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Wednesday, April 25, 2012

RS: Epstein: Our Rock & Roll Baseball Experts Debate Pitch Counts and Complete Games

Name: Steve Earle

You have to at least consider pitch count in today’s game. Any manager/GM/owner that doesn’t is a redneck and a dinosaur. Pitchers are too valuable, and they are asked to throw more different pitches at higher velocities than ever before. One hundred pitches going into the 9th? Depends on the pitcher, the batters he’ll face in the inning, importance of the game, etc. One thing’s for certain – you better get it right.

Name: Handsome Dick Manitoba

Everything depends on the situation, and all the microscopic aspects involved: Who the pitcher is, how deep in the season we are, and what the relief options are. I think, after watching our very own Joe Girardi on a daily basis, there is too much importance based on stats in general, and not enough importance placed on “instinct” and “the moment”. (Girardi and his ####### “book”!) My thinking: “Who is my pitcher, how durable is he, how much has he thrown this season, were the hundred pitches a laboring hundred, or an in-command, fairly easy hundred?” Based on all of the above, I would probably let him start the ninth. I believe pitchers should be stronger and less babied than they are these days. I hate the automatic “go to the closer” era we have been in for years

Name: Ken Casey
Band: Dropkick Murphys

These guys make millions – let them pitch, for Christ’s sake!!!

Okay. Dropkick Murphy’s (Johnny & Tom) 166 career saves.

Repoz Posted: April 25, 2012 at 12:41 PM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, music, sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Dale Sams Posted: April 25, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4115764)
Pitchers are too valuable, and they are asked to throw more different pitches at higher velocities than ever before.


Really? Cause "Reverse slider" notwithstanding I thought the screwball had gone the way of 'rednecks and dinosaurs'. The knuckler is barely seen anymore also.
   2. Bug Selig Posted: April 25, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4115774)
I thought the screwball had gone the way of 'rednecks and dinosaurs'. The knuckler is barely seen anymore also.


The two easiest pitches on the arm going away can't help.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4115780)
What the hell is up with this anti-redneck bigotry? Shame! Shame!
   4. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 25, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4115791)
The two easiest pitches on the arm going away can't help.

Knuckler + change-up?
   5. bachslunch Posted: April 25, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4115834)
Heh -- Steve Earle seems to know more about handling pitchers than Dusty Baker or Billy Martin. Get that guy a manager's job, pronto...
   6. Bob Evans Posted: April 25, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4115844)
What the hell is up with this anti-redneck bigotry?

Makes me madder than a 14-year-old boy being told his 12-year-old sister is off limits.
   7. Dale Sams Posted: April 25, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4115887)
"You Redneck, illiterate, Nascar-loving stereotyping bigots!" always makes me laugh.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4115901)
What the hell is up with this anti-redneck bigotry? Shame! Shame!

"You Redneck, illiterate, Nascar-loving stereotyping bigots!" always makes me laugh.

There are protected groups, and non-protected groups in the tolerance framework.

Being a white, conservative christian is three strikes against you.

Edit: BTW, I'm reading an excellent book about how conservatives and liberals think differently about morality, and why liberals can't understand conservative thought. The author is an atheist, liberal, but the presentation is very fair; it is based heavily on evolutionary psychology.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Righteous-Mind-Politics-Religion/dp/0307377903
   9. Tippecanoe Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4115920)
I would trust Steve Earle to identify a redneck, for sure.
   10. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4115921)
Jonathan Haidt, the author of "The Righteous Mind," is an extremely well-respected psychologist, with all the academic awards and research chops you could hope for. His occasional forays into ethics are much less well-thought-of. He spoke to my department a few years ago.
   11. Randy Jones Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4115927)
it is based heavily on evolutionary psychology.


evolutionary psychology is almost totally bullshit.
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4115947)

There are protected groups, and non-protected groups in the tolerance framework.

Being a white, conservative christian is three strikes against you.


You obviously have had it very tough in life. And you're straight, which is strike four or something like that.
   13. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 25, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4115961)
The white man is the Jew of liberal fascism.
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4115977)
Truly, being a white, conservative Christian is tough these days in America. Just imagine what it would be like if white people, conservative people, and Christian people weren't the overwhelming majority in demographic terms, and even more of a majority of people in positions of power.
   15. bachslunch Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4115989)
Here's an excerpt from the article's author that precedes the rock and roller comments:

"Back when men were men and legends like Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver and Catfish Hunter stalked the mound, nobody gave a rat's ass about how many pitches they threw per game."

Oh well -- three out of four ain't bad. Which isn't quite Meat Loaf, but anyway...
   16. Lassus Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4115992)
Oh my god.
   17. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4115999)
"Back when men were men and legends like Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver and Catfish Hunter stalked the mound, nobody gave a rat's ass about how many pitches they threw per game."

Oh well -- three out of four ain't bad. Which isn't quite Meat Loaf, but anyway...


I think he's talking specifically about their complete game totals as compared to today's starters. Hunter had 30 CG in 1975, which makes him the last pitcher to complete that many in a season.
   18. zenbitz Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4116006)
American white conservative christians complaining about bigotry is like redneck 14 year old boys complaining about getting raped by their 12-year old sister.
   19. JoeC Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4116029)
I thought this was a very cool article, loved the passionate opinions from some serious baseball fans, and wanted to come over here to talk about it. And then I read the thread.
   20. Dale Sams Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4116090)
American white conservative christians complaining about bigotry is like redneck 14 year old boys complaining about getting raped by their 12-year old sister


Remember that TV Movie of the Week where the guy was raped by a woman and no one would take him seriously, and his wife left him?

No? Oh well, nevermind.
   21. God Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4116109)
Post 19 could have been made on any thread here, really.
   22. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4116116)
Remember that TV Movie of the Week where the guy was raped by a woman and no one would take him seriously, and his wife left him?


Paul Sorvino, wasn't it?
   23. God Posted: April 25, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4116118)
Ben Gibbard's answer was delightfully nerdy.
   24. Dale Sams Posted: April 25, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4116209)
Paul Sorvino, wasn't it?


Ahh here it is.
   25. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: April 25, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4116243)
Fun article to read (saying something for Rolling Stone I guess) - I love seeing famous people get excited about baseball
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4116346)

You obviously have had it very tough in life. And you're straight, which is strike four or something like that.


American white conservative christians complaining about bigotry is like redneck 14 year old boys complaining about getting raped by their 12-year old sister.

Of course I never said anything like that.

I said in the progressive tolerance framework, white conservative christians are not considered worthy of tolerance. You can make fun of rednecks or evangelicals or Catholics and never be called out by progressives.

If you make fun of Muslims for truly retrograde views you'll be called a bigot, but never for criticizing conservative Christians.

Thank God the majority of the US, especially outside the coasts, doesn't subscribe to the progressive worldview, so conservative Christians aren't actually persecuted. But they are certainly denied respect for their views in progressive circles.
   27. Paul Antonissen Posted: April 26, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4116560)
I said in the progressive tolerance framework, white conservative christians are not considered worthy of tolerance. You can make fun of rednecks or evangelicals or Catholics and never be called out by progressives.


As has been pointed out, there's a lot of context you're ignoring.

If you make fun of Muslims for truly retrograde views you'll be called a bigot, but never for criticizing conservative Christians.


I don't know of any progressives that do this. Knee-jerk anti-Muslim viewpoints are not the same as pointing out that some (many?) Muslims have "retrograde views" (and the ones holding the "retrograde views" are the conservative Muslims). Find me a progressive the defends these "retrograde views".

The problem here isn't Christianity or Islam. It's the conservative part of both that's mostly abhorrent in both religions.
   28. eddieot Posted: April 26, 2012 at 08:54 AM (#4116659)
I thought this was a very cool article, loved the passionate opinions from some serious baseball fans, and wanted to come over here to talk about it. And then I read the thread.

Amen. Wish we could start this one over. Indy rock nerds talking about baseball. I expected more... or less, maybe.

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