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Sunday, April 14, 2013

Rosenthal: Harper out to be better than Trout?

Claw Orange County hammer, replicate Trout.

Some of the Nationals feel that left fielder Bryce Harper plays with a chip on his shoulder, as if he has something to prove.

“To myself, yes,” Harper says. “To everyone else, I could care less.”

Another theory among certain Nats is that Harper is hell-bent on proving that he is better than the Angels’ Mike Trout, with whom he shared headlines last season as Trout won AL Rookie of the Year while Harper took NL honors.

“We made it to the playoffs last year — that’s all I’ll say about that one,” Harper said.

Repoz Posted: April 14, 2013 at 08:28 AM | 52 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, nats

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   1. Matt Welch Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4413637)
Some Magic/Bird #### going on here, one hopes. Harper's certainly blowing Trout out of the water this year.
   2. bfan Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4413640)
oh great, another super-shallow "he whose team makes the play-offs is better line" of argument. I thought baseball could avoid the stupidity that pro football has sunk too, in that regard.
   3. Publius Publicola Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4413641)
“To myself, yes,” Harper says. “To everyone else, I could care less.”

“We made it to the playoffs last year — that’s all I’ll say about that one,” Harper said.


Both of these are very mature answers for a 20 year old.
   4. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4413643)
Both of these are very mature answers for a 20 year old.


No they're not. Good god.
   5. Publius Publicola Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4413645)
So says the Braves fan.
   6. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4413646)
Forget trout, can he work to be better than gattis?
   7. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4413657)

Both of these are very mature answers for a 20 year old.


Agreed. They are trying to bait him, and he's not taking it...he's obviously not the trout. :)
   8. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4413662)
You COULDN'T care less Bryce. COULDN'T. He's young so we need to nip this in the bud.
   9. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4413669)
Bryce Harper = Babe Ruth, Mike Trout = Willie Mays. In 5 years they could both be playing for the same team.
   10. Repoz Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4413670)
Gadabout Gattis throws Trout back.
   11. Morty Causa Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4413673)
We had this discussion a number of times, Shooty. The wave of the future. Can (or Can't) you read?

I could care less.
   12. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4413678)
We had this discussion a number of times, Shooty. The wave of the future. Can (or Can't) you read?

On the most important issues of life I keep my own counsel.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4413679)
We had this discussion a number of times, Shooty. The wave of the future. Can (or Can't) you read?

I could care less.


I'm not sure the overwhelming majority of users are giving it that much thought. Rather, they just think that's the proper expression.

   14. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4413681)
Bryce Harper = Babe Ruth, Mike Trout = Willie Mays. In 5 years they could both be playing for the same team.


I doubt it. I do not see the Angels allowing Trout to go anywhere, if he comes close to repeating his numbers from last season. I imagine both guys are probably a season away from signing a 200mill contracts with their current team.
   15. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4413686)
I doubt it. I do not see the Angels allowing Trout to go anywhere, if he comes close to repeating his numbers from last season. I imagine both guys are probably a season away from signing a 200mill contracts with their current team.

No doubt. The Angels can afford Trout. Of the two, I think it's more likely Harper tests free agency, but I don't think he will, either.
   16. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4413693)
Some Magic/Bird #### going on here, one hopes.
That's exactly the way I see it. I want this to be a rivalry that lasts for ten years.
   17. Morty Causa Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4413695)
On the most important issues of life I keep my own counsel.


As opposed to the least important issues? I like that, though. Everyone is his own authority. I wonder what's the point of authority (or books) (or study)?

I'm not sure the overwhelming majority of users are giving it that much thought. Rather, they just think that's the proper expression.


That's fine. That is a legitimate stance--until you pretend that's enough to make you an authority whose duty is to lay down rules.
   18. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4413698)
As opposed to the least important issues? I like that, though. Everyone is his own authority. I wonder what's the point of authority (or books) (or study)?

There is no point in any of those things for me, for I am the Übermensch and do not cling to my chains. Behold!
   19. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:24 PM (#4413701)
Baseball Think Factory: Finding A Way To Fight About Even The Dumbest Shit Since 2002!
   20. zonk Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4413704)
We had this discussion a number of times, Shooty. The wave of the future. Can (or Can't) you read?

I could care less.


Regardless -
I'm with Shooty on this one...
   21. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4413705)
Baseball Think Factory: Finding A Way To Fight About Even The Dumbest #### Since 2002!

Isn't shit but its very nature dumb? It seems like a redundancy to me. Do better, sir.
   22. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4413706)
Baseball Think Factory: Finding A Way To Fight About Even The Dumbest #### Since 2002!


Like whether a spring snowstorm in Denver means there is no global warming?
   23. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4413707)
Like whether a spring snowstorm in Denver means there is no global warming?

Doody!
   24. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4413715)
I doubt it. I do not see the Angels allowing Trout to go anywhere, if he comes close to repeating his numbers from last season. I imagine both guys are probably a season away from signing a 200mill contracts with their current team.

I don't think that would be enough. $300 million seems like the right number.....maybe $400 million. Just eyeballing it -- 10 years = 70 WAR x $7 million/WAR = $500 million...less discount for not being FA yet and risk....blah blah. 15 years @ $400 million might be a bargain for the teams.
   25. Joey B. Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4413725)
How in the world can he possibly be better than Mike Trout when our preeminent baseball genius cardsfanboy has proclaimed that he's not even one of the top 50 position players in the game?
   26. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: April 14, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4413736)
That's exactly the way I see it. I want this to be a rivalry that lasts for ten years.

I hope so too. But Trout's slow start and weight gain gives me pause. I don't want to insult Fred Lynn's fine career, but I hope Mike Trout isn't another Fred Lynn.
   27. Baldrick Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:02 PM (#4413739)
I don't think I've ever heard someone say "I could care less" with any kind of ironic tone of voice, or any implication that it was meant ironically. It is almost always said with a vaguely bored sense of scorn or derision. So I don't really support this attempt to give the phrase 'real' meaning in that way. I think the vast majority of people MEAN "I couldn't care less" when they say it. The thing is: "I couldn't care less" does not roll off the tongue very well, and it contains a somewhat confusing double-negative. "I could care less" SOUNDS right, and so people say it, even though it literally means the opposite of what they're trying to communicate.

That said, it doesn't bother me to think that people are saying the opposite of what they 'actually' mean, since everyone KNOWS what they're trying to say. It's now just one of those idioms that doesn't make any literal sense but communicates a feeling effectively. Like "the proof is in the pudding" which is a complete mangling of the original phrase. But who cares?
   28. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:02 PM (#4413740)
You COULDN'T care less Bryce. COULDN'T.

Irregardless, it ain't that important.

Like whether a spring snowstorm in Denver means there is no global warming?

Global warming only works below 5,000 feet, silly.

I imagine both guys are probably a season away from signing a 200mill contracts with their current team.

2017: Harper and Trout demand a joint 20-year, billion dollar contract. New US president Jeb Bush fires them.
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4413758)
I don't think that would be enough. $300 million seems like the right number.....maybe $400 million. Just eyeballing it -- 10 years = 70 WAR x $7 million/WAR = $500 million...less discount for not being FA yet and risk....blah blah. 15 years @ $400 million might be a bargain for the teams.


I'm thinking 200mil to buy out three arby years along with another 4-5 free agent years...both players would be around 32 years old when that 200mil contract ends.
   30. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4413761)
So $200 million for 7 years? Maybe.
   31. Spahn Insane Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4413762)
Like whether a spring snowstorm in Denver means there is no global warming?

Doody!


That's the only thing that makes me reconsider whether Joey B's in fact a troll: a grown man using "doody" unironically.
   32. Spahn Insane Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4413764)
You COULDN'T care less Bryce. COULDN'T.

Irregardless, it ain't that important.


Well, perhaps not to a bonified pre-Madonna such as yourself!
   33. spike Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4413772)
Gattis is better than both - another RBI double in the first.
   34. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4413779)
This rivalry is going to be even better when Harper is on the Yankees and Trout is on the Red Sox.
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4413784)
So $200 million for 7 years? Maybe.


7-9 years, remembering that a couple of those years are arby years(and maybe even pre-arby) and the players wouldn't be making 20mil a season in those years.

   36. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4413791)
I am stoked by this burgeoning white-hot feud between two players that never play each other and whose teams are located 3,000 miles apart!!!!
   37. Morty Causa Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4413797)
27:

You could say one's grammatical, and one's idiomatic. One relies on a literal reading; one doesn't. Language is not just literal. They are both correct.

How are you on the New York Jewish expressions "I should be so lucky" and "Tell me about it!". Must me interpret them literally?

Or another bogus punctilio: "I can't get no satisfaction"?
   38. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4413815)
I am stoked by this burgeoning white-hot feud between two players that never play each other and whose teams are located 3,000 miles apart!!!!


I am sure it will be even more of a barn-burner than the infamous Rod Carew-Joe Morgan feud of the 1970s.
   39. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4413818)
punctilio


Meinhard vs Salmon.

---

I really, really hope this turns into a Willie/Mickey, Magic/Bird, Derek/Alex/Nomar or Manning/Brady feud. These two are so incredibly talented and baseball needs a supermarketable young superstar to come to the fore (I thought it would be Jason Heyward, but he's not there yet.)

It would also just be plain fun to watch a pair of inner circle Hall of Famers duel through their primes.
   40. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4413851)
I am stoked by this burgeoning white-hot feud between two players that never play each other and whose teams are located 3,000 miles apart!!!!


But outside of New York/Boston and maybe Chicago, these two teams are in large media markets and it's possible that Espn and other media channels might be able to figure out where these cities are on a map and actually mention them more than once a week.

   41. Publius Publicola Posted: April 14, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4413991)
that's exactly the way I see it. I want this to be a rivalry that lasts for ten years.


Not gonna happen though. They may never face one another in an important game their entire careers. And even if they did, the nature of the way baseball is played makes individual rivalries of position players almost meaningless. Bird and Magic faced off in a huge number of big games, with each game being dominated by either one or the other of them. Baseball just isn't like that.

You could make an argument about Fisk/Munson but most of that was just Munson being the horses ass that he was.

Fun to talk about who will have a better carer though. My vote goes to Harper, even though Trout is ahead right now.
   42. Danny Posted: April 14, 2013 at 05:24 PM (#4414009)
Baseball Think Factory: Finding A Way To Fight About Even The Dumbest #### Since 2002!

Since 2001, moran.
   43. Publius Publicola Posted: April 14, 2013 at 05:47 PM (#4414039)
Hmm. Is Eso's real name Moran or did you misspell a derogatory epithet?
   44. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 14, 2013 at 05:52 PM (#4414044)
Hmm. Is Eso's real name Moran or did you misspell a derogatory epithet?
The latter, though it might be an ironic misspelling, as in the famous internet-circulated pic "GET A BRAIN, MORANS!"
   45. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: April 14, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4414045)
Not gonna happen though. They may never face one another in an important game their entire careers. And even if they did, the nature of the way baseball is played makes individual rivalries of position players almost meaningless. Bird and Magic faced off in a huge number of big games, with each game being dominated by either one or the other of them. Baseball just isn't like that.
You could manufacture something like that if they were on divisional rivals, but that's not the case. The only way this could really happen is if these two end up in a couple (more than one) World Series and go hit-for-hit against each other. Not likely.
   46. Greg K Posted: April 14, 2013 at 06:14 PM (#4414059)
That said, it doesn't bother me to think that people are saying the opposite of what they 'actually' mean, since everyone KNOWS what they're trying to say. It's now just one of those idioms that doesn't make any literal sense but communicates a feeling effectively. Like "the proof is in the pudding" which is a complete mangling of the original phrase. But who cares?

Or "axe to grind", the origins of which I think is fun trivia, but doesn't change the fact that 99% of people aren't aware of it's original meaning and 100% of people know exactly what you mean when you say it.
   47. TerpNats Posted: April 14, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4414060)
Well, we had Wagner vs. Cobb in 1909, and Musial vs. Williams in 1946. So you never know.
   48. Greg K Posted: April 14, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4414064)
The latter, though it might be an ironic misspelling, as in the famous internet-circulated pic "GET A BRAIN, MORANS!"

I just assumed he was a Dylan Moran fan*. Or possible Ian Moran. But not Brad Moran. Never Brad.

*Because really, who wouldn't be?
   49. shoewizard Posted: April 14, 2013 at 07:02 PM (#4414087)
Fun with arbitrary begin and end points:

Since August 1 of last year

Harper 69G, .302/.359/.585 .944 OPS 18 HR, 54 R, 40 RBI, 6 SB, 3 CS, 4 GIDP
Trout 69G, .280/.368/.473 .841 OPS 12 HR, 54 R, 29 RBI, 19SB, 2 CS, 7 GIDP

But Harper went o-3 today while Trout went 2-3 with a HR and 3 runs scored, and seems to be heeating up.

That said Harper, who is a year younger, has been the better hitter over the last half season.
   50. cardsfanboy Posted: April 14, 2013 at 07:24 PM (#4414094)
That said Harper, who is a year younger, has been the better hitter over the last half seaso


I'm fairly certain that over their careers Harper is going to be the better hitter... I think that Trout will be probably equal as a player due to probably being a better runner and better defender(not that Harper is a slouch there)
   51. Walt Davis Posted: April 15, 2013 at 12:58 AM (#4414256)
By the way, I've always assumed "I could care less" evolved as an unintentional mix of "I couldn't care less" and "like I could care" ... not out of irony. But someone will point out it dates back to 1531.

Anyway, Shooty, if I can get to the point where "should of" no longer sends me into a murderous rage, I think you can learn to care less about whether people can or can't care less.
   52. shoewizard Posted: April 15, 2013 at 08:39 AM (#4414328)
I think that Trout will be probably equal as a player due to probably being a better runner and better defender(not that Harper is a slouch there)


I think that defense and baserunning gap will shrink and the hitting gap will grow. Harper will end up blowing Trout away over the next 5-6 years.

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