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Friday, August 05, 2011

Rouse: Dayton Moore Some Shocking Things To Say About Team’s Chances of Getting Better

You will be shocked at what this GM… (Beware of Porn Spam Bots on Facebook!)

In addressing the bloggers during last night’s Royal’s game with Baltimore, Moore said, “We’re not gonna out-talent anybody here. We’ve got one of the smallest markets in all of sports, period. Our owner is a terrific owner, but he’s not going to go out and spend a $100 million payroll when we can only sustain a $55 million or $60 million payroll in this market.”

Moore said there was a lot of criticism about why the Royals would sign a guy like Jeff Francoeur, “but the truth of the matter,” Moore said, “is we’re not going to out-talent anybody here in Kansas City. It’s impossible to do so.”

“Our team has to be better than anybody else,” the Royals GM went on to say. “We have to have synergy. We have to have togetherness, very similar to what the Colorado Rockies had three years ago. They had some young, talented players,” he said. “But they played together, they loved each other, their families got along, and they went out and played hard every single night.”

...What’s most disturbing about all of this is: How could Dayton Moore not have thought that his white-flag-waving-like comments regarding the Royals’ failure to compete wouldn’t be taken in an extremely negative light by the fan base the Royals are so desperately trying to retain and build upon to grow ticket sales and team revenues?

Why this choice of words and why now. Makes you wonder what’s really going on with the Royals off the field and behind closed doors at The K? Whatever it is, it sounds like not everyone in the Royals’ management is on the same page.

Repoz Posted: August 05, 2011 at 09:42 PM | 20 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, media, prospect reports, royals, sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. My Grate Friend Peason's pants are rankled Posted: August 05, 2011 at 11:01 PM (#3893663)
The Process is getting really experimental these days.
   2. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 05, 2011 at 11:12 PM (#3893673)
But what if the rich guys try hard, too?

But they played together, they loved each other

This only works in the steel industry.
   3. The District Attorney Posted: August 05, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#3893688)
The good news is that there's certainly no reason that, given an ultra-productive farm system, a team couldn't expect to win the AL Central with a $60M payroll.

But, for one thing, I continue to cling to the antiquated notion that an organization's goal should be to win the World Series, which is tougher. And it certainly does suck as a fan to essentially be told that, even if the young team does prosper, they're most likely only going to be able to keep it going for a couple of years, until it's time to pay people. And it really doesn't seem like an accurate assumption -- I have no doubt that a successful KC team could support a nine-figure payroll. Of course, David Glass is the guy setting the payroll, not Moore.

I do like that a two-sport star who was on the cover of Sports Illustrated with the headline "The Natural" is now being presented as a grit-meister who lacks talent.
   4. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: August 05, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3893709)
Moore said there was a lot of criticism about why the Royals would sign a guy like Jeff Francoeur, “but the truth of the matter,” Moore said, “is we’re not going to out-talent anybody here in Kansas City. It’s impossible to do so.”

What does signing Francoeur have to do with trying to "out-talent anybody"?
   5. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: August 06, 2011 at 12:01 AM (#3893780)
We have to have synergy. We have to have togetherness, very similar to what the Colorado Rockies had three years ago.


Three years ago, the Rockies went 74-88.

I'm not sure if Moore just got the year wrong, or if he's actually using the '08 Rockies as a model. That would explain quite a bit, actually.
   6. Jim Wisinski Posted: August 06, 2011 at 12:55 AM (#3893861)
But, for one thing, I continue to cling to the antiquated notion that an organization's goal should be to win the World Series, which is tougher. And it certainly does suck as a fan to essentially be told that, even if the young team does prosper, they're most likely only going to be able to keep it going for a couple of years, until it's time to pay people. And it really doesn't seem like an accurate assumption -- I have no doubt that a successful KC team could support a nine-figure payroll. Of course, David Glass is the guy setting the payroll, not Moore


However, to get to the point in fan interest, attendance, and revenue where the market would support a larger payroll would require the team to be well-run and capable of winning lots of games at the major league level. Will Dayton Moore actually be able to accomplish that?
   7. Walt Davis Posted: August 06, 2011 at 12:57 AM (#3893867)
but he’s not going to go out and spend a $100 million payroll when we can only sustain a $55 million or $60 million payroll in this market.

Especially when he can get away with a $38 million payroll.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:25 AM (#3893928)
But what if every team starts signing guys that get along in the clubhouse? Will the Royals be willing to overspend on free agents with high Smiles Above Replacement? Will they retain the players that register the most Playful Pranks Per Nine Innings? Will they pay what it takes to keep the best players in Jokes Independent of Pitching?
   9. Walt Davis Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:19 AM (#3894087)
Jokes Independent of Pitching?

Surely you've noticed the Royals have enough jokes on the mound they don't need them elsewhere. :-)
   10. Zach Posted: August 06, 2011 at 06:15 PM (#3894305)
Maybe they can't out-talent everybody, but they sure can out-talent the 2010 Royals

1B Billy Butler -> Eric Hosmer (rookie)
2B Mike Aviles -> Johny Giovatella (rookie)
SS Yuniesky Betancourt -> Alcides Escobar (second full year)
C Jason Kendall -> Matt Treanor (Salvador Perez on the way)
3B Alberto Callaspo -> Mike Moustakas (rookie)
LF Scott Podsednik -> Alex Gordon
CF Mitch Maier -> Melky Cabrera
RF David Dejesus -> Jeff Francouer
DH Jose Guillen -> Billy Butler

I was going to go through a list of the positions they've upgraded, but it's basically all of them.
   11. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: August 06, 2011 at 06:23 PM (#3894311)
Alex Gordon has a 146 OPS+. He's at 4.4 WAR on B-Ref and 4.8 on Fangraphs. He's taken a really strange/long route to get to this point, but do Royals fans feel comfortable saying he's arrived?
   12. Zach Posted: August 06, 2011 at 06:33 PM (#3894317)
Living so far away, I don't get to see many Royals games. But personally, I always loved his swing and could never figure out why it didn't translate into more production. For me, it's not so much arriving as ending a strange multi year streak of not arriving.
   13. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 07, 2011 at 01:12 AM (#3894495)
#11 - yea, I think he's arrived (is Pedro Alvarez following in his footsteps?). IMO, he would have arrived long ago had they not messed with him so much.

2007 - obviously wasn't ready, but they kept him up the whole year anyway, where he probably developed bad habits/got discouraged
2008 - they left him alone all year, he put up a respectable 109 OPS+, about what you'd expect from a second year player with his pedigree
2009 - got off to a bad start, got hurt
2010 - for whatever reason, they kept him in the minors all year
2011 - finally leave him alone again, he has a great season.

Problem is, he's now figuring it out with what - two years of service time left after this year? I hope they have plans to lock him up.

And I don't know what the metrics say, but he's surprisingly turned into a plus defender in left, at least by the eye test.
   14. AROM Posted: August 07, 2011 at 01:28 AM (#3894497)
"Problem is, he's now figuring it out with what - two years of service time left after this year? I hope they have plans to lock him up."

If they hadn't sent him back to the minors, he'd only have one year left on his sentence, I mean, pre- free agent years.
   15. Something Other Posted: August 07, 2011 at 02:43 AM (#3894515)
...What’s most disturbing about all of this is: How could Dayton Moore not have thought that his white-flag-waving-like comments regarding the Royals’ failure to compete wouldn’t be taken in an extremely negative light by the fan base the Royals are so desperately trying to retain and build upon to grow ticket sales and team revenues?
What's really most disturbing about all of this is: how could any Royals fan older than six have thought that with their current ownership and GM the team has any chance whatever of making the postseason. You might say that with their farm system the Royals have been good and lucky, and it still won't make the slightest difference. Not with a GM who went out and voluntarily added Frenchy to his ballclub. It won't matter that he got lucky with Francouer, either.

David Glass is interested in turning a small profit and owning a ballclub. He has no interest in building a winning ballclub except as that would enhance the preceding. Spending more on payroll would jeopardize the chance of consistently turning a small profit and, given the current system, isn't necessary. So he isn't going to spend what it takes to genuinely try to win.

Why this choice of words and why now. Makes you wonder what’s really going on with the Royals off the field and behind closed doors at The K?
He f*cked up. He told the truth. That happens, sometimes. As much of a schmuck as Moore is at his job, I'm sure he gets frustrated.
   16. The District Attorney Posted: August 07, 2011 at 06:19 PM (#3894712)
Mellinger:
talked with Dayton Moore. Clarified the $55M-$60M quote. Said #Royals can sustain $75M-$80M payroll if winning and drawing well.
(Rany notes that last year's payroll was $74.9M.)
   17. bigglou115 Posted: August 07, 2011 at 06:44 PM (#3894725)
Moore said there was a lot of criticism about why the Royals would sign a guy like Jeff Francoeur, “but the truth of the matter,” Moore said, “is we’re not going to out-talent anybody here in Kansas City. It’s impossible to do so.”

What does signing Francoeur have to do with trying to "out-talent anybody"?


Well, if you sign a lot if guys like Jeff who have lots of talent but still aren't very good then you can outtalent teams and still lose, maybe that's the goal?
   18. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 07, 2011 at 06:53 PM (#3894731)
(is Pedro Alvarez following in his footsteps?)


At this point, I honestly don't think Pedro's going to make it.
   19. Dan Posted: August 07, 2011 at 07:00 PM (#3894735)
And I don't know what the metrics say, but he's surprisingly turned into a plus defender in left, at least by the eye test.


Both DRS and UZR have his range a bit below average (~5 runs so far this year), but both have him worth ~10 runs with his arm. That's incredible.
   20. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 07, 2011 at 07:02 PM (#3894736)


Both DRS and UZR have his range a bit below average (~5 runs so far this year), but both have him worth ~10 runs with his arm. That's incredible.


That sounds about right. He doesn't have great speed, but I have been impressed with the balls he's gotten to, and he even takes correct angles most of the time which impresses me. And the Royals have an absurd number of OF assists this year, with Gordon being the leader I believe. Not sure why that is other than a fluke, the Royals allowing lots of baserunners, and teams testing them a lot, but he has always had a good arm.

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