Are there really voters for whom Thomas was borderline? There are all of 9 guys in MLB history who hit .300+ with 500 HR in their careers. 6 with OBPs also .400+

So have they spoken to Frank about a retirement ceremony, etc? An invitation, perhaps? This sounds like they are just hoping he'll call. No hard feelings, Frank, that the team shat on you when you were hurt, dumped you unceremoniously without even a phone call, and then shat on you again in media for several weeks. As far as I can tell the last public thing KW said was "Good riddance. See you later."Glad to see Williams has no hard feelings about the cruel and malicious behavior of the dastardly Frank Thomas and is willing to let bygones be bygones.

Of course, a statue goes a long way in reparations. If my ex-wife presented me with a life-sized statue of myself in my prime, I might go back too.

If my ex-wife presented me with a life-sized statue of myself in my prime, I might go back too.

Who wants a statue of a fetus?

Who wants a statue of a fetus?

South Carolina

The House Ways and Means Property Tax Subcommittee approved a bill Tuesday to build a monument outside the Statehouse memorializing "unborn children who have given their lives because of legal abortion." The monument would be a 6-foot statue of a fetus on a 2-foot base placed on Statehouse grounds where it can be seen from the road.

I prefer to think that it will be a futuristic version of me. She would no doubt say a statue of me in my casket will depict me at my highest point.

The Steroid Era will boost his HOF vote, but I think just as important is whether Edgar Martinez's candidacy has any traction by then. What Frank has going against him with the voters is their reluctance (as a whole) to elect the first primarily-DH. If Edgar somehow gets in (36-something percent this year? Iffy) Frank gets in no problem. If Edgar bobs up to between 50-65 percent, that probably helps a lot -- nobody who votes for Edgar is going to have a problem voting for another "DH". If Edgar's support slides, that's what I think will give Frank trouble. I say all this without knowing or feeling like checking whether there will be other compelling primarily-DH candidates on the ballot between now and when Frank is eligible. Just making the point that whether it makes sense or not, the biggest thing Frank has working against him is the "DH" tag.

I don't think Thomas depends on Edgar. He's got a far superior case.

156 OPS+ vs. 147. 1400 more PAs. 521 HR vs. 309. 2 MVPs. A sustained 8 year peak with a 182 OPS+, vs. a 7 year peak with a 163 OPS+.

Really, there's no comparison.

I think there's been some rapprochement between Williams and Thomas in the past year or so. I doubt I can find the clippings, but I seem to remember them both making favorable noises that suggest the grudges have subsided somewhat.

I'd love to see Thomas get honored here. He was a great player and never seemed to get his due, either in Chicago or outside, except maybe from fantasy owners. I can't think of a right handed batter quite like him that I've seen in person.

He's one of my favorites.

At this stage of his career, Thomas would be a substantial improvement to the Sox' offense.

As of now, Thomas will be eligible for a Hall election in January 2014, and with the steroids revelations of the past few years, Thomas has gone from a mere possibility to a virtual lock in the eyes of many voters who see him as one of the clean players in a dirty era of baseball.

I've read similar statements many times. I'm curious, is this just something reporters like to say, or have some actual voters come out and stated, "I wasn't planning on voting for Frank, but now I will because I think he didn't use steroids."

#10.
How does anyone know Frank didn't take PED's? I take people at their word, in general. But really no one knows except FT, so the HOF voters are back to speculation on this issue.

depletion,
I agree, of course no one knows if Frank or anyone else who claims not to have taken PEDs (or remains quiet on the subject) is telling the truth. The claim can only be disproved. Nevertheless, the media seem to develop ideas on players, based generally on wish casting or something else I can't see, that become widely believed. Frank and Griffey are clean, Piazza and now apparently Edmonds are dirty. I guess Thomas has been outspoken on the subject, which should be a point in his favor until someone decides that outspokenness means the lady doth protest too much.

How does anyone know Frank didn't take PED's?

Nobody knows, but he was one of the few players who was complaining about PEDs in baseball before MLB started testing. If that was cover for him taking PEDs, then that's a really good cover.

#10.
How does anyone know Frank didn't take PED's? I take people at their word, in general. But really no one knows except FT, so the HOF voters are back to speculation on this issue.

He had been talking about the need for steroid testing for years. Hard to imagine a guy on steroids pushing for more testing even before the McGwire/Sosa home run battle in 1998.

How does anyone know Frank didn't take PED's?

Nobody knows, but he was one of the few players who was complaining about PEDs in baseball before MLB started testing. If that was cover for him taking PEDs, then that's a really good cover.

He was also consistent in his opposition, in that he volunteered to talk to both Congress and those writing the Mitchell Report, and attempted to organize a boycott with his White Sox teammates intended to trigger the mandatory yearly testing for PEDs.

Are there really voters for whom Thomas was borderline? There are all of 9 guys in MLB history who hit .300+ with 500 HR in their careers. 6 with OBPs also .400+

I recall that paragon of Toronto sportsmedia, Bob McGowan, saying that Thomas didn't look like a Hall of Famer because he only got 500 HR because he stuck around so long. No defence, not exactly a .300 hitter.

He was also consistent in his opposition, in that he volunteered to talk to both Congress and those writing the Mitchell Report, and attempted to organize a boycott with his White Sox teammates intended to trigger the mandatory yearly testing for PEDs.

That settles it. He was clearly on some special undetectable roids and wanted to increase his already unfair advantage by making it harder for everyone else to juice.

Are there really voters for whom Thomas was borderline? There are all of 9 guys in MLB history who hit .300+ with 500 HR in their careers. 6 with OBPs also .400+

I recall that paragon of Toronto sportsmedia, Bob McGowan, saying that Thomas didn't look like a Hall of Famer because he only got 500 HR because he stuck around so long. No defence, not exactly a .300 hitter.

Sadly enough, even with that position, Bob McGowan is actually better with baseball than most of the other guys on the FAN. Their only real baseball guy is Mike Wilner, and he's just incredibly annoying (and was the most extreme JP apologist I've ever heard).

No defence, not exactly a .300 hitter.

This is true. He was exactly a .301 hitter.

Yeah, but he hit all those homers off pitchers who were throwing harder because of the steroids they were on.

I find it hard to imagine Big Hurt not making into the Hall. From the old-fashioned media who don't look at things like on-base percentage, I can understand them undervaluing Thomas, but they should be appeased by all the traditional shiny stats: .301 batting average, 521 HR, 1704 RBI (which ranks 22nd all time).

And as for hanging around too long to get the 500th HR, that's only slightly plausible for his very last year, 2008, and while he wasn't very valuable that year it isn't like he had zero value. And in 2006 and 2007, he put up numbers even Murray Chass should like: 39 HR/114 RBI and 26 HR/95 RBI. Of course he should have the stathead vote, too, with a career 156 OPS+ in more than 10,000 PAs. I don't know what more the guy would have to do for enshrinement in Cooperstown.

I don't think Thomas depends on Edgar. He's got a far superior case.

156 OPS+ vs. 147. 1400 more PAs. 521 HR vs. 309. 2 MVPs. A sustained 8 year peak with a 182 OPS+, vs. a 7 year peak with a 163 OPS+.

And, of course, about 400 more career games than Edgar at a real position, which also helps.

I wanted Frank to play center for the White Sox last year. Outside of Buehrle's perfect game, he wouldn't have hurt anything.

And as for hanging around too long to get the 500th HR, that's only slightly plausible for his very last year, 2008, and while he wasn't very valuable that year it isn't like he had zero value.

In 2008, he put up an injury-prone, no defense, bad baserunning line of .240/.349/.374 (OPS+ of 96) out of the DH slot. You're right. He didn't have zero value. He had negative value.

In 2008, he put up an injury-prone, no defense, bad baserunning line of .240/.349/.374 (OPS+ of 96) out of the DH slot. You're right. He didn't have zero value. He had negative value.

In his time with Oakland, he was second on the team in OPS+.

In his time with Oakland, he was second on the team in OPS+.

That's pretty depressing.

I always find it funny how people go 'he cannot have used steroids, he played college football'. I've always viewed that as a warning sign of steroid use, not a 'of course he didn't use'. Yeah, they test. So does the NFL and WWE but I don't buy for a second that they (publicly) catch a majority or even a significant minority of those who are using. I find it hard to imagine a major US college football program not warning their star players that a test is coming and prepping them to avoid getting caught - you don't have to know what they are using, just provide the stats on how long it takes to clear product XYZ from your system. I don't know details of the testing done there but I doubt it is fully random in and out of season testing by a third party.

I agree, of course no one knows if Frank or anyone else who claims not to have taken PEDs (or remains quiet on the subject) is telling the truth. The claim can only be disproved. Nevertheless, the media seem to develop ideas on players, based generally on wish casting or something else I can't see, that become widely believed. Frank and Griffey are clean, Piazza and now apparently Edmonds are dirty.

Remember when the media had A-Rod as part of the clean group? That wasn't really all that long ago, was it?

DB

Nobody knows, but he was one of the few players who was complaining about PEDs in baseball before MLB started testing. If that was cover for him taking PEDs, then that's a really good cover.

The best defense is a good offense. He was playing football at Auburn. QED.