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Monday, December 30, 2013

Rob Parker: Yeah, I’m Voting For PED Users In The MLB Hall of Fame

Rob Parker to pay Paul Lo Duca? No way no how!

For sure, this columnist is in the minority. I’m willing to vote for great players who were caught up in the performance enhancing drug scandal that rocked MLB, while most of my brethren aren’t.

Some sports writers are so caught up on punishing the Steroid Era that they have overvalued previous players that simply aren’t Hall-worthy, including Jim Rice, Goose Gossage, Andre Dawson and Bert Blyleven.

By doing so, they are almost doing more damage to the American Pastime than the players who used PEDs.

They’ve blurred the lines, skewed the facts and now use that new math we never adopted 40 years ago in this country.

They are wrong, dead wrong.

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa all belong. But not Rafael Palmeiro, who tested positive after MLB’s anti-PED rules were in place.

My way of voting is simple: If there’s a debate, based on your numbers, about you being in the Hall of Fame, you AREN’T a Hall of Famer.

No way, no how

Jack Morris never won a Cy Young and has chubby 3.90 ERA. Jeff Bagwell wasn’t a career .300 hitter, doesn’t have 3,000 hits. Mike Piazza has no magic numbers, falling more than 70 short of 500 homers. Mike Mussina has very good numbers and will get consideration from some, but they aren’t HOF numbers to me. He never won a Cy Young or led the league in earned run average.

Palmeiro has two magic numbers with 3,020 hits and 569 HRs. Because he failed a PED test after new rules were in place, he probably will never get in. I’ve never voted for him.

 

Repoz Posted: December 30, 2013 at 07:44 PM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: December 30, 2013 at 07:56 PM (#4626795)
He voted for PED users, but still only voted for nine, including Lee Smith.
   2. AJMcCringleberry Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:01 PM (#4626798)
That excerpt started so well.
   3. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:06 PM (#4626800)
Mike Piazza has no magic numbers, falling more than 70 short of 500 homers.


Yeah, he's a slouch, just like Bench and Berra and those guys.
   4. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:10 PM (#4626803)
Edes on ESPNBoston.com voted for a bunch of PED players this year too, but his ballot is marred by the inclusion of Jack Morris. Still a good ballot by Edes:

* Jeff Bagwell
* Barry Bonds
* Roger Clemens
* Tom Glavine
* Greg Maddux
* Jack Morris
* Mike Piazza
* Tim Raines
* Curt Schilling
* Frank Thomas

He notes that "Me, I could have used a couple more picks, to include Craig Biggio and Edgar Martinez, and strong arguments can be made for Mike Mussina, Alan Trammell and Larry Walker as well."
   5. Pete L. Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4626806)
He's a troll looking to tweak people who care for page views. Like Hang said, he voted for nine, including Lee Smith, and of the rest, only saw fit to even discuss Morris and Palmeiro beyond those nine, dismissing the rest as "all fall[ing too] short to even debate their worthiness." Even disregarding PEDs, there are several candidates he dismissed who are better than Smith, McGwire, Sosa, and Biggio. I wouldn't go so far as to say those guys don't deserve a vote, because if the rules allowed I might vote for all of them (maybe not Smith), but JEEZ.
   6. LargeBill Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4626816)
It is amazing how marginal his knowledge of the game is as displayed by the couple stats he manages to cite to dismiss players. He has heard of home runs (but believes less than 500 is damning for a catcher despite no catcher ever hitting 500), seems to be aware of ERA (though I doubt he could figure out what it means), thinks 3,000 hits is a minimum level for HoF.

Is Parker competing with Chass & CHB for dumbest column explaining their vote?
   7. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4626817)
So pretty much 300 wins, 3000 hits, 500 home runs or the career save record is all that matters?
   8. ptodd Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:31 PM (#4626821)
He got off to a good start but his reliance on magic numbers as a criteria for admission is sad. Just vote for the best players and if the HOF wants to put an asterisk next to their name let them do so. Especially for players in pre-testing era, it was the Wild West where far more players than we know were taking PED's and amphetamines had been around since the 50's. Heck, even today we still have legal PED's like DHEA, creatine, Toradol, cortisonene, etc
   9. TJ Posted: December 30, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4626834)
We've had this idiot for far too long in the Detroit area. Next time you get in a debate with someone extolling the virtues of the BBWAA doing the HOF voting, remember that saying "Rob Parker gets to vote" trumps all opposing arguments.
   10. TJ Posted: December 30, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4626839)
By the way, since we've had Chass, CHB, Parker, etc, announce their votes (and I had Tim Kawakami!), I ask all primates, "What HOF voter are you still looking forward to hearing from?" The early leader in the clubhouse has to be Jon Heyman...
   11. dr. scott Posted: December 30, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4626843)
I thought barry did fail a drug test for amps though. It takes a second positive to trigger a suspension for amps (or it used to at least), so maybe that is what he means...
   12. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 30, 2013 at 09:22 PM (#4626845)
I thought Barry did fail a drug test for amps though.

Well, Bonds is a known associate of Willie Mays.
   13. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4626867)
The full text of the link to Parker's comments:

Try running rake routes for more information on available routes.


I'll bear that in mind.

   14. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: December 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4626873)
I ask all primates, "What HOF voter are you still looking forward to hearing from?" The early leader in the clubhouse has to be Jon Heyman...


Have the guys from the Golf Channel voted yet? There was a group of three of them last year, right?
   15. Cooper Nielson Posted: December 30, 2013 at 10:33 PM (#4626886)
We've had this idiot for far too long in the Detroit area. Next time you get in a debate with someone extolling the virtues of the BBWAA doing the HOF voting, remember that saying "Rob Parker gets to vote" trumps all opposing arguments.

Yeah, I'm glad that he voted for Bonds and Clemens and his overall ballot is ultimately not that bad (Lee Smith is the only one I strongly disagree with), but the explanation of how he got there is a steaming pile of something or other.
   16. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 30, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4626893)
Jesus H Christ...Mike Piazza was a ####### catcher, A CATCHER! Your penalizing him for not hitting 500 HR? Just because he didn't hit 600-700 HR like Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra.
   17. madvillain Posted: December 30, 2013 at 11:33 PM (#4626908)

We've had this idiot for far too long in the Detroit area. Next time you get in a debate with someone extolling the virtues of the BBWAA doing the HOF voting, remember that saying "Rob Parker gets to vote" trumps all opposing arguments.


Well said. Detroit has Henning and Green too, who are both dinosaurs. Wob Parker is a cornball brotha.
   18. Cooper Nielson Posted: December 30, 2013 at 11:56 PM (#4626921)
Well said. Detroit has Henning and Green too, who are both dinosaurs.

Henning's not so bad. His HOF ballots have been pretty good, and though he's a bit old-fashioned, he at least seems open-minded.
   19. vivaelpujols Posted: December 31, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4626930)
Henning has a perfect 100 on Tango's ranking:

http://tangotiger.com/index.php/site/article/most-perfect-hof-ballots

   20. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: December 31, 2013 at 01:03 AM (#4626937)
My way of voting is simple: If there’s a debate, based on your numbers, about you being in the Hall of Fame, you AREN’T a Hall of Famer.


Because we all know nobody's numbers say "slam dunk" quite like Lee Smith's.
   21. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 31, 2013 at 01:50 AM (#4626949)
I used to assume Henning was old-fashioned. Talking with him, he's actually quite open-minded about sabermetrics (and it takes some balls to be a Detroit writer not voting for Morris). One of my biggest lessons the first couple years I worked with ESPN was that *I* was being close-minded. Yeah, there are crazy obnoxious old cranks out there like Murray Chass, but the percentage of them is waaaaay smaller that I thought. There are a lot of writers out there curious about sabermetrics to various degrees. For a bunch of writers, it's a comfort level thing and they don't feel confident enough to convey the information accurately to a wide, mainstream audience.
   22. pikepredator Posted: December 31, 2013 at 10:18 AM (#4627018)
For a bunch of writers, it's a comfort level thing and they don't feel confident enough to convey the information accurately to a wide, mainstream audience


interesting. As an FJM fan I can see how that kind of discourse might discourage people from making references to advanced stats, out of a fear of being excoriated for trying and somehow falling short.
   23. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4627041)
I thought Barry did fail a drug test for amps though.


I think he was just experimenting for his cycling hobby.
   24. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 31, 2013 at 10:59 AM (#4627057)
Young people always think old people are stupid and grumpy for no good reason, until they sit down and have an actual conversation with some actual old people.
   25. TRBMB Posted: December 31, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4627108)
I hope the BBWAA picks nobody on Jan 8 so that this collection of dopes can be dumped. Dump the Dopes.
   26. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 31, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4627159)
One of my biggest lessons the first couple years I worked with ESPN was that *I* was being close-minded.


I actually think this is the bigger issue - not that the *writers* are being close-minded, but that the *analysts* are.

-- MWE
   27. base ball chick Posted: December 31, 2013 at 01:44 PM (#4627192)
barry lamar DID fail an amphetamine test while still actively playing. nobody cared. because nobody thinks that amphetamines do anything. and besides everyone used them BITGOD, don't ask me why - oh yeah, they were all drunks and hungover from partrying all night. i got people tell me the only reason that amphetamines are on the banned list NOW is because they are illegal and MLB threw a bone to the pro-roiders who want to know why amphetamines are not on the banned list. next i suppose they will put barbituates on the banned list because they are illegal too.
   28. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 31, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4627388)
Young people always think old people are stupid and grumpy for no good reason, until they sit down and have an actual conversation with some actual old people.


And then we KNOW the old cranks are just full of it.

Now that I'm 41, I'm closing in on "old-crankdom", but open-mindedness is something that is inversely proportional to age for a pretty large swath of society. It just is. You get set in your ways and become unwilling to compromise.

Except Harvey.

He's bad-ass.
   29. Publius Publicola Posted: December 31, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4627467)
but open-mindedness is something that is inversely proportional to age for a pretty large swath of society.


Or, they just know better, because they've been there and done that, and so they only seem close-minded.
   30. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 31, 2013 at 09:31 PM (#4627471)
I'm getting more and more open-minded, but that's to be expected as the space between my remaining brain cells increases.
   31. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 31, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4627483)
I really try to be openminded but it's too damn hard. It's so much easier wallowing in ignorance.

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