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Monday, December 25, 2006

SB Sun: Oberjuerge: Eight get Hall votes

With the ballots as messed up as a Bric De Luv Remix von O.L.A.F. Opal offering (thanks AP McGwire poll!)...here’s the latest leader board.

47-Gywnn
47-Ripken
31-McGwire (77 NAY votes)
22-Gossage
21-Rice
16-Dawson
12-J.Morris
11-Blyleven

 

Repoz Posted: December 25, 2006 at 04:02 PM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Juan V Posted: December 25, 2006 at 04:32 PM (#2268426)
Always a sad sight: Guys who get on the HOF ballot because they crossed the threshold of 10 years in the game - but don't belong in this crowd. To wit: Scott Brosius, Bobby Witt, Devon White, Tony Fernandez.


One of these things... is not like the others.
   2. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: December 25, 2006 at 04:38 PM (#2268430)
I've come around to the guys like Brosius being the ballot (admittedly in no small part because he's my favorite player of all-time). It's silly, but a nice mini honor and certainly does no harm. I think people doth protest too much when it comes to this sort of hting
   3. Rich Rifkin I Posted: December 25, 2006 at 05:04 PM (#2268441)
One of these things... is not like the others.

Obviously, Tony Fernandez is the class of this group. He doesn't belong in the HOF, but he was a very good player. However, he is not the only one who is "not like the others." Devon White was heads and tails better, IMO, than Scott Brosius or Bobby Witt.
   4. Walt Davis Posted: December 25, 2006 at 07:08 PM (#2268476)
I'm starting to think those poll results may not have been very predictive. It's hard for me to see McGwire hanging even that close to Ripken & Gwynn and ahead of those other candidates among published articles while getting massacred among the unpublished.

Or am I misunderstanding where those 77 nay votes are coming from -- I assume those are from the poll, not from published articles saying they'll vote no on McGwire without telling us who they are going to vote for.

Since I don't remember any writer admitting they didn't vote for Ripken/Gwynn, I'm assuming we have 47 complete "ballots" (i.e. what the writer was willing to admit in public) and McGwire is on 31 of them, or nearly 65%. If anything, I'd have thought the "public" ballots would go against McGwire more than the "private" ones but there's probably a big age bias in public vs. private and maybe the older writers are way more pissed off than the younger ones.

Anyway, that poll put McGwire at something like 25% -- he's gonna have to get creamed in the late returns for that to happen. (note, only about 10% of precincts reporting so far)
   5. Repoz Posted: December 25, 2006 at 10:57 PM (#2268579)
Or am I misunderstanding where those 77 nay votes are coming from -- I assume those are from the poll, not from published articles saying they'll vote no on McGwire without telling us who they are going to vote for.

Walt...I have a listing of over 40 voters that have scurvied up the total by writing articles on why they didn't vote for Mac...without mentioning the rest of their ballot.

ala Scott Miller today...

and then there are a number of partial ballots that go against McGwire and mention only Ripgwyn...because THAT'S how ballplayers should act!

It's a mess!
   6. Buzzards Bay Posted: December 26, 2006 at 12:25 AM (#2268617)
"Jim Rice (a jerk,"
this type of stuff is now being written on auto-pilot
Rice isn't in my HOF but this is crazy
Rice wasn't good copy..let it go
He was a good teammate and there is nothing in the record that says otherwise
   7. scareduck Posted: December 26, 2006 at 04:27 AM (#2268740)
Rich Lederer will go ballistic about the Blyleven-was-only-in-two-All-Star-games crack.
   8. Rich Lederer Posted: December 26, 2006 at 05:20 AM (#2268760)
Rich Lederer will go ballistic about the Blyleven-was-only-in-two-All-Star-games crack.

I sent Oberjuerge an email this morning, along with the excerpt from Answering the Naysayers (Part Two) re the fallacy of not voting for Blyleven based on appearing in two All-Star games only. We'll see if he responds.
   9. Matt Welch Posted: December 26, 2006 at 10:46 AM (#2268784)
Make sure to tell him that Ken McBride is more deserving because he made three.
   10. sunnyday2 Posted: December 26, 2006 at 02:28 PM (#2268803)
Well, the guy voted for Tommy John, who was only IN two All-Star games. OK, so he was on four All-Star teams, but he only pitched in two of 'em. And when I looked up Tommy John, there on the same page was Fergie Jenkins, who pitched in two All-Star games (made three teams). Bottom line: How many All-Star games is a pretty lame way of choosing HoFers, at least down there among the borderliners.
   11. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: December 26, 2006 at 07:03 PM (#2268878)
Obviously, Tony Fernandez is the class of this group. He doesn't belong in the HOF, but he was a very good player


Sadly I agree (he's on my short-list of all-time faves). I might do a "Why Tony Fernandez Is a HOFer" just for gits and shiggles however.

I honestly think he'd be a slam dunk had he stayed in Toronto his entire career. He had eight 100 OPS+ (or better) seasons--all but one of them in Toronto (I'm giving him an honourary 100 OPS+ season for 1993 for obvious reasons).

He just seemed like he played better in Toronto including his two best (120 and 124) at age 36-37. Plus he'd have the 17-season all-with-one-team career that adds luster to a resume.

I miss him. Damned. Good. Ballplayer.

Best Regards

John
   12. RMc's Yelling Mob of Hackmen Posted: December 26, 2006 at 11:19 PM (#2268980)
Can we get all the writers who won't vote for McG promise to use that vote for Trammell instead?
   13. Repoz Posted: December 26, 2006 at 11:38 PM (#2268988)
Can we get all the writers who won't vote for McG promise to use that vote for Trammell instead?

Livingston
Davidoff
Nadel
Pepe
Rosenthal
Sullivan
Holtzman
Perrotto
Galloway
McCoy
Breton
Lincicome
Ryan
Spander
Rains
Henning
Loverro
De Jesus Ortiz
Buckley
Miller
Center
Klapisch
Matthews
Bodley
Rosen
Hawkins
Perkins
Cook
Morrissey
Hoynes
Harper
Gage
Knapp
Verducci
Grossi
Fidlin
Hunt
Shaw
Coughlin
Gomez
Haakenson
Downey
Poole
Alexander
Greenwald
Ingraham
Daughtery
Verdi
Sherman
Reeves
Whicker
Nighengale
Rogers
Borzi
McGrath
Elliott
Noble
Smith
Fennelly
Crasnick
Kelley
Arvia
Olson
Plunkett
Grant
Caputo
Carpiniello
Mooney
Bryant
Oberjuerge
Killion
Telander
Call
Gross
Allen
Faller
Mariotti
Madden

I'll get right on it!

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