BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Rosenthal: Angelos’ involvement could be delaying Bedard deal

Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Rosenthal: Angelos’ involvement could be delaying Bedard deal

Smooth-Tread Yak wheels are in place…take it away Robothal.

Without Bedard and Roberts, an 11th straight losing season would be a near-certainty, a potential 110-loss nightmare. But at least the Orioles would be playing the percentages, acquiring as many gifted young players as possible, knowing that not all will succeed. Their fans would rejoice if the franchise returned to its player-development roots. Many hold fonder memories of the youthful 1989 team that contended until the final weekend than the store-bought clubs that reached the postseason in ‘96 and ‘97.

A Bedard trade, sources say, would bring Jones — a Torii Hunter-Mike Cameron-Chris Young type — along with at least one highly regarded pitching prospect — Chris Tillman. A Roberts trade could bring outfielder Felix Pie and pitcher Sean Gallagher from the Cubs along with one or two marketable veterans.

What are the Orioles waiting for?

The answer had better not be their owner.

Repoz Posted: January 29, 2008 at 12:54 PM | 130 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: mariners, orioles

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages < 1 2

101. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2678720)

Unless he happens to blow four of his first seven save opportunities in April, in which case he's condemned to never be a closer ever again and his trade value is shot.

102. salfino Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2678750)

Yes, Baron, you're right. But if Joe Borowski can do it, anyone can.

103. salfino Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:43 PM (#2678754)

(Plus Sherrill is very good.)

104. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2678758)

After you make him a closer for half a year, Sherrill will get you a better prospect than the prospect you can get instead of him right now.

How moneyball-ish :-) That has to be way beyond the capability of the O's at this point.

105. Mike Emeigh

Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2678762)

After you make him a closer for half a year, Sherrill will get you a better prospect than the prospect you can get instead of him right now.

106. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: January 29, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2678770)

Fans talk that way, but as we've discussed elsewhere, teams don't act that way. They rarely flip role players, especially successful ones, for prospects at the deadline, and when they do, the prospects they get aren't normally very good.

If Sherrill performs well, there will be a ton of interest. I'm not what you could get, but teams are always looking for good BP help, especially left handed, at the deadline.

107. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: January 29, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2678787)

If Sherrill performs well, there will be a ton of interest. I'm not what you could get, but teams are always looking for good BP help, especially left handed, at the deadline.

I'd buy that claim more if you could provide us with a list of such trades over the last 5 years. Even Linebrink, one of the best relievers traded in the last 5 years, brought just one Grade B prospect, and two throw-ins.

108. Mike Emeigh

Posted: January 29, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2678788)

teams are always looking for good BP help, especially left handed, at the deadline.

109. Mike Emeigh

Posted: January 29, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2678790)

At the deadline last year, the Padres traded Royce Ring to the Braves for Wil Ledezma and Will Startup. Ledezma was on the verge of being released by Atlanta, and Startup is another LOOGY-type.

-- MWE

110. salfino Posted: January 29, 2008 at 09:29 PM (#2678808)

If Sherrill's doing well, why would the Orioles trade him? And if Sherrill's NOT doing well, why would the Orioles expect to get a better prospect for him at midseason than they'd get in a trade right now for Bedard?

First question: Because he'd have little chance of being a significant contributor to the next good Orioles team. (Of course, this assumes a rational baseball man is in charge.)

Second question: If he's not doing well, you're right, of course. But there's more upside than downside in flipping him because (A) he's good and (B) he's got a reputation of being a LOOGY but has stuff and stats that make a good case that he can be at least a 8th-inning guy and possibly a closer.

111. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: January 29, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2678822)

If Sherrill's doing well, why would the Orioles trade him? And if Sherrill's NOT doing well, why would the Orioles expect to get a better prospect for him at midseason than they'd get in a trade right now for Bedard?

Well, I don't think the O's will trade him if he's doing well unless a team overpays. I'm just saying that he'll be a sought after commodity come July if he's doing well. As safino point out, he's doesn't have much value on a rebuilding team so I would like see him traded. And as other people have pointed out, it's silly that he's being included in a potential Bedard trade.

At the deadline last year, the Padres traded Royce Ring to the Braves for Wil Ledezma and Will Startup. Ledezma was on the verge of being released by Atlanta, and Startup is another LOOGY-type.

That's just one example. If Sherrill is doing well, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent relief prospect for Sherrill come July or now.

112. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:17 PM (#2678903)

After you make him a closer for half a year, Sherrill will get you a better prospect than the prospect you can get instead of him right now.

Sherrill is a pretty good pitcher, so there's always the chance, however remote, that he turns into a lesser version of Joe Nathan. IOW, as the 4th or 5th piece of a trade, he could provide the Orioles with a lot of value over the next few years.

113. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2678909)

~~(Plus Sherrill is very good.)~~ (Plus Sherrill had one random good reliever season at age 30.)

Fixed that for you.

114. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM (#2678916)

Texas did get a decent return for Mahay. By all accounts, Beau Jones and Matt Harrison were added so Braves could get Mahay

115. salfino Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2678931)

Fixed that for you.

I disagree. Last year is more than 1/3 Sherrill's career innings. And his peripherals prior to last year weren't bad except for the walk rate, which declined to acceptable levels. If he's found his control, and most sustain this after finding it, he's going to be very good unless he gets hurt.

116. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2678938)

You could be right, but I'm pretty much playing the probabilities. "Random good reliever season" happens a lot more often than "30-year-old journeyman suddenly turns into a relief ace."

117. DKDC Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2678951)

Well, Santana is off the market.

Does that have any affect here?

118. John M. Perkins Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:44 PM (#2678994)

Not looking into Milledge's parks, but Tacoma is a big pitchers park, and San Antonio used to be a pitchers' park when Shreveport was in the Texas League instead of Frisco.

119. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:50 PM (#2679009)

If the Orioles traded Bedard straight-up for Adam Jones, they'd be doing better than the Twins did for Santana. Angelos needs to approve this thing yesterday, because if the reported bounty for Santana is true, the Mariners are as likely as not to yank Jones off the table.

120. Boriole Forester Posted: January 29, 2008 at 10:55 PM (#2679024)

..the Mariners are as likely as not to yank Jones off the table.

Not so fast:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/quick_comment_on_jones.html

As an asbestos attorney, Angelos fancies himself an astute reader of medical reports (perhaps quite rightly), and recall this franchise has been famously burned with degenerative hips (Belle and to a lesser degreem Hoiles) and shoulders (Glenn Davis).

121. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 29, 2008 at 11:09 PM (#2679074)

You gotta figure that the O's will spin Sherrill for another B prospect or two to a team that needs a decent lefty reliever. That would add to the prospect haul that Bedard will yeild...

First,there's no reason to think that Sherill is worth a "B prospect or two."

Second, there is reason to think -- they've said so -- that the Orioles intend to <u>use</u> Sherill.

122. ddp Posted: January 30, 2008 at 08:17 AM (#2679619)

The one thing about the Twins' haul for Santana--at least the pitchers they targeted are all starters. For the life of me, I cannot get over the fact that the O's are targeting relief pitching (Sherrill, Mickolio) in a Bedard deal. I can't recall seeing a team focus so much on relief pitching when it has five billion other holes to fix. As if creating a great bullpen will cure the O's offensive woes. Man I can't stand being a fan of this horrid team. Andy MacPhail makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out. Does it take this long for him to decide what to wear and eat in the morning?

123. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 30, 2008 at 09:45 AM (#2679626)

The one thing about the Twins' haul for Santana--at least the pitchers they targeted are all starters. For the life of me, I cannot get over the fact that the O's are targeting relief pitching (Sherrill, Mickolio) in a Bedard deal. I can't recall seeing a team focus so much on relief pitching when it has five billion other holes to fix. As if creating a great bullpen will cure the O's offensive woes. Man I can't stand being a fan of this horrid team. Andy MacPhail makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out. Does it take this long for him to decide what to wear and eat in the morning?

Well, as long as The Peter is around, I don't know how much we can blame MacFail for this. Certainly I'm not happy with our GM, but I think it's most likely that we need to point fingers at the owner.

Frankly, I'm not even sure they realize that that they have offensive woes.

124. ddp Posted: January 30, 2008 at 10:29 AM (#2679629)

We can blame PGA for many things but I'm not sure PGA is directing MacPhail/Flanny/Duquette to shore up the bullpen.

And yes, they don't realize they have offensive woes.

125. ddp Posted: January 30, 2008 at 10:32 AM (#2679630)

I honestly believe they think they've solved much of the offensive production issue with Luke Scott. Well, the LF production might be improved but their SS production with Luis Hernandez and Brandon Fahey will be abominable. Seems like a wash to me.

126. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 30, 2008 at 11:09 AM (#2679634)

We can blame PGA for many things but I'm not sure PGA is directing MacPhail/Flanny/Duquette to shore up the bullpen.

ddp: I can safely say that one person who doesn't bear any responsibility for this offseason's (non-)decisions is Jim Duquette, who (able to read the writing on the wall with the hiring of MacPhail) resigned when the season ended.

Anyway, you misinterpreted what I was saying; it was this part of your post I was referring to:

Does it take this long for him to decide what to wear and eat in the morning?

We may or may not be able to blame The Peter for the overfocus on the bullpen, but we can almost definitely blame him for the delays in doing anything.

127. rlc Posted: January 30, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2680076)

Well, some of the delays perhaps. I'm pretty sure it was MacPhail's decision to not trade Bedard for whatever shiny things the Dodgers were offering back in December. He doesn't mind waiting for better offers to come along. He differs from many fans in this regard...

128. ddp Posted: January 30, 2008 at 09:20 PM (#2680119)

Ah. I see what you're saying.

Anyways, when I was referring to MacPhail/Flanny/Duke, I was speaking not only of this offseason but last offseason where the plan was to spend a ton of money on the pen and hope that overshadows all of the other holes on the team. I realize Duquette is no longer there.

129. DKDC Posted: January 30, 2008 at 09:26 PM (#2680133)

Well, the LF production might be improved but their SS production with Luis Hernandez and Brandon Fahey will be abominable. Seems like a wash to me.

It's worse than a wash.

As bad as the left fielders were offensively last year, Luis Hernandez is many degrees worse.

Page 2 of 2 pages < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Rosenthal: Angelos’ involvement could be delaying Bedard deal

Reader Comments and Retorts

Support BBTF

Bookmarks

Hot Topics