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Or, the Jays will get him on a cheap 2 year deal!
(1) Time on the DL doesn't count towards serving a suspension, but
(2) He's not actually on the DL yet.
So could the Yankees just not put him on the DL until after the number of games that he's suspended for have passed?
As for Cano, it's been virtually expected for a long time now.
To me, Granderson will be a surprise and pretty sad. Not that taking PED's necessarily makes you any worse a person than those that don't, but I would bet that he is above this. Hopefully this part is wrong.
Actually, neither of these are true. Time on the DL does count towards serving a suspension and he's already on the 60 day DL.
any particular reason?
Also, if true, boy did the Jays pick the right year to go for it - Yankees could be missing 3 big pieces for almost a third of the season, two unexpectedly.
This sounds like double-talk to me. Either you think PEDs are OK and so Granderson doing them doesn't change your mind about him any or you DON'T think they're OK and so his image is now damaged in your eyes. You can't say that they don't matter to you but you would hope he was above doing them.
He's now being compared to Pedroia :)
Edinson Volquez, Padres SP, was suspended in 2010 for 50 games but was on the DL anyway. He did lose 50 games of pay, which A-Rod would notice more.
Volquez and Yasmani Grandal, now also suspended, were in the same Reds-Padres deal. hmm
Freddie Galvis served his suspension for the Phillies on the DL last year.
Yes, but that's Edinson and Freddie, who don't matter. Can you imagine the high-pitched wailing if Arod is allowed to serve a roids suspension while on the DL. The columns demanding MLB get rid of the Rodriguez Loophole will be too numerous to count, and will really put a strain on poor Repoz.
Not that they're wrong, but even they seem surprised they're breaking news.
You are NEVER going to be able to stop the use of PEDs....I mean, maybe, life in prison. But I doubt it.
I agree. I don't understand how someone receiving a penalty somehow means that the penalty is not enough.
Because the children! Think of them!
This whole thing is stupid. I wish I could just fast-forward to the part of history where people stop worrying about PEDs again.
Too late. I forgot about mine, & ESPN auto-drafted Braun for me, 2nd overall. Which seems a bit high to me, but what do I know?
Third straight season I'll have had him.
I'd need to know how often this guy's sources were wrong- if they were wrong 25 times and right just once...
I suspect these guys will use PEDs even more once they are in prison.....
And what pct of NFL players?
Executions greatly reduce the number of repeat offenders.
His head keeps getting bigger! Clear evidence of steroids!
If it's true.
NFL players always talk about giving 110%. I bet that's in the ballpark for PED use.
That is, of course, assuming that this isn't all just rumormongering bullshit.
Hypnotist: You will beat Shelbyville.
Team: We will beat Shelbyville.
Hypnotist: You will give 110%.
Team: That's impossible. No one can give more than 100%. By definition, that is the most anyone can give.
Now, if it's like the Melky thing, I guess we find out in a month. For now, I'm very skeptical (not that they couldn't possibly be using, but of the sourcing).
So I guess we've got four weeks to go to test the validity of this rumor!
I hope it's false, really.
Well, you can't literally stop all use, but you can, as quote #2 shows, certainly take out a huge chunk of it, at least temporarily.
Thats a good thing.
Well, we can't have that happen.
Still, with appeals and the like odds are the tests are known a month or so before they are announced which gives a big opening for people to leak info to the press. Did anyone else leak Cabrera's test last year before it was announced?
I don't think MLB cares at all. Bud Selig issued a public statement about Ryan Braun's supposedly confidential appeal.
Yep.
It something is proven, than it is no longer smoke or steam (i.e. a rumor), it is actual fire.
Melido Perez, Oscar Azocar, and Alvaro Espinoza may or may not fit your definition of scrappy, but they sure were underdogs. Definitely hard to look back with any affection for some of those guys though, like drunk driving killer Jim Leyritz and sex offenders Mel Hall and Luis Polonia. Certainly nobody had any illusions about that group contending for anything.
Excerpt: Well worth reading in full.
He sounds like a guy telling the truth, but he doesn't appear to have done any follow-up work. All he has to go on is his source.
Gotta say, if he's just a nutjob spuriously inventing BS he's doing a sociopathically great job of building confidence in his audience.
If this report is true, I would expect these players to challenge their test results. Just to provide an example of how these things might play out in terms of timing if a player challenges a positive test result -- i.e., how long before the player is informed of a positive test and he is suspended if he challenges and loses -- Rafael Palmeiro was notified that he had tested positive on May 19, 2005. It was not until August 1, 2005 that he was suspended and the positive test result was publicly disclosed.
The timeline in Palmeiro's case:
March 17, 2005: Palmeiro testifies before Congress; says he has never used steroids.
May 4, 2005: Palmeiro takes a random drug test.
May 19, 2005: The MLBPA informs Palmeiro that he has tested positive for steroids.
<The grievance/arbitration process takes place>
August 1, 2005: Palmeiro's grievance is denied and Selig announces his suspension.
So, everything took about 10 weeks in that case.
It's difficult to figure out where these leaks are without conducting an investigation. The parties involved in Palmeiro's case included:
MLB
MLBPA
HPAC
Selig
Doctor witnesses
Various staff of these parties
Braun was tested in September (I think) and the appeal was finalized in February.
Well, let's examine. They didn't move to re-sign either Swisher or Martin, and so they currently are short a corner OF and a C. What else?
As Yeaaarrgghhh (hey, way to have a nearly un-citable username, bro) points out, that sort of delay between "positive" and final results really does fit in with the idea that the Yankees punted this offseason precisely because they realized they were going to be in a terrible position.
Question: IF THIS IS ALL TRUE, what does one make of the recent report that the Yanks made a "substantial" offer to Cano last month? Does that story tend to make this rumor less likely to be true?
Yes, rumormongering is of questionable taste, but man this is fun to talk about.
If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.
EDIT: OTOH, I imagine that by now lots of folks are aware of its existence.
I don't think so. Whether steroid should be banned or not is one issue and whether a player breaks the agreed upon rules is another. The players are culpable for ruining the Yankees' season (if this rumor is true) not MLB.
On the bright side, the Yanks would save a crap-ton of cash if this rumor is true, no? Hot dogs are free this year at NYS!
Why, are they going to cancel the World series?
I'm generally a PED apologist, but this can easily be spun back the other way. If the Yankees were at the top of the success cycle because three of their star players were using banned performance-enhancing substances, then they had no business being at the "top of the success cycle" to begin with.
It would suck for Yankee fans to have to suffer through a punted season, but they have enjoyed (potentially) illicit success in the years prior to this coming season. The rules permit the Yankees to outspend everyone in baseball, the rules explicitly prohibit the Yankees from running out a lineup that is 33% filled out by PED users.
... This is probably antithetical to MLB's line of thinking. This story plays as "exactly the sort of incentive necessary to get clubs to crack down on use." If anything, I think that something like this goes to show how "serious" MLB is about correcting its PED problem. It'll lead to stories about how a 95 win team was built on juicers, but it'll also "prove" that MLB's testing is working and being conducted in good faith.
The only trouble is the continued PED black eye, but given the pervasiveness of the story through every major sport except the NBA (for some weird reason), I think the league's doggedness mitigates that.
This is a victory for the collective bargaining process and league-wide order, if anything.
Hedging their bets. The appeals might be successful, and they need at least a few supporting guys to field a decent team. And if the appeals aren't successful, Youkilis and Kuroda might keep them around .500 and the fans from revolting. Plus, it isn't that much money to the Yankees.
I could see MLB suspending them for exactly this reason. "See, we're willing to suspend some of our biggest stars!"
Have to say, the idea he would continue to shamelessly use after being caught once already (and escaping on a technicality) is breathtakingly arrogant.
One does wonder what Cashman will do though. If he knows that he is likely to lose 2 top players for 50 games each on top of the time he knew A-Rod would be gone for then how to handle it? Do you trade for quality guys to fill in, do you 'ride it out' and try to find out if any kids in AAA are ready, do you sign a few vets and see if lightning in a bottle can be found? Probably a mix, sign a few vets, hope a kid or two works out, and try to make a trade but don't mortgage the future on it. 2013 was going to be hard for the Yankees anyways so this just makes it more interesting.
So AL East - Jays have to be the heavy favorites now, Rays up there too, then Yankees while the Orioles & Red Sox hope for some luck in 2013 (to the level the O's had it last year).
Right now I'm thinking more how this would affect the teams in a hypothetical way. This story needs a confirmation before I'll start LOLing at the players. They should be warned that I am sharpening my snark, though...
What is there to talk about? We don't know anything. But I guess that doesn't stop you from talking about it anyway. I guess this is what you wanted to talk about:
I suppose you're an expert in this area, so I'll defer to your wisdom.
Didn't Braun test positive in September? He may have failed another test, after the first positive test but before all the controversy surrounding it exploded.
Esoteric's entire m.o. on this issue has been to look down upon acused players with scorn - after concluding that they're guilty because the accusation alone suffices as evidence for him. Most people save their scorn for criminals, rapists, child molestors, murderers... those sorts of people. Not Esoteric. A heavy dose of his scorn is proudly set aside for baseball players accused of using steroids. He must be such a better person than them.
I do understand I'm edging out onto a limb here because all of these questions are predicated on rather risky assumption that this story is correct. So if you want to smack me for that, I'll take the hits deservedly.
I like to proudly set aside a healthy dose of my scorn for people who post on the internet.
It's a twitter and anonymous sourced world right now and this guy has had the goods before, however obtained. I think it's worth watching and talking about. And for anyone that doesn't want BTF to print rumors -- come on! BTF is rarely a primary source (with the expectations that go with that) and BTF readers should have the capability to parse this out among themselves rather than on disparate places around the Internet.
In my corner of the Internet (michigan, white sox and bulls message boards) this is big news. I'd assume it's big news in most people's corners of the 'net.
If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.
That's silly. As a Yankee fan, if the three guys cheated, they deserve the suspension, and the Yankees deserve a shitty year.
1.) I reserve something far greater than mere "scorn" for rapists, child molestors, and murderers. I sure hope you do too. "Scorn" is a rather gentle form of disapproval, all things considered.
2.) The idea that my scorn for PED users somehow crowds out my ability to feel outrage about more important things is just silly; it's an entry-level internet arguing tactic.
3.) The question of whether I'm a "better person" than PED users is strangely orthogonal to this entire debate. I don't recall ever having even thought about the issue in those terms. Interestingly enough, what I DO know is that I have gone out of my way in past Primer PED discussions to state that I don't think I'm 'better' or morally superior to people who sit on the other side of this debate (like you, or a majority of Primates for that matter). How ironic for you to write this, given the pains I've shown in the past to stipulate my respect for people who disagree with me.
And what about their pants?
That's A Smitty* of a different color (or, at least one of a different fashion sense).
If the Rockies can substitute balls that travel farther when their team is batting, I assume we're jiggy with that, along with sign stealing?
I'm assuming that someone here with a similar handle to mine has publicly expressed a distate for trousers in all their varieties, because these references often get directed at me.
Oddly enough, I'm also no fan of leg-sleeves, but I've always kept my feelings private. Consequently, all these references make me feel like BBTF users are throughly inside my innermost thoughts.
And what about people on the internet who are pants?
Not necessarily; SportsGrid might have a staff of pre-cogs.
A "true" technicality. Uh-huh.
What do you think the point of "technicalities" are? "Technicalities" are rules designed to protect the accused from abuses and errors and bring integrity, propriety, and fairness to the process.
Braun's case was of course not a criminal matter, but the same concepts apply. If you are ever accused of a crime, can we throw the laws away and just wing it in order to prosecute you? You don't care whether you get 4th Amendment protections, for example? The police can conduct illegal searches on you without repercussion? We can just use the evidence? It's hard to believe a noted right-winger such as yourself would thumb your nose at due process and sneer at people for making the proper arguments in their defense, but you do it in Braun's case, which is curious to me.
I'm not Esoteric, and I don't subscribe to his steroid views. But I want it to be true. It would be fun! It's too bad Braun's name is in there as well, since I like him, but having three Yankees get suspended sounds like a blast. What's not to love?
And what about their pants?"
Are you assuming that those posting on the internet are wearing pants?
"parade or perp walk"
D'oh. Sorry!
On the issue of steroids, Ryan Braun has more honor than you ever will.
This. The reply might be "But 'roids cause health problems". However, if that's the case, why doesn't MLB simply say as much? It'd make them look less hypocritical.
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