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Friday, June 01, 2012

Report: Sox tell teams they’re trading Youkilis

Time to pin up my G.G. Allin/ANTiSEEN poster!

According to a report from CBS Sports senior baseball writer Danny Knobler, Kevin Youkilis is officially on the trading block. Tweeted Knobler Friday: Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend to trade Youkilis.

Youkilis is hitting .250 with a .318 on-base percentage and .406 slugging percentage on the season. He has been solid in nine games since returning from the disabled list, hitting .313/.371/.531 with two home runs.

Youkilis, 33, is in his ninth season in Boston and has career averages of .288/.389/.490, with 133 home runs and 562 RBIs.

Repoz Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:42 PM | 103 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4145153)
Youkilis for Cole Hamels seems to be a popular rumor. Although the last time we were desperate for a third baseman ad brought in a veteran it was Pedro Feliz and he singlehandedly brought us a WS title, I do not favor this proposed trade.
   2. Jon T. Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4145157)
that is crazy, we would have to throw in Middlebrooks for Cole Hamels
   3. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4145161)
Hamels would just be a rental for this season. Have the Red Sox given up on the season yet, or do they want rentals?
   4. Lassus Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4145162)
Oh no, this is my GF's favorite player.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4145163)
Why would the Phillies trade Hamels for anything less than tippity-top prospects? And certainly I don't get why they'd trade Hamels for 1.5 years of retail-price Kevin Youkilis.
   6. formerly dp Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4145164)
Oh no, this is my GF's favorite player.

Because she read Moneyball before it was cool?
   7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4145166)
Sorry to re-post from another thread, but if I were really sorry, I just wouldn't have done it...

There are two kinds of good trades that a contender can make:

(a) Trade for a major league contributor to upgrade a replacement level position, or
(b) Trade for an All-Star to upgrade an averageish position

Obviously an (ab) where you get an All-Star where previously you had Nicky Punto is the best kind. The problem with the Youkilis rumor is that it's hard to imagine Youkilis bringing back a legitimate star to upgrade an averageish position like SS or corner OF, and it's hard identify where the Red Sox expect to have replacement level production over the course of the rest of the year. CF is a gaping hole right now, but if any of Ellsbury or Kalish or even Crawford comes back healthy, they can take over the position. The back of the rotation is a candidate, but what contending club trades away good pitchers in midsummer?

I guess the solution is some sort of three-team deal, where the Sox send Youkilis to the Phillies, who send prospects to the Cubs, who send Garza or Dempster to the Sox. (Or whichever names and clubs you prefer to sub in.)

I'm still unsold on Will Middlebrooks (29/4 K/BB, .400 BABIP) playing good baseball for the rest of the summer, and injuries have left the Sox needing both of Youkilis and Middlebrooks in the starting lineup most nights for at least the next month or two. I could see a trade of Youkilis for pitching in late July, but right now seems like the wrong time.
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4145168)
Would Arizona be a team that has starting pitching to trade, room to improve at 3B, and aspirations of contention in the next 1.5 years?

Talk of Hamels is fantasy.

The Sox can trade Youkilis because Padilla can slide into his role as sweatiest human.
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4145172)
Would Arizona be a team that has starting pitching to trade, room to improve at 3B

You try telling that to the Illustrated Man Ryan Roberts.
   10. JJ1986 Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4145177)
Oh no, this is my GF's favorite player.


She'll have to become a Phillies fan.
   11. McCoy Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4145180)
Alfonso Soriano is available.
   12. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4145185)
Don't push your luck. Once Marlon Byrded, twice shy.
   13. Hack Wilson Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4145186)
Alfonso Soriano is available.

So is Dempster.
   14. booond Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4145203)
They waited too long on Youk. He's on the wrong end of the value curve. Dodgers are looking at him, too.
   15. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4145207)
Youkilis for Cole Hamels seems to be a popular rumor.

Well, I'm sure it's popular in Boston.
   16. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4145208)
Re. 7:

OK, I'll play along. Don't know much about the Phils' system anymore (didn't they pretty well gut it over the last few years to bring in Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, etc.?); what from their system would be fair value for Garza?
   17. TerpNats Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4145210)
If Morse was struggling in his return -- which he apparently isn't right now -- the Nats might consider Youkilis for Lannan and a mid-level prospect. (I doubt the Bosox can get much more for him than that.)
   18. JJ1986 Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4145214)
didn't they pretty well gut it over the last few years to bring in Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, etc.?


They have two good prospects left in Trevor May and Jesse Biddle. Not much behind them at all.
   19. Gamingboy Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4145216)
Youkilis for Cole Hamels seems to be a popular rumor.


I heavily doubt it. At least, not straight-up. Maybe Hamels for Youkilis and several high-end prospects. Maybe. Possibly. Probably not.
   20. Guapo Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4145223)
If Morse was struggling in his return -- which he apparently isn't right now -- the Nats might consider Youkilis for Lannan and a mid-level prospect. (I doubt the Bosox can get much more for him than that.)


Where would you play him?
   21. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4145224)
They have two good prospects left in Trevor May and Jesse Biddle. Not much behind them at all.

What happened to Joe Slavery? He used to be in every trade discussion. Team X wants Kyle Drabek or Joe Savery or Carlos Carrasco. Team Y wants Joe Savery or Carlos Carrasco or Kyle Drabek. Team Z wants Carlos Carrasco or Kyle Drabek or Joe Savery. Those were the days.
   22. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4145225)
What happened to Joe Slavery?

Hasn't been the same since (elbow?) reconstruction.
   23. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4145226)
Have the Red Sox given up on the season yet
...they're a game and a half out of the second wild card, and three games out of first place.
   24. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4145231)
As a practical matter Youkilis is a rental too. I think it's 50-50 at best that any team picks up his option for 2013.
   25. JE (Jason) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4145234)
If Morse was struggling in his return -- which he apparently isn't right now -- the Nats might consider Youkilis for Lannan and a mid-level prospect. (I doubt the Bosox can get much more for him than that.)

Zimmerman and LaRoche beg to differ.

EDIT: A 16-oz. Coke (don't want to offend Mayor Mike) to Guapo.
   26. jmurph Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4145236)
Hasn't been the same since (elbow) reconstruction.


Yeah that's not bad.
   27. billyshears Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4145237)
What happened to Joe Slavery? He used to be in every trade discussion. Team X wants Kyle Drabek or Joe Savery or Carlos Carrasco. Team Y wants Joe Savery or Carlos Carrasco or Kyle Drabek. Team Z wants Carlos Carrasco or Kyle Drabek or Joe Savery. Those were the days.


I thought he became a hitter.

Edit: Looks like he's back to pitching.
   28. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4145238)
What happened to Joe Slavery?


Was he Jim Crow's brother?
   29. MM1f Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4145240)
Alfonso Soriano is available.


Wow, Soriano to Boston actually makes a hell of a lot of sense, though maybe not in a Youkilis deal.

The Red Sox could use any kind of outfielders they can find and the two teams obviously have front offices that feel comfortable communicating and trading with each other.
   30. MM1f Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4145241)
Was he Jim Crow's brother?


No, but he did play with Craig Crow (but not Aaron Crow) at Rice.
   31. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4145243)
Wow, Soriano to Boston actually makes a hell of a lot of sense, though maybe not in a Youkilis deal.

Well, can Youk still cut it at third?
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4145244)
As a practical matter Youkilis is a rental too. I think it's 50-50 at best that any team picks up his option for 2013.


Either way the option makes Youk's trade value slightly higher.
   33. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4145246)
In addition to Youk for Hamels, the Sox should definitely trade Scott Podsednik for Matt Kemp.
   34. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4145247)
#27, Savery became a hitter last year, started off red hot at A+, got pushed to AA where I think he was pretty meh as a hitter, threw an inning of emergency relief and threw harder than he ever did before. He went back to pitching, but strictly bullpen. He's one of the 4 LH relievers on the Phillies right now. He's been used as the 12th man in the pen. I don't think he's pinch hit yet.
   35. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4145255)
In addition to Youk for Hamels, the Sox should definitely trade Scott Podsednik for Matt Kemp.


and then trade the attractive blonde ball-girl for Craig Kimbrel.
   36. Lassus Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4145268)
She'll have to become a Phillies fan.

That is too terrible to consider.


   37. zonk Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4145275)
Wow, Soriano to Boston actually makes a hell of a lot of sense, though maybe not in a Youkilis deal.

Well, can Youk still cut it at third?


Who cares?

The goal is to move Soriano. If it means Youk has a Marlin Piazza-esque career in Chicago, whatever.

Other than equally bad or worse contracts (Wells... A-Rod?...not much else) -- there isn't a single name out there for whom a "Soriano for name" makes me think twice.

Soriano has actually be hitting a bit last month, too - I'm not saying he has any value, but if a contender has an expensive redundancy to shed for a LF/DH who can still mash lefties a little bit and a big checking account, done, done, done, a thousand times done.

EDIT: Soriano hit 290/353/591 with 7 HRs during the Cubs putrid May. Honestly, if he didn't have two more years of that bloated contract waiting on deck -- I really think there might actually be a market for him.
   38. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4145278)
Who cares?

The goal is to move Soriano. If it means Youk has a Marlin Piazza-esque career in Chicago, whatever.


Oh, I know that--I was responding to the "maybe not as part of a Youkilis trade" part of the previous post (which I took to suggest the Cubs wouldn't want him); if Youk can play third, he might even temporarily fill an actual need (beyond dumping Soriano).
   39. McCoy Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4145281)
the two teams obviously have front offices that feel comfortable communicating and trading with each other.

Yeah but by the time the deal would get finalized the season would be over.
   40. zonk Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4145282)
Oh, I know that--I was responding to the "maybe not as part of a Youkilis trade" part of the previous post (which I took to suggest the Cubs wouldn't want him); if Youk can play third, he might even temporarily fill an actual need (beyond dumping Soriano).


I'd be more than willing to get creative... What else do the Sox need? Do they want a spare parts OF? DeJesus? Barney? A utility IF as Middlebrooks insurance like Baker or DeWitt or Mather? A SP? A reliever?

Heck, how about a catcher? I'd bundle whatever it took to move Soriano if it meant only having to eat a slice of the 2 1/2 remaining years.
   41. Greg Franklin Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4145283)
Cherington says....

"Inaccurate!"
   42. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4145284)
the two teams obviously have front offices that feel comfortable communicating and trading with each other.

Youkilis for Rizzo, obvs
   43. Kiko Sakata Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4145286)
Well, can Youk still cut it at third?


The Cubs obviously have a huge hole at 3B, and on other threads I've criticized the idea that the Cubs can't contend before 2015, but what would be the point of picking up an over-the-hill guy who you have for at best 1-1/2 years? I guess I'd do a Soriano-for-Youkilis 1-for-1 with no money trading hands as a way to get out from under Soriano's contract. But, as much as I hate this phrase in general, it's hard to see how Youkilis "would be a contributor on the next good Cubs team".
   44. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4145288)
Sounds like the new BoSox guard's having some issues with message discipline.
   45. Dan Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4145289)
You people seriously think the Boston Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for Alfonso Soriano? And are giving it enough consideration that it's garnered 10+ posts?

Maybe they'll throw in Pedroia for Marmol too!
   46. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4145292)
For all you desperate Cubs fans out there, if John AAAAberry doesn't start hitting and Dom Brown continues to flounder, I could see the Phils at least talking about Soriano -- but the trade value is near nil -- I'm thinking one of the many meh AAA reliever semi-prospects or maybe Michael Stutes -- and the Cubs eating a fair amount of the remaining contract. I wouldn't do it but I could see the Phillies' brass pulling the trigger on that.
   47. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4145293)
But, as much as I hate this phrase in general, it's hard to see how Youkilis "would be a contributor on the next good Cubs team".

See my exchange with Zonk--it doesn't matter, especially if they get out from under more than a token amount of Soriano's contract by throwing in trinkets. This is a "clearing salary" trade, not a "building the roster" trade.
   48. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4145294)
Youkilis for Rizzo, obvs


this would only happen so that Rizzo is on another team again and Jed Hoyer has yet another chance to acquire him...
   49. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4145298)
I was gonna ask about Brown when I was asking about the Phils' system up top--is he considered a washout? Is there some sort of strange Phillie OF prospect curse (see Brown, Mayberry, Michael Taylor) nobody's talking about?
   50. Kiko Sakata Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4145299)
You people seriously think the Boston Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for Alfonso Soriano?


I think the problem is that it's not at all obvious what the Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for. Older guys a year or two away from free agency are typically traded by non-contenders in exchange for prospects. But it makes no sense to think of the Red Sox as non-contenders who need to shed old guys and pick up prospects. So what does that leave? Soriano-for-Youk is a fairer trade, talent-wise, than Youk-for-Hamels.
   51. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4145301)
You people seriously think the Boston Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for Alfonso Soriano? And are giving it enough consideration that it's garnered 10+ posts?

Yes, because anyone's actually suggested that trade would happen straight-up. Reading is fundamental.

EDIT: That being said--this: Soriano-for-Youk is a fairer trade, talent-wise, than Youk-for-Hamels.
   52. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4145304)
Soriano-for-Youk is a fairer trade, talent-wise, than Youk-for-Hamels.
Yes, and NCIS: Los Angeles is better than CSI: Miami. They're both dumb, and only the former trade proposal got a bunch of people discussing it as it if weren't a ludicrous idea.
   53. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4145307)
Yes, because anyone's actually suggested that trade would happen straight-up. Reading is fundamental.
Kevin Youkilis has positive value, while Alfonso Soriano has negative value. If the Cubs added in enough positive value to make up for Soriano's negative value, then maybe a trade could be worked out, but it would have nothing to do with Soriano.
   54. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4145311)
I think the problem is that it's not at all obvious what the Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for. Older guys a year or two away from free agency are typically traded by non-contenders in exchange for prospects. But it makes no sense to think of the Red Sox as non-contenders who need to shed old guys and pick up prospects. So what does that leave?
A three-team deal, as I suggested above. See the Manny Ramirez - Jason Bay deal as an example of the type.
   55. Textbook Editor Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4145314)
General manager Ben Cherington denied a report that the Red Sox were telling teams they "definitely intend to trade" Kevin Youkilis.

"That’s inaccurate," Cherington e-mailed WEEI.com Friday afternoon. "Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup."


...I read that as saying the "inaccurate" part is that they definitely intend to trade him. I see nothing in Cherington's comment that reads they would never trade him.

Hamels for Youkilis sort of strengthens both teams... but by weakening them at the same time. And Amaro would be crucified if he did that deal (even if prospects were thrown in). The local Philly mood seems to be "Oh ####, we're a really old team!" of late, and a sudden realization that while Lee/Halladay are all well and good, Hamels is younger and perhaps even better going forward than those two... Hence a SIGN HAMELS AT ALL COSTS!!!-type mood has surfaced among my Philly fan friends.

   56. Spahn Insane Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4145316)
If the Cubs added in enough positive value to make up for Soriano's negative value, then maybe a trade could be worked out, but it would have nothing to do with Soriano.

I catch your drift, but "Nothing to do with Soriano" is an exaggeration, given the state of the Red Sox outfield.
   57. Textbook Editor Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4145319)
BTW--in #55 I don't think Hamels for Youkilis straight up would ever happen, but even with decent prospects thrown in, I don't think Amaro would trade Hamels, because he'd be killed for it in the fan base... so I guess I'm saying I can't see any deal for Hamels happening for anyone.
   58. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4145322)
Is there some sort of strange Phillie OF prospect curse (see Brown, Mayberry, Michael Taylor) nobody's talking about?

To be precise, Mayberry was a #1 draft pick challenge trade for tools goof Greg Golson, who has sipped coffee for the Yankees. That the Phils got a great 1/2 year out of him last year should be considered miraculous, or more precisely, fluky. Pitchers are living on the inside against him, getting those long arms all tied up for bat handle fly balls/grounders. For variance, they throw low and away sliders that JM has trouble laying off.
   59. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4145324)
Youkilis for Garza makes more sense.
   60. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4145327)
I catch your drift, but "Nothing to do with Soriano" is an exaggeration, given the state of the Red Sox outfield.


A few weeks ago probably but the Sox can see some light on the horizon with Ellsbury, Crawford, Kalish and Ross. Sweeney is already back and the way Nava is playing the Sox aren't going to be feeling like he needs to be shoved aside. The time to make a Soriano type deal would have been when the Byrd trade happened, when the Sox were 8-10 weeks from getting some help.
   61. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4145329)
McCoy is laughing his butt off that people here ran with the Soriano idea. He's suggested every team in MLB and Japan take Soriano.
   62. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4145341)
But it makes no sense to think of the Red Sox as non-contenders who need to shed old guys and pick up prospects.

If they used the money saved from a Youkilis deal to get a player they want, that might make some sense. That would make a prospect deal the likely move.

There are a lot of people who follow the Sox a lot closer than I do- so I could be wrong- but they definitely looked a lot more budget conscious last off-season than they did the prior off-season. It may be that they want to free up some cash- by moving Youkilis- before they do what they really want to do.

Youk for Soriano seems insane on every level for the Sox. Therefore, I fully endorse the trade.
   63. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4145344)
Jurrjens and Pastornicky. Final offer.
   64. zonk Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4145349)
Youkilis for Garza makes more sense.


Not for the Cubs it doesn't.

From a Cub perspective, that might not be AS laughable as a Youk/Soriano swap, but it's in the same ballpark. Youkilis is 4 years older than Garza, Youkilis looks like he's on the downside, while Garza is at least in his prime, and it's the Cubs that are going nowhere -- so why trade a younger player still in his prime for a more expensive player on the downside?
   65. zonk Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4145353)
Jurrjens and Pastornicky. Final offer.


For Soriano?

Done.
   66. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4145360)
I love the way Alfonso Soriano has become the Queen of Spades in a neverending game of Old Maid.
   67. Joey B. Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4145361)
Thank goodness Jed Hoyer isn't running the Texas Rangers, or he'd probably give them Josh Hamilton.
   68. ColonelTom Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4145377)
Jay Jaffe's take on potential Youkilis suitors:

The Diamondbacks could be a fit. At 23-28, they’re nine games behind the Dodgers, and even while playing in a hitter-friendly environment, their offense is eking out a subpar 4.08 runs per game. Third baseman Ryan Roberts has been dreadful (.226/.288/.329), and in Trevor Bauer, Tyler Skaggs and Patrick Corbin, they have a trio of youngsters — the first two of them blue-chip prospects — who could offset a trade of Joe Saunders. The 31-year-old righty doesn’t miss many bats, but his 5.9 strikeouts per nine is a major improvement over last year’s 4.6, and his walk, home run and groundball rates have improved as well. He’s making $6 million this year, while Youkilis is making $12 million; Boston could eat the difference in salary and potentially gain another warm body in return.

The Red Sox shouldn’t expect too much more no matter their trade partner.


That's about what I figure they'll get as well. Jaffe points out that most of the teams that want Youkilis can't deal starting pitching, which is what Boston needs most. The Phils could send Blanton to Boston, but (1) I'm not sure Boston wants him after his last 3 starts (12+ ERA) and (2) I'm not sure the Phils can deal him with Halladay out and Worley trying to pitch through elbow chips. If Philly decided to part with Blanton, something like Blanton + Mayberry might be doable from Philly's standpoint, but I doubt that's enough to entice Boston.
   69. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4145394)
Kevin Youkilis was born to play for Brian Sabean, Ned Coletti, or Dusty Baker. It's just a matter of when. Scott Rolen's got a fork in his back, the Giants won't play Belt, and Casey Blake is retired. Pick 'em.
   70. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4145403)
Kevin Youkilis was born to play for Brian Sabean, Ned Coletti, or Dusty Baker.
Man, I'm old enough to remember when Youkilis was a stathead-only prospect that Baseball America refused to give even a single mention in their top 100 list.
   71. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: June 01, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4145415)
What about Youk to Cleveland? He's an Ohio-native, they could use a corner bat. And in return the Sox could get the Artist Formerly Known As Fausto Carmona.
   72. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 01, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4145436)
McCoy is laughing his butt off that people here ran with the Soriano idea. He's suggested every team in MLB and Japan take Soriano.


Would the Hiroshima Toyo Carp take him back? People tend to forget that he was originally signed by the Carp, and played in Japan before he played in MLB. He left the team by proclaiming he was retiring, which led to legal tussles between MLB and NPB.
   73. ColonelTom Posted: June 01, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4145451)
Youk would fit nicely in Cleveland, but I'm not sure the Red Sox would get much out of Fauxto this year, since he won't even arrive in the U.S. until at least the All-Star break. Even Joe Blanton's a better bet to help this year. Cleveland would have to send a couple of its better minor-leaguers to Boston in a Youkilis deal - maybe one of their non-Lindor shortstops (Rodriguez or Wolters) and a non-Howard arm (Adams or Barnes). I think the money probably keeps this deal from getting done, though.
   74. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4145470)
...a SIGN HAMELS AT ALL COSTS!!!-type mood has surfaced among my Philly fan friends...


As panic-stricken ranting goes, that's actually fairly intelligent. Especially for Phillies fans.
   75. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4145476)
Man, I'm old enough to remember when Youkilis was a stathead-only prospect that Baseball America refused to give even a single mention in their top 100 list.


Ha! Me too, and I didn't even think of that. All I could think of is what a crusty vet Youk has become. Still, times have changed, eh?
   76. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4145481)
I'm starting to think a Youkilis deal would look something like the Scutaro deal, with the Sox getting salary relief and a depth option that doesn't necessarily go straight to the 25 man roster. I don't see their immediate needs matching up with what Youkilis could bring them.

A starting OF for the next month or two would be great -- but that's not the serving size you can acquire starting OFs in. A starting pitcher good enough to give up on the Bard-as-starter experiment, like a Greinke or a Hamels, would be awesome -- but you're not getting that for a Youkilis-fronted package.

Buchholz has shown enough lately that you're not thinking about bumping him from the rotation. If that changes, an innings eater type would make sense, though Matsuzaka and Cook would get first crack at that before you resort to trading for someone like Joe Saunders or John Lannan.

Nor do I see the need to trade for an established reliever when the bullpen's been so good lately that the number of quality relievers stuck at Pawtucket goes at least three deep (Melancon, Tazawa, Mortensen, possibly Wilson), with Bailey working his way back, and Bard always an option.

If Pedroia and Iglesias are both out longer than expected, a middle infielder would make sense. But barring that or another injury, the Sox don't really need help anywhere else. They might not trade Youkilis for some guy in A ball, but I don't think it'll be for someone who helps the 2012 club a lot.
   77. MM1f Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4145483)
You people seriously think the Boston Red Sox would trade Kevin Youkilis for Alfonso Soriano? And are giving it enough consideration that it's garnered 10+ posts?


I was actually trying to point out that a Youk/Soriano trade wouldn't make sense by itself BUT the Red Sox, with their deep pockets and laughable OF situation, are maybe the one team in baseball who could stand to pick up a part of Soriano's contract in some type of deal.
   78. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4145500)
A starting pitcher good enough to give up on the Bard-as-starter experiment, like a Greinke or a Hamels, would be awesome -- but you're not getting that for a Youkilis-fronted package.

Buchholz has shown enough lately that you're not thinking about bumping him from the rotation.


I wonder if packaging Buchholz and Youkilis could get a good SP in return.
   79. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4145504)
I wonder if packaging Buchholz and Youkilis could get a good SP in return.
Buchholz's trade value -- now there's a good question. The contract's reasonable, $3.5M this year with 3/26 and two options remaining, but would anyone want to trade for him right now? That's the rub with trading Buchholz: if he's bad enough that you want to deal him, he's probably got no trade value; if he's pitching well enough that other teams are after him, the Sox won't want to move him.
   80. Zipperholes Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4145505)
Kevin Youkilis has positive value, while Alfonso Soriano has negative value. If the Cubs added in enough positive value to make up for Soriano's negative value, then maybe a trade could be worked out, but it would have nothing to do with Soriano.
I get the concept of "positive" and "negative" value, but these ideas only really exist as applied to a team. E.g., Youkilis is probably "positive value" to the White Sox, who don't have a 3B, and "negative value" to the Tigers. I don't know whether he's "positive value" to the Cubs. He could be.
   81. Walt Davis Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4145507)
I'm not sure it's fair to assume that teams are going to trade for Youk as a 3B. I know that's mostly where he's been playing and Rfield says he's been average ... but he's also 33, missed 100 games across 2010-11 and has already been hurt this year. I'm not convinced he can stay healthy as a full-time 3B. I'm not saying that no teams will view him as a 3B but, for example, it only makes sense for the DBacks to trade for him if they believe he can be a healthy 3B.

3B only: DBacks, Angels, Reds, [EDIT: White Sox]

1B (and maybe 3B): Indians, Marlins, Mets, Phils, Pirates, Dodgers, Giants

I'll admit, when I started that list, I assumed the teams needing 3B only would be longer. Man there are a lot of 1B having crappy seasons. And teams who think their best 1B replacement option is Magahee or Wigginton -- really, is the supply of AAA 1B that pathetic right now?

The main problem has been mentioned. Youk is only of interest to contenders (or Soriano salary dumpers) but the Red Sox are also contenders and want ML improvement back. Of the straight up trades, Blanton for Youkilis looks like the most sensible. (There is zero chance of the Phils trading Hamels now with Halladay out ... maybe closer to the deadline if the Phils season is dead, but not now.) And, hide the women and children, but Youk for Zito is no longer laughable. Nolasco (plus something). But desperate as they may be for starters, adding a (hopefully) league-average innings eater won't help the Sox that much. Bullpen pieces are always available of course. But the 3-way trade would seem the way to go.

Holy crap -- I knew Chapman was having an awesome season but 26 IP with 0 ER? 7 hits in 26 IP? Yowza.

Also Francoeur has gotten hot again and is back to mediocre.
   82. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: June 01, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4145508)
I was actually trying to point out that a Youk/Soriano trade wouldn't make sense by itself BUT the Red Sox, with their deep pockets and laughable OF situation, are maybe the one team in baseball who could stand to pick up a part of Soriano's contract in some type of deal.
Don't see the Sox being interested in Soriano -- he's a long term solution to a short term problem.
   83. valuearbitrageur Posted: June 01, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4145531)
The Diamondbacks could be a fit. At 23-28, they’re nine games behind the Dodgers, and even while playing in a hitter-friendly environment, their offense is eking out a subpar 4.08 runs per game. Third baseman Ryan Roberts has been dreadful (.226/.288/.329), and in Trevor Bauer, Tyler Skaggs and Patrick Corbin, they have a trio of youngsters — the first two of them blue-chip prospects — who could offset a trade of Joe Saunders. The 31-year-old righty doesn’t miss many bats, but his 5.9 strikeouts per nine is a major improvement over last year’s 4.6, and his walk, home run and groundball rates have improved as well. He’s making $6 million this year, while Youkilis is making $12 million; Boston could eat the difference in salary and potentially gain another warm body in return.


I was going to say the DBack's are morons if they trade for Youklis, but if all it takes is Joe Saunders, it's slightly less dumb. Not only could they use him at 3rd, but at first as well. But at $11-12M per year he only makes sense if this team didn't piss away millions on replacement level bench players, and tie up $7M a year in an immobile DH to replace their gold glove left fielder.

Oh, and that K rate improvement in a 31 year old pitcher is totally sustainable. The Sox better hurry, Saunder's will probably be over 7k/9 by year end!
   84. Darren Posted: June 01, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4145591)
Kevin Youkilis is not some piece of crap on an overpriced contract. He was worth 3.7 WAR just last year. Over 5 the year before. For some reason, though, everyone (here and elsewhere) is ready to dump Youkilis at the drop of a hat. What is that? What is it about this guy that hypnotizes people into deciding he's expendable? Is it because he sweats so much? Is it his paunchy build? In a month, Youk will be right back to his sold-D/high OBP act of old, and all of this talk will sound very silly.

He not as good of a player as Hamels, but he's on a better contract. I would probably not trade Hamels for him but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand the way I would a Soriano deal.
   85. Zipperholes Posted: June 01, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4145621)
Kevin Youkilis is not some piece of crap on an overpriced contract. He was worth 3.7 WAR just last year. Over 5 the year before. For some reason, though, everyone (here and elsewhere) is ready to dump Youkilis at the drop of a hat. What is that? What is it about this guy that hypnotizes people into deciding he's expendable? Is it because he sweats so much? Is it his paunchy build? In a month, Youk will be right back to his sold-D/high OBP act of old, and all of this talk will sound very silly.
I'm not a Sox fan. But you should always be looking to trade any assets that aren't being utilized optimally. If you already have a good 3B and 1B, you probably aren't using Kevin Youkilis optimally. He (or Middlebrooks, or Gonzalez) should be traded for an asset from whom you can extract more value.
   86. Darren Posted: June 01, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4145623)
People have bbeen talking about trading Youkilis for years, long before this logjam.
   87. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: June 01, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4145627)
Yes, but like Walt noted, he's missed around 100 games since the beginning of 2010. He can't seem to stay healthy, and 1B and DH are being manned by better hitters. The Sox have holes to fill. It's not hard to see why Youk's on the block.
   88. Walt Davis Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4145632)
Kevin Youkilis is not some piece of crap on an overpriced contract.

Agreed (I don't know why the Sox would be that interested in trading him). But: (a) he's still owed $8 M for this year and there are not many teams with $8 M of mid-season flexibility so he is "high-priced" in that sense; (b) he's missed a lot of time over the last 2+ seasons and is not currently hitting well. He probably will be back to his usual self and is probably good for another 80-100 starts this year -- but what incentive do other teams have to take the sizeable risk that he's done.

It seems odd perhaps but look at Youk's "through age 32" b-r comps. Like most sets of b-r comps, it's far from perfect. But there are only two players who did anything from age 33 on -- Moises Alou (who had trouble staying ont he field) and obvious early steroid adopter Dolph Camilli. :-) That other 8 combined for 0 WAR. On the one hand, you could dismiss many of those since they're OFs; on the other hand, the future of 33-year-old fragile 3B is not bright.

A better list of comps might be players with 12-18 WAR from 30-32 (Youk is about 15). That's a MUCH more promising list but there is perhaps some question as to whether the late bloomers are a different group in this subset. There are a lot of great hitters who aged exceptionally well on this list of course but most of them were great at young ages too. You also have some early faders. But I suppose almost all of them stayed pretty productive through 35-36 so that's not bad. (I know that any team trading for him only cares about his age 33 and maybe 34 production, not his longer-term future.)

Gene Tenace is an interesting name that pops up on that list and he got little playing time in his mid-30s. I don't know if that was health (he didn't catch many games so you can't really blame it on standard C aging) or team stupidity. Posada, Daulton, Piazza and Tettleton all show up too -- obvioulsy Youk should be a C! Kruk seems like a lefty comp to Youk and he declined substantially at 33 but was still a good hitter in his last season at 34. Melvin Mora put up surprisingly similar numbers from 30-32. Based on this list, that's about as bad as you could expect for Youk going forward and even Mora added 9 WAR over ages 33-36 amd Kruk was still putting up league average OPS+ when he stopped.
   89. booond Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4145639)
You can't trade him, his perceived value sucks. The Red Sox, for good or bad, are stuck with him until he proves he's Youk of 2009. Once that happens, if they want, then they can pull the trigger. If that means less at-bats, or even AAA time, for Middlebrooks that's what it means. It's the position the Sox are in for the moment. Things change.
   90. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4145640)
I'm not a Sox fan. But you should always be looking to trade any assets that aren't being utilized optimally. If you already have a good 3B and 1B, you probably aren't using Kevin Youkilis optimally. He (or Middlebrooks, or Gonzalez) should be traded for an asset from whom you can extract more value.


The problem is, beaseball players aren't exactly a liquid asset, and the number of buyers and sellers is extremely limited. Turning a say, 3 WAR Youkilis into a different useful 3 WAR player, given contracts and team situations and whatnot, is actually pretty tough to do. It's not optimal, but the market is very inefficient.
   91. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4145642)
Actually, the Brewers could use a 1st baseman . . .
   92. Don Malcolm Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4145644)
I see that someone mentioned to Jay J. that he'd mislabeled Joe S. as a righty. It's been fixed over at his blogg...

Who are the likeliest teams out of Walt's list to pull the trigger? Teams with really weak offense at third and enough pitching to shore up the loss of a starter.

That's the White Sox, Dodgers, Reds--and, yes, D-Backs. The Marlins seem to be the only viable takers at 1B, since they still seem willing to take on salary.

Dodgers aren't likely to give up pitching, however--they'll try to nurse things along with it while Kemp's out. Don't think the Reds will part with any of the younger guys, and it's hard to figure that the Sox would go for Bronson Arroyo at this point...

I think it's the White Sox or the Fish...but Pedroia's injury status will probably cause the Sox to wait awhile before taking away another bat from their lineup. They'd be down four starters from their ostensible 2012 Opening Day by doing so. I think a Youk deal isn't likely to happen till the end of July.
   93. Guapo Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4145645)
Didn't youk say he wanted to play for Cincinnati at some point? Or did I imagine that?
   94. Zipperholes Posted: June 01, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4145647)
The problem is, beaseball players aren't exactly a liquid asset, and the number of buyers and sellers is extremely limited. Turning a say, 3 WAR Youkilis into a different useful 3 WAR player, given contracts and team situations and whatnot, is actually pretty tough to do. It's not optimal, but the market is very inefficient.
True. And added to the fact that there are a limited number of teams who can both use Youkilis AND give the Sox something more valuable to them in return, is the conventional wisdom surrounding trading which serve as obstacles. For example, the idea that you can't trade an established veteran for prospects as long as you're a potential contender, even if it otherwise makes sense.
   95. tshipman Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4145663)
I think the Giants would be/should be interested, but I have no idea what the general sense of Youkilis's market value is. If he's on an 8 million dollar contract, he has around 4-6 million in surplus value. That's not a whole lot. If the RSox wanted Belt, then the deal would be done already, but I get the feeling they're asking for more than that. Maybe a reliever? Not sure. Does Romo get it done? He would be the best pitcher in Boston's pen. Not sure if that's enough value ...
   96. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4145676)
Buchholz's trade value -- now there's a good question. The contract's reasonable, $3.5M this year with 3/26 and two options remaining, but would anyone want to trade for him right now? That's the rub with trading Buchholz: if he's bad enough that you want to deal him, he's probably got no trade value; if he's pitching well enough that other teams are after him, the Sox won't want to move him.

Sounds like the kind of deal the Pirates might make.

Saunders would get DESTROYED playing for the Sox. He's been making it happen with smoke and mirrors for a while (year and a half?) but the peripherals just are not (and have never been) there. He'd be sub-replacement level playing for Boston.

And, as others have pointed out in this thread, pitching DEPTH is not the Sox' problem. If they were to trade for a pitcher, it would have to be a difference maker. Saunders, Blanton, these inning-eater types, we're not going to see a Youk deal for a player like that.

Youkilis is not actually surplus to need for the Red Sox. He's not going to be traded for emergency OF help, he's not going to be traded for a back-of-the-staff arm, and he's not going to be traded for prospects.

...I read that as saying the "inaccurate" part is that they definitely intend to trade him. I see nothing in Cherington's comment that reads they would never trade him.

Of course they wouldn't NEVER trade him. The number of MLB-affiliated players whose teams would NEVER trade them can be counted on one hand, if there are any at all. This distinction is useless.
   97. shoewizard Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4145677)
Can't believe the Red Sox would see Saunders as the answer to their pitching problems. He has poor numbers against Tampa Bay, New York and Baltimore. He is a league avg innings eater that seems to outperform his peripherals. I would be shocked if the Red Sox did a Saunders for Youkilis deal without someone else of real value going to the Red Sox included.

EDIT: Coke to Petuniaviles...beat me by a minute

   98. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4145842)
I'm not a Sox fan. But you should always be looking to trade any assets that aren't being utilized optimally. If you already have a good 3B and 1B, you probably aren't using Kevin Youkilis optimally. He (or Middlebrooks, or Gonzalez) should be traded for an asset from whom you can extract more value.


The Sox are three games out of first place on June 1. The likelihood that they are going to get better in 2012 by trading Kevin Youkilis is pretty low. There should be no rush to send Youk out of town, he's a very good if somewht fragile player. With Middlebrooks spelling him from time to time the Sox can manage that a bit.

I'd rather the Sox milk everything they can out of Youk the rest of the year and if that's it so be it. Trading him I think would be a Billy Beaneesque "win the trade, not games" move.
   99. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: June 01, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4145847)
Eh. I don't think the Hamels for Youk is nearly as crazy as people are making it sound. Obviously, all other things being equal, Hamels is the guy you would rather have. But all other things aren't equal. You are trading 9-10 months of Youk, for 3-4 months of Hamels. Youk is still a legit >3 win player. And as good as Hamels is, he isn't a 7.5-9 win guy. And on top of that Hamels is being paid more per month.

From the Phillies' POV, they already have 2 legit aces. And they are currently have a shiny 94 team OPS+, being propped up by their catcher hitting like peak Pujols. "EXTEND COLE HAMELS AT ALL COSTS" is a fun slogan, but the Phillies are already spending a ####ton of money. And if he is asking for 22m per, maybe you are better off taking Youkilis, and using the extra 10m to fill a black hole or two.
And with Halladay down, and Howard out, retooling for next season could make a lot of sense. At the same time, with the ageing core, you might not want to trade for prospects who are 3-4 years away.

I am not saying the Phillies absolutely should make this deal. But it's orders of magnitudes less crazy, than any Soriano talk.
   100. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: June 01, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4145941)
"Didn't youk say he wanted to play for Cincinnati at some point? Or did I imagine that?"

He did, and I think it would be a good fit as the Reds can slot Frazier in left field or at third base while using Heisey as the 4th outfielder. I see two problems though:

1) I don't see what the Red Sox would want from the Reds (that's touchable),

&

2) The Reds desperately need another lefty bat even if he can only play against righties. The Reds are getting killed by right-handed pitching.
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