User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets. |
Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats
|
AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets. |
Page rendered in 0.3122 seconds
54 querie(s) executed
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 14, 2011 at 06:35 PM (#4016310)I hate trading postion players for relievers.
There's some speculation that Cherington is under orders to reduce the payroll to a point where the Red Sox don't have to worry about the luxury tax.
-- MWE
Lowrie made $450,000 in '11. Scuturo was rumored going, couple days back which fit that thinking.
Lowrie's arbitration-eligible, which normally means a healthy bump. Granted it's nothing like Scutaro's salary, but I can't imagine that the Sox found any takers for Marco at $6M.
Again, it's speculation, though. Lucchino danced around the topic when asked the other day.
-- MWE
Your AL Candidate for a mini-stroke or Smallpox: Bobby Pornbeard Jenks!
Yes, read that. They're quite close to cap, going to be interesting to see what they do to add talent.
I'll miss the double earflap. This does seem like selling low, unless their scouts think Melancon's the second coming or something.
Why? His downside is being about average. It's a 1 year deal at below market value, not requiring long term commitment. And SS is pretty thin right now.
I'm not saying they should be expecting some massive haul in return, but that's an eminently tradable asset, if they just want to shed the money.
Melancon was very good last year after learning a cutter. The 6 IBBs hurt his walk rate, but he was otherwise a GB machine with a pretty good K:BB ratio. Seems like a pretty nice haul for the Sox for a couple spare parts.
a) Melancon has had the "one year of success" after developing an effective cutter, something he cites and PitchF/X confirms. That seems less of a reason to assume randomness of his success.
b) You pulled numbers from Lowrie's 2010 because that is his only year of success.
IOW, there's a decent chance they sold high on Lowrie, and bought low on Melancon.
I'm with you in that I don't generally like position player for reliever trades. But, realistically, what is an appropriate return for Lowrie? He's never healthy. A consequence of that is that he'll probably have to be moved off SS, in which case the potency of his bat is less relevant. And he's had one good year, in four, with the bat. The Red Sox aren't trading 55 specific games of Lowrie in 2010, they're trading whatever he'll produce in 2012-14, and the odds are that it's not much. A return of Melancon seems actually a bit high to me - which might explain the inclusion of Weiland - but IANAGM.
For Boston, Melancon's a cheap, cost-controlled option at the back of the bullpen, and last year looked like a breakout season with the new cutter. At worst, he'll be a solid 8th-inning guy. They don't lose anything they'll miss - Lowrie's too much of an injury risk to rely upon if you're a contender, which is why they brought Scutaro back. If Lowrie's on the bench, he's eminently replaceable. Weiland was probably ticketed for AAA or a long-relief role at most in the near term.
Houston's looking for upside, not certainty. Lowrie is a massive upgrade talent-wise on their current options at SS, and even after arbitration, he's significantly cheaper than the departed Cliff Barmes. He also could be trade bait if Jonathan Villar pans out. Weiland has a chance to be a back-end starter or quality reliever. Who knows, maybe he'll be the next Mark Melancon.
Win-win.
Walk off hit to win the ALDS that year, then final out of the ALCS. Jed was in the middle of it.
For the record, if I'm ever in Boston and I meet one of the 25, I ain't buying him a beer. I appreciate his efforts, but I sure as hell ain't forking over what little cash I have to a guy who made millions.
Mirabelli is selling houses for God's sake! Have pity man!!
Lowrie is a useful player because he can play second, third, and short, he can start for a stretch or fill in off the bench, he is _capable_ of hitting well for a utility infielder as he showed in 2010, etc. Does that outweigh the value Melancon may provide? Probably not, but I think Melancon is a bit easier to find.
I certainly don't see why they needed to include _two_ players in the deal.
The deal is probably a wash, so I can't criticize it much.
I think buying him a beer would increase the chances of him sitting down with you and telling insider tales about the glory days.
I would hope all the guys who made real money would turn down your offer, and pay themselves.
I assume that's the kind of deal Houston was looking for because they need depth at this point. They probably wouldn't do a 1-for-1...
In which case, the Red Sox should have told them they wouldn't do a 2-1.
Then the Reds Sox don't get the player they wanted. There was no pressure to trade Melancon; he makes league minimum.
Teams are stupid for trading oft-injured middle infielders for relievers.
How pray tell are they supposed to get relievers if they don't have any in their system?
Ray's right that by far the most likely outcome is that this is just a "meh" trade, so there isn't much reason to get exercised about it. I do think, though, that almost all the tail risk is being borne by the Sox.
Relievers are funky so something weird could happen but he's cheap, he's young and while not long, his track record is pretty good.
But screw that, MLBTR says the Sox just signed Nick Punto. All is well!
Go to their nearest tree and pick up the ones that are falling off.
Seriously, good relievers are easy to find. They're easy to make. They're just live arms, generally with good K rates and the ability to control their walks at least to an acceptable level. You have them in your farm system; you make them from starters; you sign them as free agents; you trade nothing for them BEFORE they have their "breakout" Melancon Year.
It's the Riveras and Papelbons that are hard to find. Good relievers are far easier to find, and if you have a reliever with above-average peripherals, the small sample of innings he pitches will lead to a 100-150 ERA+ for the year, which is just fine.
But Ray, if trading Kyle Weiland and Jed Lowrie isn't "going to the nearest tree" what is? The Sox gave up nothing in this trade, nothing at all. There is a chance that Lowrie stays healthy and makes me eat my words but I'm comfortable saying the Sox lost nothing of value here.
EDIT: I'm too dismissive of Weiland. Like I said earlier, he could be a useful part someday but I think that means he could become Mark Melancon. I don't think his upside is much more than that.
They gave up a Nick Punto-free roster. Value: invaluable.
Farm system, rule 5, waiver wire, convert a shortstop. There's a million ways.
C - Salty, Shoppach
IF - Gonzalez, Pedroia, Scutaro, Youkilis, Aviles, Punto
OF - Crawford, Ellsbury, Reddick, Kalish, McDonald
DH - Ortiz
SP - Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, somebody we don't have yet; Tazawa is waiting in the wings
RP - Jencks, Melancon, Albers, Aceves, Morales, Wilson/Doubront/somebody we don't have yet
Why are we interested in keeping Dan Wheeler? He was generally excellent after the first month of the year. We declined his option, yes? Could we pick back up?
Incidentally, when he was up with the Yankees, Melancon gave the least comprehensible interview I've ever seen. I think it was mostly nerves, but I've never seen someone interviewed with a worse command of the English language.
The option is gone but we can still sign him. Basically he is a free agent now.
(Which he won't.)
Huh. This and Punto? Quiet offseason for Red Sock GMs.
This means that one of Scutaro, Aviles or Punto is in the lineup EVERY DAY. These guys are interchangeable once or twice a week players, and by that I mean that between the three of them, the should only get in 2 games a week. EVERY DAY? Bah!
Edit...and some days, 2 of them will start. DOUBLE BAH!
What happened to Pedroia?
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main