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Wednesday, June 06, 2018

Scherzer throws second immaculate inning

Scherzer struck out the side on 9 pitches for the second time in his career.

This seems more likely today than a 3 pitch inning.

, Posted: June 06, 2018 at 01:27 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nationals, scherzer, strikeouts

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   1. eric Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5687145)
The list of players with 2+ immaculate innings is impressive. In addition to Scherzer, there's Lefty Grove, Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, and...Nolan Ryan.

Despite his obvious credentials, I find Ryan to be the most surprising name on that list, he of 2795 career BBs and all.

In case anyone is curious, the only pitcher with more than two was Koufax who managed three.
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5687149)
3 pitches, 3 pop-ups is better.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5687152)
A reliever throwing one pitch and getting a triple play is the ideal.
   4. PreservedFish Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5687157)
Why throw a pitch? One could goad the other team into doing something so outrageously unsportsmanlike that they would forfeit the game.
   5. JAHV Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5687158)
Despite his obvious credentials, I find Ryan to be the most surprising name on that list, he of 2795 career BBs and all.


Although you figure he threw enough innings that in ONE of them he would throw nine straight 100-MPH fastballs for strikes.
   6. Bhaakon Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5687159)
Triple pickoff or gtfo.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5687160)
Triple pickoff or gtfo.

All on the same play?
   8. PreservedFish Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5687164)
The world's greatest hidden ball trick.
   9. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5687168)
A ball that hidden usually requires surgery.
   10. Lassus Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5687169)
In all the immaculate innings recorded, which had the most strikes looking?
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5687171)
This seems more likely today than a 3 pitch inning.


I'm sure it is. Once the first two batters have been retired on two pitches, the third batter sure as hell better be taking a strike.

   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5687172)
I'm sure it is. Once the first two batters have been retired on two pitches, the third batter sure as hell better be taking a strike.


Depends on the game context, no? If you're up 8-1 in the 7th, hack away.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5687173)
Depends on the game context, no? If you're up 8-1 in the 7th, hack away.


I think even in that situation you'd be likely to take one. You'd still want your pitcher to get a little breather before he has to go back out on the mound.

   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5687174)

I think even in that situation you'd be likely to take one. You'd still want your pitcher to get a little breather before he has to go back out on the mound.


Well, late in the game, the same pitcher probably isn't throwing the next inning as threw the last.
   15. Out of Accent Shallow's mouth go burning lamps Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5687175)
In all the immaculate innings recorded, which had the most strikes looking?


How about swinging? Nine swinging would be something else.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5687176)
Well, late in the game, the same pitcher probably isn't throwing the next inning as threw the last.


In an 8-1 game he often is.
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 06, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5687177)
Bugs Bunny got nine swings and misses on one pitch, which is unlikely to ever be topped.
   18. Batman Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5687179)
Triple pickoff or gtfo.

All on the same play?
Tippy Martinez did that, although not on the same play. Naturally, the Orioles won it in the next half-inning on a Lenn Sakata walkoff home run.
   19. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5687185)
I watched the replay. One guy did foul the ball off. Shouldn't that be an immaculate inning, when no one even touches the ball.

He was dealing though.
   20. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5687187)
Tippy Martinez did that, although not on the same play.

That is amazing. How does Willie Upshaw allow himself to be the 3rd player to be picked off. You just saw 2 of your teammates get picked off?
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5687188)
MLB put up another list that Scherzer is on, pitchers with 10 strikeouts in a game and 0 walks, he's done it 19 times, 5th all time behind Randy(36), Schilling(27), Kershaw(22), Clemens(21) and ahead of Pedro(18).

So I decided to see how many other people have even one game with 10 strikeouts and 0 walks, 477 pitchers did it once, 235 pitchers did it twice, 142 did it 3 at least times(Rick Ankiel is on that list) 91 did it 4 times, 57 did it 5 times(this includes Maddux, Sabathia and Lincecum), 48 did it 6 times(this includes Gooden, Hamels AND Tanana) 39 7 or more(Koufax and Lackey are here---) and 28 pitchers did it 8 or more times, for the most part the guys who have done it exactly 8 times is a who's who of good pitchers, Verlander, Ryan, Strasberg, Fergie Jenkins, Blyleven, Kevin Brown..... and Chris Archer. I'm not sure how he made this list, but it does help that this list isn't based upon complete games.

Other active players above 8 include Felix Hernandez(10), Corey Kluber(10), David Price(10) Greinke(11), Bumgarner(12), Sale(13)....

If you require a complete game, this list gets a barren pretty quickly Randy still leads with 17, Clemens 14, Walter Johnson 10, Seaver/Schilling 9, Gibson/Jenkins 8, Kershaw, Pedro, Koufax, Kaat and Drysdale 7. Scherzer is at 5 tied with Blyleven and a couple of others.
   22. cardsfanboy Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5687191)
That is amazing. How does Willie Upshaw allow himself to be the 3rd player to be picked off. You just saw 2 of your teammates get picked off?


Here is a video... (no Albright I promise)
   23. TomH Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5687200)
re: Tippy
- Not only that, but the O's won with the ugliest out-of-position lineup imaginable, after Earl Weaver had pinch hit for Everyone to get the game-tying rally.
- Some time ago, a call came in to the BBHoF desk. Someone asked if Tippy still held the record for most pickoffs in an inning. The researcher (Bill Deane I believe) answered affirmatively, and then being curious, asked if the caller was... indeed, it was Tippy checking :)
   24. Perry Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5687203)
That is amazing. How does Willie Upshaw allow himself to be the 3rd player to be picked off. You just saw 2 of your teammates get picked off?


My recollection is that Sakata the catcher had never caught before, so the runners were taking some liberties.
   25. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 06, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5687204)
Tippy Martinez did that, although not on the same play.

That may have been the greatest regular season Orioles game I've ever listened to. They were down to their last strike in the last of the 9th and got 2 runs to tie it, then came back from a Cliff Johnson home run in the 10th to tie it on a Ripken homer and then win it on the Sakata walkoff. If Lenny somehow managed to retrieve the game ball from the bleachers, I hope he gave it to Tippy.
   26. Batman Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5687230)
- Not only that, but the O's won with the ugliest out-of-position lineup imaginable, after Earl Weaver had pinch hit for Everyone to get the game-tying rally.
It was actually Joe Altobelli. Earl wasn't around that year.
   27. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5687241)

Not only that, but the O's won with the ugliest out-of-position lineup imaginable,
The joke later was that Tippy kept throwing to Eddie Murray because Eddie was the only guy Tippy actually recognized in the infield.
   28. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5687246)
- Some time ago, a call came in to the BBHoF desk. Someone asked if Tippy still held the record for most pickoffs in an inning. The researcher (Bill Deane I believe) answered affirmatively, and then being curious, asked if the caller was... indeed, it was Tippy checking :)


That sounds like a silly question, but technically a pitcher could have four or more pickoffs in an inning. A fielder is given an assist if he makes a throw that would have resulted in a putout if the subsequent fielder makes an error. So it's theoretically possible that a pitcher could have more than three pickoffs in an inning if a fielder the pitcher is throwing to dropped a throw when the runner otherwise would have been out.
   29. , Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5687251)
It isn't MLB (by a looooong shot) but in an American Legion game I once saw a guy fall for the hidden ball trick twice in the same game. The defensive team tried it again as a joke but rapidly realized the guy was once again wandering away from the base and nailed him.

And, no, it wasn't me.
   30. PreservedFish Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5687253)
And some people want to limit pickoff throws. For shame! This is the good #### people! I want to live to see four pickoffs in an inning!
   31. eric Posted: June 06, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5687257)
That sounds like a silly question, but technically a pitcher could have four or more pickoffs in an inning. A fielder is given an assist if he makes a throw that would have resulted in a putout if the subsequent fielder makes an error. So it's theoretically possible that a pitcher could have more than three pickoffs in an inning if a fielder the pitcher is throwing to dropped a throw when the runner otherwise would have been out.


One other interpretation of the intent of the call might be to see if Tippy were still the only one to have achieved the feat.
   32. Batman Posted: June 06, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5687269)
That sounds like a silly question, but technically a pitcher could have four or more pickoffs in an inning. A fielder is given an assist if he makes a throw that would have resulted in a putout if the subsequent fielder makes an error. So it's theoretically possible that a pitcher could have more than three pickoffs in an inning if a fielder the pitcher is throwing to dropped a throw when the runner otherwise would have been out.
Theoretically, Martinez could have picked Willie Upshaw off first an infinite number of times. In one universe, Eddie Murray has been dropping that throw for 35 years. Memorial Stadium is still open, Ripken is stuck on about game 240 of his streak, and Bobby Cox is still managing the Blue Jays.
   33. AndrewJ Posted: June 06, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5687277)
Hmm... 91 immaculate innings out of 7,690,368 half-innings in MLB history. It's been a 1-in-84,500 occurrence, by my quick calculations.

Anyone else here ever see an immaculate inning in person? I was at The Vet in 2002 when this happened in the bottom of the eighth...
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 06, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5687280)
In one universe, Eddie Murray has been dropping that throw for 35 years. Memorial Stadium is still open, Ripken is stuck on about game 240 of his streak, and Bobby Cox is still managing the Blue Jays.
Nonetheless, the MLBPA in that universe still opposes any rule changes for pace of play/length of game.
   35. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 06, 2018 at 08:46 PM (#5687320)

Nonetheless, the MLBPA in that universe still opposes any rule changes for pace of play/length of game.
But there are Spiderman bases.
   36. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 06, 2018 at 08:57 PM (#5687328)
Hmm... 91 immaculate innings out of 7,690,368 half-innings in MLB history.


There's no way that anyone knows how many immaculate innings there have been. No one was recording pitches in Walter Johnson and Rube Waddell's day.
   37. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: June 06, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5687358)
91 immaculate innings out of 7,690,368 half-innings


I like cool stuff like this and Snapper's troll about the pop ups(yes, it's more efficient, it's just not as hard or as fun to watch) deserved the scorn it received in the next few posts, however...

I would think this would be more common. Far more common. MLB hitters are an impressive bunch, but to K 3 of them in a row on 3 pitches each just doesn't seem like it should be THAT rare.

Maybe the Big Train did it like 16 times or something..
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: June 06, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5687398)
I would think this would be more common. Far more common. MLB hitters are an impressive bunch, but to K 3 of them in a row on 3 pitches each just doesn't seem like it should be THAT rare.


There is still a good percentage of balls put in play when swinging, an inning like this requires timing on the foul balls, swing and miss stuff, and just outsmarting the batter. It just seems like it requires near perfect combination of brains and ability to make it happen.
   39. eric Posted: June 06, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5687501)
There's also the fact that players are not trying for immaculate innings; they're trying to make the best decision to help their team.

It is very common for a pitcher up 0-2 to "waste" a pitch to try to get a guy to chase. Additionally, the batter who may take a borderline pitch or one that just isn't right when he has fewer than two strikes will likely be swinging at most pitches that are close down 0-2. Throw in the fact that through 80+% of baseball history most batters were very defensive, contact-focused hitters with two strikes, and I can see how it could be that rare. (I guess to support that hypothesis would be to see if whether or not immaculate inning rates increase nowadays with most batters swinging from the heels regardless of count.)

I don't have the numbers of 0-2 pitches that become balls, or what the general percentage of x-2 called third strikes there are, or what the swing-and-miss %-ages are, but I can imagine a sequence of probabilities that look something like this:

.6*.5*.1*.6*.5*.1*.6*.5*.1 = .000027

First pitch more likely than not to be a strike. Second pitch, given that first pitch is a strike, perhaps less likely as pitcher tries to expand the zone. Third pitch significantly less likely at 0-2 as many pitchers waste a pitch and many batters will swing at anything close (less chance of called strike) and others will just try to make contact (less chance of swinging strike).

1/84,500 = .000012, so half of the above number, but still in the ballpark. And, as mentioned, there's a huge chunk of MLB history where we can't be sure there weren't more immaculate innings. I think that 83 of the 91 known have occurred in the last 65 years means we've probably missed a few from the first half+ of MLB history.
   40. Walt Davis Posted: June 06, 2018 at 11:40 PM (#5687508)
A reliever throwing one pitch and getting a triple play is the ideal.

Since you don't have to throw a pitch to IBB, anybody can do this now ... or go the Tippy route and get 3 outs on no pitches.
   41. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: June 09, 2018 at 07:53 AM (#5688828)
A reliever throwing one pitch and getting a triple play is the ideal.

It's been done.

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