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So he won the appeal.
"Source: Braun has indeed won appeal, will not be suspended. First reported by @haudricourt."
And this should completely clear his name. Because MLB has nothing to lose by having their MVP as a known cheat.
Way to go, MLB.
The stink doesn't go away that easily.
Why should we have had any faith in this process up to now?
Of course I don't have any more facts than the next guy, but a successful appeal could suggest evidence of a faithful process. This isn't proof that somebody was trying to rail Braun (though the leaking is a separate matter), but evidence that this 'test/result and/or process' didn't meet the standard of proof of a postive test.
I don't understand this comment.
I kind of agree with #12. I mean, if Braun actually did no wrong, then obviously this news is positive (unless you're like me and really hate Braun, but I digress), but the testing process looks a lot less credible now than it did a few hours ago.
Good point... I guess I was just naive. I've gone from 'cautiously optimistic that the process might work as expected' to 'MLB hasn't a f***ing clue what it's doing.'
I'm confused!
System in place.
System activated.
System deals with case as it was designed to.
End of story.
Das has served for a long time as the "permanent" arbitrator. Going back to Peter Seitz (the Messersmith / McNally decision) there has been a fairly rapid turnover with folks like Tom Roberts (Collusion I), George Nicolau (Collusion II), Dana Eischen (JD Drew vs. Phillies), Rich Bloch (cocaine cases), etc. getting bounced the first time they issue a ruling one side strongly opposes. It seems to me that Das stayed for a long time partially because he usually presided over cases that ended up settling.
Yes. The arbitrator serves at the consent of both sides and can be fired unilaterally. But going back to the Seitz decision in the Messersmith case, a court has held that that can not be done in the midst of a case that one side sees going poorly.
Any drug testing system will have false positives. Having a proper process in place to overturn false positives adds credibility to a system, rather than detract from it.
That depends on what this "technicality" entails, whether it is a systematic error, and if it can be fixed or addressed.
Of course it all depends on the specifics.
I don't see how we can make any judgment one way or the other without knowing the details.
"Braun will now not miss 24 home games at the beginning of the season. Worth at least $700k to Brewers in ticket sales."
His basis is a number he made up:
"Based on my Braun #'s on average of $26 ticket. 24 games. Think Braun is worth a little more than 1,100 fans a game."
Considering the process isn't even supposed to reveal that a positive test and an appeal took place, I'm pretty confident they aren't going to spill the details.
If MLB isn't happy with the arbitrator, I wouldn't be surprised if they leak the details to the press to undermine his credibility.
Yeah I'd say the thing that damages the credibility of the system is the leak, not the fact that the appeal was successful.
Not that we know the details for the vast majority of PED decisions.
But how on earth does this mean that the testing system is a lot less credible now? If (as has been stated) this is the first overturn, then I'd say it's doing a pretty good job.
Of course, you can argue about whether MLB cares about due diligence on every case...
Isn't it likely that MLB leaked the information to begin with? It doesn't make sense that Braun's party would leak and I'm not sure who else would know about the results.
Heh, yeah that too.
This person has not read his Bill James.
Because it's possible that there's a systematic error in the testing procedure which hasn't been caught until now.
Das's credentials: http://www.nmb.gov/arbitrator-resumes/das-shyam_res.pdf
Dude, just pick a conspiracy and stick with it.
""I'll let my buddy take it from here. All u idiots talking about technicality open up for some crow too. See if Espn gets pressured not to let the people hear the truth. Should get interesting. #exonerated #shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
proper locale in a timely manner; that is was held-up in transit for 48 hours or so, that it in some way didn't
get to the people and place it ought to gotten to on time...or that is was was "unsecured" for 48 hours.
Did not hear any details on this supposed delay.
edit: content
Which would make them look pretty stupid, considering that they agreed to hire him in the first place.
From Karl Ravech: "Appears Braun's team won because a courier didn't take positive test to Fed Ex building thought it was closed Saturday night."
proper locale in a timely manner; that is was held-up in transit for 48 hours or so, that it in some way didn't
get to the people and place it ought to gotten to on time...or that is was was "unsecured" for 48 hours.
That's interesting. If true (a big if...), then we still don't have any insight as to whether Braun took something he wasn't supposed to. And yet the rumors swirling around were that Braun had taken some medication/pills to deal with some private health issue.
Good that Braun got off because MLB didn't follow the rules. Bad that they didn't really deal with the meat of the issue.
Assuming all of this is true, of course...
(Edited for clarity)
proper locale in a timely manner; that is was held-up in transit for 48 hours or so, that it in some way didn't
get to the people and place it ought to gotten to on time...or that is was was "unsecured" for 48 hours.
Putting aside the technicality (that it wasn't timely delivered), are we to insinuate that the positive test was because the sample somehow "spoiled" due to the delay or because it may have been tampered with?
Wouldn't be the first time an employer hired someone that they later regretted.
"It has always been Major League Baseball's position that no matter who tests positive, we will exhaust all avenues in pursuit of the appropriate discipline. We have been true to that position in every instance, because baseball fans deserve nothing less," Manfred said. "As a part of our drug testing program, the commissioner's office and the players' association agreed to a neutral third party review for instances that are under dispute. While we have always respected that process, Major League Baseball vehemently disagrees with the decision rendered today by arbitrator Shyam Das."
Of course, that doesn't mean they may not get another arbitrator in the future...
That FedEx employee needs to be fully disposed. But to be serious, I highly doubt the employee knows the content of the package.
The article says chain of custody of Braun's sample was broken. So, ruling had nothing to do with whatever Braun's technical argument was.
Cokes to all.
An MLB rep and a player's association rep. One of the articles I saw named the other 2 but I don't remember which article it was. Apparently most decisions end up 2-1 with the MLB rep taking management's side and the PA rep taking the player's.
edit: ah, from the ESPN article:
I don't know, I assume it was Hayman or Rosenthal who broke the Tim Fedorowicz for Bedard trade rumors.
(No one is going to get that)
The dude kept it in his fridge. There's chain of custody issues here.
Not too mention some hygiene issues.
Ah yes, the courier was a MLB employer. When I heard the word courier, I associated it with Fed Ex. So instead of the sample sitting with Fed Ex for the weekend, it sat in some MLB fridge instead, leaving it exposed for possible contamination.
New here? This is BBTF!
Roy, can you get sick drinking piss?
Even if its your own?
The stink doesn't go away that easily.
I'm genuinely curious about this; for those of you that think PED use should be an automatic disqualifyer for the HOF, would you still withhold your hypothetical vote for Braun (assuming he goes on to produce a HOF caliber career)?
The actual BBWAA has shown that they don't care about evidence and that physical appearance and speculation are valid enough reasons to snub someone (Bagwell, probably Piazza and definitely Sosa next year), but everyone here on BBTF has a higher standard than that, right?
Someone haul in Moises Alou for questioning.
no, not by a long shot!
Ask this guy.
Depends on what happened in courier's house that weekend. ESPN said the courier kept the sample at his or her home and in a "cool" place. I suppose if the courier had a party over the weekend, some drunk dude could have contaminated the vial somehow.
But that's sort of the point: If MLB wants to show that Braun is guilty of PED use, it is their burden to show that they followed the proper procedures in conducting the test. If they didn't demonstrate a proper chain of custody, they can't prove that what was delivered to the testing lab was not what came out of Braun's body. Period, end of story.
That's not how it works. The chain of custody issues mean the sample is compromised.
Similarly, if this really boils down to "the guy delivered it on Monday instead of Saturday", I could imagine simultaneously thinking (A) it's good that a high standard is being applied in a court-like context, and (B) Braun almost certainly did it anyway. I don't think that those would be unreasonable opinions to hold simultaneously, and if someone is of the opinion that PED use is a HOF disqualification, then I wouldn't find it unreasonable for that person to additionally think that it's good that he wasn't suspended, but that he shouldn't go in the Hall.
I don't disagree with that legally. But I would like to know what happened at the courier's house over the weekend. If nobody came over (and he lives by him or herself), I don't see how the vial could have been contaminated unless placing it in the fridge again itself contaminates it.
Based on the information that has been released so far, I don't know how this can be said with confidence. We don't have any details, or do we know why the specific rules that were broken were in place. Certain tests can be time-sensitive, or temperature sensitive, or whatever. These laboratory COC rules exist in part because if the samples aren't handled correctly, the result can be skewed. It's not exactly like courtroom COC, where you mainly trying to prove that no one swapped out the weapons or whatever.
I work with large databases of lab results all the time, and if I had a "crazy, outlier, off-the-charts result," and then I found out there were COC issues with that sample, I'd posit that the two were related and likely throw that data point out.
I don't think we have enough information to say. We don't know what happened at the courier's house that weekend.
We must find the courier. All answers rest with him.
No. He took his case to arbitration, and he won. If we're not going to honor the outcome, I fail to see the point in allowing an appeal in the first place.
The actual BBWAA has shown that they don't care about evidence and that physical appearance and speculation are valid enough reasons to snub someone (Bagwell, probably Piazza and definitely Sosa next year), but everyone here on BBTF has a higher standard than that, right?
Some of us do, anyway. I wouldn't withhold my vote for any of those other players, either.
I'm saying it was a guy, and I'm saying he's not married. No woman I know is going to peacefully allow somebody else's urine sample in their refrigerator, no matter how well it is secured. Not gonna happen.
Okay, so, we are already on our way to finding out who the courier is. We know he's not married- or at least does not live with his wife. We can assume the Courier lives in the Milwaukee area or one of the places that the Brewers were in late September and early October.
That narrows it down to tens or hundreds of thousands instead of millions.
If the courier lives in a cold area, a "cool" place could mean the garage or underneath the porch.
On a positive note, this has turned into a great advertisement for FedEx. I had no idea they are open Saturday nights! FedEx - the Official urine courier of Major League Baseball.
I think it's generally been true that as long as you're willing to take it direct to the airport (and you're near a major airport), you can drop off something just about anytime. I don't remember what I was shipping but I do recall going to the UPS depot at O'Hare late at night to ship something and that would have been in the early-mid 80s.
On Braun -- what a nest of rumors. We've got "guy kept it in a fridge all weekend" (which may turn out to be true). We had "he's taking something for an STD, he's only guilty in a technical sense" (MLB seems fine with that application of "technical" yet is upset about this application of "technical"). Which might also well be true. And very early we had an anonymous source saying the T/E ratio in Braun's sample was so absurdly high that something had to have gone wrong with the testing -- which, if true, would be consistent with the idea that something went awry with the sample between urinal and lab.
Anyway, good for Braun and I hope this doesn't taint the public's perception of him.
Absolutely not. 94/Jolly nails it: there's a process, it was followed, and Braun was exonerated. All's clear, and here's hoping he continues on his HOF path.
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