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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Saturday, May 17, 2008
Yes…Ron Bryant (when not busy carving his sideburns into the shape of saddlebags) has long wondered about this.
Other than Sabathia, none of the five were able to muster up the consistency needed to win 20 games and Sabathia fell just one short of the mark and he started 34 games and threw more than 100 pitches in 27 of them (and actually went 3-1 in the 7 games where he didn’t).
By these numbers, it’s obvious Quality Starts and, in effect, quality pitching is down. Quality Starts shouldn’t be affected by pitch counts or the number of games a pitcher starts yet the number is obviously trending down. Going back the last five seasons, there were just 16 streaks of 11 Quality Starts. Going back in increments of 5 complete seasons, it is the lowest group of 5 seasons. Those five seasons also produced the lowest number of 20-game winners – 13.
While more research is necessary as there are some weak points in the argument and there may be a higher or lower streak number to look at, there is one thing that is certain; there is a deficiency in consistent quality pitching in the majors. While you may not agree that it is not the sole factor in the reduction of 20-game winners, the data shows that this is a bigger factor than pitch counts and the effect that it has on a pitcher’s ability to reach 20 wins when combined with the research done by Elias Sports Bureau.
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1. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: May 17, 2008 at 03:29 PM (#2784062)Plus, pitchers have a better chance of winning 20 games the more well-pitched games they are involved in. Ok, got that.
At least as related to Sabathia, the more he controls his destiny by pitching well into the game (i.e., the pitch number reference), the more he has a chance to win. Ok, got that.
FWIW, Brandon Webb sure looks like he's going to win 20 games this year. Other pitchers, maybe.
prolly more important for him to control his density
W = W% * GS
A pitcher controls his ability. Run support is out of his control, and GS, IP/G are parameters of the current league environment that he has some control over.
Seems to me the 5-man rotation and the slew of bullpen specialists are causing most of the damage. So it is quantity over quality.
Oh, well if the Elias Sports Bureau says it, it's obviously not half-cooked and ridiculous!
@ ACE1242: BUT pitchers are going deeper less often so there should be an increase in 6 IP, 3 ER games... a worry of those critical of the QS stat but also helpful in boosting this number. And QS have not really diminished, they have just been spread out amongst pitchers as they fail to stay consistent.
@ Pasta-diving Jeter: In '07, a quick look shows that the team only blew one win for Sabathia who was pulled after giving up 5 runs in the 6th inning... tough to blame a manager for turning it over to the bullpen after his starter gives up 5 runs in the 6th inning.
@ Master of the small sample size: The thing that it does do is make 20 wins a little bit more special of a feat. No more Wilbur Woods... he won 20 games in '71, '72, '73 and '74 but '73 and '74 were years not deserving of being considered anything special. In '74, he went 20-19 and the team went 21-21 when he pitched... SPECTACULAR!
@ Colin: You may not like the Elias Sports Bureau but the numbers don't lie. If starters still make up 70% of decisions then it puts the bullpen argument into a little bit of question.
Everyone, thanks for the comments... the digging I did into QS was primitive and very early in it's work. I want to dig in more and the more arguments you all put out there for me to shape my next steps in what I research can be better shaped by your criticisms. I appreciate the feedback. :)
Brian Joseph
That isn't certain at all. Maybe pitchers are as good as they ever were, and quality starts are being driven down by the juiced ball, juiced hitters, bandbox stadiums, etc.
But, there is a different major problem with this article. The idea that there is a lack of 20-game winners or 11-QS-streaks (btw, where the heck did 11 come from?) is drawn from the last TWO years. If you take a wider view the numbers do not appear to be in decline at all. For example, in the second graphic 2000-2007 looks indistinguishable from 1980-1987. The charted numbers begin to fall in the mid 70s (exactly when the 5-man rotation gained traction) and appear to have remained steady since 1980 (by which time every team in baseball was using the 5-man rotation).
The pitch count argument is fairly bogus, though. First, based on the Elias Sports Bureau data (which pertains to the 5-man rotation period of time). Then, there's a look at Number Of Starts With At Least 125 Pitches and in parenthesis, the number of 20 game winners:
2007: 14 (1)
2006: 26 (0)
2005: 31 (4)
2004: 46 (3)
2003: 70 (5)
2002: 69 (6)
2001: 74 (7)
2000: 160 (4)
1999: 179 (3)
1998: 212 (4)
1997: 141 (4)
1996: 195 (3)
There was a drastic drop-off from 2000 to 2001 yet the # of 20 game winners nearly doubled and from '01-03, 20-game winners were higher than any year from 1996-2000.
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