness" Ray. Steinberg may have just been covering his ass and his boss's asses and upper management may really be pissed off.
Or maybe not. But you really have no idea.
The piece is obviously designed to get a rise out of people; that is the media. Doesn't mean your spin on it is right. Given how dysfunctinal the Boston org has been in some ways, Someone Who Knows may actually know something.
And either way, this is just a sensibilities issue as much as anything else and really has no right answer.
Really close coworkers, yes. I'm probably older than you and I've worked at the same place a long time. Many coworkers are more like longtime friends.
Thus, probably invalidating my original analogy.
Ray said it! It must be wrong!
So true.
" Face it, fellas. We look dysfunctional. We are not performing. Let's at least show that we are still a team. Let's show our solidarity, by standing by one of our own. Let's get on that bus. I mean, if we can do the Beckett Bowl together, we can do this!"
Isn't that what you'd want to hear/see from your team captain/leader?
(Not a Sox fan by any measure and no moral outrage here, just seems....classless and maybe even clueless to me, considering context)
The losing is a big factor, without a doubt.
But it's not it entirely, and it really has nothing to do with moralizing.
The unbelievable ugliness with Tito's exit (whomever was responsible). The long-running Theo saga. Hiring one of my least favorite people in baseball to be the new manager (and him being everything I feared). The Youkilis dump. The medical shenanigans. The text message saga. The fact the managers and coaches can't even bring themsevles to speak to one another. All of these, most having nothing to do with the press, have combined to make this a God awful season.
This has been an unlikable team, from top to bottom. They'd be unlikable if they were winning, but it would be a lot easier to overlook. That they also suck, yes, does make them even more difficult to root for. I also like it when my favorite team doesn't suck. You got me.
The question is why you bother paying attention to most of this stuff. Who the manager is and the fact that Youkilis was traded, yes. But caring about nonsense such as the text message saga? Why on earth?
I just watch the games. If I wanted to watch a soap opera I'd watch General Hospital.
And you are judging their character based on how good they are at winning baseball games, but whatever.
From everything I've seen and heard about Pesky's relationship with the Red Sox, that's why I think that the Red Sox organization should have organized the event, hired the bus, and told (or strongly requested) the team to show up at the bus, so that they could attend as a team.
That would have sent a powerful message that the Red Sox were being attentive to their own history. Leadership starts at the top, and while it's not too surprising that only 4 players on this team would bother to take the trouble to show up on their own, if the Red Sox had really wanted to see a much bigger turnout, they could have easily gotten it.
And BTW the same sentiment applies to the Yankees and Bob Sheppard. Clueless ballplayers can be found in 30 different sets of uniforms. It's not just a Red Sox shortcoming.
More generally, and not specifically about the Pesky funeral:
All you guys who say you wouldn't feel "comfortable" attending a funeral for someone you didn't personally know...yeah, see, NO ONE is "comfortable" attending a funeral. Because, you know, someone is dead. Which is generally, on balance, a bad thing that makes people sad. Being "uncomfortable" is not a good reason not to attend, with the only possible exception being if you know for a fact that your presence will upset people close to the departed.
Wakes/funerals are for paying your respects to the dead, and yes they are also for those close to him/her, to see that someone cared enough about *either* the person who passed or about them to take the time to put on some nice clothes and sacrifice some of their time to pay those respects. There are many times that people will not expect you to attend, but they will nearly always appreciate it. Two examples:
When I was in high school, a math teacher that a group of us had for several years had one of her parents pass away. A handful of us decided to go to the wake (she was both a good teacher and a very nice woman). She was quite clearly gobsmacked, and touched, that we showed up.
A few years ago, the elderly mother of one of our Board members passed away after a long illness and what had been a difficult last few weeks. He'd mentioned it in a few emails, explaining why he was going to be late getting back to us on a few things. I'd known and worked with him (not side by side daily, just on ongoing programs for the association) for something like 8 years, and of course had never met his mother. I went back and forth on going, as i knew I wouldn't be *expected* there. But I decided to go (it was about an hour's drive), and again, his obvious surprise was followed quickly by gratitude. After the obligatory condolences and solemnity, we eventually chatted for a bit and had a laugh or two. I left feeling like I'd made a rough day for him just a tiny bit better, and therefore completely worth it.
I'm not saying anyone should feel obligated to go to any and every funeral you have the most tenuous connection to, but limiting it to people you personally are close to seems awfully limited.
Look, I agree with you, until you say the players themselves are unlikable and loathsome. It sucks that they are losing, but does that really change how you look at someone like Pedroia? Westbrook? Daniel Nava? So you may already dislike Beckett or Lackey, fine. Why does that turn Adrian Gonzalez into a loathsome beast, because some asshat 'reporter' claimed Gonzalez sent a text to an owner?
Who on the Red Sox do you really dislike rooting for if the team was doing well? Personally, I can't stand Lackey (which is getting tough with every report about him being a great teammate). I am indifferent to Beckett. Aviles's batting stance annoys me and I would rather not see it.
And now, to lighten things up...
But did the Flotilla come up from Philadelphia to join him?
Isn't that what you'd want to hear/see from your team captain/leader?
Except that isn't really the precedent in the area seeing as the Yankee captain cobbled together a batallion of exactly zero Yankees to go to Bob Sheppard's funeral, and Sheppard had been with the organization until very shortly before his death.
Wakes and funerals are ENTIRELY about paying your respect to the living people who were close to the dead. The dead are dead. They don't know if you came to their funeral.
Presumably not ... hence your difficulty grasping the concept.
Knowing Beckett's character, I'm not sure we can totally discount this possibility.
Should've been done then too, really. The comparison isn't apt though, as Jeter had said they didn't know of the funeral, the Sox players most obviously did. So, wtf does precedent have to do with it? That's kind of a lame cop-out.
"Word from the Red Sox Front Office is that they told the entire baseball team to show up to Pesky's funeral. Clearly this shows the strain between the front office and the players. <insert lots of speculative hype here to fill out a few paragraphs> Tensions between players and the FO have never been heavier, said Someone Who Knows."
This is absurd, forcing people into a funeral for self-serving purposes. If someone's arm has to be twisted, they don't belong there, and whoever is trying to get them there is being really disrespectful to the deceased.
I didn't say that. I said this team, the whole package, is unlikable. That this collection has been difficult to root for, because of the things that have gone on this season, off and on the field. I haven't singled anyone out (other than Bobby V, who I never wanted to be the manager and who I hold responsible for much of the crap that's taken place). Then again, he may be a lovely fella, so don't take my dislike of him to be an assessment of his person.
I didn't blame any individuals for not going to the funeral. Some of them may have the discomfort mentioned above. Beckett (about the only one of the players I genuinely don't like) may have had to attend to some last-minute details before his fundraiser. But I find it hard to believe that everyone has that kind of excuse, and I find four to be a pretty paltry sum.
I have not, despite Ray's declarations to the contrary, judged anyone's character by their ability to win or lose baseball games. I've stated that this club has been the most difficult Red Sox team for me to root for, at least since the similarly dispiriting 2001 season. Not because they're bad people. But because of the long list of tiresome incidents and because they're bad at baseball.
Fair enough (though I'm not exactly young, FYI, and I've worked at the same place a long time too). Normally though if I would actually be asked/invited/etc. to attend, it would be because we've crossed that line from co-worker to friend. We have non-work-related ties at this point. But even then, I would expect it to be a close friend; attending a casual friend's parent's funeral would seem bizarre.
Thanks. I certainly was unclear on all that.
OK, first of all there is a difference between "uncomfortable because it's a funeral" and "uncomfortable because nobody here knows me and the loved ones are looking at me with puzzled expressions trying to place my face." Having been a manager, if one of my employees showed up for my mom's funeral, it would be weird. I mean, I'd smile, and I suppose I'd appreciate the sentiment, but it would just seem weird to me.
Different strokes, I guess, which is why I mentioned that how people handle death is a personal thing and we probably shouldn't get all worked up about how someone else responds to it.
Really?
Cause that to me sorta reads as if you are calling the players loathsome. Sure, you didn't call out a specific player, but your wording certainly implies you are upset with the players themselves not just the organization as a whole. And calling someone loathsome is absolutely a moral judgement.
Sounds like something Jeter would say. It's certainly a convenient excuse.
Johnny Pesky's funeral isn't a photo op. It should not be treated like a photo op. When it is short of the ideal photo op, nobody should be lamenting that it could've looked better.
I'm sure Johnny Pesky meant more to my mother than he did to me, and I'm sure he meant more to me than he did to most of the active Red Sox players. But neither I nor my mother attended the funeral, and a few players did attend. I have no standing to be critical of the other players for failing to do more than the nothing I did.
Because Jeter and his mates didn't care enough.
If you know it's the right thing to do, then you perform the simple function, much like the rest of the human race and find out for yourself when the funeral is.
Sadly, I've heard that Stan Musial isn't doing well. Should we anticipate giving Chris Carpenter getting a pass if no one tells him when and where the funeral would be or is that such a leap of faith that we shouldn't expect him (or whoever the current appropriate rep is) to know that when someone dies, a funeral often follows?
Huh? Ok, you've totally lost me....I have no clue how this turned into a Yankee thing...just figured all of us would like our team leader or whatever to do something similar given the circumstances, but if not that's ok too....how this turned into "Precedent, your Honor! Jeter V Sheppard (2012)!" is WAY over my head....I only hope I'm missing the joke/meme whatever......
Am I missing something? This has exactly what to do with my point again? Jeter and every other player that fancies himself the leader of the clubhouse/dugout should do the same, IMHO. Isn't that what a lot of us would like to see? If for no other reason then the whole "Rally the troops!" thing....you know, that leader-type-folk do....
Yes, you have, and it wasn't just me who pointed it out.
Uh, no, I would introduce myself to those people and we could share memories of our mutual friend's life. As I said, I would pay respect to the living.
Edit:
To clarify further - funerals and wakes act as a set time to gather and console people. That single day however should not be the only time you 'pay respect' to the dead. I feel the same way about Christmas, birthdays, mother's day, Valentine's day, etc. I understand that is THE DAY to celebrate but I would hope if you love your mother you aren't only being nice to her on Mother's day, which is really justt a random day on the calender. The funeral may be the day the body goes into the ground but it's not the only day to reflect on your loss.
And I'll bet none of you went to his funeral, either.
Facts:
There was a bus
Some players weren't on it.
Possibilities:
Nobody told the players in any kind of organized way
The Sox medical staff diagnosed Pesky with no more than a mild strain that would heal on its own with just a day off or two, alleviating the need to make a move of any kind
Wendell Kim sent the bus early, before Pedroia et al arrived at the departure spot
“We ordered the buses for the front office to go, knowing that any players could join us or drive separately from their homes,” Sox spokesman Charles Steinberg told the Track. “Between the ownership, front office, current players and staff, and former players, we were well represented by the people who knew Johnny best.”
Actual person speaking for the organization: 'everything's jake.'
“The front office was not happy,” said Someone Who Knows.
Gossip columnist d-bags, made-up ####-disturber, and you guys: 'RAHH! #### this team!'
Do we know this didn't happen? Ortiz may not be the team captain, but he's the Elder Statesman of the team at this point and probably knew Pesky the best among the current Sox roster.
As if it's so complicated to go to a funeral. In the normal world, a player could ask the team, "Where is the funeral taking place? How do I get there?"
Man, that's complex.
As if it's so complicated to go to a funeral. In the normal world, a player could ask the team, "Where is the funeral taking place? How do I get there?"
Man, that's complex.
I'm struggling to find a connection between your first paragraph and your second.
I'm failing.
Double posting on the other hand is easy.
As if it's so complicated to go to a funeral. In the normal world, a player could ask the team, "Where is the funeral taking place? How do I get there?"
Man, that's complex.
“We ordered the buses for the front office to go, knowing that any players could join us or drive separately from their homes,” Sox spokesman Charles Steinberg told the Track. “Between the ownership, front office, current players and staff, and former players, we were well represented by the people who knew Johnny best.”
--anyone who shows up is appreciated. it's the mere act of showing up. the effort is acknowledged
--close attachment or even any attachment to the deceased is not expected. you are showing up in support of the folks who are still alive
--you need not stay long. you stop by, you kibitz, you see the folks you know, you say you are sorry, you leave
--standing in line to see the dead person is not required
i hope this helps. because funerals matter to the folks still living. they really do.
"In all these photos, he's coming across as really stiff. Don't you guys ever lighten up? Smiles, people, smiles!"
--Throwing yourself bodily into the casket while sobbing hysterically, as one of my aunts did at her sister's viewing, is less than ideal but permissible for members of the old school.
These days, I thought it was: 25 guys, 25 strollers.
And then got thrown under it.
The big "Johnny Pesky Day" came in 2008 when they retired his uniform number on his birthday. He is the only non-Hall of Famer to have his number retired by the Sox.
They can also be about yourself, as a griever.
They can also be about manufacturing a fake show of support for self-serving purposes, as we've learned from people in this thread.
I agree with Ray on this one. It sounds like you all are being played but a couple of gossip columnists. And if the FO wanted all the players there, they should have told all the players they wanted them there. Or should have told the team captain that he should round up the players and get them there.
A lot of us would like to believe baseball as an institution is more than that, but it isn't.
Well, that just missed the point of what I said.
Unlike working on the line at a GM plant a baseball player lives forever because of what baseball means to its fans. Last week I bought a box of 1987 Topps baseball cards and they came in the mail yesterday. I can't remember why but I looked up some schlub's baseball card on ebay and sure enough there were three of his cards for that year being sold with his autograph on it. That won't ever happen for some lineworker at a GM plant.
Well, if there were any fans of Pesky's among current Red Sox, that might have driven them to go to his funeral. Other than that, I'm not sure how Pesky having fans or playing baseball equates to Red Sox employees attending his funeral.
Sure, that's possible. It is also possible that Ray is being played by Charles Steinberg.
Either way, it is not a huge deal.
Sure, and since the Boston FO has no communication or lines of authority issues, and the Red Sox have functioned so well in terms of the media and public relations the last couple of years, they would obviously have never dropped the ball on anything like this.
Sure, and since the Boston FO has no communication or lines of authority issues, and the Red Sox have functioned so well in terms of the media and public relations the last couple of years, they would obviously have never dropped the ball on anything like this.
But if that's what happened, then I don't see why we should be critical of the players, and I especially don't see why we should care that the front office "was not happy".
As Yogi put it, you go to funerals so people go to yours.
This, this, a thousand times this.
This hardly sounds like it has anything to do with the subject at hand. If you think baseball players should be obligated to go to something like this, that's on you. Fame and baseball cards and whatnot have nothing to do with it.
Baseball players gain immortality by simply becoming major league baseball players. Simply being a major league baseball player means something because of what has happened before and the decades upon decades of building up baseball and the players to the point where scrubs can live on forever simply by being a major league baseball player. Baseball players are part of something and they should try to continue the legacy.
OTOH, a lot of baseball players are also young and stupid. It should be the job of the FO and veteran presences on the team to make this clear.
The FO/vets should make it clear that a lot of baseball players are young and stupid? I thought that was the job of sportswriters.
I think the thing that sets people off (particularly here) is there are a lot of players who have no clue about the history of the game, and I know I myself am guilty of outrage over that from time to time.
Many black players today have absolutely no idea whatsoever who Jackie Robinson was.
When Don Mattingly joined the Yankees as a first baseman, people had to explain to him who Lou Gehrig was. A first baseman for the Yankees had to be told who Lou Gehrig was. Really.
But while many of us fans take players to task for not knowing their past, heck, let's face it, there are a lot of fans that have no clue, either. When I went to Yankee Stadium in 2005 I had to explain to several Yankee fans who all the people in Monument Park were. They had "heard of" Babe Ruth and maybe Joe DiMaggio, not much beyond that. It was sad.
That's only because he didn't go to school in Boston. Them Michiganders who matriculate in New England can't resist the lure of the Old Towne Team.
If it's any more than that, it'd also have to be Colonel Sanders Night.
I thought that already happened. He has a .650 OPS over his last 1200 PAs.
I thought that already happened. He has a .650 OPS over his last 1200 PAs.
But .302/.323/.469 in Pinstripes!
Gonzalez being forced to provide an alibi. How ridiculous. You people really need to get lives.
And please note Lucchino's quote: "The buses were not for the players." But why believe Lucchino that the organization isn't upset with the players, when you can believe Someone Who Knows?
Wow, that is pretty loathsome.
Well, shortly after Pesky died, Nomar Garciaparra was on the radio, talking about his relationship with Pesky. He said that Pesky did help him with his fielding, and other on-the-field things, but what Pesky really did for him was to teach him about the history of the organization and about how passionate the fan base was and how interested in the team's history the fans were. Nomar's point was that growing up in Southern California, people just weren't interested in that sort of thing, but that Pesky had impressed on him that it was important to know something about the history of the team, and made it a lot of fun to do so. Over his time in Boston, Nomar probably became closer than any of the other players to the old timers who spent time around the team - certainly with Pesky and Williams. I don't think it's really a sign of disrepect when players don't know these things - it's just a product of their environments.
The weird thing about getting older is knowing that a lot of the annoying celebrities (not Ichiro, just generally) in the world are probably going to outlive me. When you're young, you can count down until the day when annoying ######## will die but now I can no longer count on that satisfaction. A real bummer.
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