If Ankiel makes it back to the majors as a pitcher, does that put him on the short list of most fascinating MLB careers ever?

I support this plan.

brooks kieschnick all ovah again

During a Nationals thread somebody asked if Ankiel could be used in one of those LaRussa-like situations in which he came to the mound to pitch to one hitter, then return to CF. At least one correspondent reported that Ankiel has said he would never, ever pitch again, even in extreme circumstances.

Go figure.

omgf yes. I want him to retire with exactly as many batters faced as plate appearances.

Most Batters Faced by someone with more PA than Batters Faced, since 1900

Ankiel should at least make it to fourth, although Ruth is a longshot.

Obviously I haven't updated the site for 2012 yet, btw.

I look forward to when he becomes a hitter again at the age of 37

This guy flip-flops more than Romney!

Strauss adds that the Cardinals are among those who could have some interest in Ankiel as a pitcher.

2013 NL CYA winner, Rick Ankiel.

omgf yes. I want him to retire with exactly as many batters faced as plate appearances.

Most Batters Faced by someone with more PA than Batters Faced, since 1900

Interesting that that link has Ruth at 5006 batters faced, and B-R has him with 4896. Not that it matters for this thread. Curly's numbers are also slightly different than B-R's for Ankiel.

Also awesome that Ruth faced ~5000 batters and gave up just 10 home runs. With the Red Sox between 1914 and 1919, he pitched to 4749 batters, gave up 9 HR, and hit 49 (in 1330 PA). Overall, he hit a home run about every 15 PA's, and gave one up about every 500 PA's.

Ankiel (69) is tantalizingly close to second all-time, to Ruth, in home runs by guys who have faced over 1000 batters. Lindell is currently second, with 72, but he had over 1000 more PA's than Ankiel.

I have noticed that before...BB-Ref's stats for Ruth are not exactly the same as what's in the Lahman db. Breaking it down, BB-Ref shows 1272 Batters in 1916, while lahmandb has 1300. You will notice that FanGraphs has the same numbers as LahmanDB, except it omits 1914 and 1915 entirely while Sean1 shows 100/895 batters and Sean2 shows 96/874 batters.

Not a big deal, stats from that era are sketchy at best. I remember once someone asked Forman what he thought was the most overrated stat or something like this, and his response was something to the effect of any number from before WWI (or whatever) has a lot of uncertainty and shouldn't be looked at with the certainty that it does. A player logged with 200 home runs probably hit anywhere from 195-205, or something like that. My memory sucks and I'm sure I butchered his words completely, but that was the sentiment.

Ankiel's numbers are simply missing 2012.

If Ankiel actually made it back to the majors and was a great pitcher, that would be kind of depressing.

But it would be even more depressing if he pitched well for the Cards, got to start a playoff game against the Braves and had 5 WP, 4BB and 3 HBP in the first inning.

If Ankiel actually made it back to the majors and was a great pitcher, that would be kind of depressing.

Not as depressing as where his pitching career currently sits. What's past is past.

Cool list shock, two guys that usually show up on that kind of list are both 2,000 PAs short, Monte Ward and Kid Gleason.

But it would be even more depressing if he pitched well for the Cards, got to start a playoff game against the Braves and had 5 WP, 4BB and 3 HBP in the first inning.

Oh what a disaster that would be.

I don't think it'd be at all depressing if he made it back. People do what they can when they can in life. It'd be fun to see that 30-year-old Ankiel could handle something that 20-year-old Ankiel couldn't.

I don't think it'd be at all depressing if he made it back. People do what they can when they can in life. It'd be fun to see that 30-year-old Ankiel could handle something that 20-year-old Ankiel couldn't.

Same here. Obviously you can choose to look at it as "what might have been," but I'd prefer to look at it as a "wow, here's a guy who reinvented himself twice just to keep playing ball." I think Ankiel getting back to the big leagues as a pitcher would be one of the better baseball stories I'd ever see.

Tell Redford to get himself in shape for the movie.

It'd be great if he comes back, has 2 or 3 years of league average pitching, then flames out. Then appears again in 2018 as a knuckleballer.

I was a little bit sad when the Nats cut him because he's been such a fun story but I understood since he was clearly the worst player on the roster. But he still has power and is a solid defender, I was surprised nobody picked him up.

He'd be fantastic fun if he could be a two-way player- particularly paired with a ROOGY who could handle a corner of spot. I'd love that.

He hit .228/.282/.411 in 171 plate appearances with the Nationals in 2012 before being released in late July.

As a 20-year-old pitcher with the Cardinals, Ankiel hit .250/.292/.382. So he's back where he started.

He'd be fantastic fun if he could be a two-way player- particularly paired with a ROOGY who could handle a corner of spot. I'd love that.

Micah Owings was a P/DH/1B type, rather than a P/OF, but I would love to see an Ankiel/Owings tag-team.

But it would be even more depressing if he pitched well for the Cards, got to start a playoff game against the Braves and had 5 WP, 4BB and 3 HBP in the first inning.

Wouldn't matter. The Braves rely on popups with lots of guys on base to generate their offense in the postseason.

Eight people received NL Rookie of the Year votes in 2000. Ankiel is one of only three who are still playing, along with Juan Pierre and Rafael Furcal. Ankiel was/is probably younger than all the rest, but he has outlasted Lance Berkman, Pat Burrell, Jay Payton, Mitch Meluskey, and, of course, Chuck Smith.

outlasted Lance Berkman

Not yet.

he has outlasted Lance Berkman

I don't think Berkman has technically retired yet, has he?

I was trying to think of other Kieschnick types, guys who'd pitched early on as amateurs or early in their pro careers, and then did so later on as well. Two of the better-known guys who pitched some late in their careers are Jimmie Foxx and Granny Hamner, both of whom came up extremely young to the majors and don't seem to have pitched at all as teenagers, at least above the sandlot level. The Rangers had a shortstop named Jeff Kunkel who tried a comeback as a pitcher, but he too doesn't seem to have pitched early on, either in college or the minor leagues.

I was just going by Wikipedia:

On October, 3rd, 2012, Berkman was given one last at-bat before he announced he would be retiring.

According to Wikipedia, Wikipedia is official. But I can change that.

Even if Berkman retires, Ankiel would have to make it back to outlast him.

I was trying to think of other Kieschnick types, guys who'd pitched early on as amateurs or early in their pro careers, and then did so later on as well. Two of the better-known guys who pitched some late in their careers are Jimmie Foxx and Granny Hamner, both of whom came up extremely young to the majors and don't seem to have pitched at all as teenagers, at least above the sandlot level.

After his major league career was over, Mark Lemke pitched a little bit - very badly - in an independent league. I seem to recall he had come up with a knuckleball.

Not so, says Scott Boras:

https://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/264407230844133376

Same here. Obviously you can choose to look at it as "what might have been," but I'd prefer to look at it as a "wow, here's a guy who reinvented himself twice just to keep playing ball." I think Ankiel getting back to the big leagues as a pitcher would be one of the better baseball stories I'd ever see.

This. It would be a great story for sure, even if he does end up pitching well for the stupid Cardinals.

I'm not surprised by the rumor, nor am I surprised it's not true.

Anybody who want to relive the Ankiel pitching experience can check out this video.

That video was uncomfortable to watch.

I would imagine the odds are astronomical against Rick making it back to MLB as a pitcher.
I certainly admired his pluck, and his throwing arm from CF.
When he and Harper were in CF and RF respectively, the Nationals had two of the best cannon-arm in any MLB outfield

I wouldn't say astronomical, Jingo. But I think he's more likely to come back in relief than as a starter.

BB-Ref's stats for Ruth are not exactly the same as what's in the Lahman db.

BB-Ref switched to Pete Palmer's database a couple of years ago.

I was trying to think of other Kieschnick types, guys who'd pitched early on as amateurs or early in their pro careers, and then did so later on as well.

The Red Sox toyed with the idea of using Dave McCarty as a Kieschnick, but he only ended up throwing 3.2 innings. He looked OK out there, and it was a little disappointing that they didn't continue using him as a mop-up guy or a second LOOGY.

Mel Queen of the Reds transitioned from OF to P in the mid '60's. One very good year and was OK to mediocre for a few more years as a pitcher. John Olerud probably could have pitched in an emergency: he was a good college pitcher.

Ankiel as uber utility man who can switch from OF to situational lefty in the late innings has been my dream for years

Johnny Lindell is a guy who pitched early, became an outfielder, then pitched again late in his career. Kieschnick was more of a Clint Hartung type.

IIRC, one issue with switching back and forth is that you don't get any warmup pitches when you come back to the mound from another position mid-inning.

But someone has got to have a player who can pitch and play the field again soon. Trying to maximize the 25-man roster means multifunctional players area a dream. I think a mop-up pitcher would be more likely than a situational pitcher, but the lefty-lefty matchup is so popular now that a guy like ANkiel might yet make it.

Of course, this will add yet more delays to any game the guy is used in, leading many more fans to shoot themselves rather than suffer through a dozen pitching changes.

What happened to Tony Pena, Jr.'s conversion to the mound?

I don't necessarilly think what Boras said means it isn't happening though. The idea being that he isn't looking to be signed as anything other than a position player now (and that is the only deals Boras and Ankiel are looking for right now), but that he's pondering it as a back up sort of thing.

Although it's probably just a random thought Strauss wrote about.

Ankiel made two of the probably 5 best throws I've seen an OF make in the same game. Also the Cards need a LOOGY.

McCarver was as stupid and annoying in 2000 as he is today. Good to know.

CHRIST does LaRussa look young though.

Anybody who want to relive the Ankiel pitching experience can check out this video.

What I notice from that is that Buck's son was talking about how the Cardinals screwed with Ankiel's delivery because he'd had a series of arm troubles.

McCarver was as stupid and annoying in 2000 as he is today. Good to know.

Exactly my reaction.

What I notice from that is that Buck's son was talking about how the Cardinals screwed with Ankiel's delivery because he'd had a series of arm troubles.

I noticed that as well...

They weren't directly responding to one another but it seemed like McCarver said "he's throwing across his body, that's the problem here", and Buck later said "The Cardinals felt in spring training that his tendency to throw across his body was hurting his arm so they tried to get him to change it".

I think Buck's assertion that he never had control problems before that may not be entirely accurate. Obviously, that was a whole new level of lack of control, but looking at his major and minor league numbers before October 2000 his walk rates were a bit higher than you'd like to see (though not anything out of the ordinary for a young strikeout pitcher...sort of a Gio Gonzalez type guy).

Also second the sentiment that that video is very difficult to watch.

Thanks for the mentions of Lindell and Queen, guys, this is very interesting stuff.

5: Wouldn't that push Ankiel off the list?

The Brewers traded flameout pitching prospect Ben Hendrickson (whose last game in the majors was also hard to watch) to the Royals just before the 2007 season for Quebecois catcher and career minor-leaguer Maxim St. Pierre (anagrams: "Marxist Empire" and "Primates Remix").

MSP had begun his pro career ridiculously young, turning 17 less than two months before the 1997 draft that saw the Tigers take him in the 26th round. He'd played his whole career, ten years, for Detroit before signing with Kansas City as a free agent only a couple months before the Hendrickson trade. He played in just ten games for Milwaukee's AA affiliate, Huntsville, before, as I recall, quitting to become a pitcher. He was 27 at this point.

I don't remember what happened to his nascent pitching career, but come 2008 St. Pierre was back catching in Detroit's system, and he was eventually rewarded with six games in the majors with the Tigers in 2010. He even got a couple hits, including bagging a two-bagger (career .248 MiLB average).

Now, what's especially interesting to me is that, after quitting or being let go by the Tigers after 2011, he kept playing in the independent Can-Am Association, for his hometown Capitales de Quebec--but exclusively as a pitcher. He pitched (terribly) in 11 relief appearances last year while not recording a plate appearance, but he did notch a win. Looking at his career from 1997-2009, I don't think you'd predict either an MLB double or a profession win in his future, but baseball is a funny game.