He's 23 years old trying for a job in major league baseball. That's old enough and accomplished enough to not be a stupid #######.

16 and with a learner's permit is old enough and accomplished enough to not drive 110 in a pick-up after drinking until 4:45 am.

Here is Thailand, drinking and driving is basically the national pastime. And that's with most people riding motorbikes.

In my time traveling in Thailand, I saw some horrendous accidents with alarming frequency.

I have some scars from rolling off a motorbike in Cambodia that will stay with me forever.

I can't speak for the driver, but I was hammered.

KT, I'm guessing a Mustang GT or equivalent Camaro. 165 sounds a bit high, even for that car.

2010 Boxster S. it might be a little over 165, the 2013 model is rated at 170, with same power, a little better drag coefficient.

Obviously it has the proper speed rated tires, I got it to 125 on a trip to Vegas, and that experience didn't make me want to try to go any higher. Ever.

But at 100 MPH its as stable as 65 in most cars, and probably can stop faster. It's brakes are amazing, the best part of t.

I am also familiar with this road he was driving on, having driven on it once or twice myself. Unless much has changed in the last few years, it's a straight four lane divided highway with generally nothing on either side, and light traffic.

Sounds like a relatively easy road to speed on, with a PF (Pavement Factor) of about 1.11? I figure with the PF adjustment this means his OPS+ (Over Proper Speed adjustment) was about (111/1.11) divided by 45 which is about a 222 OPS+.

Sounds like a league-leading figure to me!

Obviously it has the proper speed rated tires, I got it to 125 on a trip to Vegas, and that experience didn't make me want to try to go any higher. Ever.

I've gotten my BMW to the electronic limiter at 110, which is an entirely different experience from getting my 1970 GTO to 110. In the z4 it was almost an accident, I knew I was going fast but on a long straight highway surrounded by fields I had no frame of reference for how fast. I thought the GTO was going to tear itself apart (and it started to, my rear view mirror fell off).

Curiosity right back to the group: why do so many people distinguish between "DUI" and "criminal" cases?

Here in Wisconsin, the first DUI isn't criminal, just a municipal offense.

Based on my time in Milwaukee, I **fully** believe that.

Here in Wisconsin, the first DUI isn't criminal, just a municipal offense.

Interesting.
So the govt still gets its sweet sweet DUI money, but with a reduced burden of proof and fewer constitutional rights for the driver (who has to pay the court if he wants a trial)?
Win - win - win!

In high school my friend had a 1975 Nova that was ridiculously overpowered. He'd regularly get it up to 105 mph on the way home from school along a relatively empty stretch of highway, although for no more than a minute or so.

My personal land speed record was set on the Autobahn in a Renault Twingo. Neither of us had any business breaking triple digits, but we did. Yes, miles, not kilometers.

120 mph on a 1987 dodge diplomat. Tgat car was a beast 5.2l v8 mopar engine rated at 318

So the govt still gets its sweet sweet DUI money, but with a reduced burden of proof and fewer constitutional rights for the driver (who has to pay the court if he wants a trial)?
Win - win - win!

Although IAAL, I have never had involvement in these cases. I do know that if you want a trial in real court you're going to have to pay a jury fee anyway.

I think it's a cultural thing (statewide), and also goes hand-in-hand with the cities' relatively bad public transportation. Here in Madison, the buses shut down around midnight, and Milwaukee's are chronically underfunded and have been slowly whittling away service. The prospect of paying a cab the equivalent of three beers is unappealing. (I generally walk).

The fastest I've ever gone is 145km/hr (90mph), and that was coming down a hill after overtaking a truck on the biggest highway in North America (401, in Toronto).
I had no idea I was going that fast, and immediately dropped back to (the much-closer-to-legal) 115km/hr.

When I was driving on a open stretch of the same highway a few years later, I was passed by a guy that was going at least 175km/hr (108mph).
I measured his speed based on the time it took him to pass two marker posts on the side of the road. (They were 100 meters apart, and he did it in about 2 seconds (1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi). I worked it out when I got home.)

It was scary watching him roar by me as I barely saw him in my rear view mirror as he came over the hill behind me. If I had decided to switch lanes, he never would have had time to brake or avoid hitting me (or the guy behind me in my lane).

Quebec has a history of insane speeders.
(That's ~150mph in a ~45mph zone.)

Once circa 1996 I floored my 1984 Chevy Cavalier station wagon for about 40 seconds on a straight highway with a slight downhill incline. I managed to peg the speedometer at its max of 85, but it took most of the 40 seconds to get there. That car was a sweet ride. I loved having to mash the acceleration into the floorboard if I wanted to depart from a stoplight in a timely manner.

Speakingof bicycles. It seems odd to treat drunken bicycle riding as comparable to drunk driving in a car. It's just nowhere near as hazardous. I have a friend who gave up riding bicycles in the rural south. Drivers seemed too often to think he was there for sport. Sober drivers, apparently.

#62 One of my favorite autobiographies was Edward Lasker's. He talks about his experiences being chauffeured in South America in the 50s. Evidently the drivers hadn't mastered traffic lights. The approved driving style when approaching any intersection was to accelerate as rapidly as possible (to get through the danger point as quickly as possible) and jam on the brakes at the last second if you've miscalculated.

Isn't this the way most people approach relationships?

Speakingof bicycles. It seems odd to treat drunken bicycle riding as comparable to drunk driving in a car. It's just nowhere near as hazardous.

It's only odd if you assume the state's goal is improving public safety.

I'm surprised there have been so few cop stories, though as no one on this site ever drives with more than two careful beers in them...

I was recently at home, working in my living room, and there was a long, loud knock at the door. It wasn't the first knock a friend makes, or the tentative knock of someone who's lost and looking for directions.

I paused for a moment and it came again, maybe ten, loud consecutive raps along with "This is the ____ Sheriff's Office." Now, I have to take painkillers for a chronic condition, and sometimes they're out and around, so I'm not sure exactly what happens if I let a policeman into my living room and he spots a daily, traveling dose of a scheduled substance in a clear vial, but some scenarios involve a certain amount of inconvenience, so I ask him to wait a minute.

I find cops in general to be nice guys, at worst businesslike, but I'm also very aware that many of them do things exactly by the book, then add a little discretion that seems invariably to favor them, so I turn on my portable business recorder, briefly describe the circumstances, and put it in my pocket. I turn on my webcam and set it to record, then take out my wallet and put it in a drawer, and get my house keys. I go outside and lock the door behind me and have a nice chat with the officer who handles things very pleasantly and politely (as they typically do).

He tells me there was an apparently drunk driver on the road that caused some damage then gave them the slip and did I know anything helpful? I said I did not and indicated the only car then on the property. I wouldn't have objected, if it looked like the suspect car, if he'd put his hand on the hood to see if it had been driven recently, but apparently it didn't so he didn't. He then pleasantly asked me for my name and I said I'd rather not, if it was all the same to him. He hemmed and hawed a little and I very pleasantly said that if it wasn't required (I'm not sure that it is under these circumstances) I'd just rather not go into the system unnecessarily. Not a big deal to me, but it seemed like a reasonable request. The cop then asked if I'd be comfortable just showing my name on a driver's license; that I could cover up the other information if I wanted, and just show the name. I said again, gee, I'd just really rather not, if that's okay. He was very cool about it, and wrote down his name and number in case I changed my mind, and bid me a good night.

It was all perfectly friendly, although I hear some cops get aggressive when you don't fully cooperate.

edit: "It's only odd if you assume the state's goal is improving public safety."

So, let's penalize drunk walking the same as drunk driving. After all, the operator of the 'vehicle' is still drunk, right? We can only hope that you and the state over time come to realize there are such things as "differing degrees of danger". A long shot, I know...

Speakingof bicycles. It seems odd to treat drunken bicycle riding as comparable to drunk driving in a car. It's just nowhere near as hazardous.

To whom? If a bicycle rider is in an accident with a car, that's not hazardous?

So, let's penalize drunk walking the same as drunk driving.

A person is not a vehicle, and there are laws dealing with public drunkenness.

We can only hope that you and the state over time come to realize there are such things as "differing degrees of danger". A long shot, I know...

It's literally my job to fight against prosecutorial overreach, so either this is a reading comprehension issue or you are assuming things you should not be assuming.

Speakingof bicycles. It seems odd to treat drunken bicycle riding as comparable to drunk driving in a car. It's just nowhere near as hazardous.

To whom? If a bicycle rider is in an accident with a car, that's not hazardous?

Not the point.

So, let's penalize drunk walking the same as drunk driving.

A person is not a vehicle, and there are laws dealing with public drunkenness.

That was sarcasm.

We can only hope that you and the state over time come to realize there are such things as "differing degrees of danger". A long shot, I know...

It's literally my job to fight against prosecutorial overreach, so either this is a reading comprehension issue or you are assuming things you should not be assuming.

So, we're in Wonderland now? There's really no sense in this thread that riding a bicycle while drunk isn't somehow different than driving a car while drunk?

A bicycle?

Bicycles have sustainable top speeds of around 20 mph; cars around 100 mph. Bicycles weigh 20-30 pounds. Cars and passenger trucks weigh 2,500 to 6,000 pounds. Bicycles typically don't carry passengers. Cars often do. Bicycles are only very rarely driven on highways. Cars often are. A bicycle hitting a human being head on at its top speed will only rarely result in a fatality to the victim. A car hitting a human being head on at its top speed will only very rarely not kill the victim. A bicycle hitting a car will only very rarely injure the car's occupants. A car hitting another car will often injure the other car's occupants.

I could go on...

double post

Drunk bicycle runs a red light, enters an intersection and cars swerve to miss it. Four cars are involved in the pile-up, killing an 8 year old.

What do you charge the cyclist with?


I do generally agree that drunk cycling isn't as dangerous (to others) as drunk cycling. But a drunk cyclist on a busy road is a serious hazard.

I also agree that the goal of charging people with drunk cycling is most likely not public safety. Or, at least, that public safety is down a ways on the list.

Bicycles are vehicles -- albeit self-propelled ones. When driven on public thoroughfares they are required to follow all the traffic laws. It makes sense to include the ones regarding the requirement that the operator not be intoxicated.

My record is 110 MPH. '93 Honda Accord. I was 21 and just got my first car and decided that every time I made the trip from Ithaca to NYC or NYC to Ithaca I would make it in better time than the previous trip. I was pulled over shortly thereafter for doing 96 in a 65 after coming around a turn in the road. Never been much over ~80 since.

I'm the person that friends/family hate to have around when drinking occurs because I have, on more than one occasion, prevented trips from occurring because I refused to get in a car when I was aware that the driver had been drinking. At some point in the last year I did have my first incident where I drove after having had a couple drinks and felt terrible about the entire experience.

That was sarcasm.

It sure was.

Bicycles are vehicles -- albeit self-propelled ones. When driven on public thoroughfares they are required to follow all the traffic laws. It makes sense to include the ones regarding the requirement that the operator not be intoxicated.

It makes sense for there to be a "BUI". It doesn't make sense for bicycling drunk to be a "DUI". Plus, there are very good reasons why an authority would want to incentivize riding drunk over driving drunk, even if riding drunk is a societal bad.

I only drove drunk once, as a teenager. It was my friend's car and he was way, way more drunk that I was, so I offered to drive. Of course, that's the problem: once you're drunk, your judgement is impaired, and not only was I in no condition to drive, I wasn't in the condition to decide whether I could drive or not.

As said before, I've previously posted stories of my reckless driving, though they involve me not getting enough sleep or distracting myself with other things, as opposed to alcohol consumption.

The worst: pulled back-to-back all nighters studying for finals during a semester when I basically blew off my work. Then, in the afternoon, got pulled for speeding past a cop while delivering a couch, did some shows and had a celebratory beer with fellow performers at 1 AM or so (it was my first show in a certain capacity), then got pulled again (with the smell of beer possibly on my breath - it was an hour later before I hit the road) while driving home (having not slept in almost 70 hours at that point) as I drove through a red light (which I realized I'd done as it was happening, saw the cop behind me, pulled myself over before they turned their lights on. Talked my way out of both tickets, went home and slept for about a day.
It wasn't until the tenth (the tenth!) time I was pulled over for something that I actually got a ticket*. And that I thought was undeserved (illegal u-turn where the sign was literally facing the wrong way), but karmically - whoo - I deserved it.
Anyway, it's been 15 years since then and I certainly drive less recklessly, but I still go too fast on occasion, have my music too loud, etc...


* At the time, I considered my ability to talk my way out of tickets as close as I might ever come to a superpower as well as pretty damn concrete evidence that I benefited from a form of white privilege, compared to my friends who would get written up for lesser stuff while I was with them.

I know I passed 100 mph once, just for the hell of it, on I-30 in Arkansas in the first car I ever bought, a '73 Mustang, back in probably 1980. Luckily, this was not on the trip when I nodded off while driving the other way on the same interstate & found myself driving on the shoulder, then over-corrected & found myself & swerved over to the other shoulder.

jack carter

here in texas, the actual law sez that you do NOT have to show ID to a cop if you are not driving. they are not allowed to demand ID unless you are suspected of a felony, and you have the right to ask them which felony. of course, if you are not White, they will think up something fast. and in some paces, they make it illegal to videotape any interactions (cough) you have with cops.

i try not to give cops nay excuse to have any interaction with me. because i know they will use any excuse they can find to arrest, harrass, kill me because i am not White. thanks to nieporent, i know better to say pretty much anything to any cop except for, do you have a warrant, for what crime am i being arrested and i would like to call my attorney. i also know that this is houston and that cops here can do basically anything they want to non-Whites and not have any problems because of it.

i have been pulled over for DWB 4 times in my life. it's beyond terrifying - every time i see a cop i think he/she is going to kill me. and the cops use you being scared as an excuse to intimidate, harrass and search you and the car. so of course i am in The Computer, just like pretty much anyone of the non-White persuasion they can think of an excuse to pull over. i know that if i see lights, i immediately call someone and have them listening to the conversation so that i will have a witness to anything. so far, THAT is not illegal.

as for speeding
i never EVER speed except on the freeway. i love to drive really fast and would go to a track if i had the $$$ - used to drive fast any time i got on a freeway where it was possible. drove my poor Husband afc. i never did it if i had kidz in the car. i stopped going over 90 though because if you do, you come up on other cars so fast they literally don't see you coming and seeing as how there is no law about slow traffic keep right anywhere in texas i've been, cars change lanes right and left all the time and you can easily get killed. and them too. and i am not a murderer.

it's remarkable i haven't never been pulled over for speeding, but then again, almost all speed traps are not ON the freeway except where there are small towns. there are some infamous speed traps. i heard that someone beat a speeding ticket because they had that kind of insurance where they put something computery in your car to track the speed and milage all the time. but i don't know if it's true or just a story.

and i have not been there my own self but i heard tell that on i-10, west of elpaso, there is a serious problem with the road being so long with no turns that drivers get sleepy and the places where most craashes because of drivers falling asleep happen, they put up some kind of noises or flashing lights to make sure that people wake back up. and people in texas drive very very very fast on long straight stretches of road...

Bicycles are vehicles -- albeit self-propelled ones. When driven on public thoroughfares they are required to follow all the traffic laws. It makes sense to include the ones regarding the requirement that the operator not be intoxicated.

They're far less dangerous for others, it's hard to kill anyone but yourself when you're riding a bike.

and i have not been there my own self but i heard tell that on i-10, west of elpaso, there is a serious problem with the road being so long with no turns that drivers get sleepy and the places where most craashes because of drivers falling asleep happen, they put up some kind of noises or flashing lights to make sure that people wake back up. and people in texas drive very very very fast on long straight stretches of road...

My most vivid memory of that stretch of highway, approaching the New Mexico border, is an absolutely amazing fog bank that seemed to stretch for miles & miles & miles in the middle of the night back in probably 12/80. I don't know how long it lasted, or how slowly I drove -- probably faster than I should have, but still well below the speed limit -- but it was like something out of a horror movie.

Actually, I shouldn't have been driving at all; I could barely see beyond the front of my friend's '72 Corolla. I don't recall ever encountering another vehicle, luckily.

and i have not been there my own self but i heard tell that on i-10, west of elpaso, there is a serious problem with the road being so long with no turns that drivers get sleepy and the places where most craashes because of drivers falling asleep happen, they put up some kind of noises or flashing lights to make sure that people wake back up.

The world's longest car tunnel, which is 15 miles long, was designed with that specifically in mind. I think the lights were spaced in a specific pattern to minimize the hypnotic effect, and every once and awhile there are these crazy cave rooms to break up the monotony.

I was a passenger in a Rx-7 way back in the day gonig 115. My brother's friend was dringing and it was not a freeway. Was fun for young me though. I doubt I have gone much over 90 as a driver, and that very rarely.

I don't recall ever encountering another vehicle, luckily.

I've driven on quite a few rural highways in New Mexico, and I can confirm that some of them are totally deserted. I forget which number it is, but there's one road in the eastern part of the state that was recently widened from two lanes to four, and I have no idea why. Driving on it on New Year's Day, in three hours, I saw three cars on my side of the road, and fewer than thirty coming the other direction. I know that's a day when not many people would be driving, but still...