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Tuesday, March 05, 2013

Rumor: Cano, A-Rod, Braun To Be Suspended for Failed PED Test

  Anonymous Source: Cano, Granderson, A-Rod and Braun will all be suspended for failing PED test this season.

  — Joe Bisceglie (@joebisceglie) March 4, 2013

You’d be inclined to be skeptical, and for fair reason — Bisceglie doesn’t name his source. This kind of story is explosive, and deserves tender care before people start going on witch hunts and throwing names out there with no rationale. But consider this: Bisceglie correctly prognosticated that Melky Cabrera would be suspended last season for a failed PED test almost a month before his suspension came.

  My sources tell me that Melky Cabrera will be suspended soon for violation of MLB’s PED policy

  — Joe Bisceglie (@joebisceglie) July 18, 2012

madvillain Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:31 AM | 414 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: steroids

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   1. RollingWave Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:11 AM (#4380851)
well the Yankees can just call off their whole season if that happens......

   2. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: March 05, 2013 at 07:02 AM (#4380855)
If true, this will help the Yanks in terms of their negotiations with Cano!
   3. mathesond Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:14 AM (#4380867)
If true, this will help the Yanks in terms of their negotiations with Cano!


Or, the Jays will get him on a cheap 2 year deal!
   4. John Northey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:32 AM (#4380880)
C'mon Yankees - lets see you set a record for most suspended players in a season. Ichiro could be suspended if he wanted to be. Jeter tried but came up just short. Rivera was just doing it to get better so he could help the team. And so on.
   5. Rants Mulliniks Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:41 AM (#4380883)
This is pretty crazy, and I think MLB must really be panicking as to the where to go from here. As a fan, I think its pretty sad that we might have 4 superstars under suspension at the same time. I don't think giving up on testing would ever be considered, so what do you have to do? Suspend a guy for 162 games the first offense, and void his contract? I certainly don't have a clue.
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:53 AM (#4380887)
I'll believe this when it's from an official source.
   7. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:56 AM (#4380889)
If this were true, how do the logistics of this work with respect to ARod's recovery from surgery? I mean, I don't know, but I imagine that the following two things are possible:

(1) Time on the DL doesn't count towards serving a suspension, but

(2) He's not actually on the DL yet.

So could the Yankees just not put him on the DL until after the number of games that he's suspended for have passed?
   8. dejarouehg Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:56 AM (#4380890)
Not a big fan of printing rumors like this but there would certainly be some justice in seeing Braun and Arod suspended.

As for Cano, it's been virtually expected for a long time now.

To me, Granderson will be a surprise and pretty sad. Not that taking PED's necessarily makes you any worse a person than those that don't, but I would bet that he is above this. Hopefully this part is wrong.
   9. SG Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:19 AM (#4380900)
If this were true, how do the logistics of this work with respect to ARod's recovery from surgery? I mean, I don't know, but I imagine that the following two things are possible:

(1) Time on the DL doesn't count towards serving a suspension, but

(2) He's not actually on the DL yet.


Actually, neither of these are true. Time on the DL does count towards serving a suspension and he's already on the 60 day DL.
   10. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:26 AM (#4380903)

As for Cano, it's been virtually expected for a long time now.


any particular reason?
   11. John Northey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4380906)
If this ends up being true I could easily see a big push for a full year suspension on a first offense - the push is already there but this would just jump that pressure.

Also, if true, boy did the Jays pick the right year to go for it - Yankees could be missing 3 big pieces for almost a third of the season, two unexpectedly.
   12. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4380908)
It's just a ploy to drive Braun and Cano's value down during this week's fantasy drafts.
   13. Publius Publicola Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:47 AM (#4380913)
Not that taking PED's necessarily makes you any worse a person than those that don't, but I would bet that he is above this. Hopefully this part is wrong.


This sounds like double-talk to me. Either you think PEDs are OK and so Granderson doing them doesn't change your mind about him any or you DON'T think they're OK and so his image is now damaged in your eyes. You can't say that they don't matter to you but you would hope he was above doing them.

any particular reason?


He's now being compared to Pedroia :)
   14. Publius Publicola Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4380919)
Odd that this coincides with the Yankees front office being singularly quiescent this past off-season. I wonder if they knew this was going to go down and decided to just give up on this year and keep their powder dry for the next.
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:53 AM (#4380922)

Edinson Volquez, Padres SP, was suspended in 2010 for 50 games but was on the DL anyway. He did lose 50 games of pay, which A-Rod would notice more.

Volquez and Yasmani Grandal, now also suspended, were in the same Reds-Padres deal. hmm

   16. zonk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:55 AM (#4380929)
Why doesn't someone just check for backne?
   17. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:09 AM (#4380939)
Freddie Galvis served his suspension for the Phillies on the DL last year.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4380951)
Whoa
   19. SoSH U at work Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4380953)
Edinson Volquez, Padres SP, was suspended in 2010 for 50 games but was on the DL anyway. He did lose 50 games of pay, which A-Rod would notice more.


Freddie Galvis served his suspension for the Phillies on the DL last year.

Yes, but that's Edinson and Freddie, who don't matter. Can you imagine the high-pitched wailing if Arod is allowed to serve a roids suspension while on the DL. The columns demanding MLB get rid of the Rodriguez Loophole will be too numerous to count, and will really put a strain on poor Repoz.

   20. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4380958)
The source of this story is, um, nontraditional.

Not that they're wrong, but even they seem surprised they're breaking news.
   21. Dale Sams Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4380966)
Why would there need to be panic or an increase of penalties? What pct. of MLB (and milb) players got caught in the last 12 months? MLB can't help that the general public are a bunch of screaming ninnies, inflammed by the national media.

You are NEVER going to be able to stop the use of PEDs....I mean, maybe, life in prison. But I doubt it.
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4380973)
Why would there need to be panic or an increase of penalties? What pct. of MLB (and milb) players got caught in the last 12 months?


I agree. I don't understand how someone receiving a penalty somehow means that the penalty is not enough.
   23. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4380977)
Why would there need to be panic or an increase of penalties?


Because the children! Think of them!

This whole thing is stupid. I wish I could just fast-forward to the part of history where people stop worrying about PEDs again.
   24. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4380979)
It's just a ploy to drive Braun and Cano's value down during this week's fantasy drafts.


Too late. I forgot about mine, & ESPN auto-drafted Braun for me, 2nd overall. Which seems a bit high to me, but what do I know?

Third straight season I'll have had him.
   25. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4380985)
. But consider this: Bisceglie correctly prognosticated that Melky Cabrera would be suspended last season for a failed PED test almost a month before his suspension came.

My sources tell me that Melky Cabrera will be suspended soon for violation of MLB’s PED policy

— Joe Bisceglie (@joebisceglie) July 18, 2012


I'd need to know how often this guy's sources were wrong- if they were wrong 25 times and right just once...
   26. Bob Tufts Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:00 AM (#4380988)
In 2012, 5 positive results out of 5,000 tests.
   27. GuyM Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:05 AM (#4380995)
You are NEVER going to be able to stop the use of PEDs....I mean, maybe, life in prison. But I doubt it.


I suspect these guys will use PEDs even more once they are in prison.....
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4380999)
Why would there need to be panic or an increase of penalties? What pct. of MLB (and milb) players got caught in the last 12 months?


And what pct of NFL players?
   29. AROM Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4381002)
You are NEVER going to be able to stop the use of PEDs....I mean, maybe, life in prison. But I doubt it.


Executions greatly reduce the number of repeat offenders.

   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4381003)
braun bobblehead day scheduled for game 51 in milwaukee
   31. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4381010)
braun bobblehead day scheduled for game 51 in milwaukee

His head keeps getting bigger! Clear evidence of steroids!
   32. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4381011)
Well if this is true it's gonna be an apocalypse for the Yanks.

If it's true.
   33. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4381012)
By the time all this plays out, the only upside for the Yankees is that they might actually be able to position themselves as "scrappy underdogs" for the first time since the days of Elliott Maddox and Larry Gura.
   34. Canker Soriano Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4381013)
And what pct of NFL players?

NFL players always talk about giving 110%. I bet that's in the ballpark for PED use.
   35. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4381014)
Odd that this coincides with the Yankees front office being singularly quiescent this past off-season. I wonder if they knew this was going to go down and decided to just give up on this year and keep their powder dry for the next.
It would make sense. But what's the turnaround time on these tests? The Yanks would have had to know about this early on to formulate an offseason strategy around it.

That is, of course, assuming that this isn't all just rumormongering bullshit.
   36. Bob Tufts Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4381016)
NFL players always talk about giving 110%


Hypnotist: You will beat Shelbyville.
Team: We will beat Shelbyville.
Hypnotist: You will give 110%.
Team: That's impossible. No one can give more than 100%. By definition, that is the most anyone can give.
   37. Blastin Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4381018)
It's not showing up anywhere else. And this type of thing tends to show up other places.

Now, if it's like the Melky thing, I guess we find out in a month. For now, I'm very skeptical (not that they couldn't possibly be using, but of the sourcing).
   38. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4381022)
It's not showing up anywhere else. And this type of thing tends to show up other places.

Now, if it's like the Melky thing, I guess we find out in a month. For now, I'm very skeptical (not that they couldn't possibly be using, but of the sourcing).
Click through to read what they write about that. The guy breaking the rumor was, indeed, 100% right about Melky and long before everyone else. And he says to people "look, I get it if you want to write me off again, but just remember you read it here first when ESPN acts like it's 'breaking' this story in four weeks."

So I guess we've got four weeks to go to test the validity of this rumor!

I hope it's false, really.
   39. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4381023)
You are NEVER going to be able to stop the use of PEDs....I mean, maybe, life in prison. But I doubt it.


In 2012, 5 positive results out of 5,000 tests.


Well, you can't literally stop all use, but you can, as quote #2 shows, certainly take out a huge chunk of it, at least temporarily.
Thats a good thing.
   40. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4381024)
This kind of story is explosive, and deserves tender care before people start going on witch hunts


Well, we can't have that happen.
   41. John Northey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:44 AM (#4381025)
If I was MLB and wanted to find out who was leaking this stuff then sending out this rumour via one group would sure make it obvious who the leak was.

Still, with appeals and the like odds are the tests are known a month or so before they are announced which gives a big opening for people to leak info to the press. Did anyone else leak Cabrera's test last year before it was announced?
   42. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4381027)
My question is...who the hell is Joe Bisceglie?
   43. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4381030)
This shouldn't have been posted. Even given that this guy has gotten one thing right in the past, it's still a completely unsubstantiated rumor at this point. If and when this is actually proven, then we can have a talk about what it means. But this? This isn't smoke. It's not even steam.
   44. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4381031)
If I was MLB and wanted to find out who was leaking this stuff


I don't think MLB cares at all. Bud Selig issued a public statement about Ryan Braun's supposedly confidential appeal.
   45. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4381032)
Did anyone else leak Cabrera's test last year before it was announced?
Um...yeah. This guy. A month before it was officially announced. Which is why people are paying attention to what he's saying now, and why this is being given more credit than the standard BS rumor would.
   46. Blastin Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4381033)
If and when this is actually proven, then we can have a talk about what it means. But this? This isn't smoke. It's not even steam.


Yep.
   47. Nasty Nate Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4381034)
If and when this is actually proven, then we can have a talk about what it means. But this? This isn't smoke. It's not even steam.


It something is proven, than it is no longer smoke or steam (i.e. a rumor), it is actual fire.
   48. AROM Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4381037)
By the time all this plays out, the only upside for the Yankees is that they might actually be able to position themselves as "scrappy underdogs" for the first time since the days of Elliott Maddox and Larry Gura.


Melido Perez, Oscar Azocar, and Alvaro Espinoza may or may not fit your definition of scrappy, but they sure were underdogs. Definitely hard to look back with any affection for some of those guys though, like drunk driving killer Jim Leyritz and sex offenders Mel Hall and Luis Polonia. Certainly nobody had any illusions about that group contending for anything.
   49. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4381038)
Joe Bisceglie (the guy breaking this news, who also broke Melky) writes an article following up

Excerpt:
The most common response other than “wow” was something along the lines of “why should we listen to you, you have no credibility?” You guys are all right, I have no credibility. I can’t even name my source for you. One of the worst things about the internet is that any idiot can write any nonsense and post it as “news”. I wouldn’t have even read my own story unless it got picked up by ESPN or Yahoo or some other reputable sports website. I’m not a journalist. I’m not fuckin’ Peter Gammons, or Buster Olney. I’m a guy who took one journalism class 100 years ago in college...The most popular feature I write includes a picture of an attractive woman at the end so that people will actually read it.
Well worth reading in full.
   50. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:58 AM (#4381040)
Can someone who knows more then me tell me the health dangers of a highly regulated, monitored, cyclical PED program? Maybe we should ask Daniel Craig or Tom Cruise?

   51. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4381042)
Joe Bisceglie (the guy breaking this news, who also broke Melky) writes an article following up


He sounds like a guy telling the truth, but he doesn't appear to have done any follow-up work. All he has to go on is his source.
   52. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4381043)
To people questioning him on Twitter, the guy 1.) is standing by the story (i.e. the source who told him about Melky is telling him this too); 2.) welcomes being doubted. ("Dude, you SHOULD question me. Everyone should question every thing otherwise we get Manti Te'o or Lance all over again.")

Gotta say, if he's just a nutjob spuriously inventing BS he's doing a sociopathically great job of building confidence in his audience.
   53. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4381045)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a report like this mean that all four have failed their tests and are currently in the appeals process?
   54. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4381048)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a report like this mean that all four have failed their tests and are currently in the appeals process?
That's a great question, and one I'd love the answer to from someone who knows something about the "timeline" for these sorts of affairs.
   55. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4381052)
Still, with appeals and the like odds are the tests are known a month or so before they are announced which gives a big opening for people to leak info to the press. Did anyone else leak Cabrera's test last year before it was announced?


If this report is true, I would expect these players to challenge their test results. Just to provide an example of how these things might play out in terms of timing if a player challenges a positive test result -- i.e., how long before the player is informed of a positive test and he is suspended if he challenges and loses -- Rafael Palmeiro was notified that he had tested positive on May 19, 2005. It was not until August 1, 2005 that he was suspended and the positive test result was publicly disclosed.

The timeline in Palmeiro's case:

March 17, 2005: Palmeiro testifies before Congress; says he has never used steroids.
May 4, 2005: Palmeiro takes a random drug test.
May 19, 2005: The MLBPA informs Palmeiro that he has tested positive for steroids.
<The grievance/arbitration process takes place>
August 1, 2005: Palmeiro's grievance is denied and Selig announces his suspension.

So, everything took about 10 weeks in that case.

If I was MLB and wanted to find out who was leaking this stuff then sending out this rumour via one group would sure make it obvious who the leak was.


It's difficult to figure out where these leaks are without conducting an investigation. The parties involved in Palmeiro's case included:

MLB
MLBPA
HPAC
Selig
Doctor witnesses
Various staff of these parties


   56. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4381056)
But is the process the same today as it was back when Palmeiro tested positive? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the appeals process had been streamlined considerably.
   57. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4381057)
But is the process the same today as it was back when Palmeiro tested positive? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the appeals process had been streamlined considerably.


Braun was tested in September (I think) and the appeal was finalized in February.
   58. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4381058)
The comment about the Yankees' offseason strategy is interesting. It's possible that the tests were right after the season ended and the players have been in the appeals process all winter. If the Yankees got the test results in November, they could have decided to punt on FAs and major trades.
   59. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4381059)
The comment about the Yankees' offseason strategy is interesting. It's possible that the tests were right after the season ended and the players have been in the appeals process all winter. If the Yankees got the test results in November, they could have decided to punt on FAs and major trades.


Well, let's examine. They didn't move to re-sign either Swisher or Martin, and so they currently are short a corner OF and a C. What else?
   60. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4381063)
Braun was tested in September (I think) and the appeal was finalized in February.
Huh. Took that long. Anyone know when Melky tested positive? If he was finally suspended in August that would mean he likely got nicked sometime in April, right?

As Yeaaarrgghhh (hey, way to have a nearly un-citable username, bro) points out, that sort of delay between "positive" and final results really does fit in with the idea that the Yankees punted this offseason precisely because they realized they were going to be in a terrible position.

Question: IF THIS IS ALL TRUE, what does one make of the recent report that the Yanks made a "substantial" offer to Cano last month? Does that story tend to make this rumor less likely to be true?

Yes, rumormongering is of questionable taste, but man this is fun to talk about.
   61. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4381064)
Yeah, it seems that Braun took his test in October 2011, and everything was still confidential until December 10th, when it was leaked to Outside The Lines. Braun's successful result was in January.
   62. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4381065)
If true, will Jeter finally retreat from his annual "parade or bust" proclamations?
   63. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4381066)
As Yeaaarrgghhh (hey, way to have a nearly un-citable username, bro) points out, that sort of delay between "positive" and final results really does fit in with the idea that the Yankees punted this offseason precisely because they realized they were going to be in a terrible position.


If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.
   64. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:36 PM (#4381068)
No surprise, I guess: A quick Google search indicates that no one other than BTF has picked up the SportsGrid report.

EDIT: OTOH, I imagine that by now lots of folks are aware of its existence.
   65. Nasty Nate Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:36 PM (#4381070)
If the Yankees were really punting 2013, why would they spend a lot of money on Kuroda and Youkilis for one-year deals?
   66. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4381072)
If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.

I don't think so. Whether steroid should be banned or not is one issue and whether a player breaks the agreed upon rules is another. The players are culpable for ruining the Yankees' season (if this rumor is true) not MLB.

On the bright side, the Yanks would save a crap-ton of cash if this rumor is true, no? Hot dogs are free this year at NYS!
   67. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4381074)
If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.

Why, are they going to cancel the World series?
   68. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4381075)
If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.


I'm generally a PED apologist, but this can easily be spun back the other way. If the Yankees were at the top of the success cycle because three of their star players were using banned performance-enhancing substances, then they had no business being at the "top of the success cycle" to begin with.

It would suck for Yankee fans to have to suffer through a punted season, but they have enjoyed (potentially) illicit success in the years prior to this coming season. The rules permit the Yankees to outspend everyone in baseball, the rules explicitly prohibit the Yankees from running out a lineup that is 33% filled out by PED users.
   69. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4381076)

If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.


... This is probably antithetical to MLB's line of thinking. This story plays as "exactly the sort of incentive necessary to get clubs to crack down on use." If anything, I think that something like this goes to show how "serious" MLB is about correcting its PED problem. It'll lead to stories about how a 95 win team was built on juicers, but it'll also "prove" that MLB's testing is working and being conducted in good faith.

The only trouble is the continued PED black eye, but given the pervasiveness of the story through every major sport except the NBA (for some weird reason), I think the league's doggedness mitigates that.

This is a victory for the collective bargaining process and league-wide order, if anything.
   70. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4381077)
If the Yankees were really punting 2013, why would they spend a lot of money on Kuroda and Youkilis for one-year deals?
Well they have to get SOMETHING to fill the gap, right? They can't pull a "Mets," after all. The fans would revolt.
   71. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4381080)
If the Yankees were really punting 2013, why would they spend a lot of money on Kuroda and Youkilis for one-year deals?

Hedging their bets. The appeals might be successful, and they need at least a few supporting guys to field a decent team. And if the appeals aren't successful, Youkilis and Kuroda might keep them around .500 and the fans from revolting. Plus, it isn't that much money to the Yankees.

   72. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4381082)
This story plays as "exactly the sort of incentive necessary to get clubs to crack down on use." If anything, I think that something like this goes to show how "serious" MLB is about correcting its PED problem.

I could see MLB suspending them for exactly this reason. "See, we're willing to suspend some of our biggest stars!"
   73. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4381086)
Notice that nobody's talking about Ryan Braun. Is it because absolutely nobody is surprised?

Have to say, the idea he would continue to shamelessly use after being caught once already (and escaping on a technicality) is breathtakingly arrogant.
   74. John Northey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4381088)
This will be ugly if confirmed. Of course, as a Jays fan I'd like it to hold off until Granderson heals so the maximum number of games missed by him could occur :)

One does wonder what Cashman will do though. If he knows that he is likely to lose 2 top players for 50 games each on top of the time he knew A-Rod would be gone for then how to handle it? Do you trade for quality guys to fill in, do you 'ride it out' and try to find out if any kids in AAA are ready, do you sign a few vets and see if lightning in a bottle can be found? Probably a mix, sign a few vets, hope a kid or two works out, and try to make a trade but don't mortgage the future on it. 2013 was going to be hard for the Yankees anyways so this just makes it more interesting.

So AL East - Jays have to be the heavy favorites now, Rays up there too, then Yankees while the Orioles & Red Sox hope for some luck in 2013 (to the level the O's had it last year).
   75. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4381089)
Have to say, the idea he would continue to shamelessly use after being caught once already (and escaping on a technicality) is breathtakingly arrogant.

Right now I'm thinking more how this would affect the teams in a hypothetical way. This story needs a confirmation before I'll start LOLing at the players. They should be warned that I am sharpening my snark, though...
   76. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4381090)
Notice that nobody's talking about Ryan Braun. Is it because absolutely nobody is surprised?


What is there to talk about? We don't know anything. But I guess that doesn't stop you from talking about it anyway. I guess this is what you wanted to talk about:

Have to say, the idea he would continue to shamelessly use after being caught once already (and escaping on a technicality) is breathtakingly arrogant.


I suppose you're an expert in this area, so I'll defer to your wisdom.
   77. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4381096)
Eso, do you want the players to be guilty? Even from a complete anti-steroid perspective, I don't get that.
   78. gehrig97 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4381097)
Sigh. I could give a #### about Braun and A-Rod, but I really hope this guy is wrong. Cano, to me, has the most beautiful swing since Will Clark. Granderson isn't an elite player, but he's a gamer, fun to watch, and by all accounts a truly good guy who genuinely cares about giving back to the community.

   79. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4381099)
Have to say, the idea he would continue to shamelessly use after being caught once already (and escaping on a technicality) is breathtakingly arrogant.

Didn't Braun test positive in September? He may have failed another test, after the first positive test but before all the controversy surrounding it exploded.
   80. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:00 PM (#4381101)
Eso, do you want the players to be guilty? Even from a complete anti-steroid perspective, I don't get that.


Esoteric's entire m.o. on this issue has been to look down upon acused players with scorn - after concluding that they're guilty because the accusation alone suffices as evidence for him. Most people save their scorn for criminals, rapists, child molestors, murderers... those sorts of people. Not Esoteric. A heavy dose of his scorn is proudly set aside for baseball players accused of using steroids. He must be such a better person than them.
   81. TJ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4381103)
Maybe we can start a new fantasy dead pool league but, instead of choosing people you think might pass away, you choose players you think will get busted for PEDs. Winner gets a 1987 Topps Rafael Palmeiro rookie card...
   82. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4381104)
Eso, do you want the players to be guilty? Even from a complete anti-steroid perspective, I don't get that.
I don't actually have any brief against Cano, Granderson, or even A-Rod (who I just pity at this point). But Braun was already caught once and failed to serve any suspension because he escaped on a true technicality. So if this latest rumor is true -- a mighty big "if"! -- then yes, from my perspective it is a bit of just desserts. Furthermore, my comment was also intended in a more observational sense of "what is a guy like that thinking?" I mean, Braun isn't a marginal player hanging on by his teeth to a job. Wouldn't prudence have dictated that, after his narrow escape last year, that he give it a rest for awhile?

I do understand I'm edging out onto a limb here because all of these questions are predicated on rather risky assumption that this story is correct. So if you want to smack me for that, I'll take the hits deservedly.
   83. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:04 PM (#4381105)
Not Esoteric. A heavy dose of his scorn is proudly set aside for baseball players accused of using steroids. He must be such a better person than them.


I like to proudly set aside a healthy dose of my scorn for people who post on the internet.
   84. madvillain Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4381106)
I posted the article late last night because I think it's a) incredibly newsworthy and b) although nothing more than one man's anonymous source -- this man has been right before wrt to Melky's test.

It's a twitter and anonymous sourced world right now and this guy has had the goods before, however obtained. I think it's worth watching and talking about. And for anyone that doesn't want BTF to print rumors -- come on! BTF is rarely a primary source (with the expectations that go with that) and BTF readers should have the capability to parse this out among themselves rather than on disparate places around the Internet.

In my corner of the Internet (michigan, white sox and bulls message boards) this is big news. I'd assume it's big news in most people's corners of the 'net.
   85. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4381107)

If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.


That's silly. As a Yankee fan, if the three guys cheated, they deserve the suspension, and the Yankees deserve a shitty year.
   86. Esoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:08 PM (#4381108)
Esoteric's entire m.o. on this issue has been to look down upon acused players with scorn - after concluding that they're guilty because the accusation alone suffices as evidence for him. Most people save their scorn for criminals, rapists, child molestors, murderers... those sorts of people. Not Esoteric. A heavy dose of his scorn is proudly set aside for baseball players accused of using steroids. He must be such a better person than them.
Really, Ray? Really?

1.) I reserve something far greater than mere "scorn" for rapists, child molestors, and murderers. I sure hope you do too. "Scorn" is a rather gentle form of disapproval, all things considered.

2.) The idea that my scorn for PED users somehow crowds out my ability to feel outrage about more important things is just silly; it's an entry-level internet arguing tactic.

3.) The question of whether I'm a "better person" than PED users is strangely orthogonal to this entire debate. I don't recall ever having even thought about the issue in those terms. Interestingly enough, what I DO know is that I have gone out of my way in past Primer PED discussions to state that I don't think I'm 'better' or morally superior to people who sit on the other side of this debate (like you, or a majority of Primates for that matter). How ironic for you to write this, given the pains I've shown in the past to stipulate my respect for people who disagree with me.
   87. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4381109)
I like to proudly set aside a healthy dose of my scorn for people who post on the internet.

And what about their pants?
   88. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:13 PM (#4381113)
I'm torn between "this is terrible for MLB and I wish all the steroid stuff would go away," and "ha, ha, screw the Yankees!"
   89. SoSH U at work Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4381115)
And what about their pants?


That's A Smitty* of a different color (or, at least one of a different fashion sense).

   90. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4381116)
This whole thing is stupid. I wish I could just fast-forward to the part of history where people stop worrying about PEDs again.


If the Rockies can substitute balls that travel farther when their team is batting, I assume we're jiggy with that, along with sign stealing?
   91. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4381118)
And what about their pants?


I'm assuming that someone here with a similar handle to mine has publicly expressed a distate for trousers in all their varieties, because these references often get directed at me.

Oddly enough, I'm also no fan of leg-sleeves, but I've always kept my feelings private. Consequently, all these references make me feel like BBTF users are throughly inside my innermost thoughts.
   92. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4381119)
I like to proudly set aside a healthy dose of my scorn for people who post on the internet.

And what about their pants?

And what about people on the internet who are pants?
   93. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4381120)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a report like this mean that all four have failed their tests and are currently in the appeals process?


Not necessarily; SportsGrid might have a staff of pre-cogs.
   94. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4381121)
But Braun was already caught once and failed to serve any suspension because he escaped on a true technicality.


A "true" technicality. Uh-huh.

What do you think the point of "technicalities" are? "Technicalities" are rules designed to protect the accused from abuses and errors and bring integrity, propriety, and fairness to the process.

Braun's case was of course not a criminal matter, but the same concepts apply. If you are ever accused of a crime, can we throw the laws away and just wing it in order to prosecute you? You don't care whether you get 4th Amendment protections, for example? The police can conduct illegal searches on you without repercussion? We can just use the evidence? It's hard to believe a noted right-winger such as yourself would thumb your nose at due process and sneer at people for making the proper arguments in their defense, but you do it in Braun's case, which is curious to me.
   95. flournoy Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4381122)
Eso, do you want the players to be guilty? Even from a complete anti-steroid perspective, I don't get that.


I'm not Esoteric, and I don't subscribe to his steroid views. But I want it to be true. It would be fun! It's too bad Braun's name is in there as well, since I like him, but having three Yankees get suspended sounds like a blast. What's not to love?
   96. TJ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4381124)
"I like to proudly set aside a healthy dose of my scorn for people who post on the internet.

And what about their pants?"

Are you assuming that those posting on the internet are wearing pants?
   97. 'Spos Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4381125)
If true, will Jeter finally retreat from his annual "parade or bust" proclamations?


"parade or perp walk"
   98. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4381126)
I'm assuming that someone here with a similar handle to mine has publicly expressed a distate for trousers in all their varieties, because these references often get directed at me.

D'oh. Sorry!

   99. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4381127)
3.) The question of whether I'm a "better person" than PED users is strangely orthogonal to this entire debate. I don't recall ever having even thought about the issue in those terms. Interestingly enough, what I DO know is that I have gone out of my way in past Primer PED discussions to state that I don't think I'm 'better' or morally superior to people who sit on the other side of this debate (like you, or a majority of Primates for that matter). How ironic for you to write this, given the pains I've shown in the past to stipulate my respect for people who disagree with me.


On the issue of steroids, Ryan Braun has more honor than you ever will.
   100. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4381129)
If the Rockies can substitute balls that travel farther when their team is batting, I assume we're jiggy with that, along with sign stealing?


This. The reply might be "But 'roids cause health problems". However, if that's the case, why doesn't MLB simply say as much? It'd make them look less hypocritical.
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