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Tuesday, October 16, 2018

Rosenthal: Manny Machado still has work to do if he wants to keep the focus on his performance – The Athletic

Whenever I see you and ask you how you’re doing, you say, ‘I’m chillin.’ I know that’s your personality, that’s how you are. But there was a ball the other night, and you didn’t run hard. Manny, you know this, at this time of year people notice that kind of thing, so how would you explain it? What happened?

Machado: “Uhhh … (pause) … I’ve been thinking about it and it happens every time, there’s no excuse for it honestly. I’ve never given excuses for not running. I’m not hurt, there’s no excuse but I’ve been the same player … I’ve been doing this for eight years, I’m in The Show for eight years, I’ve done the same thing for eight years, I’ve been the same player. (Machado actually just completed his seventh season.)

“Obviously I’m not going to change, I’m not the type of player that’s going to be ‘Johnny Hustle,’ and run down the line and slide to first base and … you know, whatever can happen. That’s just not my personality, that’s not my cup of tea, that’s not who I am.

“Should I have run on that pitch? Yeah … but I didn’t and I gotta pay the consequences for it. It does look bad. It looks terrible. I look back at the video and I’m like, ‘Woah, what was I doing?’ You know, just the emotions of the game … I’m the type of player that has stayed in the zone, I’m playing and I’m just in the zone.

“On 3-0, I’m trying to drive one out. I hit a 100 mph groundball (actually 76 mph) right into the shift, right to the shortstop … before I even step out of the box, I look to the shortstop, he has the ball in his hands and I’m like, ‘I’m out.’ … I mean, what am I going to do?

“Should I have given it a little more effort? One hundred percent. (It’s) my fault like always, I mean that’s just my mentality when I’m in the game. (There are) things that you learn, things that you gotta change. I’ve tried changing it for eight years and I still can’t figure it out but, one of these days I will.”

Jim Furtado Posted: October 16, 2018 at 02:33 PM | 89 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, manny machado, pay site

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   1. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5767869)
I like his honesty here.
   2. Greg K Posted: October 16, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5767939)
He did kind of pointlessly get a team-mate out by interfering with the fielder last night, which doesn't seem great either.

But I've always had it in for Machado for the crime of being a Baltimore Oriole, so I'm not entirely objective.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5767974)
He did kind of pointlessly get a team-mate out by interfering with the fielder last night, which doesn't seem great either.


I think he was trying to help his teammate. Probably.
   4. escabeche Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5767984)
Comments like this help the uptight Yankees not sign him so I'm all for the honesty.
   5. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5767992)
team-mate
Is this a Canadian thing?
   6. Greg K Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5767996)
I think he was trying to help his teammate. Probably.

Well yeah, I don't suppose you could call it a selfish play. Just stupid.
   7. Greg K Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5767997)
Is this a Canadian thing?

No it's just me. I have a compulsion when it comes to hyphens. I don't even notice them anymore.
   8. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5768003)
I like his honesty here.


awesome interview. love the fact that he emphasized the work he does in the video analysis means more (or he implied it at least) than being "johnny hustle" on every play.
   9. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: October 16, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5768082)
"Team speed for Christ's sake, you get blanking blank blank little fleas on the blanking bases getting picked off, trying to steal, getting thrown out, taking runs away from you, you get them big blankity blanks that can hit the blanking ball out of the ballpark and you can't make any blankity blank mistakes."
   10. Bote Man Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:14 PM (#5768191)
I hit a 100 mph groundball (actually 76 mph) right into the shift … before I even step out of the box, I look to the 2Bman, he has the ball in his hands and I’m like, ‘I’m out.’ … I mean, what am I going to do?

So Manny Machado is the ghost writer of The Bryce Harper Story? Huh.
   11. The Duke Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5768287)
Where is papelbon when you need him?
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:21 PM (#5768298)
first book I got as a kid, I think, was "Charlie Hustle" - which was the Pete Rose biography. the latter word in the title had a different meaning back then: he used to sprint to first base after every base on balls.

not sure who Johnny Hustle is
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5768300)
he used to sprint to first base after every base on balls.
As if he was being chased by an underage girl's father.
   14. phredbird Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5768308)
he used to sprint to first base after every base on balls.

As if he was being chased by an underage girl's father.


or his bookie.
   15. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5768339)
not sure who Johnny Hustle is


Apparently, he's the King of Times Square.
   16. QLE Posted: October 17, 2018 at 05:36 AM (#5768683)
Apparently, he's the King of Times Square.


He isn't the one who brought in all the people in costumes, is he?
   17. Rusty Priske Posted: October 17, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5768722)
It is weird to see a player bragging about playing lazy.

There is never an excuse for not hustling.

After last night I think Machado is the new A-Rod: great player who is cheap, dirty, and bush-league.
   18. . Posted: October 17, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5768762)
D-bag of the highest order. Not quite at Harper level, but not far behind.

Baseball actually seems to be breeding the type in the current era. The other majors, not so much.
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 17, 2018 at 09:52 AM (#5768772)
D-bag of the highest order. Not quite at Harper level, but not far behind.

Baseball actually seems to be breeding the type in the current era.


I don't disagree with the first part. the second, not so much. What other high profile players besides those 2? On the flip side there is Trout, Bryant, Arenado, Lindor, Betts, Altuve. Haven't heard anything negative about Judge. He's just a cut below profile wise, but Anthony Rizzo is one of the nicest and most generous players in a long time.
   20. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 17, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5768774)
Don't feed the troll.
   21. Greg K Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5768777)
On the flip side there is Trout, Bryant, Arenado, Lindor, Betts, Altuve.

I don't know, Altuve is too lazy to play 2B in the playoffs!
   22. Baldrick Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5768784)
It is weird to see a player bragging about playing lazy.

He's not bragging.
   23. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5768785)
After last night I think Machado is the new A-Rod: great player who is cheap, dirty, and bush-league.


Did ARod do anything this obviously malicious? I didn't really think of him as a dirty player. He just seemed to be kind of strangely awkward about things that would lead to bush-league behavior.
   24. JL72 Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5768802)
D-bag of the highest order. Not quite at Harper level, but not far behind.


I don't recall Harper doing anything like the crap that Machado has pulled in this one series alone. He has exceeded Harper by a long shot.

Did ARod do anything this obviously malicious? I didn't really think of him as a dirty player. He just seemed to be kind of strangely awkward about things that would lead to bush-league behavior.


The "Slap" is the worst I can think of.
   25. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5768807)
ARod had the incident where he was running from 2nd to 3rd against the Blue Jays and called for a pop fly to fool the 3B into letting it drop. If any other player did that it would be a great example of hustle, or it would be totally unremarkable (seriously, that's not the sort of thing players watch out for?), but for ARod it further cemented his villainy.
   26. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5768813)
ARod had the incident where he was running from 2nd to 3rd against the Blue Jays and called for a pop fly to fool the 3B into letting it drop. If any other player did that it would be a great example of hustle, or it would be totally unremarkable (seriously, that's not the sort of thing players do?), but for ARod it further cemented his villainy.


The thing about it was that the Jays third baseman reacted in a way I've never seen a player react. Like I would have assumed players did that kind of thing but I literally had never seen a player react by getting out of the way before which made me think it was unusual.

But as 24 did, for the most part A-Rod's stuff was kind of petty. Frankly A-Rod in his prime was about as enjoyable player to watch as there was in the game. He was great at everything, ran everything out and seemed to be enjoying himself. The move to New York was the worst possible thing for his public image. It felt like a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" moment.
   27. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5768815)
Yep, I remember The Slap. To me, that's not a dirty play, because it's so hilariously against the rules. It's ARod being a stupid baby. What Machado did last night - apparent intent to injure, after the play has basically concluded - that's ####### dirty.

If any other player did that it would be a great example of hustle, or it would be totally unremarkable (seriously, that's not the sort of thing players do?), but for ARod it further cemented his villainy.

I really doubt that. It's much easier for me to believe that it's a genuinely bush league play than to believe that ARod was crucified unfairly for it.
   28. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5768828)
If any other player did that it would be a great example of hustle, or it would be totally unremarkable (seriously, that's not the sort of thing players watch out for?), but for ARod it further cemented his villainy.


If any other player did that, we'd have heard about it. The reason it was considered bush league was because players typically don't do it, in the same way they don't typically run across the mound on offense or slap at the pitcher's glove trying to knock the ball out. Not a single one of those was anywhere near as shitty or dangerous as what Machado did last night, but an example that Arod was a supremely talented player with an A.J. Pierzysnki streak. That's a rare combination in the expansion era.

Machado is really quite the ########. Besides this play and the slide, he didn't show a hint of concern when he whacked Pina in the head on his backswing in Game 2.

   29. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: October 17, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5768883)
Manny seems like a good guy in interviews, fan interactions and with teammates, but it's like he loses his mind during game action and does this type of crap. I found his non-hustling comments interesting, almost as if he enters a mental state that he knows is wrong but can't control. I don't know, but there's really no excuse for it, and this kind of #### makes losing him (as an O's fan) easier to bear.
   30. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5768895)
So what else has he done? He smacked a catcher in the head with his bat repeatedly, the threw a temper tantrum when Josh Donaldson tagged him, he threw a bat at a pitcher. And he knows he should hustle but can't compel himself to do it under any circumstances. What an #######.
   31. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5768920)
So what else has he done? He smacked a catcher in the head with his bat repeatedly, the threw a temper tantrum when Josh Donaldson tagged him, he threw a bat at a pitcher. And he knows he should hustle but can't compel himself to do it under any circumstances. What an #######.


He threw his bat at the 3B after the pitcher tried to hit him twice (pitcher was clearly throwing at his legs). Machado has also had at least three bad slides, one that injured Pedroia, and the two Utley Rule slides in this series.
   32. phredbird Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5768921)

i don't really want to defend him — the machado quote above is really mealy mouthed and his actions in this series have been small minded, especially the sliding business.

if i was a true dodger fan, i would not want him back next year. he has a whiff of a-rod basepath stupid, and he's tone deaf about the reactions to his style of play.

but ... when he got on base later last night, he and aguilar had a brief conversation that was obviously a makeup hug-it-out session.

so the pearl clutching about machado kicking aguilar in order to sever his foot is a little overdone. others have pointed out that the play was over and every other 1b in the world would have pulled away from the bag just to avoid such a collision, yet aguilar left it there.

overgrown testosterone-infused twentysomethings engage in this sort of thing on the diamond. coaches, umpires, veterans are there to educate them out of it. maybe manny will avail himself of some of their wisdom, who knows.
   33. McCoy Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5768925)
Just Manny being Manny.
   34. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5768928)

If any other player did that, we'd have heard about it. The reason it was considered bush league was because players typically don't do it, in the same way they don't typically run across the mound on offense or slap at the pitcher's glove trying to knock the ball out. Not a single one of those was anywhere near as shitty or dangerous as what Machado did last night, but an example that Arod was a supremely talented player with an A.J. Pierzysnki streak. That's a rare combination in the expansion era.



A Rod's little slapstick moves may have been bush but they were nothing like Pierzynski. Other than Varitek shoving his glove into ARod's face The Rod didn't engender much physical contact. AJ on the other hand got punched in the face for being a dick in Chicago and punched a trainer in the dick when the trainer had the audacity to ask about AJ's sack after he took a ball to the nuts. People may not *like* A Rod, but AJ was actively disliked.
   35. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5768930)
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5768934)
A Rod's little slapstick moves may have been bush but they were nothing like Pierzynski. Other than Varitek shoving his glove into ARod's face The Rod didn't engender much physical contact. AJ on the other hand got punched in the face for being a dick in Chicago and punched a trainer in the dick when the trainer had the audacity to ask about AJ's sack after he took a ball to the nuts. People may not *like* A Rod, but AJ was actively disliked.


They were both actively disliked. They were usually 1-2 in the player's polls about most hated players.

The trainer thing was bullshit, I'll grant. But, like Arod, A.J. never was violent toward another player (you seriously can't blame him for getting punched by Barrett, who also got into a scrape with a teammate).

Arod also got thrown at for being Arod, in the same way A.J. got thrown at for being A.J.

The point is, most A.J. types (guys who try to get under the opponents' skin, get an edge anywhere and any way they can) usually have A.J.-level talent. Arod is different.

   37. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5768936)
others have pointed out that the play was over and every other 1b in the world would have pulled away from the bag just to avoid such a collision, yet aguilar left it there.


This. First off, his foot is way too high up, and over, the bag. There's no reason for a 1B to have his foot IN the basepath/ON the base like that. 999 out of 1000 defenders stand with the side of their foot touching the bag, not with their heels over it (with spikes out.) And of those 999, all 999 of them pull their foot off the bag after they make the out, thus clearing the path for the runner to run/trot through the bag itself.

Machado didn't HAVE to swipe the ankle like that, but it's hardly a normal play from Aguilar either.
   38. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5768937)
so the pearl clutching about machado kicking aguilar in order to sever his foot is a little overdone. others have pointed out that the play was over and every other 1b in the world would have pulled away from the bag just to avoid such a collision, yet aguilar left it there.


You don't want to defend Machado, but you'll do it anyway. Machado intentionally dragged his foot over the back of Aguilar's leg, and he easily could have avoided it. It was a total dick move.
   39. puck Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5768942)
One thing I noticed that I probably only noticed because of his large body of work in douchiness in this series was the look and gesture he gave the 1st baseline when they asked to appeal on his very checked swing. He's really exuding it this series.
   40. puck Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5768943)
Plus his hair. /getoffmylawn
   41. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5768944)
Machado didn't HAVE to swipe the ankle like that, but it's hardly a normal play from Aguilar either.


Do you think that it was a real accident? Or did Machado think, "hey, this leg is right here in my path, I'll just give it a little kick?"

It doesn't matter if what Aguilar did was or was not unusual. If Aguilar was lying supine on the basepath Machado would be an ####### for stepping on his stomach after a routine out.
   42. McCoy Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5768945)
It was a total dick move.

Sure but it was probably to send a message. Get your foot off the damn bag. Still a dick move but about what I would expect from high alpha jocks interacting with each other on the field of play.
   43. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5768946)
Hey, if this drives down his cost for signing with Atlanta, cool beans man.
   44. McCoy Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5768948)
If Aguilar was lying supine on the basepath Machado would be an ####### for stepping on his stomach after a routine out.

It seems to me that something like this happens all the time in the NBA and hardly anyone bats an eye at it. I guess that might be because the NBA has a foul system and Dennis Rodman has retired.
   45. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5768949)
Do you think that it was a real accident? Or did Machado think, "hey, this leg is right here in my path, I'll just give it a little kick?"


I don't think it's an accident, no. I think he was running through the bag, saw dude camped out there with his foot in the way of the runner, and did a Manny-being-Manny. But he didn't really try to hurt Aguilar by any means, either. If a player wants to HURT a 1B in that situation, he steps on the exposed ankle, which is in the middle of the bag already, with his spikes. I suspect Machado was frustrated with the ground out, and in the moment saw Aguilar stay on the bag, so he childishly swiped through his leg. My point isn't that Machado's play was normal or not childish (but it wasn't really dangerous, either.) My point is that Aguilar isn't without blame in the scenario. Either by mental sloppiness, or dickish intent, he put and left his foot in a *very* weird position at the bag.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5768953)
"You should have seen what she was wearing."
   47. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5768954)
Machado didn't HAVE to swipe the ankle like that, but it's hardly a normal play from Aguilar either.


Maybe no one notices when 1B leave their foot on the bag because other players don't try to kick them as they go by? Machado reminds me of players that get labeled as injury prone and people defend them by isolating each instance and explaining them away. 'This one time he hurt his knee is different because the other time he hurt his wrist, and it was his shoulder prior to that. Each injury is different, so the guy isn't actually injury prone'. To me that player is injury prone - think Bryce Harper. When you have injuries in half the seasons you play, you are injury prone. All that is a long winded way of saying that Machado is a dick. When you do #### like this once or twice a year, every year, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.
   48. donlock Posted: October 17, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5768959)
When Manny is in the news, it helps to use the Sofia Vergara pronunciation for her son on the TV show and call him "Monnny". Why did you do that, Monny?
   49. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5768989)
"You should have seen what she was wearing."


Sure. Because comparing that play to some poor girl locked in a room with the conservative majority of the SCOTUS is totally reasonable.
   50. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5769002)
That image made me shudder.
   51. JL72 Posted: October 17, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5769021)
When you do #### like this once or twice a year, every year, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.


Or even three or four times a playoff series (so far).
   52. Batman Posted: October 17, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5769039)
Earlier in the game, I thought "This game will be remembered for Manny Machado walking away from a third strike because he forgot there's no timeout until the umpire says so."
   53. perros Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5769054)
I'm not Machado's #1 fan, and the Dodgers have no need to re-sign him next year. But as they wouldn't have made the playoffs without him, I'm damned glad the Dodgers traded for him.

Baseball needs a good villain or fwo.
   54. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5769063)
Sure. Because comparing that play to some poor girl locked in a room with the conservative majority of the SCOTUS is totally reasonable.

That image made me shudder.


Is 'SCOTUS' the new 'moist'? Words that women just dont want to hear?
   55. Tin Angel Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5769064)
Jessica Mendoza (yeah, I know) made the point on Olney's podcast today that she thought Manny was just fishing for an interference call if the play was close.
   56. phredbird Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5769075)

You don't want to defend Machado, but you'll do it anyway.


gimme a break. i'm saying the 1b thing was overblown in the campaign to make machado history's greatest monster.

i don't much like him. i've said as much.
   57. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5769092)
Yep, I remember The Slap. To me, that's not a dirty play, because it's so hilariously against the rules. It's ARod being a stupid baby.

I am not a ARod fan, but because of all the hate, I have to defend him. The slap was kind of a heads up play. Yes by replay it was silly as he tried to make it look like he was running. But the on the field ruling was safe. Only when the umps conferred was he ruled out. Jeter had to go back to first, so it was a low cost, high potential play. If he had done that a couple of years before, he might have gotten away with it.
   58. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5769101)
gimme a break.


Sorry, but "he shouldn't have left his foot out there" is an argument Manny's defense counsel makes.
   59. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5769106)
I am not a ARod fan, but because of all the hate, I have to defend him. The slap was kind of a heads up play. Yes by replay it was silly as he tried to make it look like he was running. But the on the field ruling was safe.


Honestly. I'm still not sure that play should have been overturned. "The slap" is an extension of his arm. It's not a travesty that it wasn't, but you're correct to note that the legend of The Slap and How ARod Was Evil is far larger than the reality of that actual play.
   60. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5769107)
I wonder what Headhunter Kelly thinks about Machado's willingness to inflict injury to a fellow player.
   61. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5769110)
Honestly. I'm still not sure that play should have been overturned. "The slap" is an extension of his arm.


I never understood why trying to knock the ball out of the possession of a defender trying to make a tag at first with a targeted chop was against the rules, but trying to do the exact same thing at home plate with a more blitzkrieg assault was OK.
   62. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5769113)
So what else has he done? He smacked a catcher in the head with his bat repeatedly, the threw a temper tantrum when Josh Donaldson tagged him, he threw a bat at a pitcher. And he knows he should hustle but can't compel himself to do it under any circumstances. What an #######.


Totally agree.

That he can find the energy and effort for this kind of crap on the field, but can't find it to run out a grounder while he is "in the zone"....in a playoff game!...I mean, kinda tells you all you need to know about his personality in general. Which is a shame, perhaps with a better head on his shoulders he could be an even more remarkable player.
   63. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5769114)

Honestly. I'm still not sure that play should have been overturned. "The slap" is an extension of his arm. It's not a travesty that it wasn't, but you're correct to note that the legend of The Slap and How ARod Was Evil is far larger than the reality of that actual play

It was a stupid play that was obviously going to be overturned because it was so out in the open. Embarrassing is the right word that describes it.

But A-Rod got slammed for some things justifiably (shouting "I got it" in the vicinity of a popup; his juicing), other times inanely (by special snowflake Dallas Braden for running across the pitcher's mound after the play was over), and for laundry reasons (his less than stellar postseason play in all but a few years). He got slammed for the women he dated, and for pretty much everything he did. But mostly he got slammed because he's filthy rich and because of his laundry.

Me, I loved him when he came through, and didn't love him much when he didn't. I think for most Yankees fans that's the standard issue opinion. All that other #### is mostly neither here nor there, and certainly not determinative in forming my opinion about him.
   64. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5769119)
But A-Rod got slammed for some things justifiably (shouting "I got it" in the vicinity of a popup; his juicing), other times inanely (by special snowflake Dallas Braden for running across the pitcher's mound after the play was over),


That was horrible, the way he yelled at him. That was surely a first in baseball history.

An awful lot of pitchers would bark at a baserunner to stay the #### off the mound in that situation. It never comes up because most baserunners have neither the opportunity nor the desire to do so (Not coincidentally, A.J. did it once).

   65. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5769127)
Manny is such a #####. Hopefully the Cubs don't sign his whiny ass.

He definitely won't be worth the money he gets.

   66. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5769132)
Not a single one of those was anywhere near as shitty or dangerous as what Machado did last night,
This is just silly. Manny did not spike Aguilar. He did not kick Aguilar. There was no chance what he did was going to hurt Aguilar. It was more likely that he'd have hurt himself by causing himself to trip over Aguilar.


And I hope that 29 teams decide that Manny shouldn't be signed.
   67. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5769137)
I never understood why trying to knock the ball out of the possession of a defender trying to make a tag at first with a targeted chop was against the rules, but trying to do the exact same thing at home plate with a more blitzkrieg assault was OK.


The rationale they tend to use is that the act to knock the ball loose has to be part of "running" to or through the bag. If ARod just lowers his shoulder and buries Arroyo in the seats behind the dugout it's probably "legal."
   68. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5769139)
This is just silly. Manny did not spike Aguilar. He did not kick Aguilar. There was no chance what he did was going to hurt Aguilar. It was more likely that he'd have hurt himself by causing himself to trip over Aguilar.

Nonsense. There's a reason Machado didn't trip and was never going to trip: because he knew precisely what he was doing.
   69. dlf Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5769146)
I am not a ARod fan, but because of all the hate, I have to defend him. The slap was kind of a heads up play. Yes by replay it was silly as he tried to make it look like he was running. But the on the field ruling was safe.



Honestly. I'm still not sure that play should have been overturned. "The slap" is an extension of his arm. It's not a travesty that it wasn't, but you're correct to note that the legend of The Slap and How ARod Was Evil is far larger than the reality of that actual play.


And clearly your view isn't at all formed by Robert Fick being called out on exactly the same play one year earlier in the NLDS? :)
   70. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5769151)
The rationale they tend to use is that the act to knock the ball loose has to be part of "running" to or through the bag. If ARod just lowers his shoulder and buries Arroyo in the seats behind the dugout it's probably "legal."


And that's a pretty lousy rationale. Essentially, the motivation (knocking the ball loose) and the means (through hard physical contact) are the same. The rest is filler.

This is just silly. Manny did not spike Aguilar. He did not kick Aguilar. There was no chance what he did was going to hurt Aguilar. It was more likely that he'd have hurt himself by causing himself to trip over Aguilar.


Even with I agreed with you that there was no chance he was going to hurt Aguilar, which I don't, it still doesn't refute what I said. Yelling I got it or the slap, both undertaken by a guy in a pursuit of trying to do something for his team, weren't as shitty as a guy just clipping a player's leg because he was pissed off he grounded out.
   71. PreservedFish Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5769162)
You'd think a libertarian would be outraged at this. Aguilar's autonomy was violated!!
   72. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 17, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5769185)
I am not a ARod fan, but because of all the hate, I have to defend him. The slap was kind of a heads up play. Yes by replay it was silly as he tried to make it look like he was running. But the on the field ruling was safe.


Because the first base umpire was blocked from view by the first baseman and couldn't see the slap.
   73. rconn23 Posted: October 17, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5769222)
"He definitely won't be worth the money he gets."


He's one of the 10-12 best players in baseball. You can make the argument that any player that gets the money that he's going to get isn't actually worth it, but he's got as good a shot of any as coming close to earning his keep.
   74. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5769237)

Even with I agreed with you that there was no chance he was going to hurt Aguilar, which I don't, it still doesn't refute what I said.
You said it was dangerous. I said it wasn't. The latter would indeed refute the former.
   75. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 17, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5769258)
If you want to see a very detailed breakdown last night's play at first base, here it is, complete with multiple angles and comparisons to an earlier play at first wiuth the same two players.

I think Manny didn't like the way Aguilar had covered so much of the width of the bag the first time, so he did his thing the next time to teach him to keep out of the way. I might start watching what other first basemen do to see if it is unusual for a first baseman to play it that way.
   76. JAHV Posted: October 17, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5769289)
Baseball needs a good villain or two.


I will never, ever understand this line of thinking. Baseball (any sport, really) needs two teams playing their hearts out against each other. The team you're rooting for is "good" and the other team is "bad" and that's all baseball needs. We don't need a-holes doing dickish things to make games more enjoyable or intense. If I wanted to watch immature boys throwing a ball around and kicking each other, I'd go watch recess at an elementary school. I don't understand how the game is more enjoyable to watch if someone is an a-hole or if someone else is a pompous, arrogant jerk who likes to rile the other team up.

The game is great in its own right. It doesn't need side plots.
   77. JAHV Posted: October 17, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5769304)
He did not kick Aguilar. There was no chance what he did was going to hurt Aguilar.


I don't agree with either of those things. It might not have been a traditional kick like you'd make at a soccer ball, but he moved his foot forward at a pretty high rate of speed toward Aguilar's leg. That's a kick to me.

And while it didn't have a big chance of doing significant damage to Aguilar, it almost certainly hurt. Machado's a big powerful guy, and he was actually moving somewhat quickly down the line on that play.
   78. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5769328)

Looking at the Fangraphs piece linked by Ghost, the play looks very different to me from different angles.
   79. phredbird Posted: October 17, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5769363)
gimme a break.


Sorry, but "he shouldn't have left his foot out there" is an argument Manny's defense counsel makes.


what is it with you?

did you bother reading my whole post?

i don't much like him, and he's acting like a dick.

but the 1b incident is being overblown. that's it.

quit putting words in my mouth.
   80. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 07:56 PM (#5769454)
And clearly your view isn't at all formed by Robert Fick being called out on exactly the same play one year earlier in the NLDS? :)


Honest truth? I had forgotten Robert Fick ever wore the good and proper laundry. Those were dark days, man.
   81. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 17, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5769458)
But A-Rod got slammed for some things justifiably (shouting "I got it" in the vicinity of a popup; his juicing)

He did no yell "I got it". He yelled "Ha".
   82. perros Posted: October 17, 2018 at 08:04 PM (#5769460)
If I wanted to watch immature boys throwing a ball around and kicking each other, I'd go watch recess at an elementary school. I don't understand how the game is more enjoyable to watch if someone is an a-hole or if someone else is a pompous, arrogant jerk who likes to rile the other team up.


Machado's not so much an ####### but people need to make him into one.
   83. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: October 17, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5769577)
Is this a Canadian thing?

No it's just me. I have a compulsion when it comes to hyphens. I don't even notice them anymore.


Stop-it.
   84. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 17, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5769590)
Looking at the Fangraphs piece linked by Ghost, the play looks very different to me from different angles.


The problem with the Fangraphs piece is that they assert without evidence or argument that Aguilar's foot placement was "normal." It was not. Go watch a real 1B. They never put there foot that far into the bag.
   85. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5769613)
The play looks pretty much the same to me in all the Fangraphs angles. He deliberately ran his foot into Aguilar's foot. It was a cheap shot but the risk of Aguilar being seriously injured on the play was low.

Not excusing Machado but there's more serious contact in the post on pretty much every single play in the NBA (and in general in soccer), but there it's expected.
   86. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5769624)
There is an accompanying The Athletic piece by Marc Carig that contains an amazing quote:

He runs, and it looks like he could run harder, like he’s going 80 percent, but he’s not fast. He’s not a fast boy like CT (Chris Taylor), Puig, Taylor, somebody like that


That's a quote from Yasiel Puig! Not only does he call himself one of the fastest, he does it in third person! It just tickled me to no end.
   87. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5769719)
And apparently he thinks Chris Taylor is two different people.
   88. Rally Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5770101)
He's probably talking about the Chris Taylor he plays alongside in the outfield, and also Chris Taylor the shortstop. They are both fast.
   89. jingoist Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5770264)
In today’s Washington Post, Boswell carries this story to a very probable conclusion, and, in a nutshell it is this: Manny’s history of on-field “episodes” have colored his persona in such a manner as to cost him $Millions in upcoming contract negotiations.
Who really knows the underlying issues that have formed the mans personality in such a manner and degree as to have observers label him a “dick”?
Like A-Rod, he can be a fabulously talented player when he applies himself.
But this lack of good reasoning flaw is making him into a player it will be hard, if not impossible, to root for.
Baseball history is littered with talented players who’s attitudes were such that their career was tinged with rememberences of dislike.
Hopefully, Manny will mature and evolve with self-reflection.
I sure hope he is capable of such an examination.

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