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Sunday, August 05, 2018

Report: Angels manager Mike Scioscia expected to step down at end of season

Scioscia is in the final year of a 10-year contract, and the decision to not seek a new contract is his alone, according to the report, which cited major league sources.

The 60-year-old Scioscia is in his 19th season at the helm of the Angels. They last made the playoffs in 2014 and last won a postseason series in 2009, but Scioscia’s Angels did win the World Series in seven games over the San Francisco Giants in 2002.

Scioscia isn’t retiring, he’s just not going to be back in Anaheim. 18th all-time in managerial wins. I’m not happy to see him go, but it’s completely necessary.

UPDATE:

 

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 05, 2018 at 04:22 AM | 70 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, mike scioscia

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   1. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5721218)
What are Scioscia's HOF chances? He had a pretty decent playing career (26 WAR, 2x all-star, 2 rings) and 1,624 wins as a manager. Five more years should put him over 2,000, and every manager with at least 2,000 wins is in the Hall. (Actually, everybody with 1,900 wins is in except Gene Mauch [who had a losing record] and Bruce Bochy [still active].)
   2. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5721219)
and Bruce Bochy [still active].)


And Bochy is a lock.
   3. Brian C Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5721221)
What are Scioscia's HOF chances?

I think I'd be somewhat reluctant if I was voting - his record doesn't actually seem all that remarkable to me. To be sure, 19 years in one place is impressive, but that's really all he has going on for him outside of the one WS. And aside from the WS, his postseason record isn't even very good - 2 series wins other than 2002. He won 6 division titles, but over 19 years in a division that for most of that time wasn't exceptionally strong, I don't think that stands out. No WC appearances is a mark against him, too.

Mostly, he's seemed like he's maybe slightly better than "just a guy," who had the good fortune of indulgent ownership that kept him around. To paraphrase John Huston in Chinatown: managers, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5721222)
What are Scioscia's HOF chances? He had a pretty decent playing career (26 WAR, 2x all-star, 2 rings) and 1,624 wins as a manager. Five more years should put him over 2,000, and every manager with at least 2,000 wins is in the Hall. (Actually, everybody with 1,900 wins is in except Gene Mauch [who had a losing record] and Bruce Bochy [still active].)


I think he's in that mass of guys that will be difficult to sort out (Piniella, Leyland, Baker, Scioscia, D. Johnson). You could see all make it someday, or none. Leyland probably has the best shot, if Scioscia doesn't pad his resume.

managers, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.


I'm not sure that applies to Scioscia. I think he was seen as one of the really smart guys early in his tenure, but that sheen started to wear off a while ago.
   5. John Northey Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5721225)
537 winning percentage ... not exciting. One WS title is nice, but not 'wow'. About what one would expect from a 19 year career. For comparison Cito Gaston had 2 in a 12 year career.
   6. Brian C Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5721226)
I'm not sure that applies to Scioscia. I think he was seen as one of the really smart guys early in his tenure, but that sheen started to wear off a while ago.

Sure. But imagine a scenario where, instead of signing the 10-year deal, he let himself become a free agent. "Pulled a Maddon," we'll say.

Then he went to a different team and had the exact record as he's had with the Angels. Would anyone be talking about him as a HOF candidate?

More likely he'd have been fired a few years ago by his new team, but whatever. My point is that I suspect the HOF arguments we'll hear will put a lot of weight on the sentimental value of being with the same team for so long.
   7. BDC Posted: August 05, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5721230)
Tom Kelly seems similar, too. Kelly had 1,140 wins and a losing record overall, but would seem to have had less to work with, and like Gaston, won two rings. Did Scioscia get more out of the talent he had than Kelly did?
   8. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 05, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5721232)
(Actually, everybody with 1,900 wins is in except Gene Mauch [who had a losing record] and Bruce Bochy [still active].)


Right now, Bochy also has a career losing record (barely), but the three World Series wins will put him in, and deservedly so.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 05, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5721234)
His face is now a bit jowlier, but when Scioscia first became the Angels' manager I would've sworn he was John McCain's long lost brother.
   10. The Duke Posted: August 05, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5721236)
Wow. Can’t believe he would be in hall conversation. His legacy will be failing to win with babe ruth in his lineup every night.
   11. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 05, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5721238)
Wow. Can’t believe he would be in hall conversation. His legacy will be failing to win with babe ruth in his lineup every night.

In the 3 years where the Angels total offense without Trout had an OPS+ over 100, the overall ERA+ of their pitching staff was 95, 89, and 101. Trout would've had to have combined Ruth's Yankees career as an outfielder with his Red Sox career as a pitcher to have given the Angels a chance to compete with the Big Boys.
   12. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 05, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5721245)
What are Scioscia's HOF chances? He had a pretty decent playing career (26 WAR, 2x all-star, 2 rings) and 1,624 wins as a manager. Five more years should put him over 2,000, and every manager with at least 2,000 wins is in the Hall.

Don't think the playing career really helps managers get in the Hall, especially if it's not close to Hall-worthy. Lots of folks noted how good a player Joe Torre was, but he didn't need the "combined" credit to make the Hall as a manager. Scioscia would have to have a good run managing elsewhere to meet current standards for managers, and I have some doubt he's interested or would land in a good situation.

Is Joe Girardi the #1 candidate for any not-awful managerial jobs?
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: August 05, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5721268)
Is Joe Girardi the #1 candidate for any not-awful managerial jobs?


He should be, but I'm not sure every GM is looking for good managers in his next hire.

   14. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 05, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5721275)
Scioscia's HOF credentials would seem to be winning a World Series and lasting a long time without getting fired. I don't see a lot to differentiate him from Lou Piniella, or even Chuck Tanner.

Scioscia will have lasted 16 years in the same job without winning a title. When was the last time a manager lasted that long without winning or getting fired? Bobby Cox spent 15 seasons in Atlanta after their WS championship. I'm guessing you have to go back to Connie Mack.
   15. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 05, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5721283)
Two Simpsons guest spots should count for something.

That's twice as many as Don Mattingly.
   16. Sunday silence Posted: August 05, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5721287)
would Gil HOdges be a better comparison?
   17. dlf Posted: August 05, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5721288)
When was the last time a manager lasted that long without winning or getting fired?


I can't find anyone after Mack that would fit. Connie went from '13 to '29, won two, then went until 1950 without. Earl Weaver - with a giant asterisk - went from winning the Series in '70 to retiring in '86, but of course he took a couple of seasons off to tend to his tomatoes. The longest in his 26 years Gene Mauch lasted was 9 years in Philly. Bochy managed 12 years in San Diego, quit to take the job in San Fran, then tacked on three more before winning his first in his fourth year there.

   18. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 05, 2018 at 02:40 PM (#5721298)
The closest comparators for Scioscia would seem to be Lou Piniella, Jim Leyland & Ralph Houk, none of whom are in the HoF. That might not be the last word for Leyland, who been retired since 2010, and Piniella, out since 2013, but the verdict seems to be in for Houk, who did win two World Series.
   19. dlf Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5721313)
I don't think any of those three are all that great since they all bounced around a lot with Pinella having five managerial jobs, Houk four cities including two separate terms for the Yanks, and Leyland four jobs. The problem with looking for comps to Scioscia is there just aren't folks in the last half century with that kind of longevity at one place and I think that being associated with one place helps in HOF discussions. But as long as we are looking for comps from the numbers alone, I'm not sure what Whitey Herzog, Leo Durocher, or Al Lopez bring to the dance that Scioscia doesn't. And the latter of those three has, very broadly speaking, a similar playing career - a reputation of a great tough defensive catcher; Lopez lasted forever while Scioscia didn't, but the more recent player was the better of the two before becoming manager.

Anyway ol' Mike has called the reports "poppycock" so we may be putting this discussion off for a while.
   20. QLE Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5721316)
would Gil HOdges be a better comparison?


Not really- Hodges' HOF case was one where people were using his career as a manager as something that supplemented his playing career, whereas for Scioscia it would be the reverse at best. The BBWAA votes probably serve as a good case in point- Hodges received 24.1% his first time on the ballot (which was before the 1969 Mets could have served as an influence for anyone's vote), while Scioscia appears not even to have been placed on the ballot.
   21. Voodoo Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5721319)
I think winning in multiple places is more impressive than doing so in one place. Granted if you win MANY TIMES at one place, you go into the Hall, even if you didn't win at other stops, but I think Piniella and Leyland have much more impressive careers than Scioscia, even if they have the same number of titles. Hell, Dusty Baker, sans a championship, had a better managing career, too, IMO.

The only thing Scioscia has over those other guys is that he hasn't been ####-canned*, but that seems more a function of good fortune, though I suppose he gets credit for never truly having an awful season. Looking at his managerial record, the Angels' 2002 through 2009 was an impressive stretch of winning, probably a longer stretch of sustained success than the aforementioned managers, so there's that too. It seems like he could have easily been fired after 2013 or 2016, though.

*actually looking it up, I'm not sure Leyland was ever fired and Piniella only once, by Billy Martin (or maybe twice, both by Martin, depending on who you ask).
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5721321)
Is Joe Girardi the #1 candidate for any not-awful managerial jobs?

he'll be managing the Cardinals in 2019.

there, I said it
   23. dlf Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5721323)
#21 - There aren't many managers in the history of the game that I'd pick ahead of Walter Alston - that he set such high expectations and continued to meet them year after year, at least to me, is more impressive than a Dusty Baker or Billy Martin who comes in, builds up from a mess, then leaves, usually involuntarily.
   24. BDC Posted: August 05, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5721325)
I'm not sure what Whitey Herzog, Leo Durocher, or Al Lopez bring to the dance that Scioscia doesn't


All three – like Piniella and Leyland – had success with more than one organization, often credited with turning teams around.

As people have been saying, Scioscia's being a longterm one-club manager is a bit odd in any era, and makes it harder to detach his own abilities from those of his players and front office. That's a knock on Ralph Houk, for instance: he won titles immediately, after being handed the greatest dynasty ever built, and never won thereafter, anywhere he managed.

Unless you're overqualified, like Walter Alston or Earl Weaver, being a one-club manager may not be all that indicative of skill, for better or worse. At least it makes it harder to argue. For Scioscia it could go either way. Making seven postseasons with almost unlimited resources is maybe not great. Making seven while your team used its resources to stock up on Gary Matthews Jr, Vernon Wells, Albert Pujols, Josh Hamilton, etc. etc. may be a miracle :)

Coke to Voodoo
   25. McCoy Posted: August 05, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5721347)
At least with whitey and leo you knew there was a coach with a baseball mind. Sciosia inthe beginning kind of had that rep but since that great start I don't know if many people have praised his baseball smarts.
   26. dlf Posted: August 05, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5721358)
I don't disagree with #25, but would point out that often a manager is at his best when he gets the hell out of the way and doesn't over manage. I don't follow west coast games very much and am an AL fan so I couldn't say whether or not that is a strength or weakness in this case. But I think there are too many, including Leo and Whitey, who come from the Paul Richards 'don't worry boys, I'll think of something' school who make the game about them.
   27. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 05, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5721394)
Wasn't that Chuck Dressen - “Keep it close, boys, and I’ll think of something”?
   28. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: August 05, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5721397)
I’ve always heard it attributed to Dressen, too. I think Boys of Summer may have ascribed it to him?
   29. Walt Davis Posted: August 05, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5721402)
Scioscia replaces Martinez in DC?
   30. dlf Posted: August 05, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5721408)
#27 & 28 - You are probably correct. I was trying to go by memory and conflated a couple of notorious me-first managers.
   31. McCoy Posted: August 05, 2018 at 06:05 PM (#5721412)
Don't disagree but you tend to get in the hall as a manager by being larger than life.

Walter Alston is about the only one I can think of that was not and I only think that because I know next to nothing about him.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 05, 2018 at 06:10 PM (#5721413)
#21 - There aren't many managers in the history of the game that I'd pick ahead of Walter Alston - that he set such high expectations and continued to meet them year after year, at least to me, is more impressive than a Dusty Baker or Billy Martin who comes in, builds up from a mess, then leaves, usually involuntarily.

What are we talking about? One year, do or die (like in The Natural)? I'll take Billy Martin. Long term? Probably Stengel, McCarthy, or McGraw.
   33. Bote Man the walk-off king Posted: August 05, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5721414)
Salt Lake Bees @SaltLakeBees
Call up! Bees Manager Keith Johnson will be joining the @Angels Major League coaching staff. Effective today, Angels Special Assistant Eric Chavez will assume managerial responsibilities for the Bees through the conclusion of the 2018 season.

Cockpoppy!
   34. Walt Davis Posted: August 05, 2018 at 09:00 PM (#5721456)
Walter Alston is about the only one I can think of that was not and I only think that because I know next to nothing about him.

In the overlap of my baseball-watching youth and Alston's managerial career, he was about as lackluster as you get, at least in terms of public persona. From his Wiki page: Becoming immediately known for his quiet nature, Alston was sometimes referred to as "The Quiet Man" ... Alston commented on his approach, saying, "I never criticized a player for a mistake on the spot. Whenever I got steamed up about something, I always wanted to sleep on it and face the situation with a clear head."[19] Sportswriter Jim Murray said that Alston was "the only guy in the game who could look Billy Graham right in the face without blushing and who would order corn on the cob in a Paris restaurant."

Also ... Alston is also credited with helping to break down the barriers for female sports journalists. On October 1, 1974, after the Los Angeles Dodgers defeated the Houston Astros to clinch the NL Pennant at the Houston Astrodome, he invited Anita Martini to the post-game press conference in the locker room. She became the first female journalist allowed in any major league locker room.

This article tells you more than you ever wanted to know about managerial ejections and Alston is credited with a career 84 eject+ although it notes that he (and apparently most managers) get ejected less often with age which is when I would have seen him. Billy Martin was at 156 which is only 14th of the 45 managers looked at. Still, in most ways, at least by that time, Alston was pretty much the opposite of Martin, at least in public persona.
   35. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5721473)
Scioscia will have lasted 16 years in the same job without winning a title. When was the last time a manager lasted that long without winning or getting fired? Bobby Cox spent 15 seasons in Atlanta after their WS championship. I'm guessing you have to go back to Connie Mack.

Who has even lasted 16 straight years with one team?

Scioscia (19th year with the Angels)
Cox (20 years with Atlanta)
LaRussa (16 years with the Cards)
Sparky Anderson (16 years with Detroit)
Lasorda (19.5 years with the Dodgers)
Alston (23 years with the Dodgers)
Clarke (16 years with the Pirates)
Mack (50 years with the A's)
McGraw (29 years with the Giants)
W. Robinson (18 years with the Dodgers)
Anson (19 years with the Cubs)
(Joe McCarthy had 15+ years with the Yankees, but it rounds down to 15)

So, yeah - it is the longest pennant-less stretch any manager has had without losing his job since Connie Mack.

That said, 19 years on the job - only five guys ever lasted longer, and they're all easy Hall of Famers. Everyone listed above is actually a Hall of Famer. OK, Clarke and Anson are both in as players - but both also were at one point the all-time leader in career managerial wins.

Longest stretch with one team and not entered into Cooperstown? Tom Kelly.
   36. Dennis Eclairskey, closer Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5721474)
The closest comparators for Scioscia would seem to be Lou Piniella, Jim Leyland & Ralph Houk, none of whom are in the HoF. That might not be the last word for Leyland, who been retired since 2010, and Piniella, out since 2013, but the verdict seems to be in for Houk, who did win two World Series.

Leyland has three pennants so that helps his case some & gets a lot of credit for turning the Pirates & Tigers around
When MLB network did a special on him they acted like him eventually going in the Hall was pretty much a foregone conclusion

I don't think Scioscia has done enough, he won the WS to much fanfare but the Trout years have been bittersweet

I feel like a borderline HOF player can benefit more from a slight push from a managerial career than a borderline mgr from a decent playing career like Hodges mgr career helps him in my eyes more than Dusty Baker's playing career helps him as a mgr HOF candidate later on
   37. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5721486)
At least with whitey and leo you knew there was a coach with a baseball mind. Sciosia inthe beginning kind of had that rep but since that great start I don't know if many people have praised his baseball smarts.

Those early-2000s Angels teams were built similar to Herzog's Redbirds, too. Solid starting pitching & a great bullpen. Solid lineup that didn't strike out that much & stole a lot of bases. (OK, his teams didn't steal nearly as many as Herzog's did, but they still stole a lot).

Wasn't that Chuck Dressen - “Keep it close, boys, and I’ll think of something”?

Yes. From memory, it's usually ascribed to his time running the Reds in the 1930s, but it's also been placed in his Dodger tenure as well.

Don't disagree but you tend to get in the hall as a manager by being larger than life.

Yup. Personality definitely helps. Look at Wilbert Robinson, for instance. Probably the worst manager in Cooperstown. Tommy Lasorda was helped by this, too.

Walter Alston is about the only one I can think of that was not and I only think that because I know next to nothing about him.

Al Lopez & Bill McKechnie. I mean, if you win enough, the VC overlooks the personality stuff.

What are we talking about? One year, do or die (like in The Natural)? I'll take Billy Martin.

The irony is that Billy Martin's teams almost always died in the playoffs. He was all about today, and he only won one world title. For a short-term guy, that's not good.
   38. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 05, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5721491)
Also ... Alston is also credited with helping to break down the barriers for female sports journalists. On October 1, 1974, after the Los Angeles Dodgers defeated the Houston Astros to clinch the NL Pennant at the Houston Astrodome, he invited Anita Martini to the post-game press conference in the locker room.
Are we sure that was intentional, though? He might have just been asking for a celebratory drink.
   39. OCF Posted: August 06, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5721528)
A comparison I haven't seen yet in this thread: Red Schoendienst. Red was a good player, like Scioscia was a good player; Red had more WAR as a player (42.3 to 26.1), but a lot of that is the padding of a very long career, and part of the difference in career length is that Scioscia was a catcher. Red spent his entire managerial career with the same team (unlike Scioscia, the same team he played for), and was reasonably successful, including two pennants and one WS win.

Schoendienst is in the Hall of Fame. He was elected by the VC after his managerial career was essentially over. (They did keep calling him back when the team fired other managers, but not for long.) My gut feeling is that the VC thought they were electing him as a player - they were making a little too much of a lifetime .289 BA and a half-dozen or so .300 BA seasons. Neither Scioscia nor Schoendienst hit for power; Scoiscia did have a good OBP, but once he was on base, he ran like a catcher.
   40. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5721591)
Wow. Can’t believe he would be in hall conversation. His legacy will be failing to win with babe ruth in his lineup every night.


To be fair, the new Babe has only been with the Angels for one season, in the lineup about half the team's games, and hasn't pitched since June 6th.
   41. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5721592)
While the team has fallen apart recently, did anyone realize how hot Kole Calhoun has been? He was hitting like a bad pitcher early in the year. They finally put him on the DL and since he came back on June 18 has hit 289/358/641, 13 homers in 37 games and 162 PA.
   42. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5721594)
Remember when Mike Scioscia had the magic of winning close games and beating his pythag every year? I guess DiPoto used his Jedi powers to steal that power and bring it north.

Looking at runs/runs allowed Angels are not a contender, but at +24 they should be 59-54 instead of 55-58. Meanwhile Seattle has been outscored on the season, by 19 runs yet has a 64-48 record.

In the completely irrelevant Pythagorean standings the East and Central are all the same, Astros would have a much bigger lead (16 games), Angels would only be 3 back of Oakland for WC#2, and Seattle would be barely ahead of last place Texas.
   43. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5721603)
Scioscia's record is not much different than his mentor Tommy Lasorda. Tommy has 21 years to Mike's 19, but two of those are partial seasons (including just 4 games in 1976) and 3 are strike shortened, so Mike actually has more wins. Mike leads .536-.526 in winning percentages, and both have 7 playoff appearances. Tommy's edge is having one more WS title (and Mike was his catcher in both of those seasons).

Looking at managers with similar tenure, winning%, playoff appearances, and between 0-2 WS titles the HOF comps are:

Lasorda
Dick Williams
Whitey Herzog

Non-HOF:
Piniella
Leyland
Ralph Houk

So far at least, one or two of these guys might make it, it's not going to happen for Houk.

Still active or presumably not retired:
Dusty Baker
Terry Francona
Buck Showalter

By historical standards Scioscia is about as on the borderline as a HOF manager can be.
   44. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5721611)
Dick Williams

If for sake of argument you consider the 1967 Red Sox as being in the AL East, Williams is the only manager to have won division titles in all four original divisions: 1967 Red Sox; 1971-73 A's; 1981 Expos; and the 1984 Padres.

And with that I'll throw in a somewhat related trivia question: What non-HoFer** played for teams in all four divisions in the same year, and hit at least one home run while playing for each of them?

** When you think about it, it'd be hard to imagine any HoFer who got dumped by three different teams in the same year.
   45. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5721615)
While the team has fallen apart recently, did anyone realize how hot Kole Calhoun has been? He was hitting like a bad pitcher early in the year. They finally put him on the DL and since he came back on June 18 has hit 289/358/641, 13 homers in 37 games and 162 PA.


There are a couple of guys on the Blue Jays who did the same sort of thing.

Before May 20th's game, Kendrys Morales was batting .150/.239/.270. In the May 20th game, he pitched a shutout inning in relief.
From May 20th onward, he's has been batting .302/.374/.516.

Randal Grichuk got injured on April 29th, and went on the DL batting .106/.208/.227.
Since he came off the DL on June 1st, he's been batting .273/.324/.540
   46. SoSH U at work Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5721619)
And with that I'll throw in a somewhat related trivia question: What non-HoFer** played for teams in all four divisions in the same year, and hit at least one home run while playing for each of them?


Kong?
   47. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5721621)
Kong was my guess too, and is correct. He hit at least 2 for each team he played with in 1977. Only played 18 games in the AL for the Angels and Yankees but the stat line was the essence of Kingman: 60 AB, 6 HR, 29 K
   48. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5721622)
In the May 20th game, he pitched a shutout inning in relief.
From May 20th onward, he's has been batting .302/.374/.516.


He's their answer to Ohtani
   49. Bigotis49 Posted: August 06, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5721623)
Too lazy to check, but isn't there a significant difference in his winning percentage with Joe Maddon and without Joe Maddon? It seems like this was studied some years ago and there's at least an argument that Maddon was a big key to his success. And without Maddon he's just another manager.
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: August 06, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5721625)

Too lazy to check, but isn't there a significant difference in his winning percentage with Joe Maddon and without Joe Maddon? It seems like this was studied some years ago and there's at least an argument that Maddon was a big key to his success. And without Maddon he's just another manager.


No. He's been slightly better WP wise since Maddon left.
   51. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 06, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5721647)
Scioscia's record is not much different than his mentor Tommy Lasorda. Tommy has 21 years to Mike's 19, but two of those are partial seasons (including just 4 games in 1976) and 3 are strike shortened, so Mike actually has more wins. Mike leads .536-.526 in winning percentages, and both have 7 playoff appearances. Tommy's edge is having one more WS title (and Mike was his catcher in both of those seasons).


So... 9.65 dogs? Do we round up for Managerial HoF voting?

Seriously, though - just goes to show how much good PR helps. I'd have never thought their records were so close.
   52. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 06, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5721658)
While the team has fallen apart recently, did anyone realize how hot Kole Calhoun has been? He was hitting like a bad pitcher early in the year. They finally put him on the DL and since he came back on June 18 has hit 289/358/641, 13 homers in 37 games and 162 PA.

Doesn't the failure to DL Calhoun earlier reflect poorly on his manager? No Hall of Fame for Scioscia!
   53. Rally Posted: August 06, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5721669)
Doesn't the failure to DL Calhoun earlier reflect poorly on his manager?


He wasn't injured or at least not obviously injured early in the season. While his hitting stunk, he was playing great defense in right field, which is not something I would expect a hurt player to be able to do. When he was placed on the DL, the story we got was a strained oblique, which occurred just before the DL placement. If he had an oblique strain earlier than that I doubt he would have been able to play strong outfield defense.

We never get the full story but my guess as to what happened is that the time off due to injury allowed him to reset himself mentally.
   54. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: August 06, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5721695)
This probably reveals my shameful failure to watch Ken Burns or other documentaries, but how do you pronounce "Houk"?

And does that pronunciation also apply to Herman Wouk?
   55. OCF Posted: August 06, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5721701)
but how do you pronounce "Houk"?

Like "how" with a k on then end. At least that's how I always heard it.
   56. bunyon Posted: August 06, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5721714)
HOF for Sciosia? Really? One WS. One pennant. Lots of Ls with for having an all-time great in his prime.

I think Sciosia gets too much crap from thinking fans but putting him in the HOF would be a dramatic overcompensation.
   57. Walt Davis Posted: August 06, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5721892)
And I've always heard Wouk pronounced as Woke ... but then I'm pretty sure I haven't heard it in over 30 years.
   58. BDC Posted: August 06, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5721921)
Herman Wouk, several years older than the late Ralph Houk, is still alive.
   59. Hank Gillette Posted: August 06, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5722072)
Herman Wouk, several years older than the late Ralph Houk, is still alive.


Wouk is 103, and had a book published in 2016.
   60. Sunday silence Posted: August 07, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5722151)
speaking of which, Kirk Douglas is 102, Olivia DeHavilland is 101. But the question is:

Who is the longest lived famous person?
   61. BDC Posted: August 07, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5722160)
Jacques Barzun lived to be 104. Maybe not a household name in the US, but famous for two things: he said "Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball," and he and I once had articles in the same issue of a magazine.
   62. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: August 07, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5722393)
Madame Chiang Kai-Shek lived to be 105 years old. She wasn't just Chiang's wife but one of his most skilled advisers - and really good at winning international support for his regime.

Rose Kennedy died at age 104.
   63. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 07, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5722397)
George Burns made it to 100, John Wooden to 99. Roger Angell is 97 and still writing.
   64. SoSH U at work Posted: August 07, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5722414)
Did Sunday mean the celebrity who lived the longest, or the person who lived the longest as a celebrity? For example, Shirley Temple died just short of 86, but virtually all of that time was as a celeb (though Olivia de Haviland, to name one, would still have her beat).

   65. QLE Posted: August 07, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5722442)
George Abbott, legendary Broadway director/writer/producer, made it to 107- however, he isn't in contention for longest time as a celebrity, as he didn't have his full breakthrough into prominence until he was in his late thirties.
   66. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 07, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5722616)
he and I once had articles in the same issue of a magazine.


PMLA?
   67. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 07, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5722621)
Who is the longest lived famous person?


Methuselah.
   68. Rally Posted: August 07, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5722625)
Julio Franco?
   69. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 07, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5722685)
Let's not overlook Andy, BBTF's own centenarian, still going strong.
   70. Sunday silence Posted: August 07, 2018 at 07:27 PM (#5722724)
I had Madame Chiang Kai shek at 106 going by memory..had not heard of mr. Abbot I wonder if there's someone else?

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