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Wednesday, December 09, 2009

Sandler: Will Gaston be a Hall of Fame candidate as a manager?

Dunno…I mean, Tex Rubinowitz isn’t in the dopey Rock and Roll HOF yet. So you just never know.

Gaston won two World Series and made the playoffs four times in his first 12 years. The 65-year-old currently sits 70th with 809 wins and will likely finish the 2010 season between 65th and 67th among the nearly 700 men to have managed in the big leagues. He is also trailblazer of sorts as the first, and only, African-American manager to win a World Series.

In terms of winning percentage, Herzog’s .532 mark is better than Gaston’s .516, but it is not as though that has been the measure of managers over the years. Connie Mack, the all-time wins leader among managers, was a sub-.500 manager and Casey Stengel, The Old Perfessor, barely won more games than he lost. Wilbert Robinson managed the Brooklyn Robins to two pennants and no titles in 18 years, finished with a record of 1,399-1,398 and gained election by the Veterans Committee in 1945.

Veterans Committee voting is historically an esoteric exercise and figuring which way the winds will blow for a particular candidate is nearly impossible.

However, based on some of the other managers already honoured at Cooperstown, Gaston’s credentials merit debate.

Repoz Posted: December 09, 2009 at 09:47 PM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: blue jays, hall of fame, history

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1. John Northey Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:01 PM (#3408426)

Get the Jays into the playoffs in 2010 and he would earn it, but otherwise even though I'm a Jays fan I have to say 'no'. Was a bit surprised how few wins Herzog had though (1218) as I always figured he'd lasted longer than he did. The single WS win and 6 playoff appearances was lower than I expected too.

2. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3408434)

Will Gaston be a Hall of Fame candidate as a manager? Gaston won two World Series...

I think Joe Carter's reception on the ballot gives us a hint.

The 65-year-old... will likely finish the 2010 season between 65th and 67th among the nearly 700 men to have managed in the big leagues.

I think the list of all 17 managers in the Hall of Fame gives us a hint.

3. RJ in TO Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:13 PM (#3408437)

Will Gaston be a Hall of Fame candidate as a manager?

No.

He might have been able to build a case if he coached somewhere in the decade between Toronto stints, but he just doesn't have the totals to merit serious consideration, and I say this as a huge Cito fan.

4. John Northey Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:16 PM (#3408440)

Yeah, if Cito wanted to make it he'd have been helped by spending 10 years on last place teams. Dumb as that is, it is true. 10 years @ 70 wins a year = 700 wins puts him over 1500 and into the discussion. Dumb how it works, but there you go.

5. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:38 PM (#3408467)

Ten eligible managers won two World Series, and six are in the Hall of Fame. The four who aren't are Bill Carrigan, Danny Murtaugh, Ralph Houk, and Tom Kelly – Gaston is somewhat similar to Carrigan and Houk in that he caught on with an outstanding team at the start of his managerial career, so his own contributions to the two rings are somewhat underemphasized when they're noticed at all, because he was never able to replicate the success. (Carrigan, IIRC, walked away from baseball to work in other businesses before coming back years later and managing a very weak Boston team.)

Murtaugh got some votes this year, though, and Kelly will eventually be inducted down the line, I think. Both earned the reputation of molding their teams over long periods of time.

6. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: December 09, 2009 at 10:42 PM (#3408471)

A 70 manager HOF would mean that there should be 1500 players enshrined at Cooperstown.

7. Paul D(uda) Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:06 PM (#3408515)

A 70 manager HOF would mean that there should be 1500 players enshrined at Cooperstown.

I still wouldn't vote for Jim Rice.

8. DetroitMichael Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:16 PM (#3408537)

Isn't the key distinction between Gaston and recent inductees Herzog and Dick Williams is that the latter two won pennants with multiple teams, perhaps indicating more skill by the managers involved? If you're going to base your HOF credentials on essentially one team, then one needs more than two World Series titles (see Ralph Houk).

9. RJ in TO Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:21 PM (#3408547)

If you're going to base your HOF credentials on essentially one team, then one needs more than two World Series titles (see Ralph Houk).

I don't think one necessarily needs more than two World Series under those conditions, but one probably needs at least two distinct periods of success. In Cito's case, it was basically all downhill after the two WS years, which gives a great opening for the "Sure, he could win with a loaded team, but..." crowd.

10. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:32 PM (#3408572)

The single WS win and 6 playoff appearances was lower than I expected too.

Six playoff appearances seems like a bunch to me for the pre-Wild Card era. Sparky Anderson and Lasorda each had seven. Earl Weaver had six, same as Herzog.

11. tribefan Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:39 PM (#3408578)

Tex Rubinowitz isn’t in the dopey Rock and Roll HOF yet

I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

12. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 09, 2009 at 11:56 PM (#3408611)

Tex Rubinowitz isn’t in the dopey Rock and Roll HOF yet

At least I know what "baseball" is supposed to mean.
When somebody tells me what the #### "rock and roll" is supposed to mean -- a definition which must necessarily include everyone currently in the RnR HOF -- I'll start paying attention to their stupid, stupid, stupid "Hall of Fame."

13. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: December 10, 2009 at 12:22 AM (#3408637)

He'll be a candidate, just like Tom Kelly. And he'll be as successful as Tom Kelly.

14. A Random 8-Year-Old Eskimo Posted: December 10, 2009 at 04:17 AM (#3408752)

Get the Jays into the playoffs in 2010 and he would earn it

If he achieves this then they should waive the waiting period.

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Wednesday, December 09, 2009

Sandler: Will Gaston be a Hall of Fame candidate as a manager?

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