Eugene Field to Safeco Field…Winking, blinking, and nodding off.
Last year, Ichiro’s WAR was -0.4.
That is a time-to-retire number. Many players of Ichiro’s historical profile have either shuffled away voluntarily or been shown the door after producing a WAR higher than -0.4, and approximately at the same age as Ichiro (38).
Ichiro’s WAR numbers, especially if you have marveled over him for the past decade, paint an inevitable decline that no shift in his place in the batting order is likely to stem. According to WAR, Ichiro hasn’t been an All-Star since 2009 (although he made the 2010 All-Star team), and actually peaked as a player in 2004, when he produced an 8.1 WAR at 30.
...If Ichiro doesn’t tie himself in knots trying for 200 hits, maybe he can make a more positive contribution than in 2011. But it doesn’t appear any upward bounce will be very high, problematic for the Mariners who owe him another $18 million in what will be the final year of his contract.
Ichiro has often said he would like to play at least until 40, perhaps a little longer. Here’s what I’d like to see Ichiro do: Play out his contract with the Mariners, return to Japan, and finish his career where it started, with dignity and a nearly unblemished major league career intact. As his WAR trend suggests, anything less won’t be pretty.
Repoz
Posted: February 13, 2012 at 09:50 PM |
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1. Monty Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4060330)Are there "many" players of Ichiro's historical profile? The closest one the article provides is Lloyd Waner, who isn't all that similar either by BBRef Similarity Score (875) or by career shape (since most of his best seasons were before the age of 27, which aren't seasons that count for Ichiro in the Similarity Scores).
Thankfully, Ichiro! doesn't give dick-n'-balls about what you'd like or think. And if he goes back to Japan and hits .323/.360/.427, will we have to deal with rumors of him coming back?
Because essentially you are asking a guy to go back to AAA "where it all started." Dignity would be to retire as a major leaguer -- not back in Japan as a retirement tour.
#######.
Also, BB-ref has way too high OPS+ numbers right now for some reason. Check out Ralph Garr.
Ooof.
I was going to point out the same thing when I saw that Willie McCovey had a 243 OPS+ for his age 37 season, well below his career average of 279.
It's not *that* hard to find multiple All-Star level players who had a replacement-level season at an advanced age and came back to have at least a couple more decent years.
Stan Musial, 1959 (at age 38)
Reggie Jackson, 1984 (age 38)
Barry Larkin, 2002 (age 38)
Fred McGriff, 2000 (age 36)
Craig Biggio, 2002 (age 36)
It's true, though, there are only one or two 3+ WAR seasons in the remainder of those careers.
But anyway Pete put up several "comeback" seasons.
Frankly, when I first saw the headline, I thought it said "Twinking Out." That certainly brought an image to mind...
Really? The racist police strike me as the same people that spend their days at the beach with a metal detector looking for buried treasure.
That's some sportswriting there.
Yeah, Ichiro had a crappy year by Ichiro standards, but he still had the third-best OPS+ among regulars on his team. I think I'll wait until the rest of the club starts playing a little better before I complain about the right fielder.
Now, it is certainly possible that Ichiro is toast. And he is almost certainly not going to be worth what he is paid. But just citing WAR here, without noting the defensive caveat, is incredibly misleading. Either it comes from somebody with an axe to grind, or from somebody who doesn't understand statistical analysis. Either way, not worth paying attention to.
Spot on. Everyone here is happy to delve into stats which will paint a picture of a player's true value, however as a baseball fan, this dude is just fun to watch. Sure his chase for 200 hits isn't a quest for absolute value, but it's entertaining.
Maybe this is the year he turns into that 30 homer guy we know he can be!
Why not?
Uh - maybe they should play on grass this season.
OK, I'll say that the three Hecks were Frankie, Sue, and Axl, with a balderdash from Mike. Was I close?
Because his arm fell off.
Why not?"
Because you cannot ignore The Great Cornejo! Do you threaten him? Bring him TP for his bunghole!
Is anybody else bugged by this theme? (A version of it showed up the other day in the Figgins-to-leadoff article.) 200 hits in and of itself may not have any magical value, but getting base hits (specifically singles) is how the guy succeeds in baseball. It's also what he's historically great at. It's like telling Monet to stop tying himself into knots trying to paint those water lilies.
Also check B-R http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml - Rose now has two years over 300 for OPS+, never below 155 - maybe he should mount a comeback :)
Steroids.
Sure, but again, that's the man's talent. Every kind of success is a tradeoff. It's very likely that Ichiro would have had less success if he'd tried to remake himself in the direction of, say, Brian Giles (a more successful hitter overall. In fact, Jeebus, I just looked him up and Giles had a career OPS+ of 222, who knew.)
I just dislike criticism of the type "stop doing what works for you." You see this of a lot of players who had extreme forms of success; you even used to hear it about Barry Bonds ("what if he just swung at some of those close pitches, he'd drive in a lot more runs"). But maybe you can't have everything, and have to go with your own strengths.
Is that even possible?
career 315!
Something is broken with BB-Ref's calculations for older players' OPS+. I checked some active players and their numbers look correct.
How about a nice game of Global Thermonuclear WAR?
Depends on where league average is. 400 OPS+ requires that you record marks of 2.5x league average for both OBP and SLG, or a similar combination. If league OBP were .320 and league SLG .400, you could get there with OBP .800 and SLG 1.000. If league average is sufficiently high, there's not enough "headroom" on the scale for 400 OPS+ to be possible, but given that SLG can theoretically range up to 4.000, you'd need league average SLG to exceed 1.000.
But even Ruth surely didn't really hit 399 OPS+.
The only possible explanation is that Sean Forman is on steroids.
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