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Thursday, June 05, 2008

Rush vocalist makes donation to Negro Leagues Museum

Close to 200 baseballs, all autographed by former Negro Leagues baseball players or backers, have been donated to the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum by a somewhat surprising fan ... Rush singer/bassist Geddy Lee.

Really Repoz should write this intro, not me.

Mike Webber Posted: June 05, 2008 at 04:32 PM | 466 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: memorabilia, music, negro leagues

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   301. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2813155)
Springsteen doesn't interest me at all, though with you Esoteric, I find that early stuff better than the later stuff. Andere: I've heard the same is you re the guitar on "Can't Explain," and quite honestly it sounds like Townshend.

It's a twelve-string Rickenbacker, I think. Townshend played one all the time.
   302. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 07:57 PM (#2813156)
Springsteen used to be great down the Jersey Shore...then he signed that dopey contract and it was all over.

Feelies rule anyway.
Oh so gnomic, Repoz.
   303. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2813158)
on Darkness On The Edge Of Town I think he had already gotten too streamlined into shorthand lyrical cliches.


Hmmm...there are some tracks on there where he seems like he's on autopilot at times. But overall that's a record where he's pouring it out. But there are these passages on that record that still blow my mind after hundreds of listens - whenever the volume goes up in "Candy's Room" or that last whispered verse in "Prove It All Night."
   304. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2813159)
bads85
Darkness on The Edge of Town was put out, and the result was his masterpiece. Sometimes less is more.
No album with "Something In The Night," "Factory" AND "Streets Of Fire" can possibly be a masterpiece. Egads are those all ever clunkers. I'll give you "Badlands," "Candy's Room," "Racing In The Street" and "The Promised Land," though.
   305. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2813161)
People my age [41] dismiss him as a pop sludgemeister.

I'd say that after Goodbye, Yellow Brick Roadhe began his descent into that status, which was nearly complete with Captain Fantastic. Up to and including GYBR he was consistently pretty great, I think. But I'm not 41, I guess.
   306. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2813166)
You know what else from the late 1970s is amazing that hasn't been mentioned yet? The Pretenders' self-titled debut. One of the great power pop masterpieces, from stuff that could pass for punk ("Precious") to some really sweet sentiment-laced numbers. It's even got a 6-minute power ballad that works.

And their second album is almost as good.

James Honeyman-Scott....now there's a man who was taken from us far too soon.
   307. bads85 Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2813168)
by the time of Darkness On The Edge Of Town I think he had already gotten too streamlined into shorthand lyrical cliches.


What any shorthand lyrical cliches are on Darkness? The shift in Darkness was the songs became about how events affect people instead of people creating events. Gone were the romantic fools, replaced by those who had been squeezed by life. As one critic said, the desperados have became the desperate.

am I the ONLY person in the world who realizes that "Jungleland" is obviously the rock music version of West Side Story?


Of course it is; just as West Side Story was Broadway's modern Romeo and Juliet (at the time). However, Jungleland trandscends Broadway schmaltz in its last stanza. Jungleland is Incident on 57th Street on a large scale.
   308. Blubaldo Jimenez (OMJ) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2813170)
"You've read my file."

Clapton, Stones, Beatles....How about just some Dirty Mac?


Isn't Rush just a second rate Budgie with weird Canadian mannerisms?
   309. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2813172)
The Moog was in use LONG before "I Want You." Harrison had used it as the basis for his 1968 experimental album Electronic Sound,

Abbey Road was recorded in April of 1969. Electronic Sound in February of 1969 (and some in November of 1968).
   310. bads85 Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2813175)
No album with "Something In The Night," "Factory" AND "Streets Of Fire" can possibly be a masterpiece. Egads are those all ever clunkers.


I'll agree that Streets of Fire is a lesser song, but clunker is harsh. The other two are great songs -- both resonate with defeat -- in
Factory
, the father has been broken by what sustains his family (a very autobiographical song) and Something In The Night is about the livng in the aftermath of crushed dreams (in this case, escaping a dying town).
   311. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2813179)
1.) The Who never used a Moog. If you're think about the synth loops on Who's Next, those were done with an ARP, and represent real pioneering work on Townshend's part - only Terry Riley in the UK was using synth loops like that. (Hence "Baba O'Riley", or "Meher Baba in the style of Terry Riley")

But Moogs became famous not just for the screeching, buzz-saw leads like the one Wakeman lets fly. The bubbling low-end sound behind '70s funk and West Coast hip-hop, the bloops and bleeps of techno, the sci-fi sounds of the Aquarius Age -- all of that is Moog, too. The instrument figured in the most classic of classic rock albums: Abbey Road, Who's Next, Pet Sounds, Beggar's Banquet. Many of the best-known hits of Parliament-Funkadelic, Herbie Hancock, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder, Kraftwerk and Rush all lean on its tonal foundation.


http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/05/63523
   312. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2813186)
I don't care what Wired says, they're wrong about the Moog being used on Who's Next. They're not exactly musos, so I don't expect them to be right about all the details. I imagine they're confused by "The Song Is Over," which has a very Moog-sounding synthesizer during its instrumental section. It's played with a combination of VCS3 and ARP synthesizers.
   313. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2813187)
This is the sort of thing that could only be written by someone unfamiliar with his remarkably thoughtful, bluesy/rock/balladeering early work

I'm going to take a chance and also claim that Rock of the Westies also is underrated. I know he was burnt out and strung out for those sessions, but it's damn good. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road suffers from Double Album Syndrome. I'd take Captain and Westies over it unless you let me mix 40-to-45 minutes from the latter.
   314. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2813194)
Apropos of nothing, Marquee Moon is the best rock album ever. Discuss.
At minimum, it goes to the desert island with me. I can't believe that I lost touch with it for 20 years (early 80s until I bought the CD in the early oughts)

"Won't Get Fooled Again"
Let me run the Democratic ad campaign, and you'll be inundated with quick cuts from Bush's face to McCain's face with Iraq explosions in the background while hearing "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

real pioneering work on Townshend's part - only Terry Riley in the UK was using synth loops like that. (Hence "Baba O'Riley", or "Meher Baba in the style of Terry Riley")
Danged if I didn't learn something today. I really like Terry Riley (and Glass, Reich and their ilk).

Asbury Park/E Street Shuffle
Nothing wrong with Born To Run and subsequent Springsteen works, but these two are so different and still so fresh.
   315. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2813196)
Page was a master of the riff. Good Lord does Zep have a ridiculous catalog of monster riffs. That's hard to duplicate, and he was lacking in many other areas of rock guitar

So he's Tony Iommi then. Only with an extra half-finger.

Actually, I'll take Sabbath's riffs over Zeppelin's any day.

It is (I'm pretty sure that the opening licks are Keith) but it's Mick who carries out the extended outro, I think.

My favorite part of that is the intro, though.

Mick Taylor was great on Sway. He was great period.

And they never gave him a cut of the revenue. Just paid him a salary, like a session musician. They did the same thing with Ronnie Wood until after Bill Wyman left. By that time Wood had been in the Stones for 17 years.
   316. bads85 Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2813197)
If by that you mean a melodramatic, inflated, and unrealistic account of urban ethnic violence set to overproduced and syrupy music, yeah, I agree completely


That is true, if overstated a bit, until the last stanza in which Springsteen rends the romantic notions in the youths' heads. Youth itself is melodramatic, inflated, and unrealistic to the young (and often accompanied by overproduced and syrupy music). With the entire album, Springsteen captures the foolshness and egocentricity of youth. Whether that was intentional or not is another question. Unfortunatley, many fans accepted the anthems as literal gospels (especially the title track). The result was a backlash from other fans who were turned off by fawning.

A baseball comparison might be Bill James groupies --- those who run around citing James as infallible (and often what they are citing James never even said). They turn off others with their zealousness.
   317. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2813198)
Feelies rule anyway.

I used to see them at the Peanut Gallery in Haledon and a guy who left their band to become an accountant used to come to the bar where I worked "The Golden Steer" and drown his sorrows every Friday night, wishing he never left.
   318. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:34 PM (#2813199)
So he's Tony Iommi then. Only with an extra half-finger.

Actually, I'll take Sabbath's riffs over Zeppelin's any day.


Iommi deserves props for his riffage. However, Zep worked in more and different idioms than Sabbath. And no drummer they had could touch Bonzo.
   319. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#2813203)
I don't care what Wired says, they're wrong about the Moog being used on Who's Next.

This is easily settled by a look at the album cover, which IIRC lists every type of instrument used on the record in gory detail.
   320. A.T.F.W. Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2813205)
Actually, I'll take Sabbath's riffs over Zeppelin's any day.

Interesting. As one who worshipped both bands to ridiculous extremes growing up (I'm 38), I have to say that most of Sabbath's stuff has not aged well at all to my ears. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath was always my favorite, and I certainly can still enjoy some of that album, but most of the first three albums I can barely stand anymore. In contrast, my appreciation for Zeppelin has been re-ignited in recent years and almost all of it sounds great to me.
   321. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2813208)
This is easily settled by a look at the album cover, which IIRC lists every type of instrument used on the record in gory detail.
Not really gory detail. But it does provide instrumental credits, which I shall excerpt here:
Pete Townshend: Guitar, VCS3 and ARP synthesizers, Organ, Piano and Vocals.
No Moog, of course. For the record, the loops in "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" were based on lengthy ARP demos that Townshend later chopped up to form the framework of the two songs.
   322. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2813214)
Iommi deserves props for his riffage. However, Zep worked in more and different idioms than Sabbath. And no drummer they had could touch Bonzo.

Concur. Black Sabbath was kind of a minimalist, grayscale version of Led Zeppelin, riff wise. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

A discussion in Vegas led to the conclusion that Black Sabbath in its purest form was "Sweet Leaf."
   323. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2813215)
No Moog, of course. For the record, the loops in "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" were based on lengthy ARP demos that Townshend later chopped up to form the framework of the two songs.

And I'm not sure why anyone thinks that the synthesizer bits on those two songs came from a Moog.
   324. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2813216)
Interesting. As one who worshipped both bands to ridiculous extremes growing up (I'm 38), I have to say that most of Sabbath's stuff has not aged well at all to my ears. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath was always my favorite, and I certainly can still enjoy some of that album, but most of the first three albums I can barely stand anymore. In contrast, my appreciation for Zeppelin has been re-ignited in recent years and almost all of it sounds great to me.

I come from the opposite version. I hardly ever heard any Sabbath until I went to college, except Paranoid. Never really heard any of their albums all the way through until 4-5 years ago. The only aged parts to me are the satan-inspired lyrics. Oh, I don't like the extended solos on things like "A bit of Finger" but that's why I said they were mostly a riff band.

"After Forever" - incredibly underrated song.
   325. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2813218)
And I'm not sure why anyone thinks that the synthesizer bits on those two songs came from a Moog.
Agreed. They sound absolutely nothing like a Moog synthesizer. But apparently the belief is out there...I did a Google search and it comes up a bit. I guess it's because for a lot of non-musicians the Moog is the only "name" synthesizer from that era that they've ever heard of. (The VCS3 in particular was quite popular among art-rock/progressive acts back then but hasn't since come back into vogue the way the Moog has.)
   326. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2813220)
And I'm not sure why anyone thinks that the synthesizer bits on those two songs came from a Moog.

Probably because Moog is just synonymous with the synthesizer just like Band-Aid or something.
   327. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2813227)
Source? Every source I've seen credits Harrison, but I agree that stylistically it could be Lennon.


From Tell Me Why - The Beatles: Album by Album, Song by Song, by Tim Riley, p.242, in his analysis of "Hey Bulldog":

"Lennon's guitar solo is a daring piece of rhythmic work: it leaps in stops and starts, with crimped harmonies setting off high screaming outbursts (it recalls his solo in "You Can't Do That")."
   328. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2813228)
Yeah, "Sweet Leaf" is pretty much the quinessential Sabbath tune, except with no mention of Satan. Monster riff that has since become immortal (Beastie Boys nicked it for "Rhymin' & Stealin'"), thunderous tempo with a ponderous sped up passage that seems to be in there just to break things up. (If they could have found a way to do that without an abrupt and arbitrary tempo shift more often, it would have helped.)
   329. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2813230)
Anyone who loves Beatles music needs to see The Fab Faux if they ever have the chance. For those in NYC (or nearby) that's not a problem. Check out their website. It's a real treat hearing all those songs lovingly and perfectly recreated, especially the many the Beatles never played live.
   330. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:04 PM (#2813232)
A random claim: outside of Quadrophenia, which is sui generis, The Who's finest album is The Who Sell Out. You can have your Tommy, your Live At Leeds, your Who's Next...I'm taking the CD remaster of Sell Out to the desert island with me. It's a girl, Mrs. Walker, it's a girl...
   331. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:11 PM (#2813238)
I can't concur with #335. That album has only one truly great song, and its the one everyone knows already - "I Can See For Miles." "Tattoo" is a amusing little number, "Sunrise" is pretty nice and all. "Rael" is more interesting from a historic perspective than it is good.
   332. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2813241)
Here are my "greatest/favorite instrument" guys, although I'd shudder to see them all in a band together. Talk about a bad combo...

- Male Vocals: Peter Gabriel (more subjective than any other choice...I've just always been fascinated by his voice, both the early screeching and the later hoarseness)
- Female Vocals: Sandy Denny (none better. ever.)
- Lead guitar: Robert Fripp
- Rhythm Guitar: Pete Townshend (honorable mention: Peter Buck)
- Bass: John Entwistle
- Drums: Phil Collins (anyone who laughs at this has never heard him drum, period)- Keyboards: Elton John (honorable mention: Nicky Hopkins)
- Production/Sound effects weirdness: Brian Eno


Fully agree on both of those. As I mentioned earlier (in this thread, possibly), Sandy Denny is the best singer I've ever heard, of either gender, in any genre. And all those Disney songs reduce Collins to a joke in many people's eyes, and that's really unfair. He's a great, great, drummer.
   333. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2813244)
Answer Guy: You are wrong because you omitted mention of "Armenia City In The Sky," "Mary Anne With The Shaky Hands," "Odorono," "Our Love Was (one of their all time greats), "I Can't Reach You," and "Relax," as well as the great bonus tracks "Glittering Girl," "Jaguar," "Melancholia" and "Glow Girl."

It's their most effortlessly melodic, lighthearted album. And it's so bleedin' FUNNY that you can't help but break into a goofy grin as the silly mock-radio commercials weave their way in and out of the songs ("Radio London Reminds You: Go To The Church Of Your Choice!").
   334. JMM Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:17 PM (#2813245)
The Beatles are one of two bands where the lead guitarist might be the most obscure member of the band. The other is Motley Cure.

Mick Mars or Porl Thompson.

As for the greatest album ever, strange that none of you has spelled either Ocean Rain or Underwater Moonlight correctly.
   335. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:23 PM (#2813248)
Hmmm...Wikipedia claims that Paul McCartney was inspired by "I Can See For Miles" to write "Helter Skelter." I had never heard this before.
   336. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:23 PM (#2813249)
"Lennon's guitar solo is a daring piece of rhythmic work: it leaps in stops and starts, with crimped harmonies setting off high screaming outbursts (it recalls his solo in "You Can't Do That")."

I recall an online discussion of this from years ago but remember a conclusion that it was Lennon. I'd have to look it up.
   337. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:26 PM (#2813251)
Tommy is easily my favorite album by The Who. It was before Moon started his slide into being a useless drunk, and, musically at least, I think they pull off something amazing.
   338. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:31 PM (#2813258)
People seem to be confused so let me lay this to rest: it's Lennon playing the guitar solo on "Hey Bulldog." I have copies of the multitrack outtakes (which don't circulate publicly). On those you can hear the band discussing the matter.
   339. Posada Posse Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2813264)
"After Forever" - incredibly underrated song.


Agree 1000%; most of the Master of Reality album, including "Sweet Leaf", is really cool IMO. I like that album better than Paranoid because it's been less played out.
   340. salfino Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:38 PM (#2813267)
Tommy is easily my favorite album by The Who.

Tommy is the start of the overindulgent excess that I blame for the entire Prog movement, which sort of brings us full circle.
   341. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:39 PM (#2813268)
There are really only two albums where Moon was anything like a useless drunk though; The Who By Numbers and Who Are You. He does put together a decent performance on the title track of the latter, as if he knew it was the end, but otherwise it's slim pickings.
   342. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:42 PM (#2813270)
i have to say that sweet leaf is one of my least favorite sabbath songs ... almost always a skip when that comes up on shuffle ... after forever, children of the grave and into the void are the real heavy hitters on that album ... lords of this world isn't top tier, but has a wonderful shambling gait to it and even solitude, which probably isn't everyone's cup of tea, is interesting in the ways that it recalls planet caravan in instrumentation and sound

i'll second the nod to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, an album i like a lot and one that most casual listeners have probably never heard even a track from (unless it's the title cut)
   343. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:43 PM (#2813271)
I'll always have a soft spot for prog rock. I think people who've played drums are more prone to that than the general public.
   344. Posada Posse Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:44 PM (#2813273)
Mick Taylor was great on Sway. He was great period.

And they never gave him a cut of the revenue. Just paid him a salary, like a session musician. They did the same thing with Ronnie Wood until after Bill Wyman left. By that time Wood had been in the Stones for 17 years.


Taylor allegedly cowrote "Sway", "Moonlight Mile" and "Time Waits for No One" (this one from the "It's Only Rock n Roll" album) but was never credited as a writer (all songs were credited to Jagger/Richards) and as a result never received royalties for those songs. That was the main reason he left the Stones in 1974. The only song he was credited as a co-writer was the worthy "Ventilator Blues" from the Exile album.
   345. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2813276)
Here are my "greatest/favorite instrument" guys, although I'd shudder to see them all in a band together. Talk about a bad combo...

- Male Vocals: Peter Gabriel (more subjective than any other choice...I've just always been fascinated by his voice, both the early screeching and the later hoarseness)
- Female Vocals: Sandy Denny (none better. ever.)
- Lead guitar: Robert Fripp
- Rhythm Guitar: Pete Townshend (honorable mention: Peter Buck)
- Bass: John Entwistle
- Drums: Phil Collins (anyone who laughs at this has never heard him drum, period)- Keyboards: Elton John (honorable mention: Nicky Hopkins)
- Production/Sound effects weirdness: Brian Eno


- recording engineer/ asst. producer: eddie kramer
   346. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2813277)
I'll always have a soft spot for prog rock. I think people who've played drums are more prone to that than the general public.

I love prog rock, particularly a lot of modern stuff that could be classified so. Porcupine Tree is my favorite band, and I'm also a fan of Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Tool, Ayreon, Transatlantic, Opeth, Spock's Beard, Evergrey, etc...
   347. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2813284)
i wonder if spock's beard ever covered the phish song, spock's brain ...
   348. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2813286)
I've never gotten into Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater or Opeth, but I have generally liked what I've heard of them. I've been sucked in more by indie rock bands seemingly borrow some elements from prog rock, like Built to Spill or Mars Volta, or to an extent the Decemberists.
   349. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:53 PM (#2813287)
The greatest rock n roll album of all time?

Tonight's The Night, Neil Young. It's all there, raw emotion, variety, fantastic songwriting played with the halfaway to the grave passion of boozed-up madmen raging into the darkness.
   350. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2813291)
or to an extent the Decemberists.


You'll Not Feel the Drowning (off The Crane Wife) in particular recalls Thick As A Brick era Jethro Tull
   351. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:06 PM (#2813295)
EDIT: Wrong place!
   352. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:22 PM (#2813307)
Mick Taylor has my favorite tone of any guitarist except for maybe Hendrix's later sound on the Band of Gypsys albums.


long live the univibe! Even when it wasn't being actively used, it was still part of the effects string and produced a noticeable difference in hendrix's basic tone. When active it was used to great effect in several very different ways, the piercing sustained note that hendrix holds at the beginning of his solo in Machine Gun and the dopplered, organ like tones that he would use in the opening solo to Hey Baby (Land of the New Rising Sun).
   353. Clemenza Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:23 PM (#2813309)
Favorite albums by decade:

60's - Revolver - The Beatles
70's - Zeppelin IV - Led Zeppelin
80's - Tim - The Replacements
90's - Copper Blue - Sugar
00's - In Rainbows - Radiohead
   354. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:39 PM (#2813321)
Tonight's The Night, Neil Young. It's all there, raw emotion, variety, fantastic songwriting played with the halfaway to the grave passion of boozed-up madmen raging into the darkness.
Feh, it's overrated. Tonight's The Night only developed the ridiculous reputation it has because the vastly superior (and equally dark, but ultimately more cathartic) On The Beach was unavailable on CD for so long. In fact, the similarly great Time Fades Away is STILL unavailable, which is a shame because the three albums form a trilogy (TFA -> TTN -> OTB) that have to be heard in that order to really understand what Neil's on about.

All three are great albums, though. "Borrowed Tune" and "Tired Eyes" are the standouts from Tonight's The Night in my opinion, but neither comes close to the nihilistic fury of "Last Dance" (from TFA) or the resignation of "Ambulance Blues" (from OTB).
   355. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2813323)
Tim - The Replacements
Not my favorite '80s album, and not my favorite 'Mats album, but man..."Bastards Of Young," that's got to be their best song.
   356. Lassus Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2813325)
My favorite album ever is Tool's Lateralus. I doubt I'll get much agreement on that one here

I'll vote yes, there, even if it isn't my favorite TOOL album, I still can't stand BEST ALBUM EVER conversations about the same 10 most-overplayed classic rock albums of all time. If I never hear another ####### Led Zeppelin or Rolling Stones song as long as I live I'll be no worse off.

And I'm with Szym as far as Davies being on top of the heap. I rate the Kinks over the Stones every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Replacments, Husker Du, and Prince (with a nod to Trip Shakespeare) made Minneapolis the rock capital of America in the 80's.
   357. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:46 PM (#2813331)
All three are great albums, though. "Borrowed Tune" and "Tired Eyes" are the standouts from Tonight's The Night in my opinion, but neither comes close to the nihilistic fury of "Last Dance" (from TFA) or the resignation of "Ambulance Blues" (from OTB).


I love "Albuquerque". Now that's resignation, sung slowly over Ben Keith's pedal steel guitar:

So I'll stop when I can, find some fried eggs and country ham
I'll find somewhere where they don't care who I am
Oh, Albuquerque
Albuquerque

Yes, they're a trio that has be heard in sequence. I love all three albums, but as far as quality I'd rate them TTN, OTB, TFA. In fact, TTN is my favorite Neil Young album. I can't agree with Neil that TFA is not worth releasing on CD. I guess he has some horrendous memories of that time period that have colored his reaction to that record. It really should be available. Favorite songs from each would be "Don't Be Denied", "Motion Pictures", and "Albuquerque".
   358. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:48 PM (#2813334)
i don't know if you could call it underrated, or unknown, since it did show up on Decade, but For the Turnstiles has always been one of my favorite Neil Young songs
   359. Repoz Posted: June 09, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2813337)
I used to see them at the Peanut Gallery in Haledon and a guy who left their band to become an accountant used to come to the bar where I worked "The Golden Steer" and drown his sorrows every Friday night, wishing he never left.

Mike...That wouldn't be Vinny DeNunzio's brother Keith?

He left the Feelies when they were just getting the Christgau push. He was a pretty good friend of mine during the early days at Maxwell's...he was always pissin' & moain' about the band's direction and such.

BTW...Bill Million has come up from Florida to reform the band w/ Glenn Mercer. They are playing Maxwell's in July (sold out) and opening for Sonic Youth on the 4th July in Battery Park.

Bill Million jazz...
   360. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:09 PM (#2813344)
Eso, I know your Pavement bona fides are unimpeachable, so I'll let your dismissal of TTN slide. I also love TFA & OTB (Revolution Blues has a real claim to his best song ever - but my fave is probably Albuquerque - nice one, vortex!) but as OTB being his best ever - it just doesn't rock out enough. It's a top-5 Neil record for sure, usually vying with Everybody Knows with me for number 2. Of course, one of Reactor or Hawks & Doves usually makes my top 10, and those ain't for a lot of people.
   361. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:14 PM (#2813349)
This story may be surprising, but just imagine if the situation were reversed. "Monte Irvin donates 200 reels of prog-rock DAT tape to the Experience Music Project" would have been a lot more surprising.
   362. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2813353)
Replacments, Husker Du, and Prince (with a nod to Trip Shakespeare) made Minneapolis the rock capital of America in the 80's.


I've always thought that if there was one time and place in America I could have grown up, it would be the Twin Cities in the early 1980s.
   363. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:26 PM (#2813359)
I've always thought that if there was one time and place in America I could have grown up, it would be the Twin Cities in the early 1980s.


Don't forget early Soul Asylum and the Suburbs - Love Is the Law is a great album, and the title song was the music for Darlene's Senior Prom on Roseanne...
   364. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:27 PM (#2813360)
Walewander
Eso, I know your Pavement bona fides are unimpeachable, so I'll let your dismissal of TTN slide. I also love TFA & OTB (Revolution Blues has a real claim to his best song ever - but my fave is probably Albuquerque - nice one, vortex!) but as OTB being his best ever - it just doesn't rock out enough. It's a top-5 Neil record for sure, usually vying with Everybody Knows with me for number 2. Of course, one of Reactor or Hawks & Doves usually makes my top 10, and those ain't for a lot of people.
Yeah, it's probably a bit knee-jerk on my part to dismiss TTN, it's just a reaction to the way it seems to be unfairly elevated above all his other albums, something I think that was due to unavailability of OTB for so long. (And the continuing unavailability of TFA...what I wouldn't give for a nice sounding digital copy of that album. Anyone on BBTF have one they want to post on MegaUpload for me?) My top five are probably, in order:

1.) On The Beach
2.) After The Gold Rush
3.) Time Fades Away
4.) Zuma
5.) TIE: Tonight's The Night & Rust Never Sleeps

Count me as one who admires Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere but finds the long jams to just drag on too damn long.
   365. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:28 PM (#2813361)
Husker Du's Zen Arcade is one of the defining albums of the 1980s. Can't quite tell which double-LP mega-epic is better, that one or Double Nickels On The Dime. They make a great pairing either way.
   366. Count Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:30 PM (#2813362)
As a big Neil Young fan, I prefer On The Beach as well. I actually don't have Time Fades Away (by far my biggest Neil Young gap- I have almost everything else except the shitty 80's albums). On The Beach is probably my favorite Neil Young album, followed by Tonight's The Night, Zuma, Rust Never Sleeps, etc. He had a ton of great 70's albums, then a couple more in the early 90's (Ragged Glory, Freedom) and a host of good but lesser albums with some great parts.

On his last (/current? I think he's still playing in Europe) tour, he played Ambulance Blues at pretty much every concert. I saw him in Boston, he was fantastic.
   367. Count Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:34 PM (#2813367)
I almost never listen to Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere anymore just because Live At The Fillmore East has most of the same songs (with the notable exception of Cinnamon Girl).
   368. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:36 PM (#2813370)
And the continuing unavailability of TFA...what I wouldn't give for a nice sounding digital copy of that album. Anyone on BBTF have one they want to post on MegaUpload for me?


I have a mint copy of the LP that's literally only been played once (I bought it and taped it to replace my original copy). When I get the technology to make digital copies of my LPs, that'll be the first one I do, along with The Swimming Pool Q's.

I have two or three versions of other people's rips of TFA that I've downloaded, but they're not pristine. I'd be happy to let you have one of those, if you want.
   369. Count Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:40 PM (#2813373)
I'm downloading TFA as we speak. I'm surprised I've never even heard most of the songs on the album. (I'm only familiar with Journey Through The Past and Love In Mind).
   370. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#2813375)
if you can bittorrent, there's a copy of Time Fades Away up on mininova right now in FLAC that looks to have been ripped (fairly carefully) from the LP
   371. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:45 PM (#2813380)
Sadly, I don't think I can bittorrent from my crappy "broadband" here. Especially FLAC files, which are huge. That's why I was hoping someone could post it to megaupload or something. Oh well, maybe I'll go down to school or something and take advantage of their immensely powerful connection, at the risk of getting in trouble with the administration.
   372. Depressoteric Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:46 PM (#2813381)
I have two or three versions of other people's rips of TFA that I've downloaded, but they're not pristine. I'd be happy to let you have one of those, if you want.
If you could post them somewhere I would be grateful. My copy is a crappy one assembled from various mp3s, complete with crackles and pops and the like.
   373. Answer Guy Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:48 PM (#2813384)
I can't believe that an officially released album by an artist with the stature of Neil Young is after all these years still unavailable on CD.
   374. Count Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2813385)
Does anyone know if Time Fades Away will be released with the Archives? (assuming the archives ever come)
   375. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:56 PM (#2813389)
Does anyone know if Time Fades Away will be released with the Archives?


Young really dislikes the record, primarily because that tour has unpleasant memories for him; that's why it wasn't released when On the Beach, American Stars and Bars, et. al. came out on CD. He's very adamant that he doesn't want to release it, so I'd doubt it. Knowing Neil, though, he may release other versions of some of those songs on the Archives set.
   376. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2008 at 11:57 PM (#2813391)
If you could post them somewhere I would be grateful. My copy is a crappy one assembled from various mp3s, complete with crackles and pops and the like.


Will do - as I said, they're not pristine, but I'd be happy to share them. I'll send you an e-mail when I get them up.
   377. PerroX Posted: June 10, 2008 at 05:56 AM (#2813561)
Music is an extremely personal experience for me, kind of like sex -- any attempt to put some kind of objective, intellectual spin on the best music is masturbation compared to the real thing -- how the music feels down in your gut, how it makes your heart ache, how it makes your soul full of joy.

I'll only play music for real friends -- is there anything more painful than playing a song you love and it meeting indifference from others?

If you tell me TNT is one of your favorites, I've got to believe you've been to some of the dark places that album goes. Albuquerque -- who else could turn that word into a chorus except Neil?

It's true that OTB takes TNT one step further, but it's too much for me -- like Alex Chilton on Sister Lovers after Radio City. My favorite Big Star song has to be 'The Ballad of El Goodo, though I love them all.

OK Computer still delivers a punch long after its release and repeated listenings.

Summerteeth.

Lucinda Williams kills me.

Gram Parsons' A Song for You and $1000 Wedding.

There have been some real diamond posts scattered throughout this thread that make me want to go back and listen to some things I've overlooked.

Thanks for sharing.
   378. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: June 10, 2008 at 07:51 AM (#2813575)
By Decade off the top of my head

60's - Pet Sounds / VU and Nico
70's - Modern Lovers (Self Titled)/Wire - Pink Flag/ Television - Marquee Moon / Exile on Main Street / All Mod Cons / Big Star Debut album
80's - Daydream Nation / Double Nickels on the Dime / New day Rising
90's - Slanted & Enchanted / Ladies and Gents we are Floating / OK Computer / In the aeroplane over the sea
2000's - Stage names - Okkervil River/ Arcade Fire - Funeral / Spoon - Girls can tell/ Wrens - Meadowlands

No way I can choose one and those were just of the top of my head!!
   379. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: June 10, 2008 at 07:54 AM (#2813576)
The best Kinks song ever, both in terms of melody and heartbreaking lyrical observation, is "Do You Remember, Walter?" And their best album is clearly The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society.

Discuss.


Agree with album - Song for me is Victoria for obvious reasons ( daughters name and all!)
   380. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:10 AM (#2813580)
There have been some real diamond posts scattered throughout this thread that make me want to go back and listen to some things I've overlooked.


damn straight! i haven't liked everything i've pulled because of the recommendations in this thread, but i've discovered music i wouldn't have because of it and that's the most important thing! thanks to everyone who's chimed in.

here's another topic, just to stimulate some conversation and (hopefully) provide me with some concerts to find recordings of ... chose one show, from each decade from the 60's until the 00's that you would choose above all others to witness!

mine:

60's: 2-24-1969: Jimi Hendrix Experience - Royal Albert Hall ...jesus what a show, hendrix in europe was always a treat, what with the effects of the high voltage on the tone, but there are some legendary performances in this show ... a stellar Hear My Train a Coming, a gorgeous Little Wing, the best Stone Free, the best Bleeding Heart and my favorite Red House (you could argue that the Red House from San Diego 1969 was better, but you'd be wrong), "Electric Gypsy was Blase" about this show, but Shapiro was wrong; it's the best of the Europe '69 tour and on the short-hand of best Hendrix shows ever.

70's: 1-1-1970: The Band of Gypsys - Fillmore East ... ummm, well, there's Machine Gun, what else do you need? Seriously, if I need to choose one song to pick as proof of the capacity of human creativity and production to save us from Alien Destruction, this is it ...

80's: 6-17-1985 Stevie Ray Vaughn - Red Rocks ... you want to hear the sound of one man's soul ripping out of his body? you know about the sound of ultimate suffering? listen to little wing from this show and you'll understand that stevie was channeling the "man in black" on Count Ruegen's Wheel of Pain; scarifying stuff.

90's: 7-2-1997 Phish - Paradiso ... jesus what a show ... 2nd time in europe, 2nd time in amsterdam, my favorite live band at the absolute epic peak of their talent ... and what a show! played in a historic, breath-takingly beautiful amsterdam church, chris kuroda wired the lights to shine through the antique stained glass windows ... i can't fathom the effect ... DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE?!?!?!?! YOU'RE ON THE BACK OF THE WORM!!!

00's: 2-28-2004 Phish - Nassau Coliseum ... the best show since they came back, everything was clicking, they'd played on the tour long enough to get tight, they were all still psyched to be back ... as a result you've got an absolutely stellar show, everything is above average ... double break-outs, first Soul Shakedown Party in 266 shows and 1st Destiny Unbound (the Holy Grail of unplayed Phish songs) in 788 shows and jaw-dropping versions of Back on the Train and Tweezer ... knowing what i know and how much i've heard in my life and what i've put into this band, this is the show that pinky fingers and toes were made extraneous to be sacrificed for
   381. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:17 AM (#2813581)
oh, yes ... in the battle of prog rock that i've downloaded because of this thread, it's King Crimson 1, Genesis 0 ... Camel has yet to be listened to
   382. Depressoteric Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:39 AM (#2813583)
2-13-1970 Fillmore East: The Grateful Dead perform the finest version of "Dark Star" ever.

7-1-1974 Central Park: the final performance of the Cross/Wetton/Bruford/Fripp lineup of King Crimson.
   383. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:48 AM (#2813584)
[387] yes! more King Crimson, especially stuff from 1974+ stuff! Asbury Park from the USA album is just about perfect! EXCELLENT!
   384. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:50 AM (#2813585)
not to be pushy! i'll also say, that as several people have said, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" is one of the best Stone's tracks ever ... let alone, the best Stones tracks "you've never heard of"!
   385. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: June 10, 2008 at 09:52 AM (#2813586)
Years ago, my heart was set to live, oh
And I've been trying hard against unbelievable odds
It gets so hard in times like now to hold on
But guns they wait to be stuck by, and at my side is God
And there ain't no one goin' to turn me 'round
Ain't no one goin' to turn me 'round


Some of my favourite ever lyrics come from Big Star as well
   386. Depressoteric Posted: June 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM (#2813593)
Asbury Park from the USA album is just about perfect! EXCELLENT!
The live performance of "Exiles" from the U.S.A. is quite possibly the finest moment of any incarnation of King Crimson. I have collected somewhere around 60 different performances of that song from 1972-1974, and they never did it better than right there, with the possible exception of the very different 11/23/73 performance found on The Night Watch. I also think that U.S.A. features near-peak versions of "Lament" and "Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Part Two." Just about the only thing it's missing is a good version of "Larks' Tongues Part One" and an unedited version of "Easy Money."

If you like U.S.A, it's worth heading over to www.dgmlive.com and downloading the full version of the concert (with the unedited versions of "Easy Money" and "Asbury Park," both of which are nearly doubled in length) for a a few bucks. Robert Fripp does a great job of both making sure that KC's archival live music gets out to the band's rabid fanbase, and making sure that the musicians in the various incarnations of the band receive a fair cut of the money that comes in, even today.
   387. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM (#2813619)
I rate the Kinks over the Stones every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Not only those times, but all day and all of the night too.
   388. JC in DC Posted: June 10, 2008 at 12:56 PM (#2813640)
I rate the Kinks over the Stones every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Not only those times, but all day and all of the night too.


I love the Kinks, and I love Ray Davies, but I cannot agree.
   389. Depressoteric Posted: June 10, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#2813668)
I generally prefer The Kinks at afternoon tea, but every now and then I'll put them on during a sunny afternoon, listen to them till the end of the day, and love them till the sun shines.
   390. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 10, 2008 at 01:53 PM (#2813685)
sunny afternoon

Sunny Afternoon is a good example of why I think Ray Davies is so awesome.

Look at Taxman. Taxman's an awesome song. But Sunny Afternoon adds an extra bit of observation of life in addition to the obvious complaint about taxes. The protagonist of Sunny Afternoon misses what he's lost, but he also values the simplicity of the things he can't lose, so that he always feels he has something.
   391. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 10, 2008 at 02:04 PM (#2813695)
I rate the Kinks over the Stones every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Not only those times, but all day and all of the night too.

I love the Kinks, and I love Ray Davies, but I cannot agree.


CONCUR. I've grown to love the best Kinks stuff more than the best Rolling Stones stuff, but quantity matters. The Rolling Stones, IMO, had a 10 year run of consistent output (1963-72) and then had a pretty good career tail into the early 80s.

I don't know how much of it was the Kinks' personal dysfunctionality, and how much was Shel Talmy's, but their early records are far more uneven than the Stones'. For both The Who and The Kinks, there were some wonderful Talmy-produced songs, but there are too many songs that sound crappy. While the Stones' moved on in '67 to self-production (miserable failure), they learned their lesson and hired Jimmy Miller, and the result was their peak output. The Kinks' wisely dumped Talmy but they really could have used a Jimmy Miller or a Tom Dowd or someone like that to help. Instead Ray Davies produced the records, and I think some of the flaws on their otherwise great records in the late 60s might not have been there if they had had a real professional producer working with them. Of course, as I mentioned before, they were apparently very difficult to work with.
   392. JC in DC Posted: June 10, 2008 at 02:12 PM (#2813700)
Extremely well put, Andere.

And earlier someone dissed "Sweet Virginia" off "Exile." I love that song.
   393. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 10, 2008 at 02:33 PM (#2813727)
I think peak's more important than career for a musician. Unlike a baseball player, you don't have to listen to the valleys to get the later peaks. The Kinks had quite a bit of success into the 80s as well and none of it was from mining past successes - it's hard to believe that You Really Got Me, Victoria, Lola, anything from Muswell Hillbillies, Destroyer, or Come Dancing are the same band.

Going too much career over peak and you hit a lot of guys like Mozart way down in the standings - Mozart wrote a ridiculous amount of generic 18th century noodling, the equivalent of My Humps.
   394. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 10, 2008 at 02:53 PM (#2813742)
I don't disagree about peak versus career, and while you probably disagree, I think the Stones' peak output is pretty outstanding. The way you see it, the Stones might be Drysdale, the Kinks are Koufax. To me, it's more like the Stones are Seaver, and the Kinks are Koufax.
   395. Lassus Posted: June 10, 2008 at 03:22 PM (#2813768)
Years ago, my heart was set to live, oh
And I've been trying hard against unbelievable odds
It gets so hard in times like now to hold on
But guns they wait to be stuck by, and at my side is God
And there ain't no one goin' to turn me 'round
Ain't no one goin' to turn me 'round

Some of my favourite ever lyrics come from Big Star as well


Phil - Have you heard the cover of this tune off of Trip Shakespeare's (yes, I know, I've pimped them twice now) VOLT EP? That's the only version of that song I've heard, but I've always really loved it, and it is what got me into my (albeit limited) exposure to BIG STAR in the first place.
   396. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#2813786)
Eso-

Mine would probably be:

1. TTN
2. On the Beach
3. Everybody Knows
4. Time Fades Away
5. Zuma/Hawks and Doves

I have a wonderful boot from the Tonight's The Night tour where Neil and the band come out, play the title track, and spend the rest of the show playing TTN songs (keep in mind this was right after Harvest). For the encore, he says "I'm gonna play something you've heard before" to wild applause - and then plays Tonight's The Night again.
   397. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 03:43 PM (#2813788)
Albuquerque -- who else could turn that word into a chorus except Neil?

For ages, my sister thought he was singing "I Love Turkey" there.
   398. Depressoteric Posted: June 10, 2008 at 04:02 PM (#2813798)
I have a wonderful boot from the Tonight's The Night tour where Neil and the band come out, play the title track, and spend the rest of the show playing TTN songs (keep in mind this was right after Harvest). For the encore, he says "I'm gonna play something you've heard before" to wild applause - and then plays Tonight's The Night again.
Yeah, I have a boot just like this as well. It's a mesmerizing bit of audience-confrontational art. During that tour he would play pretty much the entire Tonight's The Night album (which wouldn't even be released for two years!), and NOTHING from any of his earlier work except the occasional Buffalo Springfield song ("I Am A Child," "Flying On The Ground") and a guitar-heavy jam or two from Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere. No "Heart Of Gold," no "After The Gold Rush," no "Harvest," no "Old Man," just a bunch of dirges and some moody guitar jams.
   399. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: June 10, 2008 at 04:42 PM (#2813840)
And a stained linen suit and a dying palm tree.
   400. Clemenza Posted: June 10, 2008 at 06:13 PM (#2813938)
I've always thought that if there was one time and place in America I could have grown up, it would be the Twin Cities in the early 1980s.

I lived in St Paul and was born in 1974 so I was just on the tail end of it and my musical tastes had not caught up with what was going on. My brother, however, is 5 years older than me and we shared a room so when I wasn't listening to Van Halen or Motley Crue my brother would be playing The Mats, Husker Du and Soul Asylum. I didn't especially like it at the time but somehow it seeped into my brain because I love the Mats now as well as Husker Du and Bob Mould. I've told my brother many times that I wish I was able to go see those bands at 1st Ave and The 400 Bar like he did. He said as long as Westerberg could stand a Mats show was the best.

In 1984 The Mats released Let It Be, Husker Du released Zen Arcade and Prince released Purple Rain. Not a bad year for MN music.

Someone mentioned it ealier but The Suburbs are a grossly underrated band from the same scene. And if you went to college in the upper midwest between 1988 and 1995 you have to know the Gear Daddies as well.
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