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Monday, October 14, 2019

Report: Phillies to interview Dusty Baker for managerial position

Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune reports that former MLB skipper and current Giants advisor Dusty Baker is slated to interview for the Phillies’ managerial opening.

The Phillies parted ways with manager Gabe Kapler last week after the team finished the 2019 season with an 81-81 record, good for second-to-last place in the NL East division. Unsurprisingly, the organization is seeking a skipper that can help shepherd the team through a winning season and a playoff run; as GM Matt Klentak told reporters on Friday, “We’re looking for someone who’s going to appreciate the staff we have and the things that we do, and come in and take us over the finish line because that’s what this is really about. This is about wins and losses and getting us where we want to be — and that’s playing in October, competing for a championship.”

 

 

QLE Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:29 AM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dusty baker, managerial search, phillies

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   1. TomH Posted: October 14, 2019 at 06:37 AM (#5890287)
Former Philadelphian Connie Mack is also out of a job at the moment.
   2. PreservedFish Posted: October 14, 2019 at 06:37 AM (#5890288)
Superb. Do it.
   3. Esoteric Posted: October 14, 2019 at 06:56 AM (#5890289)
No sarcasm: Dusty would be a great fit for the Phillies and would do a fine job.
   4. PreservedFish Posted: October 14, 2019 at 07:12 AM (#5890290)
He's so old!
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:12 AM (#5890307)
70 does seem to be pushing it to be an effective manager. Has anyone successfully started a managerial stint at that age?
   6. TJ Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:22 AM (#5890309)
At least Dusty's son Darren is big enough now to look after himself if he's the batboy for a Phillies World Series run...
   7. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:23 AM (#5890310)
70 does seem to be pushing it to be an effective manager. Has anyone successfully started a managerial stint at that age?
Jack McKeon was 73 when he took over the Marlins and won the 2003 World Series.

EDIT: You could argue that McKeon broke Dontrelle Willis, which would be a strike against him. But no one would ever accuse Dusty of doing anything similar.
   8. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:24 AM (#5890311)
The NL East is officially on notice: the Phillies are making a major push for the 2004 World Series.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:32 AM (#5890316)
Jack McKeon was 73 when he took over the Marlins and won the 2003 World Series.

He was a mid-season replacement, correct?
   10. PreservedFish Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:37 AM (#5890319)
I don't think that 70 is too old to choose the best 9 guys and just let them do their thing. He'd probably be better at that than Kapler was actually.

What about the newfangled trends of managing? Modern bullpen managing isn't terribly complex. Usually you just try and give your best relievers clean innings. That's simple. Shifting isn't really that important, probably, and he could delegate that to some other coach anyway. They don't need to mess with openers and bullpen games if they don't want to.

   11. SoSH U at work Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:46 AM (#5890322)
I don't think that 70 is too old to choose the best 9 guys and just let them do their thing.


Per Dag's work, managers do tend to lose effectiveness as they hit this age (or earlier, even). But Dusty was doing good work as recently as two years ago, and this seems like the kind of set up that plays to his strengths, so I'd be willing to roll the dice if I were the Phils.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5890326)
I don't think that 70 is too old to choose the best 9 guys and just let them do their thing. He'd probably be better at that than Kapler was actually.

What about the newfangled trends of managing? Modern bullpen managing isn't terribly complex. Usually you just try and give your best relievers clean innings. That's simple. Shifting isn't really that important, probably, and he could delegate that to some other coach anyway. They don't need to mess with openers and bullpen games if they don't want to.


I agree that he's likely up to it mentally. I was more wondering about the physical side. Working nights, not getting to sleep until well past midnight most nights, travelling frequently: that can wear on anyone, but I'd guess most 70 y.o.'s will suffer more than most 40-50 y.o.'s.

If you're physically worn down, you're less likely to make good decisions, or be able to handle the personalities in the clubhouse.
   13. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5890329)
70 does seem to be pushing it to be an effective manager. Has anyone successfully started a managerial stint at that age?

McKeon's pretty much it.

Guys typically finish around this age. Toore & Cox were done at age 69. La Russa a few years earlier. Piniella also in his late 60s. Ditto Jim Leyland.

Frank Robinson was 70 in his last season. Felipe Alou was 71. Both had their last good teams at age 69, though. Connie Mack, of course, lasted forever - but his 2nd glory run ended at age 70. Casey Stengel got fired by the Yankees when he turned 70. Oh, and Davey Johnson managed the Nats from ages 68-70.

But I can see Baker doing good - just that he shouldn't be a long turn guy, for obvious reasons. It's old for a new hire, but it could be an advantage that he's taken some time off. That's a bit of time to recharge And the Phillies are in clear win-now mode. Baker's a guy who can hopefully get them over the hump for right now. If it helps, Baker is a rather "young" 70. If he was born a few weeks later, he'd have his age 69 season coming up.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5890331)
If you're physically worn down, you're less likely to make good decisions, or be able to handle the personalities in the clubhouse.


True, but we already know that Dusty is pretty good at managing personalities, which makes even a diminished Dusty an arguably safer bet than an unknown.
   15. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5890335)
But Dusty was doing good work as recently as two years ago, and this seems like the kind of set up that plays to his strengths, so I'd be willing to roll the dice if I were the Phils.

Totally agree. Like the Nats a few years ago (who most likely overreacted in not keeping him around), this would be a great situation for him and he most assuredly help them.
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5890370)
Casey Stengel got fired by the Yankees when he turned 70.
After 10 Pennants & 7 World Series Wins in 12 years, even, but that was before the ADEA was enacted. Stengel did manage the Mets afterwards, if that counts.
   17. Zonk isn't Defacing the Nation Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5890372)
He'd probably be a good match for them...

   18. DFA Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5890378)
70 is too old to be a manager but not too old to be President!
   19. The Duke Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5890383)
If you hire dusty, isn’t the goal that you are only one or two steps away ? Feels like the Phils are a couple years away from dominance. What is the goal with Baker, a 5-7 year run? An interim 2 year run and train somebody else ? 70 doesn’t seem old but 73-74 does
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5890385)
After 10 Pennants & 7 World Series Wins in 12 years, even, but that was before the ADEA was enacted.

Stengel was fired because he inexplicably started Art Ditmar in G1 of the 1960 World Series, instead of Whitey Ford. Ford threw 18 shutout innings in that series, and he and his teammates were of the strong opinion that Stengel cost them the series by not starting Ford games 1, 4, and 7. The players basically revolted, and the front office obviously took the players' side.
   21. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 14, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5890404)
Modern bullpen managing isn't terribly complex I don't pretend to know the optimal bullpen management approach, but if someone has captured the do this but not that stuff please share. Mostly I see the smart teams loading up on relievers thinking half will be great and half will suck and hopefully that shakes out by July with the manager throwing everyone into the games to push the process along. So if by that you mean it's not complex then yes, agreed.
   22. jingoist Posted: October 14, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5890413)
To follow up on dfa’s post #18, I find it a bit ironic that there is an age debate around managing a baseball team at age 70 when our incumbent is 73 and the 3 leading Democratic candidates are all 70 and older. Joe would be 78 and Bernie almost 80 were they elected.
I guess running America is less grueling than an mlb team
   23. Walt Davis Posted: October 14, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5890421)
Or it is a bad idea to have a President aged 70 much less pushing 80.

Looking up the Wikis ...

WH Harrison was the first "old" president (68), he lasted 31 days.
Taylor was 64, 100 days ... he lasted less than 1.5 years
Buchanan was nearly 66 and lasted all 4 years ... and left the country on the brink of Civil War

Nobody aged even 60 was elected for a long-time ... the next "old" guy ...

Truman was 60 when he took over and 64 when elected.
Ike was 66 at 2nd election

... so those were both incumbents

Reagan was 69, setting the record at the time. Rumors of "pre-dementia" in his 2nd term seem unfounded but there's evidence he may have been wearing down.
Bush I was 64
Now Trump

So at least the old ones these days are surviving their terms. And Dems might want to notice that the recent old farts have all been Repubs and not nominate Biden.
   24. SoSH U at work Posted: October 14, 2019 at 06:02 PM (#5890443)
To follow up on dfa’s post #18, I find it a bit ironic that there is an age debate around managing a baseball team at age 70 when our incumbent is 73 and the 3 leading Democratic candidates are all 70 and older. Joe would be 78 and Bernie almost 80 were they elected. I guess running America is less grueling than an mlb team


A) If someone wants to write the definitive Evaluating U.S. Presidents the way Dag did with baseball managers, we may find that presidents are also less effective when they reach a certain age.

B) We have some data that the aforementioned supposition is true.

   25. Zonk isn't Defacing the Nation Posted: October 14, 2019 at 06:51 PM (#5890449)
I think everyone likes to imagine their teams new manger as someone who take the helm for a decade or more, win a few or more titles, and adjust their wish list accordingly.

The reality is that’s extremely rare for a manager to hit either of those marks.

Win a division or three... maybe pack in a title or at least a pennant or so.... that’s as good as it gets. Last ~5 years or so....

   26. Walt Davis Posted: October 14, 2019 at 08:20 PM (#5890482)
FWIW (zilch), Harper had possibly his worst offensive season and his second-best offensive season under Dusty.

The bulk of Jay Bruce's career value came under Dusty in Cinci -- Bruce was a pretty consistent hitter with highly variable WARs due to highly variable Rfield. He collapsed as a hitter in his first two seasons away from Dusty, then bounced back. (But I assume Bruce is not back with the Phillies.) I don't notice any other connections with 2019 Phils.
   27. Jack Sommers Posted: October 15, 2019 at 12:21 AM (#5890597)
I just came for the Dusty Dice link. I'm so disappointed.
   28. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 15, 2019 at 09:32 AM (#5890632)
I think the baseball community has moved beyond the simplistic bashing of Dusty he received during his Cubs tenure.
   29. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 15, 2019 at 09:51 AM (#5890637)
I think the baseball community has moved beyond the simplistic bashing of Dusty he received during his Cubs tenure.


In totally unrelated news, remember the time he said that white players can't handle hot weather?
   30. Greg Pope Posted: October 15, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5890669)
I think the baseball community has moved beyond the simplistic bashing of Dusty he received during his Cubs tenure.

Not really, there's just no point in rehashing it. For example, I was going to post this:

---
I don't think that 70 is too old to choose the best 9 guys and just let them do their thing.

Yes, but Dusty is too Dusty to choose the best 9 guys. There's a reason F-Troop was coined.
---

But then I thought better of it.

On his merits, this is probably an ideal situation for Dusty. He comes into a team with talent and high expectations. It's what he's consistently done. His teams seem to then play up to their potential for a couple of years, which is probably all the Phillies are looking for at this point. His teams have mostly disappointed in the playoffs but I'm not sure if that can be placed on him or not.
   31. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 15, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5890699)

In totally unrelated news, remember the time he said that white players can't handle hot weather?


Yes, he has a habit of playing fetch with the media to keep them distracted. Is that news?
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5890701)
Yes, he has a habit of playing fetch with the media to keep them distracted.
Come on. You're going with "12-d chess" for that?
   33. Padraic Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5890702)
He's a perfect fit. If the team doesn't do well next year, Klentak and crew are likely out after 2020, so no up and coming manager would want this job. Dusty and Klentak can either win a WS by 2021, or the team probably starts completely fresh.
   34. stanmvp48 Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5890706)
I am guessing he would have Harper batting 5th and somebody like Odubel Herrera leading off
   35. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:44 PM (#5890713)
I am guessing he would have Harper batting 5th and somebody like Odubel Herrera leading off

When Dusty managed Harper with the Nats 2 years, Harper started 10 games in the 2nd spot and 42 hitting cleanup; he hit 3rd the rest of the time.
   36. RoyalFlush Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5890716)
Yes, he has a habit of playing fetch with the media to keep them distracted. Is that news?


LOL.
   37. Traderdave Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:04 PM (#5890722)
For a number of reasons I'd support an amendment with max age of 65 for a President to be inaugurated. I say that as a strong backer of 78 year old Mike Bloomberg (today back in the rumor mill).

In addition to the obvious concerns about being up to the job age/health/strength wise, and the decline that affects most people that age, there is also a desire to make a President live with the results of their administration for at lest some years after they leave. Hell, the Vatican has a cutoff for voting on a pope to make sure the Cardinals who choose him have to live with the result for at least a while.

EDIT: Yeah I know it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea.
   38. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5890727)
I would be in favor of Dusty being elected president. Sign me up.
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5890728)
What would a Dusty administration look like? Neifi Perez would probably be a decent enough Secretary of Defense, but under Dusty he'd be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

Secretary of State Jeff Kent.
   40. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5890729)
Barry Bonds: Head of FDA
J.T. Snow: Secretary of HHS
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5890731)
Surgeon General James Andrews, of course.
   42. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5890732)
Actually let's move Kent to Transportation. Jonathan Papelbon can be Sec of State.

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