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1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 05, 2010 at 09:47 PM (#3454923)And in March, guys get hurt or look overmatched. I think Johnny's best bet at this point is to wait til mid-March.
So does he deserve $3 million, or is he lucky to get that?
Or is a baseball exec just anonymously sniping at Boras?
Giants as well.
I'd love to see it, but I just don't see it unless they can dump Cordero on someone, and I don't think they want to trade him yet.
There are plenty of teams where he'd improve LF or DH.
You are probably right, but given where the team is and its personnel/management team, I would prefer Damon to the Dickerson/Balentien or Gomes platoon that I expect we will see. The team is short on both pop and OBP, and Damon, (perhaps a slightly angry I'll-show-'em Damon) on a one-year deal with incentives, would provide some of both. The Reds would still need Stubbs and Bruce to take some big steps forward to a have a legit offense, but I think adding Damon would be a good move.
There is no way Bengie Molina is going to earn more money playing Major League Baseball than Johnny Damon will in 2010.
DB
To be honest though, I'm kinda glad. They have been overpaid for a long time. Replacement value is a concept that is slowly starting to seep into many front offices.
That said, Damon is well above replacement value and could help a lot of teams. I can think of a few contenders that could use him.
One problem is that nobody wants to sign long-term contracts which are not also big $$$/year. I bet there are teams that would sign Orlando Hudson for four years and $5M per year, but he would rather get $5M for one year because his agent says the market will get better soon.
This. I think a lot of teams are up against their 2010 budgets but have a lot of money coming off the books next year, when many of the contracts from the 2005-2007 spending orgy expire. I've read of many players rejecting two year deals that are heavily backloaded in favor of money now and a chance to get a better deal next winter.
White Sox, Mets (put Bay at 1B), Braves, Marlins, Giants, Mariners, A's, Angels just off the top of my head.
Is Juan Francisco ready for the ML and could he play LF until Rolen disintegrates into a pile of detached limbs?
Is there any indication he's willing to go down that far, yet?
I said "contenders."
he loudly and publicly retired, the best offer was "insulting", he didn't care what teams thought he was worth, we wasn't going to play for less than what HE thought he was worth.
The spec is more that Votto will move there when Yonder Alonso is ready, which may or not be this year. Given that the team's lineup is projected to be peak, old, or past-peak guys, save for Stubbs and Bruce, I think Damon makes sense. The Reds are not a young team.
Torrealba signed with the Pads today, somewhere around $1.5, with a mutual option for next year at $3.5. I think Omar's done...
Is there any indication he's willing to go down that far, yet?
No. But Hudson just signed for $5 million after looking for $9M all winter long. I'm guessing Damon get about that if he signs before March...
Operation Shutdown?
Wikipedida:
I thought he had kids to feed?
As an aside, I always thought that Spreewell got a bad rap for that remark. He had to have been kidding.
They all talk like that during the offseason. Once those paychecks should be rolling in, though, things change.
If his Chone projections hold up, Johnny's worth more than $11 million (in WAR). Each of his last 4 seasons have been consistent in that respect. However, I have a feeling, at age 36, he's on the precipice of his end-of-career decline and won't live up to that projection. And to that end, I offer a Figgins Quatrain, sung off-key in the voice of a drunk Bob Dylan:
That's if you accept Fangraphs' ability to properly price players. I'm not so sure.
/Sabean acts like he's playing with Canadian dollars
/Was funnier when 1$CN = $US0.50
Torreabla just signed with Pods for $1.5. There is no way Molina is worth $3M more.
Given that there are no indications that any other team is offering close to this much, I think it is in the best interest of the Yankees to continue to wait. Why pay an above market rate for his age 37 (2011) season, when no one is even willing to offer as much for this coming year? Damon is backed into a corner and is looking at a deal similar to what Abreu took last season (1/5). The longer he waits... well, the longer he waits.
Didn't Ewing say that? If so, that's an incredibly bum rap for Spreewell.
Report: This 'Report' is asinine.
"No, you idiot, I said five-iron. Wait, this club isn't even clean!"
Sort of sounds like Kenny Lofton, though you're underselling him on career accomplishments, and as I recall the issue was that no team would give him both $3M and a starting job.
So I read this, and was moved to inquire as to whether 'bum wrap' or 'bad wrap' is more correct. In fact, I wondered if it was some matter of person or tense totally beyond my scope of knowledge. Nope: 'bad wrap' is the current styling of 'bum wrap', which is a progression of the old usage for 'rap', a word that had badness already in its definition back when it started to be a litigious term rather than just meaning 'to strike someone'.
I'm pretty sure it was Sprewell.
I thought Ewing's line was something like "Sure we make a lot of money but we spend a lot of money".
It's rap, not wrap. The origin of the term "bad rap" is a bit interesting. It comes from the sense of rap meaning "punishment." Here is confirmation of that: That said, this would be a "bad wrap."
Spreewell is also currently broke.
Whew
Given that there are no indications that any other team is offering close to this much, I think it is in the best interest of the Yankees to continue to wait. Why pay an above market rate for his age 37 (2011) season, when no one is even willing to offer as much for this coming year? Damon is backed into a corner and is looking at a deal similar to what Abreu took last season (1/5). The longer he waits... well, the longer he waits.
The problem with this is that we have no way of knowing whether or not "any other team is offering close to this much," or whether any other team might do so in the near future. My point is that for that Yankees, at least, Damon is** worth 2 / 14, and if some other team signs him for less just because the Yanks are playing poker, it'll turn out to have been a dumb move---and for what? To save what to the Yankees is essentially chump change. Just because the Angels happened to find Abreu sitting out there for $5 M in 2009 doesn't mean that Damon is going to be sitting out there this year come Spring Training.
**what Damon is "worth" to a team without the Yankees' financial resources (or park configuration) is not necessarily what he is worth to the Yankees. And 2 / 14 for someone with Damon's age, general good health, and recent track record is not exactly that big of a risk.
I don't think it's so much a "risk" as just a bad allocation of funds. The Yankees have great hitting 1-8, why not throw a few guys at LF and see if anyone can win the job on the cheap?
Yet they can probably get equivalent production, defense included, from Gardner and Winn.
So, where's the risk?
Jay Leno is the bigger 'cockwad'?
Yet they can probably get equivalent production, defense included, from Gardner and Winn.
So, where's the risk?
I had to read that twice in order to believe that I read it. Much as I respect Gardner's range and love to watch him on the bases, he's a banjo hitter whose value is that of a cheap late inning defensive replacement and stolen base threat. Randy Winn's offensive numbers speak for themselves (he ain't no Nick Swisher), and his defense can't close the gap between him and Damon any more than Gardner's can.
Damon has two major disadvantages: His arm and his salary. His arm isn't that big of a factor in left field, and the Yanks can afford him. I just don't see the point of all this poker playing. Christ, you'd think that we're talking about a 5 / 50 contract with the Royals instead of 2 / 14 with the Yankees. This is all about stupid egos on both sides, and little more than that.
he loudly and publicly retired, the best offer was "insulting", he didn't care what teams thought he was worth, we wasn't going to play for less than what HE thought he was worth."
Shea Hillebrand?
Look, generally I'd rather cut the cord on a guy early, rather than risk holding the bag for too long. If we're talking about the return of 2009 Johnny, it's a no-brainer. But that guy ain't walkin' through the door. And I'm just not all that sure that in 2011 he'll be worth a roster spot, let alone $7 million.
Unbelievably, I meant to write 'rap'. I use my first post in this thread as a defense. I have no idea why I wrote 'wrap'. Just one of those things. I've had a lot of those today... Wrote 'an hundred' when I meant 'a hundred'. Ugh.
The site from which I learned whether to use 'bad' or 'bum' choose to spell out the definition more in the OED style, finding a quote from a 1540s litigator going on about how he'd 'rap out an oath', then following the changes from there.
Oops. Supposedly Torrealba and the Rockies were very close to a 2 yr $5.6M deal but Torrealba decided to look elsewhere.
There were 15 men who played a minimum of 400 innings in the American League in 2009. They fall into 4 categories, based on UZR/150. Johnny Damon is not in the worst group. Delmon Young, Carlos Quentin and Adam Lind were significantly worse. On the other hand, Damon is a lot closer to the worst than he is the best:
The Good
Carl Crawford Rays 17.5
Denard Span Twins 16.7
Juan Rivera Angels 16.6
David DeJesus Royals 15.7
Ryan Raburn Tigers 11.1
Matt Holliday Athletics 10.6
The Mediocre
David Murphy Rangers 0.6
Travis Snider Blue Jays 0.1
Scott Podsednik White Sox -5.3
The Bad
Jason Bay Red Sox LF -11.2
Johnny Damon Yankees -12.1
Nolan Reimold Orioles -17.3
The Ugly
Adam Lind Blue Jays -24.4
Carlos Quentin White Sox -25.4
Delmon Young Twins -25.6
Ewing was a great player, hence he was never offered a shitty contract.
If so, that's an incredibly bum rap for Spreewell.
#### Sprewell, he deserves anything anyone says about him. Especially the #### that's true.
Spreewell is also currently broke.
Good
Jay Leno is the bigger 'cockwad'?
Bigger than Spree? Hmm. I suppose so. It's not undebatable, however.
That's a joke right?
What we have here is simply a player and an agent who badly misread the market and are now currently pricing themselves out of the league.
I mean, $11M???
Seriously...?
Fish: "It seems unusual that there are only three players that you can reasonably call average."
Maybe someone who knows UZR far better than I do could give you an informed answer to that observation, Fish, but I think it might have to do with the fact that weaker outfielders get put in LF and centerfielders tend to roam over to left-center and snag balls that are in the left fielder's zone.
If you're using UZR/150, then the only way that that could be the cause is if a number of CFers do this significantly more than others, as if they all do it a lot/some/none, then the expected outs for LF would reflect and therefore not change anything. Even if some do it considerably more than others, it wouldn't be all in-zone LF balls (and given this is BIS zones, keep in mind that OF zones are figured each year with in-zone being >50%) that create an effect. Only in-zone LF balls caught by the CF that would have otherwise been caught by that LF are going to be moving numbers.
I think it's more easily explained by the first part of your answer plus some. Left field is manned by outfielders who can't play center and without the arm to play right. The key is why they can't play center, which will either be because they're slow or get terrible jumps (they're bad) or because their team has a better guy for center. In the latter case, they're average/good CFers moved left on the defensive spectrum. There's your dichotomy.
I guess this is crazy but look at what Abreu got when he reupped at the end of the season.
Damon, it turns out, was done in by the Granderson trade. If that's not made and the Yanks aren't able to get Cameron either, the Yanks are probably a lot more desperate for Damon. It seems that Boras and Damon misread how much leverage they lost when the Yanks picked up Granderson.
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