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Tuesday, March 27, 2018

Report: Ronald Acuña turned down $30 million contract extension from Braves

He needs to stay healthy.

Arturo Marcano of ESPN Deportes reports that Braves outfield prospect Ronald Acuña turned down a $30 million contract extension from the Braves. This comes on the heels of recent extensions signed by Scott Kingery (six years, $24 million) and Ketel Marte (five years, $24 million).

Jim Furtado Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:26 AM | 118 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, ronald acuna

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   1. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5643553)
How long was the extension for?
   2. McCoy Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5643558)
He needs to stay healthy.

He needs to hit. Missing games is alright in terms of payday as long as you can hit.
   3. Rally Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5643569)
He definitely needs more seasoning in that department. In spring training he failed to get a hit in more than half of his at bats. Sure, his OPS of 1.247 sounds ground, but consider that is out of a possible 5.000.
   4. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5643573)
In spring training he failed to get a hit in more than half of his at bats.


He hit .237 against actual Major League pitching. He feasted on minor league arms.
   5. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5643580)
Ah-ha!

So he got sent down to work on his financial management skills...
   6. dlf Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5643613)
He hit .237 against actual Major League pitching.


In about 25 plate appearances. Willie Mays was 1 for his first 25. The Giants would have been better served sending him back to Minneapolis.

He feasted on minor league arms.


As he did in AAA, AA, A. Scouts have raved.

But sure, he went back because of his Spring Training performance when segregated between MLB and MiLB, something no one has ever looked at before trying to find a justification for the unjustifiable. Clearly has nothing to do with financial shenanigans. Rickey, if the Braves lynched Phil Niekro, Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn, and the ghost of Kid Nichols in the concourse in CF during the opening day ceremonies, you'd justify it as finally moving forward after too many years of homage to the past.

   7. wjones Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5643632)
But sure, he went back because of his Spring Training performance when segregated between MLB and MiLB, something no one has ever looked at before trying to find a justification for the unjustifiable. Clearly has nothing to do with financial shenanigans. Rickey, if the Braves lynched Phil Niekro, Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn, and the ghost of Kid Nichols in the concourse in CF during the opening day ceremonies, you'd justify it as finally moving forward after too many years of homage to the past.


Boy, if I'm Warren Spahn and they dig me back up only to be lynched, I'd sure be pissed! Especially since he'd probably want a tryout with someone as a back of rotation option.
   8. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5643639)
But sure, he went back because of his Spring Training performance when segregated between MLB and MiLB


No. He was sent down because he chose to bet on himself becoming a superstar rather than take the guaranteed money, and the team wanted 7 years of his services rather than 6. Nonetheless, Acuna's Spring Training numbers are somewhat misleading due to his facing mostly AA level pitching. His performance against the best of MLB was somewhat less than the 1250 OPS of his totals. As for small sample size, yes; it's spring training. Spring training stats don't matter.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5643651)
He was sent down because he chose to bet on himself becoming a superstar rather than take the guaranteed money, and the team wanted 7 years of his services rather than 6.

Which is a pretty clear violation of a good faith interpretation of the CBA. But, you can't prove it, so teams get to keep screwing over players.
   10. Rally Posted: March 27, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5643656)
Especially since he'd probably want a tryout with someone as a back of rotation option.


That seems a little extreme for a corpse that has been in the ground for almost 15 years. But he's a lefty, so zombie-Spahn could probably handle a loogy role. I wouldn't bring him in with men on base though. While in life Spahn shut down the running game pretty well but zombies are notoriously slow to the plate.
   11. bfan Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5643728)
This seems to be a foolish move to me. With $30,000,000.00, you start by buying a disability policy for the years after your contract, to cover injury risk. Assuming he is a Georgia resident, $30,000,000.00 is going to put him in the highest tax bracket, but say he keeps 60%, which is $18,000,000.00. Assuming he doesn't go Cespedes on car purchases, he has money for a very comfortable life, even if he sucks or is injured. If he turns out to be great, he has another contract at age 26, which allows him to make stupid car purchases to his heart's content. This covers your downside, with the cap on his upside being only barely relevant (if he is great, he makes a lot more on the back-end). If he turns this down, he can insure against injury (although that is an expensive policy at a league minimum salary), but not against his just not being good enough.

I always harken back to the Braves did this with McCann and Francoeur. McCann took the contract; Frenchie did not. i think Frenchie regrets that decision now, even without injury as a problem.
   12. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5643732)
Which is a pretty clear violation of a good faith interpretation of the CBA.


Is it? I have yet to see a clause that says as much. If the MLBPA doesn't like this they should hire a lawyer instead of sending Tony Clark next time.
   13. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5643733)
Mark Bowman is tweeting that this report is false. Who the hell knows anymore?
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5643734)
I always harken back to the Braves did this with McCann and Francoeur. McCann took the contract; Frenchie did not. i think Frenchie regrets that decision now, even without injury as a problem.

Francoeur still made almost $30M in his career. Delmon Young made $21M.

Unless he really can't play MLB ball, Acuna will make over $30M under almost any scenario. Career ending injuries for position players are very, very rare.

you start by buying a disability policy for the years after your contract, to cover injury risk.

No insurer is going to pay out major league star salaries if you get hurt. If they would, the premium would be well over the $30M he's going to get. The potential payout is $20M+ per year for 10+ years, with a huge moral hazard that the guy with the insurance probably doesn't eveb try to recover.

   15. Howie Menckel Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5643739)
I wonder if he could get insurance already making him a millionaire.

In the early 1990s, Bob Hurley was known for being the only possible lottery pick who didn't have insurance during his senior season. he made it through healthy, was a Kings lottery pick, collected tens of millions in guaranteed money - and nearly was killed in a car accident a month into his NBA career. timing is everything.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5643742)
I wonder if he could get insurance already making him a millionaire.

Probably. $1M isn't all that much money these days.

He could sell of 10% of his future earnings and get several million dollars, I'd think.
   17. bfan Posted: March 27, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5643775)
No insurer is going to pay out major league star salaries if you get hurt.


Insurance is just selected along a continuum, with pay-out based on premium you are willing to pay; no he does not get superstar money from insurance if he gets hurt, but I would guess he could get a policy that would pay out, say, $200,000.00 a year for 10 years, if he can no longer play baseball because of an injury. That would be a nice transition to go with his retained $18,000,000.00, if he took the $30,000,000.00.

Forget about buying the disability insurance now to cover injury risk if the premium is too high; it really does not change the analysis; each side is swapping certainty for risk, and at Acuna's stage in his career, that would seem to be an awfully good choice to make.
   18. JRVJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5643776)
I don't know Ronald Acuña's personal situation, but seeing as how he is from Venezuela and Venezuela has ceased to function as anything resembling a normal country, I'm a tad surprised that he didn't take this deal.

Phrased differently, Acuña is almost certainly going to be a Super Star. But he is also from a country that has completely gone to the dogs, so he doesn't have a realistic Plan B if he has a major accident (and I'm sorry, after Yordano Ventura, José Taveras and José Fernández, major, even life threatening accidents are a reality for some of these young hot shots).
   19. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5643779)
If $30M is the going rate for Ketel Marte and that Philly I'd never heard of, then $30M for the best prospect in baseball is an insult. I'd want at least $60M. I'd probably ask for $100M.
   20. wjones Posted: March 27, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5643782)
If $30M is the going rate for Ketel Marte and that Philly I'd never heard of, then $30M for the best prospect in baseball is an insult. I'd want at least $60M. I'd probably ask for $100M


It's call negotiating. It's fairly common in the industry.
   21. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5643805)
so he doesn't have a realistic Plan B if he has a major accident (and I'm sorry, after Yordano Ventura, José Taveras and José Fernández, major, even life threatening accidents are a reality for some of these young hot shots).

I'm not sure what good an extra $30M would do for Ventura, Taveras, or Fernandez.

And all three of those deaths were completely avoidable if the players involved didn't make shitty choices. If you're a young man with your head on straight you shouldn't pay $0.50 to insure yourself against dying by driving your speedboat into a pier while hopped up on coke and booze.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5643806)
Insurance is just selected along a continuum, with pay-out based on premium you are willing to pay; no he does not get superstar money from insurance if he gets hurt, but I would guess he could get a policy that would pay out, say, $200,000.00 a year for 10 years, if he can no longer play baseball because of an injury. That would be a nice transition to go with his retained $18,000,000.00, if he took the $30,000,000.00.

Forget about buying the disability insurance now to cover injury risk if the premium is too high; it really does not change the analysis; each side is swapping certainty for risk, and at Acuna's stage in his career, that would seem to be an awfully good choice to make.


I still say he'd be better off to sell 10% of his future MLB earnings on the market. Securitize yourself.

Some investor is going to pay several million dollars for that, because there's a real shot at $300M of career earnings.
   23. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5643808)
I'm not sure what good an extra $30M would do for Ventura, Taveras, or Fernandez.


I'm sure they have families.
   24. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5643809)
It's call negotiating. It's fairly common in the industry.


You don't understand man. They've INSULTED HIM!
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5643812)
I'm sure they have families.

And I'm sure, wherever they are, they don't really care that their families aren't filthy rich, instead of just comfortable.

They also could have bought $5M in term insurance for <$5,000 a year, if they wanted them to be richer. Death is very cheap to insure against if you're young and healthy.

edit: Wow, I was way high. $5M of 20-year Term for a healthy 25 y.o. male is $2,000 a year. No need to enter into a shitty arb/FA buyout.
   26. JRVJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5643818)
23, Exactly.
   27. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5643820)
And I'm sure, wherever they are, they don't really care that their families aren't filthy rich, instead of just comfortable.


First, this seems to be contradictory to your general "if you don't let people earn a bazillion dollars per pill for medical supplies, all of western civilization will collapse into socialist hell" talking points. Second, $30mil isn't "filthy rich" these days.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5643823)
First, this seems to be contradictory to your general "if you don't let people earn a bazillion dollars per pill for medical supplies, all of western civilization will collapse into socialist hell" talking points.

No. The drugs just won't get developed, which is fine. We spend too much on medical care already.

Second, $30mil isn't "filthy rich" these days.

Yes, yes it is. $30M is more than any reasonable person could spend in 3 lifetimes. With that amoutn of money your family is set for multiple generations, which is likely awful for the kids.

If I were king, the estate tax rate would be something approaching 100% for any amount exceeding $5M per recipient.
   29. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5643824)
It's call negotiating. It's fairly common in the industry.

And sometimes the best negotiating tactic is to walk away from a shitty offer. The other side needs to be aware, that you are perfectly willing to walk away, and won't be strongarmed into a deal that doesn't work for you. Otherwise you end up bent over a barrel.
   30. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5643825)
I still say he'd be better off to sell 10% of his future MLB earnings on the market. Securitize yourself.

Some investor is going to pay several million dollars for that, because there's a real shot at $300M of career earnings.


Sometime back in the late 80's/early 90's, David Bowie sold bonds against future royalties and made a killing.
   31. jmurph Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5643826)
Second, $30mil isn't "filthy rich" these days.

zop, is that you?
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5643829)
Sometime back in the late 80's/early 90's, David Bowie sold bonds against future royalties and made a killing.

Athletes have done it too. Vernon Davis and Arian Foster did this in the NFL.
   33. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5643831)
First, this seems to be contradictory to your general "if you don't let people earn a bazillion dollars per pill for medical supplies, all of western civilization will collapse into socialist hell" talking points.

No. The drugs just won't get developed, which is fine. We spend too much on medical care already.


No to go all OTP here, but you really should familiarize yourself with the history of the pharmaceutical company Valeant.
   34. Khrushin it bro Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5643833)
He didn't take the $30 million what an idiot!
   35. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5643834)
No to go all OTP here, but you really should familiarize yourself with the history of the pharmaceutical company Valeant.

Those things are just scams. They should be prosecuted for anti-trust violations.
   36. Khrushin it bro Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5643835)
The Braves tried to lowball him with only $30 million, what jerks!
   37. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5643837)
Those things are just scams. They should be prosecuted for anti-trust violations.


Point being, that's why many drugs have outrageous prices. Not because of the R&D costs, but because predatory "pharmaceuticals" like Valeant buy up small developers with successful drugs, eliminate R&D, and jack up the price 100 fold, in order to fuel the next acquisition.
   38. geonose Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5643838)
after Yordano Ventura, José Taveras and José Fernández

Help me...maybe I'm just being a dummy...who is Jose Taveras? I can't find a deceased former player by that name.
   39. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5643842)
It's Oscar Taveras
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5643843)
Help me...maybe I'm just being a dummy...who is Jose Taveras? I can't find a deceased former player by that name.

Sorry, Oscar. I was already thinking about Fernandez as I typed his name.
   41. geonose Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5643844)
Ohhhh. Duh. Thanks. Should have figured that out.
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5643847)
Point being, that's why many drugs have outrageous prices. Not because of the R&D costs, but because predatory "pharmaceuticals" like Valeant buy up small developers with successful drugs, eliminate R&D, and jack up the price 100 fold, in order to fuel the next acquisition.

Right, and that can and should be addressed. Simply strip their patents, and contract with some other company to produce the drugs, using Federal purchase guarantees if necessary.

But, you can't have blanket limits on drug prices without impeding innovation. The rest of the world gets away with it b/c they piggy-back on US innovation.
   43. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: March 27, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5643856)
We really need to know the terms of the options to evaluate whether it might have been a good deal or not for Acuna.

That said, $30M for his cost-controlled years seems pretty light. Even if he somehow doesn't pan out as anywhere close to a superstar, if he's healthy enough to stay on the field, he'll make enough money to set himself for life. For example, Delmon Young earned nearly $22M over the course of a MLB career that ended before his age 30 season and only featured one good season. Young's career is probably something approaching a lower bound of what Acuna will do, assuming some sort of tragedy doesn't befall Acuna.

Former elite prospects get a lot of second chances to show that they don't have what it takes. And the risk of an outfielder suffering a career ending injury is very low. His decision to turn down a $30M guarantee is defensible, especially if he had to give up options on his free agency years.
   44. Greg Pope Posted: March 27, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5643870)
We really need to know the terms of the options to evaluate whether it might have been a good deal or not for Acuna.

That said, $30M for his cost-controlled years seems pretty light.


Right. Kingery's a different story in that he's not the level of prospect that Acuna is.
   45. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 27, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5643880)
Delmon Young earned nearly $22M over the course of a MLB career that ended before his age 30 season and only featured one good season. Young's career is probably something approaching a lower bound of what Acuna will do, assuming some sort of tragedy doesn't befall Acuna.

That strikes me as really, really optimistic - the lower bound seems a lot more like, say, Andy Marte. Granted, maybe not quite a prospect at Acuna's level but he certainly had several second chances as a "former elite prospect." Total career earnings $1.6M. Yes, he had the tragic death too, but that was two years after he was out of baseball in the U.S.
   46. BDC Posted: March 27, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5643898)
the lower bound seems a lot more like, say, Andy Marte

Yes, absolutely. Just last night I saw Jurickson Profar play for what's effectively the Rangers' "B" team. Profar was the #1 prospect in some rankings not long ago, has no accomplishments in 200 ML games, and has made $3.6M in salary – which is pretty good for somebody with any amount of accomplishments in life, but still. Profar just turned 25, so he has time to earn a lot more; but he could also be virtually through at this point.
   47. Rally Posted: March 27, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5643902)
This seems to be a foolish move to me. With $30,000,000.00, you start by buying a disability policy for the years after your contract, to cover injury risk. Assuming he is a Georgia resident, $30,000,000.00 is going to put him in the highest tax bracket, but say he keeps 60%, which is $18,000,000.00. Assuming he doesn't go Cespedes on car purchases, he has money for a very comfortable life, even if he sucks or is injured. If he turns out to be great, he has another contract at age 26, which allows him to make stupid car purchases to his heart's content.


I think you are assuming this deal (if it was actually offered, I see that is in question) would cover only his first 6 years and allow him to be a free agent at 26. What if, like the Kingery example, it guarantees 30 million but then includes team options for what would be his first 3 years of free agency?
   48. TJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5643913)
if the Braves lynched Phil Niekro, Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn, and the ghost of Kid Nichols in the concourse in CF during the opening day ceremonies, you'd justify it as finally moving forward after too many years of homage to the past.


I would buy tickets for that game. Sure beats some crappy bobblehead...
   49. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5643915)
I would buy tickets for that game. Sure beats some crappy bobblehead...
Yeah, it'd be five crappy bobbleheads.
   50. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5643919)
Yes, yes it is. $30M is more than any reasonable person could spend in 3 lifetimes. With that amoutn of money your family is set for multiple generations, which is likely awful for the kids.
A reasonable person could spend that amount in thirty days.
   51. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5643926)
Yes, yes it is. $30M is more than any reasonable person could spend in 3 lifetimes. With that amoutn of money your family is set for multiple generations, which is likely awful for the kids.


Which is why I would live a life of luxury and leisure and make sure there was nothing left for my kids. It's better for everyone that way!
   52. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5643927)
Yes, yes it is. $30M is more than any reasonable person could spend in 3 lifetimes. With that amoutn of money your family is set for multiple generations, which is likely awful for the kids.
And this is silly. $30M is plenty of money; a reasonable person could of course live off that amount without needing to work in the future. But $30M is not remotely as much as you think. I've said this before about player salaries, when people say, "Nobody could ever spend that much money": what those people are doing is thinking of their middle class lifestyle and scaling it up a bit. They think of a slightly bigger house and newer cars and two weeks at Disney instead of one and such, and then say, "Yeah, that's more than I spend now -- but it's nowhere close to the kind of profligacy that it takes to blow $30M." But that's what one does when one gets a raise, not when one gets $30M.

You're just in a different bracket of spending, even without going crazy.
   53. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5643930)
I think the idea is that spending in a whole new bracket is stupid. A lot of that spending - bigger home, fancier cars, nicer cloths, nicer hotels, first class flight, etc - at least exhibits diminishing returns and may indeed be wholly unnecessary. A reasonable person ought to be happy without these luxuries.

Of course if you're smart you can take $30M and turn it into $50M and enjoy yourself doing it. But most people aren't smart, they're dumb, and they'll waste it.
   54. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 27, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5643945)
A reasonable person could spend that amount in thirty days.
Ya know, I see reruns of "Brewster's Millions" all the time, even on MLB Network for some reason, but they never show "The Toy"...
   55. Cowboy Popup Posted: March 27, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5643949)
after Yordano Ventura, José Taveras and José Fernández, major, even life threatening accidents are a reality for some of these young hot shots

Typical scouting report. Why couldn't he die like Josh Hancock, Daryl Kile or Nick Adenhart?
   56. The Duke Posted: March 27, 2018 at 07:12 PM (#5643960)
The teams are now in full control. The agents are seeing their honey pot slip away. Big free agent contracts are a thing of the past. Players get 20-40 million through age 29-30 and then the teams bascially say “we don’t want to pay for past performance” or “ he’s in his decline phase” and pretty soon your lance lynn playing for food money in Minnesota

And if you don’t play along you get sent down to AAA until you are 26.
   57. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5643969)
I think the idea is that spending in a whole new bracket is stupid. A lot of that spending - bigger home, fancier cars, nicer cloths, nicer hotels, first class flight, etc - at least exhibits diminishing returns and may indeed be wholly unnecessary. A reasonable person ought to be happy without these luxuries.
A reasonable person with $30 million ought not to be happy living without any luxuries. Doesn't mean you ought to light cigars with hundred dollar bills, but if you're going to drive a 2003 Jetta and live in a studio apartment, well... you might as well not have the money at all.
   58. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 07:48 PM (#5643972)
You can use the money to have your enemies beaten. That’s what I’d do.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5643977)
The teams are now in full control. The agents are seeing their honey pot slip away. Big free agent contracts are a thing of the past.
Hyperbole is coming to kill us all!
   60. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5643980)
A reasonable person with $30 million ought not to be happy living without any luxuries. Doesn't mean you ought to light cigars with hundred dollar bills, but if you're going to drive a 2003 Jetta and live in a studio apartment, well... you might as well not have the money at all.


Yes of course, one ought to indulge in some luxuries. Luxuries in moderation remain luxuries. But the adaptable human brain can quickly mistake luxuries for necessities, which is what leads $30 millionaires to look dolefully at the billionaires with their private planes and megayachts and think, "I am not rich at all, I cannot even afford a megayacht."
   61. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 08:48 PM (#5643993)
I think if I were given $30M I would cut my hours but continue working part-time on jobs that I enjoy. I would take month-long trips every year with the family. I don't think I'd immediately buy new cars. Wouldn't buy a new house, I'm quite happy where I am. Eventually I'd buy a vacation home of some sort, but I wouldn't splash out for a mansion or anything, just somewhere cozy with a nice view. In short, I don't think I would want to enter a new spending bracket. I'd live a life fairly similar to my current life, it would just be somewhat nicer and freer.

It's a fun thing to think about.
   62. Greg Pope Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:04 PM (#5644004)
$30 million isn’t filthy rich, and after taxes and agent fees, plus spending over the next 6 years, he wouldn’t have $15M left. But let’s say he has $10M in the bank after he’s washed out of baseball. Investing at even 5% gives him an income of $500,000 a year. I don’t live in a city, but that kind of money (taxed as capital gains, I think) is a very comfortable living in Chicago suburbs. He can have a mortgage on a million dollar house, pay his living expenses, get a new BMW every 3 years, and still have a few hudpndred thousand a year left over for travel and entertainment.

He can have a nice life without touching the principal. His kids aren’t set for life or anything.
   63. JRVJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5644007)
I'm somewhat surprised that nobody picked up on my point that Acuña is Venezuelan, and that his country has essentially collapsed.

Surely that has to impact his decision making, since Acuña (and his family) isn't (aren't) dealing with the same problems as a kid from Nebraska.
   64. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5644010)
Profar . . . has no accomplishments in 200 ML games.


He did, however, have a heck of a good first round in the WBC. Can Acuña say the same? I thought not.
   65. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5644014)
$30 million isn’t filthy rich, and after taxes and agent fees, plus spending over the next 6 years, he wouldn’t have $15M left. But let’s say he has $10M in the bank after he’s washed out of baseball. Investing at even 5% gives him an income of $500,000 a year. I don’t live in a city, but that kind of money (taxed as capital gains, I think) is a very comfortable living in Chicago suburbs. He can have a mortgage on a million dollar house, pay his living expenses, get a new BMW every 3 years, and still have a few hudpndred thousand a year left over for travel and entertainment.


Yeah, but rich people don't really want to slum in the typical upper-middle class burbs. They want the $20 mil penthouse downtown. The dude would be 26, WTF is he going to do in the suburbs? BMW? Pfft, that's what accountants and soccer mums drive. Rich people drive Lambo's and AMG Mercedes.

$30 mil is a fair whack of coin, but it's far from filthy rich, especially before taxes. Many here are thinking like the well educated, upper-middle class, white collar workers that we are so we see a way to minimise tax, invest in income generating assets and other means to grow the pot.

Then again if someone handed me $30 mil when I was 20 years old maybe I would have blown half of it on blow, hookers and a 1973 Lamborghini Miura S.
   66. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5644015)
JRVJ - how do you think that ought to change his decision making? I feel like most players will try to maximize their earnings, whether they're from Venezuela or Switzerland.

I guess you're suggesting that his family is in trouble and they could use the extra moolah right now? We have no idea what sort of family ties the young man has, and regardless, the MLB minimum is enough for him to send back some phat dollar bucks, perhaps even enough to make a huge positive difference in their lives.
   67. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5644018)
Re: the Venezuela situation, over a year ago I saw an interview with Salvador Perez and several other Venezuelan players (probably during the WBC). They said that the hardest thing was not really being able to help their families there simply because, for example, there was just no medicine to buy for their abuelas, regardless of how much they could afford. There's only so much stuff they can ship to their relatives, I assume, even if the postal service is still functioning. If it was that bad a year ago, it's that much worse now.

Presumably Perez and the other players have offered to move at least their immediate families to the U.S. and they declined. If Acuna's family likewise wants to stay, a $30 million contract may not do them all that much good in Venezula right now. They could probably buy a nice house, but who knows what else?

EDIT: In addition to the increased risk of kidnapping. I'm sure Acuna and his family are already potential targets, but they become all the more appealing if news of a big contract gets out.
   68. JRVJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5644019)
66, I'm saying that Venezuela is an extremely dangerous place right now, with a very high risk of kidnapping (both for Acuña and his family members) or violent death.

Without any special knowledge about Acuña and his family, I would think that Mr. Acuña would want to get as many of his inmediate relatives out of Venezuela (not necessarily to the U.S., but certainly to Colombia, my Panama, the Dominican, etc.), where they will be safe from things like kidnapping, murder, violent crime, etc. Plus, no shortages of even the more essential goods.

And that reasonably means having to pay for their upkeep. Can that be achieved with a US$550K per year, league minimum salary?

Yes, but it doesn't leave much left over after taxes, agents, etc.

That doesn't mean Acuña is wrong for not taking a US$30MM contract from the Braves. But Acuña's home situation forms a backdrop to his decision making which must be thoughtfully considered when discussing his decisions.
   69. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5644027)
I think if I were given $30M I would cut my hours but continue working part-time on jobs that I enjoy. I would take month-long trips every year with the family. I don't think I'd immediately buy new cars. Wouldn't buy a new house, I'm quite happy where I am. Eventually I'd buy a vacation home of some sort, but I wouldn't splash out for a mansion or anything, just somewhere cozy with a nice view. In short, I don't think I would want to enter a new spending bracket. I'd live a life fairly similar to my current life, it would just be somewhat nicer and freer.
Oh, I'd buy new cars -- nothing crazy, and not a fleet of them or anything; one for me and one for my wife -- and definitely a bigger house. Plus a pied-à-terre, a vacation home... Again, nothing crazy. Don't need a $25M mansion. (Though if I had $300 million...)
It's a fun thing to think about.
Yes; years ago I sat down and worked out my budget for when I win the Megamillions/Powerball (which is why it's such an injustice that I haven't won yet).
   70. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5644029)
I think if I were given $30M

Two chicks at the same time.
   71. JRVJ Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5644030)
Two chicks at the same time.


Rodney Dangerfield would say: "At my age, I want two girls. That way if I fall asleep, they have each other to talk to!".
   72. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5644031)
Yes; years ago I sat down and worked out my budget for when I win the Megamillions/Powerball (which is why it's such an injustice that I haven't won yet).


Hmm. What's that, like $300M or something? I honestly am not sure what I'd do in that event. If I were unattached I'd immediately begin a life as a globetrotting bon vivant and adventure tourist. But I have kids, kids that I'd like to have a non-ridiculous upbringing, and it's tough to imagine overthrowing our lifestyle in one fell swoop.
   73. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5644033)
To paraphrase Chris Rock:

If Acuna got $30million, he'd be rich.
The guy that owns the team that paid him that money is wealthy.
   74. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5644036)
Yes; years ago I sat down and worked out my budget for when I win the Megamillions/Powerball (which is why it's such an injustice that I haven't won yet).


I've done the same thing a couple of times in my life when seated at a computer and I had time to kill.
The older I've gotten, the more I've budgeted giving away a larger chunk of the money (charities, paying off friends' mortgages, trust funds for young relatives/godchildren), and more detailed layouts about the "dream house" that I allocate money towards. "Gaming rooms" became "media entertainment rooms", computer server room(s) get added to the design, and I budget more for eco-friendly building products/designs.
Now that I have a kid of my own, some of that money starts moving back towards "saving for the future" instead.
   75. dlf Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5644037)
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women and Irish Whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -- Faith Hill's deceased father-in-law.
   76. dlf Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5644038)
To paraphrase Chris Rock:

If Acuna got $30million, he'd be rich.
The guy that owns the team that paid him that money is wealthy.


The Braves are owned by Liberty Media. John Malone is the Chairman of Liberty and the largest shareholder. His net worth, according to Forbes, is $8,100,000,000. If it grows at the same 5% figure that was quoted in #62 above, that would be $405,000,000 appreciation each year.

Edit: for what it's worth, Forbes has shown his net worth to have bounced around for much of the last decade with "lows" in the $6B range and having been a few hundred million more than what its at now at a few points in the recent past.
   77. dlf Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5644039)
Hmm. What's that, like $300M or something?


No need to wonder, since I have the winning ticket for tomorrow. $458M for Megamillion. Then after winning that one, I'll splurge with the $40M jackpot for Wednesday's Powerball.
   78. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5644040)
"Gaming rooms" became "media entertainment rooms", computer server room(s) get added to the design


You're just going to play computer games? Lame. I'll be gambling in Monaco in my new white tuxedo surrounded by gorgeous women while you watch your World of Warcraft gnome get gored on a really big television.
   79. Greg Pope Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5644041)
Yeah, but rich people don't really want to slum in the typical upper-middle class burbs. They want the $20 mil penthouse downtown. The dude would be 26, WTF is he going to do in the suburbs? BMW? Pfft, that's what accountants and soccer mums drive. Rich people drive Lambo's and AMG Mercedes.

That’s completely my point. With $30M he’s doesn’t actually have to work if he washes out of baseball. He can live a comfortable life. But he’s not filthy rich. Acuna is perfectly within his rights to bet on himself if he wants to be filthy rich. But locking in the first $30M might be a smart move for him. As I said, in this or the other thread, Acuna is a much better prospect than Kingery.
   80. Brian White Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5644042)
I'd like to interrupt the ongoing argument over how anyone could possibly scrape by in life with a mere eight figures in the bank to point out that this was absolutely brilliant:

after Yordano Ventura, José Taveras and José Fernández, major, even life threatening accidents are a reality for some of these young hot shots

Typical scouting report. Why couldn't he die like Josh Hancock, Daryl Kile or Nick Adenhart?


Well done.
   81. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5644043)
Yes; years ago I sat down and worked out my budget for when I win the Megamillions/Powerball (which is why it's such an injustice that I haven't won yet).

I've done the same thing a couple of times in my life when seated at a computer and I had time to kill.
The older I've gotten, the more I've budgeted giving away a larger chunk of the money (charities, paying off friends' mortgages, trust funds for young relatives/godchildren), and more detailed layouts about the "dream house" that I allocate money towards. "Gaming rooms" became "media entertainment rooms", computer server room(s) get added to the design, and I budget more for eco-friendly building products/designs.
Now that I have a kid of my own, some of that money starts moving back towards "saving for the future" instead.
To be fair, my kids have also worked out their wish lists. (We're apparently going to have a laser tag arena on our property, as well as an American Ninja Warrior gym.)
   82. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5644044)
You're just going to play computer games? Lame. I'll be gambling in Monaco in my new white tuxedo surrounded by gorgeous women while you watch your World of Warcraft gnome get gored on a really big television.


The first go-around at this budget was when I was 17, so travel and gambling weren't really an option.

The computer servers were added to help power the multimedia/home automation setup (including wired high-speed internet to every room, and blanket wifi throughout) and media library.

Travel has always been part of the plan, and pretty much starts with an annual entry into the World Series of Poker $10,000-entry main event.
   83. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5644045)
as well as an American Ninja Warrior gym


Even though it would probably lead to my remaining life being in traction, that would be pretty fun to have...
(/scribbles note)
   84. PreservedFish Posted: March 27, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5644047)
The computer servers were added to help power the multimedia/home automation setup (including wired high-speed internet to every room, and blanket wifi throughout) and media library.


This seems like something a mere thousandaire could afford.
   85. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 28, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5644059)

Typical scouting report. Why couldn't he die like Josh Hancock, Daryl Kile or Nick Adenhart?


Nice "Ha ha only serious" post, except I feel the need to point out that Kile died of a heart attack, not in a wreck.

Man, that gutpunch feels like it just happened last month. It's been 16 years.
   86. Dr. Vaux Posted: March 28, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5644064)
To me, rich would be just knowing I'd never be homeless again. It's amazing that I've screwed up my life so badly that even with that as my main goal, I'm nowhere close to achieving it.
   87. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 28, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5644101)
I've done the same thing a couple of times in my life when seated at a computer and I had time to kill.
Wait, I thought that's what this place was for.
   88. PreservedFish Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5644109)
I met a billionaire that goes big game hunting and fishing in remote islands in the Indian Ocean. He owns homes on at least three continents. Pretty sure he had a full-time bartender on his yacht, even when it was just him and his wife on it. Seemed like a pretty solid lifestyle.
   89. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5644116)

This seems like something a mere thousandaire could afford.


Yep. I think it was something like 50 to 150 dollars per room for a T5 line, possibly a thousand dollars for a "Smart home setup" and cloud storage is virtually free. One of the regrets I have when I bought my home was paying for the smart home option. I never realized how much of a pain in the arse turning lights off was until I moved out of an apartment and into an almost 3,000 sq ft home. It would be nice to be able to adjust the AC/heat, turn on/off fans, and turn lights on/off from my phone.
   90. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5644120)
At this point in time being rich would just be all about being comfortable. I'd probably buy a historic home and fix it up, get a home on the Georgia coast, and do a lot of traveling. Don't need a dozen cars, don't need to kill anything, don't need the biggest collection of anything. I'm certain my impulse buys will increase. I'm fairly sure I would complete my collection of every year's set of Topps baseball cards since I've been born. Wouldn't think twice about plunking down several hundreds of dollars for supposedly a great bottle of wine. But you're not going to be seeing me in the pages of Wine Spectator with a 10 million dollar collection of wines or anything like that.

My home would have a really kick arse kitchen as well as a really great outdoor one. Probably have a professional kitchen in my house somewhere off the regular kitchen. Put a professional wok system in, wood fired pizza oven outdoors, something like an Argentinian grill as well. The works. Have a gardener help me with a kick arse fruit/vegetable/herb garden landscaping.
   91. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5644126)
Have a gardener help me with a kick arse fruit/vegetable/herb garden landscaping.
I'd buy a property large enough for a garden, an orchard and a small pond, but in the city.
   92. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5644138)
I'd buy a property large enough for a garden, an orchard and a small pond, but in the city.

Surprisingly doable in DC though you would be in the "suburbs" of the city. Up in the far corners of the NW quadrant.
   93. PreservedFish Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5644146)
wood fired pizza oven outdoors, something like an Argentinian grill as well. The works.


I'm hoping to complete both of these, without extraordinary funds.
   94. PreservedFish Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5644151)
At this point in time being rich would just be all about being comfortable.


I read the VS Naipaul book Guerillas and I didn't like it much but I remember one scene at a small dinner party where the host writes something down on a piece of paper, and folds the note, and then asks the guests to describe their perfect lifestyle. They all do so, and nobody describes a crazy fantasy, just pleasant comfortable lives. After they all do it he unfolds the paper and it says something like "Everyone will describe a version of their life that they have already lived."
   95. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5644156)
Sure, I don't think that is much of a shocker really. We like what we know and have grown accustomed to but would like more of it if possible. It also helps not to ask that question to teenagers, drug fiends, sex fiends, and the unstable.
   96. dlf Posted: March 28, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5644165)
Do folks here know people with two comma net worth? I've had the chance to work closely with two.

The first was Chairman of a couple of inter-related publicly traded companies. I reported to someone who reported to him, but my office was 100' from that of the chair while my direct supervisor was located in Europe. He made the Forbes 400 which estimated his wealth at a little over $2B. He had a *very* nice house, but not holy **** over-the-top lavish, that latter went on the market for about $5m. He also had the corporate entities pay for private jet travel for all of his domestic trips. But beyond that, his personal spending wasn't at all lavish. He brought his breakfast from home every day (two hard boiled eggs and a diet coke). When he ate with staff in the cafeteria, he bought his own salad (and wouldn't pay for anyone else). He drove a nice Mercedes, but it was several years old and not a six-figure sports car. Annual week long vacations in Italy, but not monthS long ones. All-in-all it was a nice lifestyle, but one that a millionaire could afford and not something solely for the ohmygodrich.

The second is the owner of a closely held non-bank mortgage lender & servicer. I reported directly to him. Because it is closely held, the net worth isn't as clear, but the company was originating $5B per month and industry norms are profits ranging from 25 to 75 bps, which would be $125M/month. I know much of that wen't back in for future growth, but even if he just pulled out 10% of the originating profit, that would be personal earnings of $150M per year. Unlike the first guy, this one lived the Robin Leach lifestyle. He owned several vacations homes. Every quarter, he went on a lavish 2-3 week vacation like renting out an entire island off the coast of Greece. He drove a Bentley convertible that would get traded in the earlier of yearly or every 10,000 miles. He tried to buy one of the Philadelphia sports franchises. He considered himself a bit of a wine connoisseur and, at the time, we were in negotiations to buy an entity whose owner also had, as a hobby, a high end wine shop in San Fran; we had a meal during the negotiations where my boss started by ordering four bottles of $1,000 Opus One for the eight of us and the wine selections just went up from there.

The latter is the life-style that, when I win the $500M megamillions later this week, I'd like to try for a little while, but couldn't imagine keeping up for long. I suspect I'd tend back towards the earlier one as I just don't tend towards showiness in anything I do.
   97. PreservedFish Posted: March 28, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5644173)
Just the one I mentioned in #88. He wasn't as flashy as your banker fellow, but he unquestionably lived large, billionaire style. Private jet, big yacht, secluded luxury mansions throughout the world, almost always traveling from one extraordinary place to another. Large support staff of pilots, captains, cleaners, chefs, bartenders etc. I don't think he did anything that normal people do.

I don't think he ever hailed a cab or went to a grocery store or paid a bill. He had totally opted out of those sorts of normal tasks. That was my impression, at least.
   98. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 28, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5644177)
You're just going to play computer games? Lame.


I hit on the $450 mil Powerball, I'm going to build a custom mega-"Ninja Warrior" type deal and populate it with known Trump voters. No need to pretend with Halo anymore.
   99. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5644178)
Do folks here know people with two comma net worth? I've had the chance to work closely with two.

Let me see . . $1,000,000. Perhaps you mean three commas? Two doesn't seem all that rare nowadays what with the baby boomers aging and housing going up. My parents might very well have attained double comma net worth and they are cheap as #### and never made huge amounts of money. I probably know at least a regular joes who have double comma net worth.
   100. McCoy Posted: March 28, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5644181)
As for billionaires I've personally met and talked with at least three that I'm aware of. One guy was a Chinese businessman who at the time had something like the 8th largest wine collection in the world and the other two are I believe octogenarians who still work everyday, don't drink, and seem pretty down to earth.

I think I might have shown Bloomberg where his table was.
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