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Monday, February 11, 2013

RetroSimba: Carlos Beltran nears joining top 10 switch-hitters in RBI

As Mike Francesa’s new partner, “Joe from Bavaria” Ratzinger just said…“Imagine how many RBI’s Beltran would have if he didn’t take strike three all the time!”

Cardinals outfielder Carlos Beltran enters the 2013 season with a strong chance to upgrade his status to the elite level among switch-hitting run producers in baseball history.

Barring injury, Beltran this year will move into the top 10 all-time career RBI leaders among switch-hitters. Beltran ranks 11th. He needs two RBI to move ahead of ex-Cardinals second baseman Frankie Frisch (1,244).

Over the last two seasons, Beltran, who turns 37 in April, has averaged 90 RBI per year. If he matched that average for the 2013 Cardinals, Beltran would finish the season ranked seventh in career RBI for switch-hitters.

...(Note: Of the top 5, only Chipper Jones and Ted Simmons aren’t inducted in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Jones, who retired after the 2012 season, is a shoo-in when he becomes eligible in five years. Simmons’ status among this select group is further evidence he belongs in the Hall of Fame.)

Repoz Posted: February 11, 2013 at 02:25 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: February 11, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4367218)
I'm surprised he's not already there -- would have been a good Sporcle.

Mantle, Smith, Rose, Murray came straight to mind. The excerpt has Chipper who I'd have thought of and Simmons who I probably wouldn't have and Frisch who I wouldn't have gotten in a million years (unless you count "one of those 20s-30s guys" as a hit). I assume he has more than somebody like Ozzie Smith. Oh well, off to b-r to find the obvious switch-hitters I've forgotten.

Swisher must be closing in as well.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: February 11, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4367224)
Wow. Reggie Smith is not in the top 10
   3. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4367235)
I cheated and looked on PI--Chile Davis is #5, and Ruben Sierra is #6--never in a jillion years would I have guessed those
   4. zonk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4367239)
All-time switch-hitter team?

C Ted Simmons
1B Eddie Murray
2B Frankie Frisch
SS George Davis
3B Chipper Jones
LF Tim Raines
CF Mickey Mantle
RF Carlos Beltran

Perhaps you slot Rose somewhere - but I don't think I'd take him over Chipper or or Frisch (and there's also Robbie Alomar)... You could go defense-first at SS and look at Ozzie or a myriad of others, I guess.

The only place the team would really be shallow would be catcher -- unless I'm forgetting someone, Jorge Posada is really the only other near-HOF level catcher I can think of...
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4367240)
Berkman has 1200, just 43 behind Beltran.

Texeira has 1101 already, and I imagine could get up to #3 or even #2 on this list before he retires.

All-time switch-hitter team?


I'd have Ozzie Smith over Davis, but that's just me. Beltran has only played 269 games in right, Pete Rose has 628 games at 2B (and 589 in RF!). I'd put Petey at 2B. If not him, then Roberto Alomar.
   6. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: February 11, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4367254)
How the hell did a SS with 1,440 RBIs wait 90 years to get into the Hall of Fame?

121 OPS+, 24 bWar on defense (whoa), only 56 bWar on offense?
   7. Walt Davis Posted: February 11, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4367453)
I'm not sure how you get Raines over Rose (unless you are being properly strict on position). I'm not sure he belongs there over Smith for that matter.

Rose, from 24-38: 11000 PA, >3000 hits, >1000 BB, 388 OBP, 130 OPS+, 76 WAR, 44 WAA
Raines, career: 10500 PA, 2600 hits, >1300 BB, 385 OBP, 123 OPS+, 66 WAR, 35 WAA

Or does the Rose ban apply to BBTF all-time teams too? :-)

Smith, career: 8000 PA, 366 OBP, 137 OPS+, 61 WAR, 38 WAA so that's a career vs prime argument, basically equal.

Berkman gets a big hit on defense but is packing the 409 OBP and 146 OPS+. Beltran is basically Smith's WAR twin (62 WAR, 39 WAA, nearly identical PA).

So Rose has to start in the OF if he's not starting at 2B. The third OF slot is a battle among Beltran, Smith and Raines. If Beltran can repeat 2012, he's got a clear edge.

unless I'm forgetting someone, Jorge Posada is really the only other near-HOF level catcher I can think of...

How many of the top 10-15 Cs do you need? :-)

3B is quite thin -- the 2nd best switch-hitter with at least 800 games at 3B is Caminiti with 31 WAR. Or Bonilla or Pendleton if you prefer. Obviously Rose (600+ games at 3B) would be our replacement and Ozzie/Davis/Frisch/Alomar would slide over in an emergency. Jim Gilliam also hits the 600 game barrier with 38 WAR but I think we'll have to hide him in AAA.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:04 PM (#4367463)
The only place the team would really be shallow would be catcher -- unless I'm forgetting someone, Jorge Posada is really the only other near-HOF level catcher I can think of...

Ted Simmonds and Jorge Posada is a shallow C tandem? They're #10 and #17 all-time by WAR.
   9. zonk Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4367473)
OK, fair enough...

I was just top of my head'ing the team and for whatever reason -- Rose's ban always seems to worm its way into my mind underrating how good he actually was (ironically, back when he was a full-time 2B).
   10. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:43 PM (#4367508)
How the hell did a SS with 1,440 RBIs wait 90 years to get into the Hall of Fame?

he dropped off the face of the earth after his career ended and by the time the hall of fame caught up with the backlog nobody was around who had seen him play so he was forgotten a second time

it took a fair amount of writing about him to get this wrong fixed
   11. Mike Webber Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:28 AM (#4367578)
Wally Schang was the default catcher on the switch hitting teams until Simmons came around. He has 41.4 War to 39.0 for Posada.

The Staff would be something like,
Early Wynn
Robin Roberts
Ted Lyons
Red Faber
Mordecai Brown

Gary Lavell
Grant jackson
Greg Minton
Pedro Ramos
Herb Pennock

   12. Walt Davis Posted: February 12, 2013 at 01:44 AM (#4367615)
The Staff would be something like,

Nope, sorry, we're stuck with the handful of freaks who pitch with both hands.

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