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As good as Trout is, he's no Peter Bourjos.

Catcher—Yadier Molina, Marlins

???????

2 out of 8 ain't bad.

As good as Trout is, he's no Peter Bourjos.

With Bourjos and Trout in the outfield, I'll call the 2013 Cy Young Award for Jered Weaver.

Fielding Bible credits Ryan with 27 DRS, and B-Ref gives him 3.6 dWAR. Andrelton Simmons was credited with 19 DRS and 2.4 dWAR. Ryan was in the field for 1170 innings, against 426 for Simmons. So, on a rate basis, well, that's awfully impressive for Andrelton Simmons.

Yeah, yeah, defensive numbers in small sample sizes and all that. If Simmons plays a full season next year, he's not putting up a 6.6 dWAR (his 2011 rate over 1170 innings). But still.

Dewan, the author of the book, The Fielding Bible, called Ryan—a first-time winner—the “best defender in baseball.”

This bothers me. If he is the best defender in baseball, how is he just now (at age 30) finally winning his first Fielding Bible award?

He's been as close to consensus best SS in baseball around here for a couple of years, for what it's worth. Since this isn't totally objective, it's just as subject to bias and blindness as the regular gold glove.

Sometimes it takes time to build up a reputation. The Mariner's broadcasters naturally hype their own players, but I didn't hear Ryan pumped up last year nearly as much as this season.

As good as Trout is, he's no Peter Bourjos.

How doe the Angels get all these amazing CF defenders -- Pettis, White, Edmonds, Erstad, Trout, Bourjos? And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

How doe the Angels get all these amazing CF defenders -- Pettis, White, Edmonds, Erstad, Trout, Bourjos? And these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

You forgot Vernon Wells.

how is he just now (at age 30) finally winning his first Fielding Bible award?

Dewan says he was 2nd inn runs saved 2009-10 but first in 2011 so the question is why didn't he win it last year.

On the other hand, he says Seattle values his defense which is why they trot him out there game after game. Ignoring the earlier bit this season when they were saying he needed to get the average up to stay in the lineup (which they chickened out on), they only gave him 134 starts this season. That's his career high so teams are more than happy to put him on the bench for about 40 games a year. Which is about the same as other lousy hitting, great fielding SS of the last couple of decades.

You forgot Vernon Wells.

And, continuing with the snark, GMj and, non-snarkily, Torii Hunter although he wasn't top notch by the time he got there -- and it's no mystery how he got there.

Bourjos is amazing, indeed. I know he was injured some this year, but if he can't hit above .220, he's going to be a CF version of John Vukovich, the 3B I mentioned in another thread recently. Vukovich was a better fielder than Mike Schmidt, but for some reason he didn't get many starts over Schmidt at third base :)

Why didn't Bourjos attempt to steal bases this season?

I'm amazed how great Alex Gordon has become. I never in a million years thought he would transition this well to the outfield.

I'm amazed how great Alex Gordon has become. I never in a million years thought he would transition this well to the outfield.

Well, if you don't completely lack foot speed, LF should be quite a bit easier than 3B. A lot of his defensive value comes from his arm, and it makes perfect sense a former 3B would have a great arm for a LF.

I'm more surprised that after 1600+ PAs as a 95 OPS+ hitter, he's broken out into what he was supposed to be offensively. He really took that age-27 season stuff seriously.

What does Guildenstern think, then?

What does Guildenstern think, then?

He thinks he did a hell of a job at Chattanooga, but choked at Chickamauga.

Ordinarily it would be a surprise if a 30-year-old shortstop was the best fielder at his position, but Ryan didn't come out of nowhere. He's been around for a while, but he can't hit, so he doesn't play enough for people to notice him. Only on the 2012 Mariners could someone like that become a defensive darling.

Dewan says he was 2nd inn runs saved 2009-10 but first in 2011 so the question is why didn't he win it last year.

That is kind of what I was trying to get at, rather than "Ryan can't be the best in baseball because he didn't win anything last year."

Bourjos is amazing, indeed. I know he was injured some this year, but if he can't hit above .220, he's going to be a CF version of John Vukovich, the 3B I mentioned in another thread recently. Vukovich was a better fielder than Mike Schmidt, but for some reason he didn't get many starts over Schmidt at third base :)

Nope. Peter at .220 is still miles ahead of the guy Sparky Anderson called Balsa Wood, who hit 161/203/222. And Peter has already hit .270 in the season where he was allowed to play full time. Balsa Wood was even worse than another Angel prospect who must be his cousin Brandon, who hit 186/222/289.

Somehow I had totally missed that Ryan was regarded as a great defensive player. Of course, he can't hit worth #### and he's played nearly 700 games in six years, so perhaps I should have figured it out.

22 posts in and no talk about Barney?

A lot of his defensive value comes from his arm

Well, sort of, I suppose, but Gordon's UZR is also tops amongst left fielders. So a lot of his defensive value comes from his range as well. It's unfair and incorrect to state that he ranks highly because of his arm.

This bothers me. If he is the best defender in baseball, how is he just now (at age 30) finally winning his first Fielding Bible award?

didn't even come up to the majors until he was 25.

he was always well regarded as a defender, but i think he was overshadowed by other personalities on the cardinal teams.

he had a rep for being a bit flaky, and that was bad for him when he was on the cardinals, which is a team that was well known for being a really intense group because of TLR. ryan was the guy who got chewed out in the locker room by chris carpenter for running out on the field with the wrong glove, then running back in to the locker room to get the right glove, all this in the middle of a game.

i saw him in a series or two at dodger stadium, he really can pick it, as they used to say. if he's not the best in the majors, he's in the elite.

Well, sort of, I suppose, but Gordon's UZR is also tops amongst left fielders. So a lot of his defensive value comes from his range as well. It's unfair and incorrect to state that he ranks highly because of his arm.

Look at the UZR breakdown on FanGraphs.

2011 Arm +11.2 runs, Range -2.1 runs, Errors 1.4 runs, Total 10.5
2012 Arm +7.7 runs, Range 4.4 runs, Errors, 1.9 runs, Total 14.1

In total 18.9 of his 24.6 fielding runs are Arm, 2.3 Range, and 3.2 Errors.

It is absolutely fair and correct to say he only ranks highly b/c of his arm.

How the hell do you save 11 runs with your arm in LF?

if he can't hit above .220, he's going to be a CF version of John Vukovich

Or a CF version of Gary Pettis.

I'm curious to see what the Angels are going to do in the OF for 2013. I'd be tempted to resign Hunter at a reasonable price and mainly go Trout/Bourjos/Hunter (or maybe it's time for Hunter to move to LF). But then I don't believe in Trumbo, maybe they do. Anyway, I doubt there's a combination where a healthy Bourjos doesn't get 400+ PA.