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Friday, September 17, 2004

Rob Neyer: Tate: The 700 Club Coulda-beens

Scribbly Tate has a look at those who could have hit 700 home runs…

On Jimmie Foxx…..The only pitcher that ever stopped ol’ Double X was a fella by the name of John Barleycorn. Foxxy had 500 homers by his 13th birthday, just about, but he didn’t get much beyond that owing to the bottle-izing. As a barman at the Hotel Commodore once told him after pouring him his umpteenth drink of the evening, “Good gracious, Mr. Foxx, you drink more than Mr. Tate!”

and if Mike Rogodzinski had any power…he could have made up the 698 he fell short by!

Repoz Posted: September 17, 2004 at 07:21 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Gavvy's Cravat Posted: September 17, 2004 at 07:50 PM (#860830)

I was hoping for a treatise on constitutional law...

2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 17, 2004 at 07:59 PM (#860840)

I can't believe Pat Robertson wasn't mentioned once.

3. bunyon Posted: September 17, 2004 at 07:59 PM (#860842)

Mays easy.

Williams maybe.

That's it.

4. BDC

Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:16 PM (#860873)

Of course, nearly every player has disadvantages like those that Scribbly colorfully describes. Perhaps most amazing is that Ruth got to 700 after several years as a dead-ball pitcher and despite losing half-seasons in 1922 and 1925 to various misadventures. Bonds is there despite the Strike and considerable missed time in 1999 and 2003. Henry Aaron is one of the very few cases where you can't say "what if things had broken right for him" -- and even Aaron had to hit in the teeth of the 1960s pitchers' domination.

5. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:19 PM (#860878)

That's my thinking too, Bunyon.

It would be interesting to see what the sluggers of old could have done in some of the modern hitter-friendly stadiums. I'm thinking specifically of Ruth and Gehrig together in Coors. That could be interesting enough to construct a solo OOTP league to see how it would play out...

6. A triple short of the cycle

Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:31 PM (#860888)

Is Scribbly Tate a parody of Ray Ratto? Ugh.

7. Guapo Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:33 PM (#860891)

Posted by Ike Farrell on September 17, 2004 at 04:30 PM (#860068)

This column SUCKED. BOOOOOOOOOOOO

8. bunyon Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:35 PM (#860895)

I'm thinking specifically of Ruth and Gehrig together in Coors.

My guess is that if Ruth had existed today, and you keep him as relatively dominant, his homers wouldn't go up much, but his IBB and BB records would be intact.

9. Adam Yauch Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:50 PM (#860929)

"My guess is that if Ruth had existed today, and you keep him as relatively dominant, his homers wouldn't go up much, but his IBB and BB records would be intact."

In "relatively dominant" are you also assuming that Ruth uses the same steroids that Jeff Kent said he did?

10. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 17, 2004 at 08:57 PM (#860941)

Posted by 6 - 4 - 3 on September 17, 2004 at 04:19 PM (#860878)
That's my thinking too, Bunyon.

It would be interesting to see what the sluggers of old could have done in some of the modern hitter-friendly stadiums. I'm thinking specifically of Ruth and Gehrig together in Coors. That could be interesting enough to construct a solo OOTP league to see how it would play out...

Just for fun, I ran a Strat-O-Matic advanced replay (which uses ballpark effects), and put the 1927 Ruth on the 1999 Colorado Rockies to see how he'd hit in Coors.

Ruth hit .386 with 84 homers - 49 in Coors...

11. BobT Posted: September 17, 2004 at 09:11 PM (#860969)

Rob takes one for the team

12. Moe Jorgan Posted: September 17, 2004 at 09:28 PM (#860991)

Apologies? We don't do apologies at ESPN, Neyer. Stick to your guns!

13. Ralph Malph Posted: September 17, 2004 at 09:35 PM (#861004)

I'm waiting for Ike Farrell's column on this.

14. Joey B. has ignited his October #Natitude Posted: September 17, 2004 at 09:45 PM (#861020)

Jeez, I've known for a some time now that Neyer is a shameless self-promoter; now I realize he's an incredibly petty (not to mention gutless) shameless self-promoter. It really doesn't get much more pathetic than that. I imagine it must kill him that Billy Beane actually likes the book.

15. Adam Yauch Posted: September 17, 2004 at 09:59 PM (#861036)

Joey B., I'm not sure I read you. Do you really think Neyer posted a review on Amazon and then escalated the situation for selfish reasons? If so it didn't exactly work out for him. I think Neyer wrote what he thought to be a harmless review in the heat of the moment and never envisioned the possible consequences. I'm not sure any of what transpired could have been reasonably expected. And in the end none of it looks particularly good for Neyer.

I'm assuming ESPN forced Neyer's hand for the apology which is pretty lame. If they think Neyer embarassed them they should take a look at some of the columns that go up on their damn web site.

16. BobT Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:08 PM (#861049)

I've met Rob at SABR conventions and he came in to where I work and I didn't get the impression at all that he is a self-promoter.

He's just a guy like all of us who makes mistakes in this world. It's just that his are noticed by more people.

No one's coming after me because after I told the guy I couldn't answer his question on what the average price of California corn was over the last 20 years and sent him away, that I found the answer.

17. JoMo the master pitch framer Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:09 PM (#861053)

Joey B., how's he petty? He just wrote an apology. Is there something in the apology that stikes you as petty?

18. Adam Yauch Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:11 PM (#861056)

Oh please, like you're the real Michael Diamond!

19. Colin Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:16 PM (#861061)

Great, the good Neyer stuff ESPN hides on the Insider page, but that they cover out in teh public section. Bah.

What's the book in question? And how'd the baseball writer figure out Rob wrote the review?

20. Joey B. has ignited his October #Natitude Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:17 PM (#861063)

Is there something in the apology that stikes you as petty?

Not at all. However, writing a negative review under a fake name on someone who just so happened to write about a similar topic that you did, and to then get yourself all worked up into a lather over the fact that other people then had the audacity to follow up your review with positive reviews, that to me is petty beyond belief. I see that other reporters have called him on it, and rightfully so, and it would appear that his employers called him on it as well.

21. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:22 PM (#861074)

The irony, of course, is who didn't have a visceral reaction to Rob's book way-back-when? Visceral maybe isn't the right word--comatose-like?

Anyway, what was the book in question?

22. Didi Dodo Doodoo (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:23 PM (#861076)

This is a Neyer thread (sort of)...

Neyer apologizes for anonymous review.

23. Adam Yauch Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:23 PM (#861078)

Colin, here's the story.

24. Repoz

Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:30 PM (#861089)

Colin....

Here is the Primer thread.

25. Didi Dodo Doodoo (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:30 PM (#861090)

Eh, sorry Bob T, I didn't follow your link and didn't realize you had posted the Neyer apology.

My bad...

26. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:31 PM (#861094)

What is the average price of California corn over the last 20 years?

27. Colin Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:33 PM (#861098)

Thanks, folks; somehow I missed the original thread here. What a bizarre story.

28. BobT Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:34 PM (#861101)

It varies a lot. And over a 20-year period, it's not a useful statistic.

California doesn't record the price by bushel, but by cwt.

I wrote cwt. because I didn't bother to figure out what it stood for.

29. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:49 PM (#861142)

I demand an apology for that non-answer.

Just because it's not a useful statistic doesn't mean it doesn't have a place on BTF.

30. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:52 PM (#861146)

And cwt is centweight (I think) or hundred weight... I don't know if that means the weight of a hundred kernels or whatever a corned cob is called.

31. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: September 17, 2004 at 10:54 PM (#861149)

Actually, it looks like it means per 100 pounds. Which is a lot more boring.

32. Bob T Posted: September 17, 2004 at 11:48 PM (#861341)

In 2002, California sweet corn sold for $24.80/per cwt.

For the past 20 years, I would have to get out a bunch of old books and then add the prices up.

I tell people that with most economic stats, "If you think the statistic is one that you have to figure out yourself, it's probably not worth keeping track of." In other words, most useful statistics are usually figured out ahead of time.

Here is a link to a page where you can get historic milk prices

33. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: September 18, 2004 at 12:02 AM (#861392)

What if you're coming up with advanced corn metrics like $CWT+ or DIPS $cwt?

34. Bhaakon Posted: September 18, 2004 at 12:10 AM (#861416)

What's the replacement value of an ear of corn?

35. Gavvy's Cravat Posted: September 18, 2004 at 12:10 AM (#861417)

DIPS $cwt

I assume this would be based on the three true outcomes: fresh, canned, frozen.

36. Bob T Posted: September 18, 2004 at 12:19 AM (#861449)

Wholesale egg prices in California (by the dozen)
1997 $0.62
1998 $0.56
1999 $0.48
2000 $0.45
2001 $0.47
2002 $0.39

But you may be asking, "Just what does the price of eggs have to do with this?"

37. PGH Posted: September 18, 2004 at 04:26 PM (#862744)

Ichiro could hit 700 home runs if he wanted to.

38. Bangkok9 eschews 1 from Column A Posted: September 18, 2004 at 04:36 PM (#862750)

Could not!

39. Old Matt Posted: September 18, 2004 at 04:48 PM (#862760)

Colin....

Here is the Primer thread.

I miss that thread. Has to get a nomination for one of the best this year.

40. Buford J. Sharkley Posted: September 18, 2004 at 05:03 PM (#862775)

Does Rob Neyer's page now have no form of archive whatsoever?

I was hoping to look at an old Scribbly Tate article..... the one about baseball, before standings were allowed to be published..... but I can't find any sort of way to navigate.

There used to be an archive, right? Is this ESPN Insider's doin'?

41. Ralph Malph Posted: September 21, 2004 at 01:39 AM (#865794)

What does all this have to do with the price of tea in China?

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Rob Neyer: Tate: The 700 Club Coulda-beens

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