I know it was yesterday…but the Bill James/Roy White/Jim Rice argument is timeless.
These days, probably the most famous thing about Roy White is a single sentence Bill James wrote in 2001: “I may be the only person who rates Roy White ahead of Jim Rice, George Foster, Joe Carter, and several Hall of Famers.”
For the younger readers among us, White was a two-time All-Star who played 15 years for the Yankees and hit 160 homers with 758 RBIs. James wrote that in his New Historical Abstract, eight years before Rice’s election to the Hall of Fame (and one year before James was hired by Rice’s former employers, the Boston Red Sox), and it brought White the most publicity he’d had in years — perhaps ever.
...Roy White grew up in Compton, California, an understated man who won championships with the two biggest baseball teams in the world, in the World Series with the New York Yankees and in the Japan Series with the Yomiuri Giants. So why is he not remembered that well? It’s because the things he was good at were things that you wouldn’t necessarily notice. He walked a lot. He played good defense in left field in Yankee Stadium, which was so deep that it was known at the time as “Death Valley” — and, as a switch-hitter, White himself saw a lot of potential home runs turn into noisy outs in Death Valley. James highlighted White as an example of the extreme influence that home field can have in baseball: Jim Rice’s inflated offense was partly due to Fenway Park, a bandbox which turned every hitter into a star, while White’s relatively unimpressive offense was partly due to Yankee Stadium, which was death on right-handed sluggers.
...White’s name was often bandied about during the discussions of Jim Rice for the Hall of Fame. White himself didn’t receive a single Hall of Fame vote. Now that Rice is in, not many people write about the old Yankee left fielder that the Red Sox analyst thought was better. But it’s his birthday. He deserves it.
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1. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:30 PM (#4024270)Well, is he green? No. Theory holds.
Same place as David Green.
Joe Black, Game 7 1952 WS starter, was black.
And then there's the white and black Bobby's Brown.
Wasn't that James, in a comment on either Frank White or Bud Black?
He forgot to add: "As a switchhiiter, he also saw a lot of potential routine flyouts land in the rightfield stands as cheap homeruns.".
No I am white like Frank Black is
Jeez, what a buzzkill on ol' Roy's birthday.
Wasn't that James, in a comment on either Frank White or Bud Black?
It was James, about how players are never the same color as their names. He looked at the Royals at that time, who had Frank White, who was black, and Bud Black, who was White. He then noted that Vida wasn't Blue and Darryl wasn't Motley.
Homer Bush hit only 11 in a 7 year career. And Bob Walk had pretty good control.
While many Whites are black, I'm pretty sure all the Whiteys are white.
Also I count 19 Whites who played pre-integration so I'll go out on a limb and guess at least 17 of them were white, including this guy who I suppose gets to be on the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars.
Prince Fielder
Don Money
Norm Cash
Frank White
Bud Black
Buddy Bell
Mark Prior
and the came WAR...
White's career "air" was 89 (meaning his run context was 89% of MLB's historical average)- basically he played his entire career in pitchers parks in a[relative] pitcher's era.
He was not a HOF caliber player, but he was quite likely as good as Jim Rice, just that you'd never ever know that from raw traditional stats.
Even if you run his entire career through BBREF's converter (1978 Fenway) he doesn't get there (.299-187-952, with 6 100+ run seasons and 2 100+ rbi years), similar to Dewey Evans but with less career length, good (but not great) batting average, decent power, decent speed, willing to take a walk, small positives across the board, but nothing that stood out.
except veins... seriously, what I most remember was that he'd bat in short sleeves, and he'd tense up into his batting stance and you could literally see every individual vein, tendon and muscle strand in his arms- he was not "big" but he was ripped, 0% body fat or something
EDIT: And still is.
White had a weak arm but he was a living clinic on getting to the ball and getting rid of it quickly, making an accurate throw and hitting the cutoff man. I know raw OF assist totals don't tell much (When everyone runs on you, you can get some assists along the way) but the 28 OF assists in 1967 stands out.
But the Rockies' Charlie Blackmon is neither black nor Jamaican.
BTW, the SABR bio doesn't cover it, but in 1967 White played for the Dodgers' triple-A farm club prior to being recalled to the bigs by the Yankees. Anyone have more details on that? Back then it was not quite so uncommon for teams to "loan" players, and this is probably the explanation.
Ted Power, as I recall, was a power pitcher at one point. Jim Winn didn't win all that much, though...
Yup. Via Guapo in an old thread.
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