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Tuesday, March 05, 2013

Rumor: Cano, A-Rod, Braun To Be Suspended for Failed PED Test

  Anonymous Source: Cano, Granderson, A-Rod and Braun will all be suspended for failing PED test this season.

  — Joe Bisceglie (@joebisceglie) March 4, 2013

You’d be inclined to be skeptical, and for fair reason — Bisceglie doesn’t name his source. This kind of story is explosive, and deserves tender care before people start going on witch hunts and throwing names out there with no rationale. But consider this: Bisceglie correctly prognosticated that Melky Cabrera would be suspended last season for a failed PED test almost a month before his suspension came.

  My sources tell me that Melky Cabrera will be suspended soon for violation of MLB’s PED policy

  — Joe Bisceglie (@joebisceglie) July 18, 2012

madvillain Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:31 AM | 414 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: steroids

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   101. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4381131)
Braun's case was of course not a criminal matter, but the same concepts apply. If you are ever accused of a crime, can we throw the laws away and just wing it in order to prosecute you? You don't care whether you get 4th Amendment protections, for example? The police can conduct illegal searches on you without repercussion? We can just use the evidence? It's hard to believe a noted right-winger such as yourself would thumb your nose at due process and sneer at people for making the proper arguments in their defense, but you do it in Braun's case, which is curious to me.
Ray, I can acknowledge that the system worked as it should have in terms of process while still believing that a guilty man went free. This shouldn't be too difficult a thing to grasp: the system is still worth having and preserving even it sometimes leads to what we would deem to be improper outcomes. The administrative procedures involved in steroid testing exist for a reason, and the penalty for failing to follow them sometimes leads to outcomes that, hopefully, will make people more careful about following them in the future.

But yes, Braun's case was a true technicality. It was, IIRC, a chain-of-evidence issue where the sample containing his urine was mailed to the central laboratory a day or two later than it ought to have been. Nobody alleged how this lateness could have affected the chemical composition of the sample (nor were there allegations of tampering with the sample), it was just a pure "you didn't follow the rules to the letter, so I walk free." Fine. As I said above, that is the (in many ways laudable) outcome of a failure to follow proper procedure. But how you get from that to "so obviously nobody can justifiably think Ryan Braun was a PED user!" is a mystery to me.
   102. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4381133)
On the issue of steroids, Ryan Braun has more honor than you ever will.
This is hilarious. WTF does this even MEAN?
   103. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4381136)
Would this be worse for Andy than 2004?
   104. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4381137)
Ray, I can acknowledge that the system worked as it should have in terms of process while still believing that a guilty man went free. This shouldn't be too difficult a thing to grasp: the system is still worth having and preserving even it sometimes leads to what we would deem to be improper outcomes.


The outcome was proper. That is the entire point that you fail to grasp, because you're not interested in fairness or due process.
   105. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4381139)
Why is this bad for MLB? Isn't it good that the testing program is working and catching even big stars? This seems like something they can point to and say yes, the system is working.
   106. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4381140)
#49--you're right, Joe's whole post is awesome. For instance, on Cano:

Sometimes guys are small and then their bodies fill out because they work out and eat right and they hit a lot of home runs playing in the equivalent of a little league stadium with a jet stream.

   107. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4381142)
On the issue of steroids, Ryan Braun has more honor than you ever will.

This is hilarious. WTF does this even MEAN?


Hits Over Normally Obtainable Replacements.
   108. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4381146)
Why is this bad for MLB? Isn't it good that the testing program is working and catching even big stars? This seems like something they can point to and say yes, the system is working.


Because it keeps manifesting the "baseball players are dopers" meme. However, it also pushes the "MLB is cleaning up its act with tough testing!" meme, and I think given the extreme pervasiveness of PEDs in sport, the latter is the prevalent one at this point.

   109. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4381147)
The outcome was proper. That is the entire point that you fail to grasp, because you're not interested in fairness or due process.


I think he grasps it; however, I think he might have a problem grasping the "proper" modifier on occasion.
   110. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4381148)
I've edited my #101 to clarify a few things.
   111. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:40 PM (#4381155)
101-I think its fair to say the system failed Braun in that his positive result, which was supposed to be kept confidential until his appeal ran
its course, got leaked. Had the "system" really operated the way is was intended and negotiated to operate, we wouldn't even know about the whole
Baun/Fedex affair. Right?
   112. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4381158)
How ironic for you to write this, given the pains I've shown in the past to stipulate my respect for people who disagree with me.


looks in thread, does a spit take...
   113. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4381159)
101-I think its fair to say the system failed Braun in that his positive result, which was supposed to be kept confidential until his appeal ran
its course, got leaked. Had the "system" really operated the way is was intended and negotiated to operate, we wouldn't even know about the whole
Baun/Fedex affair. Right?


But isn't it rumored that Braun's people leaked it?
   114. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4381164)
ut isn't it rumored that Braun's people leaked it?


why on earth would Braun's people leak it?
   115. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4381167)
looks in thread, does a spit take...
Erm, how is this in any way not true? Sure, I have been (and can be) an ass in any number of other contexts (one of the reasons I decided to stop participating in political threads, in fact!), but go back and check out my participation in any PED/steroid thread...I try really hard to be respectful in these debates, precisely because they have a tendency to get so fraught otherwise. I'm probably not perfect, but I put in an effort to be civil.
   116. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4381169)
Erm, how is this in any way not true?


well sure it quite possibly may be true if you throw out political threads...
   117. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4381173)

If the Yankees actually punted a season, not because they were in a rebuilding phase, but because the drug testing left them without a chance to compete despite being at the top of the success cycle, it is a horrid result for MLB that has done a thousand times more damage than the entire steroids issue ever did.


Yes, much like the way Charlie Comiskey unfairly suffered by losing eight of his players -- including several of his best stars -- for something he didn't even do!
   118. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:55 PM (#4381176)
Ray, people like Braun and A-Rod are entertainers. With very few exceptions, that's all these people are. They play a game children play. By accident of time and place, and the ENTERTAIN ME, NOW!!!! idiocracy we're doomed to be citizens of, they happen to be very well compensated for what they do.(*)

So the answer to your question as to the vast majority of these people is yes, I'm a better person than they are. I do more for society, I'm smarter, I'm better educated, and better behaved. I'm better adjusted. So, by all accounts, are you and, I'd venture, most of the people who post here.

(*) None of this is, of course, to denigrate the enjoyment we all get from baseball, the institution.

On the issue of steroids, Ryan Braun has more honor than you ever will.


Oh, good lord.


   119. Lassus Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4381177)
I think Esoteric's comically wrong on a myriad of issues - Genesis, primarily - but he's mostly quite agreeable to disagreement.
   120. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4381179)
well sure it quite possibly may be true if you throw out political threads...
But I haven't participated in one of those in nearly a year at this point. Maybe I dropped into say something once or twice over the summer, I dunno, but do you see me around there anymore? And it's been a long, long time. So perhaps it's time for you to update your impression. Besides, I was talking strictly about the PED/steroids issue.

EDIT: Heck, here I am all the way back in 2007:
I'm not looking for a fight on the matter because I consider a man's view on the steroids issue to be largely a question of personal disposition, not a "justiceable" matter. Both sides have significant logical lacunae in their arguments; Anti-PED arguments have trouble drawing brightline distinctions and dealing with the practical consequences stemming from labelling players and their numbers "illegitimate." Pro-PED arguments often get so tangled in hair-splitting casuistry that they fail to engage with the overarching moral truth: this is cheating, and a deception of the audience. My disposition happens to fall towards the "pwn them all" side, but that doesn't mean I would seek to impose it on others. There is room enough in this world for me, Kevin, Gambling Rent, and Nieporent as far as I'm concerned when it comes to this question.
Pretty much the same tone (and point of view) then as now.
   121. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4381181)
I think Esoteric's comically wrong on a myriad of issues - Genesis, primarily - but he's mostly quite agreeable to disagreement.
What, you're gonna go knocking Genesis? #### YOU, BUDDY.

#### YOU.
   122. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4381182)
The band or the 1st book of the Bible?
   123. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4381183)
well sure it quite possibly may be true if you throw out political threads...
But I haven't participated in one of those in nearly a year at this point. Maybe I dropped into say something once or twice over the summer,


My impression of "you" was formed by political threads- maybe I just accidentally saw your only political posts,
I honestly don't have an impression regarding what you write on PEDs threads but I assume you are more civil than Kevin was (everyone is) and more logically coherent than Andy (everyone is)
   124. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4381186)
   125. Greg K Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4381187)
So the answer to your question as to the vast majority of these people is yes, I'm a better person than they are. I do more for society, I'm smarter, I'm better educated, and better behaved. So, by all accounts, are you and, I'd venture, most of the people who post here.

I don't see how you can know any of those things about yourself in comparison to Ryan Braun (with the exception of better educated, which I'd argue is the least important).

I get wanting to avoid seeing personal nobility and morality in how a guy plays baseball, but I don't get where the assumption that baseball players are unintelligent and don't do much for society comes from. Or do you just have a really high estimation of the people here at BTF? I'm pretty comfortable in guessing that most MLB players are better people than me on those scores (again, with the exception of education).
   126. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4381191)
The band or the 1st book of the Bible?


Neither has aged well.
   127. JJ1986 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4381192)
more civil than Kevin was (everyone is) and more logically coherent than Andy (everyone is)


You must have failed to encounter one of the regular steroid-thread posters here.
   128. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4381193)
I get wanting to avoid seeing personal nobility and morality in how a guy plays baseball, but I don't get where the assumption that baseball players are unintelligent and don't do much for society comes from. Or do you just have a really high estimation of the people here at BTF? I'm pretty comfortable in guessing that most MLB players are better people than me on those scores (again, with the exception of education).


Are you throwing your hat into the ring for the "History's Greatest Monster" competition? IIRC, the 41 slots before snapper are open.
   129. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4381198)
(with the exception of better educated, which I'd argue is the least important).

Are you suggesting that educating yourself and making the sacrifices to educate yourself for citizenship and life is an ethically neutral endeavor?
   130. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4381201)
Neither has aged well.

And neither has...your mom?
   131. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4381202)
My impression of "you" was formed by political threads- maybe I just accidentally saw your only political posts, I honestly don't have an impression regarding what you write on PEDs threads but I assume you are more civil than Kevin was (everyone is) and more logically coherent than Andy (everyone is)

Hmmmm, so far I'm routinely mocked and / or damned by Nieporent, Ray, Kehoskie, tfbg9, GoodFace, and now Johnny Sycophant. That's quite an All-Star lineup of assorted geniuses and statesmen.

Ahhh, but fuck it, I'm holding out for Nixon.

   132. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4381203)
Are you suggesting that educating yourself and making the sacrifices to educate yourself for citizenship and life is an ethically neutral endeavor?


Is that why people do it? Or to simply pull in more scratch.
   133. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4381205)
Hey I mock you Andy, but I don't damn you. Just so ya' know.
BTW, is it me, or are your dentures a little crooked today?
   134. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4381206)
Hmmmm, so far I'm routinely mocked and / or damned by Nieporent, Ray, Kehoskie, tfbg9, GoodFace, and now Johnny Sycophant.
BUT DO YOU HAVE HONOR
   135. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4381209)
Are you suggesting that educating yourself and making the sacrifices to educate yourself for citizenship and life is an ethically neutral endeavor?


If the result of education was leading one to believe that they're automatically superior to people they've never met, then it may not even be ethically neutral.
   136. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4381212)
BTW, is it me, or are your dentures a little crooked today?

Not yet, but I'll thank you not to mention my hairline.

------------------------------

BUT DO YOU HAVE HONOR

Depends. How much you want for it?
   137. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4381214)
Not yet, but I'll thank you not to mention my hairline.


Wear a hat.
   138. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4381218)
Hmmmm, so far I'm routinely mocked and / or damned by Nieporent, Ray, Kehoskie, tfbg9, GoodFace, and now Johnny Sycophant. That's quite an All-Star lineup of assorted geniuses and statesmen.

Ahhh, but #### it, I'm holding out for Nixon.


now? What do you mean now? I've been mocking your PEDs stance for years, and you've only just noticed now?
Am I that forgettable?
   139. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4381219)
Depends. How much you want for it?
FOR BESMIRCHING MY HONOR BY SUGGESTING THAT I WOULD PURCHASE HONOR, I CHALLENGE YOU TO BAT'LETHS AT DAWN
   140. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4381220)
Are you throwing your hat into the ring for the "History's Greatest Monster" competition? IIRC, the 41 slots before snapper are open.

Nope all taken. My ACORM database is extremely comprehensive.

And Greg is Canadian. Like the worst thing he's ever done is trespass on a zoo.
   141. bunyon Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4381224)
And Greg is Canadian. Like the worst thing he's ever done is trespass on a zoo.

To pick up litter.
   142. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4381226)
#141 wins.
   143. The District Attorney Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4381227)
And Greg is Canadian.
That means he has no honor.
   144. The District Attorney Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4381228)
He has honour.
   145. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4381229)
braun is both a fine baseball player and a bit of an arrogant pr&ck;
so while any suspension would be disappointing it would not be surprising

and i would only be disappointed relative to the brewers season
   146. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4381232)
He has honour.

But it's covered in gravy and cheese.
   147. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4381234)
now? What do you mean now? I've been mocking your PEDs stance for years, and you've only just noticed now?
Am I that forgettable?


Refresh my memory: How does that 5th Amendment thingy go?

But anyway, the prior honor roll consists of those who mock or damn me even when they're agreeing with what I'm saying, but can't even bring themselves to acknowledge it, for fear of being a RINO or something. You haven't yet quite achieved that lofty peak, but as Jack Webb always said, "In America, there's always a tomorrow."

And as a tip, you might want to reconsider your posts in that Trout thread. You've come dangerously close to agreeing with me 100% on that issue.

----------------------------------

Depends. How much you want for it?

FOR BESMIRCHING MY HONOR BY SUGGESTING THAT I WOULD PURCHASE HONOR, I CHALLENGE YOU TO BAT'LETHS AT DAWN


Sorry, I'm not a morning person. What about nine ball at midnight?
   148. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4381235)
VERY WELL, NINE BALL AT MIDNIGHT... TO THE DEATH!
   149. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4381244)
And Greg is Canadian. Like the worst thing he's ever done is trespass on a zoo.

To pick up litter.


Which still places him in the running for History's Greatest Monster -- Canadian Division.
   150. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4381254)
And as a tip, you might want to reconsider your posts in that Trout thread. You've come dangerously close to agreeing with me 100% on that issue.


I don't think there's any poster I've disagreed with 100% of the time, you would be a really odd place to start...
   151. Davo Dozier Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4381291)
I only use steroids ironically.
   152. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4381296)
Why would there need to be panic or an increase of penalties?

Because.
   153. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4381304)
Any other fencers in the thread? Sometimes I like to watch YouTube videos of old early 20th century epee duels to first blood. Man, fencing is so different when the weapons are sharp.
   154. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4381306)
Any other fencers in the thread? Sometimes I like to watch YouTube videos of old early 20th century epee duels to first blood. Man, fencing is so different when the weapons are sharp.
   155. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4381307)
And that's like the 10th time I've done that today. What the #### is wrong with BTF?
   156. Morph Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:49 PM (#4381312)

   157. The District Attorney Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4381316)
What the #### is wrong with BTF?
Touché.
   158. Canker Soriano Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4381324)
What the #### is wrong with BTF?

The best way to beat this problem is make a post, then set your computer on fire and throw the smoldering remains into the deepest nearby body of water.

Buy a new computer, log back in, and you probably won't double post if you come back into the thread.

(but only probably)
   159. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4381327)
Primey 158.
   160. Blastin Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4381338)
The best way to beat this problem is make a post, then set your computer on fire and throw the smoldering remains into the deepest nearby body of water.

Buy a new computer, log back in, and you probably won't double post if you come back into the thread.

(but only probably)


This reminds me of this strip.
   161. smileyy Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4381345)
Why is this bad for MLB? Isn't it good that the testing program is working and catching even big stars?


Well, it doesn't seem to be having a deterring effect.
   162. Greg K Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4381349)
Are you suggesting that educating yourself and making the sacrifices to educate yourself for citizenship and life is an ethically neutral endeavor?

No, just that in a list of contributing to society, education, intelligence, and good behaviour (though that's a doozie, a lot depends on what that means), education is the one I'm not too bothered about when evaluating what kind of human being someone is. Maybe it's just because of my perspective as a heavily over-educated individual...but if I only have knowledge of a person in one of those four areas, education is the one I'm least confident of drawing any conclusions about them as a human being from.

EDIT: sorry for taking so long to respond. More adventures in education! (I just spent the last hour updating my footnotes).

DOUBLE EDIT: I also see I missed out on some Canadian hi-jinks. You all are lucky I happened to be occupied while you were besmirching the honour of Canada, or I'd have been forced to politely take in good humour.
   163. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4381362)
Can someone who knows more then me tell me the health dangers of a highly regulated, monitored, cyclical PED program? Maybe we should ask Daniel Craig or Tom Cruise?


You'd run the risk of people not having anything to get whipped up into a frothy moral panic about.
   164. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4381368)
I'd like chocolate sprinkles on my frothy moral panic, please.
   165. smileyy Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4381371)
FWIW, my dismay/schadenfreude comes from suspended players being stupid *($#holes who violate a contract with multi-million dollar consequences, rather than them being evil cheaters.
   166. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4381375)
Well, it doesn't seem to be having a deterring effect.
Allow a team to void a contract when a player tests positive, and that may be a deterrent.
   167. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4381378)
The band or the 1st book of the Bible?


And God said, Let there be light adult contemporary: and there was Phil Collins.
   168. Nasty Nate Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4381385)
Allow a team to void a contract when a player tests positive, and that may be a deterrent.


Only for players with bloated contracts.
   169. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4381388)
willcarrolldoesnotsuk


The first time I read this handle, my brain broke it down as doe-snot-suk and I thought, well, that's a bit harsh...
   170. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:05 PM (#4381394)
And God said, Let there be light adult contemporary: and there was Phil Collins.


And then God said, let us make him in the image of Popeye.
   171. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4381398)
Primey 158.
And not just the post, but the username as well. "Canker Soriano" is funny enough that I'm surprised I hadn't seen the joke before.
   172. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:11 PM (#4381404)
And then God said, let us make him in the image of Popeye.
Look, I'm not going to defend Phil Collins' solo career (Though I would stand up for a few songs: "Take Me Home," "I Don't Care Anymore," and eh f**k it I'll admit I love "Against All Odds"). But he is arguably one of the four or five greatest drummers in the history of rock music, and his singing voice was also impressively powerful before it started failing on him (ca. 1987 or so).

I would never argue that Genesis is objectively the GREATEST group of all time (my nominees there would be standard and boring), but they've been my FAVORITE act for as long as I've been a serious music fan, which is impressive because the other four slots in my notional top five have all been pretty much up for grabs over time (only The Who has also managed to hold on with such tenacity).
   173. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4381408)
The best way to beat this problem is make a post, then set your computer on fire and throw the smoldering remains into the deepest nearby body of water.

Buy a new computer, log back in, and you probably won't double post if you come back into the thread.

(but only probably)



This reminds me of this strip.


Reminds me of this song
   174. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4381410)
Genesis is to being a good band as Guy Woodhouse is to being a good husband.
   175. DanG Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4381413)
And God said, Let there be light adult contemporary: and there was Phil Collins.
And God saw that it was good (not great).
   176. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4381414)
Genesis is to being a good band as Guy Woodhouse is to being a good husband.
Listen to Selling England By The Pound and tell me whether you still think that's true.
   177. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4381418)
I still think its true. Hey, its a taste thing.
   178. Depressoteric Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4381421)
I still think its true. Hey, its a taste thing.
Man, that was a quick listen. That's a 52-minute album!

(Fair enough, though: de gustibus and all that.)
   179. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4381427)
If this ends up being true, the lineup would be something like this.

RF Ichiro
SS Jeter
3B Youk
1B Tex
DH Hafner
LF Rivera
2B Nunez
CF Gardner
C Stewart

CHAMPIONSHIP
   180. Blastin Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4381428)
Ah, you corrected yourself.
   181. robinred Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4381430)
I knew that this thread would be exciting when I saw Esoteric's handle.

I wonder if the story will actually turn out be true.
   182. Ron J2 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4381436)
#166

a) Doubtful. In the world of cycling, top riders are now being fired for suspicious activities (basically they have to account for their location 24*7*52). Not noticing any affect.
b) Why would the PA go for this?
c) It is worth noting that the rates of positive tests are way down from round 1 (supposedly anonymous, no penalties). In a sense it's pretty much what happened with recreational drugs. Probable cause testing hasn't completely eliminated them, but it's no longer the PR crisis that it was in the mid-80s.
   183. tfbg9 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4381446)
(Fair enough, though: de gustibus and all that.)


I am not a Genesis, Collins, or Peter Gabriel fan, but to tell you the truth, I was just looking for an excuse to use my Guy Woodhouse line.
   184. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:48 PM (#4381455)
Allow a team to void a contract when a player tests positive, and that may be a deterrent.

It'll never happen, and not only because the union would object. The clubs have been wildly successful at directing attention away from their own elbow-deep culpability in the steroid problem, with the assistance of the equally compromised sports media. That accomplished, no team wants to be the first one to take the public relations hit when they DON'T ostentatiously cut ties with the first player who happens to be far too valuable to dump.
   185. bunyon Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:51 PM (#4381461)
and eh f**k it I'll admit I love "Against All Odds"

And with that BTF's long search for history's greatest monster comes to an end.
   186. ASmitty Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:56 PM (#4381467)
and eh f**k it I'll admit I love "Against All Odds"

And with that BTF's long search for history's greatest monster comes to an end.


Make it a tie, then. I love "Against All Odds," it's a great break-up song. And let me tell you, I'm great at getting broken up with.
   187. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:02 PM (#4381479)
Allow a team to void a contract when a player tests positive, and that may be a deterrent.


If a player's contract was automatically terminated, he was suspended for 1 year from the date of the end of his appeal, and the team was still charged with the full price of the player's contract (but the money was turned over to, say, the RBI program) would that work for deterrence.
   188. Ron J2 Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4381496)
#187 I'm really, really doubtful that anything will get the number of players using to zero and the number being caught is not large right now.

Anybody who's using these days has been assured by somebody that he trusts that it's either legal (or if you prefer permitted under the CBA -- legality need not matter here) and/or undetectable.
   189. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4381497)
I love "Against All Odds," it's a great break-up song.


I'm more of a "Dead Flowers" man, myself.
   190. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:26 PM (#4381506)

#187 I'm really, really doubtful that anything will get the number of players using to zero and the number being caught is not large right now.

Anybody who's using these days has been assured by somebody that he trusts that it's either legal (or if you prefer permitted under the CBA -- legality need not matter here) and/or undetectable.


I don't think the endgame has ever been stamping out use entirely, beyond the odd press release. Testing is really there to make it very difficult to do successfully and for the whole system to serve as a major deterrent. It's about a "cleaner" game, and not a "totally clean" game. Someday, it will be about ending PED use entirely. Until then, it's about changing the culture of the game away from drug use and stigmatizing it.
   191. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4381510)
And God said, Let there be light adult contemporary: and there was Phil Collins.

was that the day he He was resting?
   192. TJ Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4381512)
In the Genesis WAR between Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins, which would be Fangraphs and which Baseball-Reference? And if Phil Collins is considered the "replacement level" for Peter Gabriel, what does that do to the WAR score for David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar?
   193. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4381513)
I'd like chocolate sprinkles on my frothy moral panic, please.

I think this is more commonly known as a Santorum.
   194. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: March 05, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4381516)
(*) None of this is, of course, to denigrate the enjoyment we all get from baseball, the institution.

I thought none of the people here actually enjoyed baseball - we just enjoy using it to look smarter than everyone else.
   195. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: March 05, 2013 at 07:11 PM (#4381534)
LF Rivera

Juan, Ruben, or Mariano?
   196. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4381551)
Jon Heyman says it ain't so.
   197. Publius Publicola Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4381581)
I love the hypocrisy of Ray in this one. On the one hand, he gets all legalistic about the chain of custody of Braun's urine sample, and how justice was served, as violations of protocol validated his innocence and the rule of law, while on the other, if a guy gets busted, he just handwaves it away, as though drug laws and corporate policies shouldn't count.
   198. SoSH U at work Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4381585)
Well, it doesn't seem to be having a deterring effect.


Serious question: What is the general suspicion of PED usage among big leaguers now vs. pre-testing? I'd guess it's down substantially, which would indicate that there has been a deterring effect. But do others believe the usage rates are the same as (or even greater than) before?

   199. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4381599)

I have no idea if this rumor is true or not, but the convoluted thinking around these kind of accusations is on full display in the article. He writes "[A-Rod's] body broke down and his play substantially declined right around the time MLB starting stricter testing," as though it's evidence that A-Rod used to be using and then stopped when they implemented testing. If that's the case, then how is it possible that A-Rod just failed a test?
   200. Steve Treder Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4381603)
the convoluted thinking around these kind of accusations

Giveaway clues that a player is juicing:

- He breaks down
- He displays remarkable durability
- His performance spikes
- He displays remarkable consistency
- He peaks late
- He peaks early
- He has brown eyes
- He has blue eyes
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