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Friday, March 16, 2012

Richard Justice: Andy Pettitte’s character, poise to make a comeback with Yankees

Or as Charles Pierce FBingly pointed out…“If you leave out the fact that he was a Bible-banging PED sucker, I’d agree with you.”

Andy Pettitte did his best to pour himself into a life away from Major League Baseball. He coached youth baseball teams and participated in various church projects. He became involved in every aspect of his kids’ lives.

The thing he struggled with, the thing he never really could wrap his mind around, was that he was finished with Major League Baseball. He was still pitching at a high level when he walked away after the 2010 season.

As much as he wanted to be one of those guys who went out on his own terms, he was never completely satisfied with his decision. He’ll tell you he loves his life with his family, and I’m sure he does.

He’s a man of honor and a man of faith, and he desperately wanted to be closer to his family. He also believes God gave him incredible athletic gifts and saw part of his mission as using those gifts. His ministry was to live a very public life a certain way, to be the right kind of man.

...But his return means the Yankees just got smarter and tougher. They got an infusion of character and poise, too. In fact, if you were to make a list of all the intangible things good teams have, Pettitte would check off almost every box.

...Yes, he has admitted to using human growth hormone. He said he was injured and scared in 2004, and he made a terrible mistake. When you think of Andy Pettitte, I’m guessing performance-enhancing drugs are not the first things that come to mind.

Repoz Posted: March 16, 2012 at 05:05 PM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, fantasy baseball, history, yankees

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   1. Tippecanoe Posted: March 16, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4082536)
doing things right


big-game presence


inner toughnes


character and poise


The random cliche generator apparently realizes that he's too tall to be scrappy or gritty.

   2. tfbg9 Posted: March 16, 2012 at 06:39 PM (#4082545)
Dick Justice. What every young man cries out for!
   3. flournoy Posted: March 16, 2012 at 07:13 PM (#4082579)
Andy Pettitte won't make a comeback.

What? Oh, okay, fine, he'll come back for one year.

Huh? Oh, geez, fine, two years, but that's it.
   4. salvomania Posted: March 16, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4082602)
Richard Justice: Andy Pettitte’s character, poise to make a comeback with Yankees


Isn't this the guy who was caught using performance-enhancing drugs? How come he's lionized and a guy like Mark McGwire is treated by the media like some kind of leper????
   5. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 16, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4082611)
Because he's white!
   6. Yclept Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4082618)
How come he's lionized and a guy like Mark McGwire is treated by the media like some kind of leper????


Hired a better public relations firm.

Also, McGwire has been spotted hanging out in Hooters with Hellboy and "Satan" Reinsdorf.
   7. joker24 Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4082620)
My favorite part is how much play he gets for his apology for using HGH just that one time. Until it came out that he had done it another time. Must have just slipped the mind.
   8. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4082622)
Primey!

Because this is a parody, right?
   9. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4082623)
That wasn't ever going to happen. If Pettitte was going to return, he was going to pitch for the Yankees. He understands and embraces the history of the Yanks, and he was proud to have played a part in five World Series championship teams.


Why, it's as if Pettitte never left the Yankees to pitch for the Astros.
   10. flournoy Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4082630)
Andy Pettitte never used HGH. He wasn't featured in the Mitchell Report. He's never met Roger Clemens. He never pitched for the Astros.
   11. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4082631)
But Pettitte's return means the Yankees just got smarter and tougher. They got an infusion of character and poise, too. In fact, if you were to make a list of all the intangible things good teams have, Pettitte would check off almost every box.


Using HGH? Check.

Lying about it repeatedly? Check.

Yes, Pettitte has admitted to using human growth hormone. He said he was injured and scared in 2004, and he made a terrible mistake. When you think of Andy Pettitte, I'm guessing performance-enhancing drugs are not the first things that come to mind.


Why, it's as if Pettitte never confessed to using in 2002.
   12. Bob Evans Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4082635)
Out here in the hinterlands, PEDs are in fact the first things that come to mind when I think of Andy Pettitte.
   13. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4082636)
Pettitte's initial statement in December 2007, following release of the Mitchell Report:

"In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow. I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone. Though it was not against baseball rules, I was not comfortable with what I was doing, so I stopped.

"This is it -- two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list," he said. "I wasn't looking for an edge. I was looking to heal.

"I have the utmost respect for baseball and have always tried to live my life in a way that would be honorable. If I have let down people that care about me, I am sorry, but I hope that you will listen to me carefully and understand that two days of perhaps bad judgment should not ruin a lifetime of hard work and dedication.

"I have tried to do things the right way my entire life, and, again, ask that you put those two days in the proper context. People that know me will know that what I say is true."


It was a pack of lies.
   14. Darren Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4082649)
This treatment of Pettitte is so similar to how the members of the village in politics get treated it's scary. If you're one of them, you are right, you are always right. No matter what you've done, no matter how bad it was or how completely opposite your image, you're still a great, god-fearing Christian. No matter how wrong you've been on any subject, your opinion is still valued and sought out by the media (the other day I got to hear Paul Wolfowitz talk about what should be done about Iran--not on Fox News, but on NPR).

Thank goodness for Glenn Greenwald is all I can say, and too bad he doesn't have a wider audience.
   15. Darren Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4082651)
Yes, he has admitted to using human growth hormone. He said he was injured and scared in 2004, and he made a terrible mistake. When you think of Andy Pettitte, I’m guessing performance-enhancing drugs are not the first things that come to mind.


Yeah, I wonder why that is? Could it be that it's because you and the rest of the media constantly obsess about his "Christianity" and use it to excuse the same thing you villify others for. Or, put another way, we learned this from watching you!
   16. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: March 16, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4082655)
When you think of Andy Pettitte, I’m guessing performance-enhancing drugs are not the first things that come to mind.

You guess wrong.
   17. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4082662)
When you think of Andy Pettitte, I’m guessing performance-enhancing drugs are not the first things that come to mind.

You guess wrong.


Yeah, that was odd.
   18. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 16, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4082672)
You know what the worst part about this article (well excerpt, I am not clicking through...) is. There's four paragraphs of complete made up psychoanalytical bullshit. Where Dick just pretends to have perfect ####### insight into Pettitte's mind. He just ascribes thought's and motivations to Pettitte, and states them as fact, even when it actually directly contradicts what Pettitte has said. Not one single quote, no statement, no anecdote, not a single piece of evidence to support any of it.

That a mountain of crap like this can be passed of as journalism tells you everything you need to know about what is wrong with the industry.
   19. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: March 16, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4082678)
I am torn on Pettitte. On one hand I find it frustrating and confusing that he is treated so differently than other PED guys. On the other hand I am pleased that a PED guy is give a reasonable benefit of the doubt and not blindly assumed to be some kind great of great evil.
   20. Chip Posted: March 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4082761)
Why, it's as if Pettitte never left the Yankees to pitch for the Astros.


Who are these "Astros" of which you speak?
   21. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4082765)
On one hand I find it frustrating and confusing that he is treated so differently than other PED guys


Who, happy-go-lucky fatass David Ortiz?
   22. Walt Davis Posted: March 17, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4082846)
How come he's lionized and a guy like Mark McGwire is treated by the media like some kind of leper????

Poise. Ya gotta admit, he lied with great poise. Didn't let getting caught in the first lie faze him one bit.
   23. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 17, 2012 at 06:18 AM (#4082904)
C'mon, that's the whole fun of this! The media gets to pick and choose which players are good men (Pettitte, Ortiz) and which are foul cheaters (Bonds, Clemens); and which PEDs ruined the game (the kind you take in bathroom stalls) and which ones didn't (the kind Willie Mays gave to rookies); and which statlines are forever tainted (home runs) and which are not (all others); and who tried to do something about the problem (Fay Vincent's invisible memo) and who just sat back and let it happen (the damned union); and who had no way of knowing and dearly wish they'd been more curious (themselves) and whose exacting insights and wisdom are now, quite properly, the final word (ditto).
   24. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 17, 2012 at 08:20 AM (#4082916)
Andy Pettitte is the noble savage, inherently innocent but laid low by corrupt machinations he barely understood.

That's the role in which he's been cast (*), and it's not changing.

(*) You have to be dumb and simple to play the part, and he's certainly that.
   25. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: March 17, 2012 at 09:31 AM (#4082929)
Because he's white!



Isn't Pettitte also white?
   26. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 17, 2012 at 09:37 AM (#4082935)
joke ?[johk] noun, verb, joked, jok·ing.
noun
1. something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
2. something that is amusing or ridiculous, especially because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce: Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.
3. a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.
4. something that does not present the expected challenge; something very easy: The test was a joke for the whole class.
5. practical joke.
verb (used without object)
6. to speak or act in a playful or merry way: He was always joking with us.
7. to say something in fun or teasing rather than in earnest; be facetious: He didn't really mean it, he was only joking.
   27. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: March 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4082993)
Are Cajuns white now?
   28. Bob Evans Posted: March 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4083379)
Andy Pettitte is the noble savage, inherently innocent but laid low by corrupt machinations he barely understood.

No, he's a street-smart fish out of water in a world he never made.
   29. AJMcCringleberry Posted: March 18, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4083503)
Pettitte learned from Sheffield, throw a bigger name under the bus and no one will care about you anymore.
   30. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 18, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4083512)
Pettitte learned from Sheffield, throw a bigger name under the bus and no one will care about you anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Elr5K2Vuo
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: March 18, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4083513)
I had to click that link on 30. Good one.
   32. cardsfanboy Posted: March 18, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4083520)
C'mon, that's the whole fun of this! The media gets to pick and choose which players are good men (Pettitte, Ortiz) and which are foul cheaters (Bonds, Clemens); and which PEDs ruined the game (the kind you take in bathroom stalls) and which ones didn't (the kind Willie Mays gave to rookies); and which statlines are forever tainted (home runs) and which are not (all others); and who tried to do something about the problem (Fay Vincent's invisible memo) and who just sat back and let it happen (the damned union); and who had no way of knowing and dearly wish they'd been more curious (themselves) and whose exacting insights and wisdom are now, quite properly, the final word (ditto).


Quoted because it was an absolutely fantastic post. (none of this qft, if it's worth quoting for truth, it's worth more than three letters)

   33. tfbg9 Posted: March 18, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4083533)
There is zero evidence David Ortiz used PED's. Zilch. Andy, on the other hand, admitted use. Then he got tripped-up in his own lies.

Baseball more or less declared Papi's link to the list as a false positive or a suppliment positive. See their presser.

Stick to the boxing Joyce Carol Oates/Jack Chick stuff.
   34. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 18, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4083545)
Baseball more or less declared Papi's link to the list as a false positive or a suppliment positive.


No, they didn't. They acknowledged that some of the names on the list were probably false positives or supplement positives, but they never made any specific statements about which ones. Moreover, players subsequently have been suspended for supplement positives. That's what strict liability means.

The fact is that we don't know why Ortiz' name was on that list and we likely never will. He is exonerated in your mind because you want him to be. Other players are not because you don't want them to be.
   35. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 18, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4083598)
No, they didn't. They acknowledged that some of the names on the list were probably false positives or supplement positives, but they never made any specific statements about which ones. Moreover, players subsequently have been suspended for supplement positives. That's what strict liability means.


I am pretty much as anti-steroids as you are going to get around here, but that is insane. There was no strict liability at the time of the test, indeed there was no liability at all. There was no mechanism for getting a TUE, no list of MLB approved supplements, and no reason for any player to care whether they used a tainted supplement, or prescription which would cause them to fail a steroids test.

To treat potential false positives the same pre- and post testing smacks of either bias or ignorance.
   36. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 18, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4083602)
Poor Big Fatty just got ahold of a bad Dominican Milkshake, you can't hold that against him. I think George Mitchell granted him absolution anyways.
   37. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 18, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4083615)
There was no strict liability at the time of the test, indeed there was no liability at all.


I only meant that since there is strict liability now, I don't think much of a retroactive tainted supplement defense either. YMMV and I'm sorry I didn't state that more clearly. Also FWIW, there apparently is not, and never has been, an MLB-approved supplement list. Rather, there is a list of suspect supplements that players are advised to avoid. I was similarly misinformed on that point, but Ron straightened me out in a previous thread.

To treat potential false positives the same pre- and post testing smacks of either bias or ignorance.


To treat potential false positives as if they were confirmed false positives would seem to smack of something as well. Which was my point.
   38. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 18, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4083628)
Would anybody bet a nickel that David Ortiz gets less Hall of Fame voting support than Sammy Sosa?
   39.     Hey Gurl Posted: March 18, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4083640)
Andy Pettitte heroically recovered from the demons of PED's and managed to fight off the influence of Ro666ger Clemens by pitching through adversity and battling the affects of PED's like the warrior he is. He's a ####### hero and should have his number retired by MLB.
   40. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 18, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4083648)
Before or after they know how much Sosa is getting? OTOH, I'd bet a nickel on almost anything.
   41.     Hey Gurl Posted: March 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4083651)
Ortiz won't make it to the second ballot.

Even without the PED's I doubt he would. A short career DH with no counting stats? Come on
   42.     Hey Gurl Posted: March 18, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4083653)
C'mon, that's the whole fun of this! The media gets to pick and choose which players are good men (Pettitte, Ortiz) and which are foul cheaters (Bonds, Clemens); and which PEDs ruined the game (the kind you take in bathroom stalls) and which ones didn't (the kind Willie Mays gave to rookies); and which statlines are forever tainted (home runs) and which are not (all others); and who tried to do something about the problem (Fay Vincent's invisible memo) and who just sat back and let it happen (the damned union); and who had no way of knowing and dearly wish they'd been more curious (themselves) and whose exacting insights and wisdom are now, quite properly, the final word (ditto).


Marry me.
   43. Downtown Bookie Posted: March 18, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4083657)
(none of this qft, if it's worth quoting for truth, it's worth more than three letters)


Take it to the Nolan Ryan thread.

DB
   44. tfbg9 Posted: March 18, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4083932)
What the leauge office did and said for Ortiz is no accident. They didn't do it for any other guy on the list that got leaked...OTTOMH: Arod, or Manny, or Sosa. Reading bt. the lines: Ortiz was a false poz. The office could not actually say that, as they were not allowed to comment on the list in a way specific to any individual. But they found a way to right the wrong. Papi's not a HOF'er anyway.

The "story" in the NYT was single-sourced, with the "source" unnamed. That ain't evidence. That ain't journalism either.

Reason number 986 to hate that "newspaper" (reason number 985- they don't publish point spreads).
   45. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 18, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4083938)
Reason number 986 to hate that "newspaper" (reason number 985- they don't publish point spreads).

Why do you even bother to read the Times, anyway, since obviously you can get all your news and point spreads from the fair and balanced Boston Herald.
   46. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 18, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4083942)
What the leauge office did and said for Ortiz is no accident


Neither was the appointment of a member of the Red Sox front office to oversee the "official" PED investigation.
   47. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 18, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4083962)
Why do you even bother to read the Times, anyway, since obviously you can get all your news and point spreads from the fair and balanced Boston Herald.

Hey, whoa, them is fighting words...I think.

Neither was the appointment of a member of the Red Sox front office to oversee the "official" PED investigation.

OK, now I know for sure these are fightin' words!
   48. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM (#4084132)
I'll fight you, but you can't wear all your catcher's gear.
   49. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4084164)
Didn't Ortiz admit to using PEDs?
   50. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:55 AM (#4084168)
Ortiz won't make it to the second ballot.

Even without the PED's I doubt he would. A short career DH with no counting stats? Come on


His career really isn't that short. He's at 7,300 PA right now and unless he really craters this year should be able to get over 8,500 which, while on the low end of HoF is not outrageous. On top of that he's got a post-season record that is shiny and pretty and will help him.

I don't think he gets in or gets close but I bet he hangs around for a few ballots Rusty Staub style before dropping off.

He's definitely a player who the backlog could knock off sooner than later though.
   51. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 19, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4084191)
His career really isn't that short. He's at 7,300 PA right now


He's only at 1750 games. That's very short for a HOFer.

He has a nice peak, but not an all-time great one. He doesn't have enough bulk outside of his peak.

He's not close, and the only way he hangs around on the ballot (barring some incredible finish to his career) is if the simpleton voters become fixated on his postseason performance.
   52. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: March 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4084221)
Didn't Ortiz admit to using PEDs?
No, he has denied it. He pressed MLB after the report leaked that he had tested positive, and they released a statement about how legal supplements could trigger an unintentional positive test. Ortiz has said he should have been more careful about over-the-counter supplements, and that might have been the cause (though he doesn't know) but that he has never intentionally used and he has never tested positive under the current system.

On the HoF, Papi's basically had Boog Powell's career up to this point. Several superstar hitting years for WS contenders (and two WS winners), very little defensive value, not a ton of career length. Papi had a bit more in-season durability than Boog, but Boog had 13 seasons as a major contributor, while Papi's had 11. Papi will hopefully surpass Powell over the next few years, but it'll take a near-miraculous non-decline phase for Papi to get close to the Hall.

A 1B/DH from the sillyball era with barely 1000 runs, 400 HRs, and less than 1500 RBIs? That's not gonna cut it. Hall of Fame 1B/DH with under 1500 runs and rbis are war-credit guys (Greenberg and Mize), questionable selections from the 20s (Kelly, Terry, Bottomley, Sisler), and Orlando Cepeda. I guess it's conceivable that if Cepeda got in, Ortiz could, but there are a whole bunch ton of sluggers who could be elected if Orlando Cepeda is the floor. And Cepeda played in a far lower-scoring park and era.
   53. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4084235)
Ortiz is 36 and will presumably be playing for several more seasons. Add five years to that enddate, and he will not be drowned in the main fury of the upcoming electoral maelstrom. Edgar Martinez, currently 1400 career plate appearances ahead of Ortiz, has had a voting percentage in the mid-30's. With his postseason resume, and a likeability factor that's allowed him to mostly glide above the PED controversy, I assume David Ortiz will end up bopping along in the middle of the ballot for years.
   54. Fanshawe Posted: March 19, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4084268)
With his postseason resume, and a likeability factor that's allowed him to mostly glide above the PED controversy, I assume David Ortiz will end up bopping along in the middle of the ballot for years.


Yeah, I've always assumed Oritz would take over Mattingly's role as the good but underqualified guy who hangs around on the ballot because he made sportswriters' hearts flutter.
   55. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 19, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4084270)
Didn't Ortiz admit to using PEDs?

No, he has denied it.


I think he used the "I don't know what was in my flaxseed oil" defense.

"I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don’t do that any more because they don’t have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I’m off of buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican. But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don’t know. I don’t know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it."
   56. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4084279)
Ortiz shouldn't get a sniff. Giambi is much better, and will probably last a couple of years, max.

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