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Wednesday, March 12, 2014

Rosenthal: Manny Ramirez, acknowledging mistakes, chases one last chance

Ramirez, in an exclusive telephone interview from Miami on Wednesday with FOX Sports, admitted that he made mistakes using performance-enhancing drugs. But he said he learned from those mistakes, and wants to share those lessons with younger players.

Yes, this was Manny Ramirez talking, talking in a way that he never has before.

“When you make a mistake in life, no matter what you do, you’re going to pay the price,” Ramirez said. “That’s what happened to all of the players that did it. I’m not going to judge people. Everybody is human. Everybody makes mistakes. ...

“You’re going to feel guilty about what you did. But you did it. You move on. And you learn from it.”

What would he tell young players about PEDs?

“Not just young players,” Ramirez said. “I use myself as an example to my son who is in college, playing baseball: ‘Look what daddy went through because daddy didn’t do things right.’ When you do things right, you don’t have to look back. You always look forward.

“Sometimes, we get caught up in the moment. We start hanging out with the wrong people. But you know, everything in life happens for a reason, so you can appreciate what you are.

“Now I appreciate it more and I’m so hungry to get back, just to get that feeling that I used to have before. I appreciate my family more, my kids, everything that God gave me.”

Thanks to CL.

Repoz Posted: March 12, 2014 at 11:10 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: March 12, 2014 at 11:41 PM (#4670710)
I thought he was chasing one last chance last year with the Rangers AAA team hitting 259/328/370 in a month's worth of games.
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4670713)
As the late, great, Peter Cook once said: "I've learned from my mistakes, and I'm sure I could repeat them exactly"
   3. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:24 AM (#4670716)
What Pat said.
   4. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4670717)
everything that God gave me


Oh, so that's what the PED supplier is called.
   5. Flynn Posted: March 13, 2014 at 07:13 AM (#4670748)
He's spent all his money, hasn't he?
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:01 AM (#4670752)
One of my favorite players ever but I can't imagine him being worth anything at this point. Man did I love watching him hit at Fenway all those years.
   7. Knock on any Iorg Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:15 AM (#4670756)
Maybe he can get a job as the men's room attendant inside the Green Monster.
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:28 AM (#4670760)

I think of mistakes as more singular events.

Robbing banks for 10 years - would that be "a mistake?"

   9. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4670785)
I think of mistakes as more singular events.

Robbing banks for 10 years - would that be "a mistake?"


That's a big pet peeve of mine too. Reading 2 + 2 = ____ and writing down 5 is a mistake.

Knowingly and willingly breaking the law repeatedly over several months or years is a lot of things, but not "a mistake."
   10. Greg K Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4670788)
Robbing banks for 10 years - would that be "a mistake?"

Ask Jeb Stuart!
   11. JE (Jason) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:51 AM (#4670807)
Maybe he can get a job as the men's room attendant inside the Green Monster.

Or at least christen the stall inside the jetBlue Park replica?
   12. villageidiom Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:55 AM (#4670809)
Knowingly and willingly breaking the law repeatedly over several months or years is a lot of things, but not "a mistake."

I'm hazy on the details and too lazy to look it up, but given the force of your message I'll ask you (or anyone else reading this). Which laws did Manny Ramirez knowingly and willingly break repeatedly over several months or years?

1. IIRC Ramirez spent his offseasons in the Dominican Republic. If he was taking drugs there that are OK there but illegal in the USA, he has not broken the law.

2. IIRC he has been caught twice, through MLB drug testing, both times using legal drugs that are banned by MLB (one of which was banned as a masking agent for PEDs).

I don't, by this questioning of your claim, intend to defend Ramirez against charges of PED use. I've no doubt he used, and he basically admits it in TFA. His actions certainly fit the category of unscrupulous behavior. It's just that I don't see the leap to "knowingly and willingly breaking the law repeatedly over several months or years". It's possible he did, sure; but I haven't (yet) seen the evidence for such a strong claim. I'm hoping you can clear this up for me.
   13. SG Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4670811)
I think of mistakes as more singular events.


The mistake could be making the decision to use PEDs, which is singular.

Manny's MLEs over 2012-2013 in the PCL translate to something like 185 PA of .240/.285/.310. I'm guessing his defense would not make up for that.
   14. villageidiom Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4670812)
And is it just me, or is the Fox Sports website trying to do too much? If they're trying to compete with ESPN that's fine, but annoying website design isn't really a competition they should want to win.
   15. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:59 AM (#4670813)
Manny's MLEs over 2012-2013 in the PCL translate to something like 185 PA of .240/.285/.310. I'm guessing his defense would not make up for that.
How's his glove at shortstop?
   16. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4670816)
And is it just me, or is the Fox Sports website trying to do too much? If they're trying to compete with ESPN that's fine, but annoying website design isn't really a competition they should want to win.


Why not? There is a hell of a lot of competition out there.
   17. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:17 AM (#4670825)
Which laws did Manny Ramirez knowingly and willingly break repeatedly over several months or years?

Oh, sorry. I wasn't aiming [9] at Ramirez. I was thinking of the bank robbing scenario in [8] and any sort of blame-shifting language.... especially grating passive voice "mistakes were made" phrase that makes me want to punch the speaker in the throat.
   18. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM (#4670852)
especially grating passive voice "mistakes were made" phrase that makes me want to punch the speaker in the throat.


It was good enough for Reagan hippie!
   19. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM (#4670864)
Manny apologizes if you were offended because you took it wrong.
   20. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4670868)

The more interesting fact in the article is that Manny has a son playing college ball (at University of San Francisco, apparently). Yes, I feel old. According to this link he is not much of a prospect, but it would be fun to see him in the majors one day.
   21. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4670871)
Sounds like Manny's fertility drugs worked.
   22. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:16 AM (#4670881)
According to this link he is not much of a prospect


Pretty similar swing though.
   23. Jeltzandini Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4670892)
My one mistake was deciding as a 22 year old to become the world's most prolific serial killer. That was definitely wrong, and I fully admit that. Still, one mistake! Like you've never made a mistake?
   24. Greg K Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:57 AM (#4670905)
My one mistake was deciding as a 22 year old to become the world's most prolific serial killer. That was definitely wrong, and I fully admit that. Still, one mistake! Like you've never made a mistake?

Reminds me of the Kids in the Hall vaudeville comedian bit.

Guy A: Why would your uncle work a dead-end job that he hates for 40 years?
Guy B: He'll try anything...once.
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM (#4670944)
Anyone else think it's significant that when he's discussing his infractions, he entirely avoids using the pronoun "I"?
   26. alilisd Posted: March 13, 2014 at 01:19 PM (#4670964)
IIRC he has been caught twice, through MLB drug testing, both times using legal drugs that are banned by MLB (one of which was banned as a masking agent for PEDs).


They're only "legal" if they are prescribed by a physician. If you want to believe he only used them in the DR during the offseason, feel free. But HCG would not have been in his system long enough after use for him to test positive had he not been using in the US during the season.
   27. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4670972)
Anyone else think it's significant that when he's discussing his infractions, he entirely avoids using the pronoun "I"?


Are you honestly thinking deep thoughts on Manny Ramirez's pronoun choices?
   28. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 13, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4670978)
Are you honestly thinking deep thoughts on Manny Ramirez's pronoun choices?


I'm not saying it's intentional, nor is it limited to Manny (being Manny). But it reads as a pretty transparent, if unconscious, way of appearing to take accountability while keeping distance.
   29. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4670994)
I'm not saying it's intentional, nor is it limited to Manny (being Manny). But it reads as a pretty transparent, if unconscious, way of appearing to take accountability while keeping distance.

Yeah, keeping distance as well as possibly limiting legal exposure. Not sure that's "significant", it just shows Manny being more thoughtful about his word choices than most people would give him credit for.
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:20 PM (#4671015)
Eh, I'd say it's the opposite - he's not being thoughtful (unless, as you suggest, he's been coached by a lawyer). Rather, he's unconsciously revealing that, despite wanting to give the appearance of accountability because he knows it's advantageous for him, he doesn't really think of them as HIS infractions so much as "everyone's" or "that generic 'you' guy's." He even implies that he called himself "daddy" in a conversation with his college-age son, which strikes me as unusual. I dunno, maybe I'm reading way too much into it, it's just that the near-total lack of "I" was very conspicuous when I read it.
   31. villageidiom Posted: March 13, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4671052)
But HCG would not have been in his system long enough after use for him to test positive had he not been using in the US during the season.
IIRC both positives were from tests conducted during spring training.
   32. jingoist Posted: March 13, 2014 at 06:30 PM (#4671161)
Wouldn't it be great if Manny started speaking in the 3rd person whenever commenting, much as the great Moses Malone did for years.
   33. Walt Davis Posted: March 14, 2014 at 12:16 AM (#4671276)
We start hanging out with the wrong people.

The Red Sox?

Anyone else think it's significant that when he's discussing his infractions, he entirely avoids using the pronoun "I"?

Of course pronouns are usually skipped in Spanish since it's generally obvious from the verb form. I wonder if ESL Spanish speakers frequently skip them?

I've noticed that many Chinese students/researchers, even if their English is generally good, omit "a", "the" etc. a lot. I've always wondered if maybe this doesn't exist in Mandarin.

By the way I've considered taking an intro Chinese class in hopes I might at least be able to pronounce student names without sounding like an idiot -- well, I'd probably still sound like an idiot but maybe not an imbecile. (Those rising/lowering tones would always be beyond me.)
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4671454)
Of course pronouns are usually skipped in Spanish since it's generally obvious from the verb form. I wonder if ESL Spanish speakers frequently skip them?


You're right, of course, but a) it's not like Manny was skipping pronouns entirely (he uses "we" and "you" a lot), and b) in my experience with native Spanish speakers' English, they don't omit pronouns. Rather, they confuse "he" and "she" because the verb form is the same in Spanish. My girlfriend grew up in Mexico - she's 95% fluent in English but makes that mistake, sometimes rather amusingly, all the time, as do most of her Spanish-speaking friends.
   35. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 14, 2014 at 11:10 AM (#4671483)
They're only "legal" if they are prescribed by a physician.


Manny did, in fact, have a physician's prescription for the hCG he was suspended for in 2009. In fact, the suspension was based on documentary evidence of the prescription rather than the positive test.

So in this one case, we actually can say that the player broke an MLB rule, but not a law. Of course, it's also reasonable to assume that he took the hGH because he had previously broken the law by taking illegal steroids that suppressed his natural testosterone production.

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