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1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 06:36 PM (#2664457)So what does Scott Boras expect for Mike Stodolka?
Didn't Brattain write about another player who re-discovered himself as a hitter in his late 20s, who seems a much more appropriate analogue here? Am too lazy to look for that article (I think it was on the THT website)
Here is the article
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/rick-ankiels-comeback/
Stan Musial.
This thread is suddenly making me feel a lot more optimistic about Rick Ankiel.
Baseball Cube shows him having 99 at bats in A ball as an outfielder, although he also pitched 26 innings. Trevor Hoffman spent a year at shortstop.
He injured himself in the outfield when he was a pitcher?
Wasn't that just the Red Sox repaying him for crossing the line?
EDIT: Der Komminsk-sar just made me look like a complete idiot, which would be impressive if it weren't so easy.
Joe Nathan did as well. Lesson for today....always try to turn your terrible A ball shortstops into dominant closers.
Is Matt Bush on this path yet?
Yes
And his numbers don't look bad.
Best Regards
John
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Matt Bush&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456713
EDIT: in reference to #17 and 18
EDIT 2: damn you SM for editing while I was editing
Except for the Tommy John:
http://padres.scout.com/2/668898.html
Probably a bad example, as he was very much regarded as a hitter AND a pitcher coming out college (similar to Van Benschoten).
And his numbers don't look bad.
Except for the Tommy John:
http://padres.scout.com/2/668898.html
I wonder if this was the plan all along? I know the Padres wanted an affordable pick, but taking Bush #1 seemed uncharacteristically dumb for Towers.
That said, too bad about the TJ surgery. The best laid plans...
Great minds think alike?
There's loads of position player turned pitchers out there - Percival is a successful one. A few guys in the minors who are getting people's attention include Warner Madrigal, the guy who the Angels lost in a roster snafu this offseason, and the Rockies' Pedro Strop.
Gary Geiger pitched in the minors.
Matt Stairs was a 2B in AAA!!
Baseball Cube shows him having 99 at bats in A ball as an outfielder, although he also pitched 26 innings.
And also the last pitcher to bat in an All-Star Game...
And also the last pitcher to bat in an All-Star Game...
Didn't Charles Nagy do it in the 90s?
As did John Olerud--as a lefty no less!
Best Regards
John
Edit: Damn you John!
Furcal throws now and then during delays. Supposedly hits the mid 90s
Jorge Sosa was converted from being a craptastic OF. And so was Rafael Soriano.
As did John Olerud--as a lefty no less!
There was a pitcher at the University of Washington back in those days that used to wear a helmet on the mound just like Olerud did at first base. I forget his name. John something. Ask Rickey Henderson, he'll remember.
wasn't his pop a lefty too?
He was drafted in all 3 sports, but he never played football in college (or even in high school). The Vikings simply took a flier that they could do SOMETHING with an athlete that gifted.
The amazing thing about his CWS Outstanding Player award is that the Gophers didn't even reach the final game.
1982 4-4, 3.04 ERA
1983 3-1, 2.78 ERA
He gave up pitching as a junior to concentrate on his hitting. At least some teams had been scouting him as a pitcher prior to this.
Besides Ruth, Ankiel and Stodolka is Giants catcher Justin Knoedler. He caught and closed in college at Miami(OH). He was sent to be a closer in short-season ball after being drafted and was dominant. However the next spring training the Giants changed their mind and moved him to catcher where he has been ever since and made the bigs.
Dodger's prospect James McDonald is another hitter to pitcher. He was drafted as a two-way guy and initially talked his way into playing OF, showed some talent there actually but was moved to pitcher a year or two ago and just put up a great year
James Loney was seen as a pitching prospect by most scouts except Logan White coming out of high school. I don't think he has ever pitched professionally though.
As MM1f mentions James McDonald has moved from position player to pitcher in the Dodgers' minors - and was actually Dodgers' minor league pitcher of the year this past season.
At some point - especially if McDonald makes the majors - I'm going to have to dig up my writeup of a game he pitched when he was 12 years old. (If I recall correctly, he threw about 160 pitches in 9 innings, and his top-of-the-ninth 3-run home run didn't hold up against how tired he was in the bottom of the 9th.)
I forgot about Knoedler - he had a 1.24 ERA in 29 innings, then was converted.
Not too uncommon in the 19th century. Al Spalding, Bob Caruthers, Kid Gleason, John Ward, Dave Foutz, Nixey Callahan, Elmer Smith, Cy Seymour, Jack Dunn, Bobby Wallace, George Van Haltren are some that come to mind.
I know this is said in jest, but it's a very bad idea to mix up the University of Washington with Washington State University. (Olerud went to WSU).
As a catcher actually. For a Dodgers' rookie league team.
Cardinals have a similar player right now: Jason Motte, a catcher who couldn't hit a lick, is now a pitcher throwing in the '90s. He was impressive enough at Double-A in '07 to land a spot this winter on the 40-man.
Yes, that's pretty much the story. He feels like he was already headed in the direction of a switch to the outfield, but the injury ended any doubt. When he did his ghosted (Bob Broeg) autobiography, they were able to get the original organizational reports on Musial from the Cardinals' files, and it already seemed to be the consensus when he got hurt in '40 that he was going to be too wild to pitch in the majors but might be able to make it as a hitter.
Incidentally, Musial's mentor during that transition season in Class D in 1940, and a big influence in his life, was Dickie Kerr, the guy who won two games for the Black Sox in the '19 Series.
Besides Ruth, Ankiel and Stodolka is Giants catcher Justin Knoedler.
What about Musial & Olerud,
Besides Ruth, Ankiel and Stodolka is Giants catcher Justin Knoedler. He caught and closed in college at Miami(OH). He was sent to be a closer in short-season ball after being drafted and was dominant. However the next spring training the Giants changed their mind and moved him to catcher where he has been ever since and made the bigs.
Dodger's prospect James McDonald is another hitter to pitcher. He was drafted as a two-way guy and initially talked his way into playing OF, showed some talent there actually but was moved to pitcher a year or two ago and just put up a great year
Smokey Joe Wood got derailed by injury from a possible HOF career as a pitcher, but then went on to be a pretty fair hitter. And going in the other direction, Johnny Lindell began as a pitcher, became a pretty good outfielder for half a dozen years, then after hitting a wall reverted to pitching and wound up his career as a pitcher who also had an OPS+ of 141 as a batter in 133 plate appearances, until forced to retire by an injury.
In studying these cases, I wound up seeing the 1893 pitching-distance change as the great divide. Before then, those who moved in and out of pitching hit about the same whether they were pitching or not. After 1893, those who made the switch from pitching to hitting (by far the more common direction) became better hitters after they stopped (or mostly stopped) pitching. Even Babe Ruth.
Pitcher to hitter is much more rare, especially post-WWII. In recent times, besides Willie Smith and Bobby Darwin, the other two who made to it to MLB before Ankiel were Andy Tomberlin and Ozzie Canseco. John Van Benschoten would seem to be an obvious candidate to attempt it, as he's obviously headed nowhere on the mound.
Ferrell hit 35 HR in 959 AB, which is one HR per 27 AB, through his age 28 season, during which time he was also a terrific pitcher. He was a below average pitcher after that, and he also hit just 3 HR in 214 AB after that - one HR per 71 AB. Of course being traded to the Senators has a lot to do with that, but I get the distinct sense that Ferrell's power stroke disappeared at the same time his pitching arm went bad.
His career OPS+ is a SLG-heavy 100. Given that he probably would have been a better hitter had he not been a pitcher, my guess is that he could have held a corner OF job for a few years at his peak, but not been a star. As it is, he was probably as good or better as a PH than a lot of 4th OF/reserve 1B types that you might find on a bench. (But as a RH power hitter, he didn't fit the usual model of a LF high-average PH.)
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