Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, March 07, 2016

SEC files fraud charges related to Curt Schilling video game company

The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has filed charges against Wells Fargo and a Rhode Island state agency for defrauding investors when it came to investing in a video game company.

The regulator announced Monday that it was filing civil charges, arguing that the entities failed to inform investors about the financial situation of 38 Studios, a video game company started up by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling.

The litigation, which is ongoing, is the latest in a tumultuous series of events around 38 Studios, which went bankrupt in 2012 and was eventually sued by the state of Rhode Island after it defaulted on debt payments.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 07, 2016 at 03:36 PM | 85 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: curt schilling, fraud, sec

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. villageidiom Posted: March 07, 2016 at 05:10 PM (#5171055)
In a nutshell, they're not citing fraud on the part of Schilling. They're saying 38 Studios asked for $75 million; only $50 million made its way to 38 Studios; but those providing the $50 million didn't tell investors that that was only two-thirds of the money needed to complete the work.
   2. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 07, 2016 at 05:19 PM (#5171063)
Hmm, will have to check out EMMA later to read about these bond issues.
   3. Cargo Cultist Posted: March 07, 2016 at 05:27 PM (#5171069)
Shocker: Curt wasn't the bad guy after all.
   4. madvillain Posted: March 07, 2016 at 05:38 PM (#5171077)
Shocker: Curt wasn't the bad guy after all.


Actually, it was the high salaries of Curt and his staff that probably led to the staggeringly large sum of 78 million needed to develop what from every indication was a mediocre, cookiecutter RPG. Indie studios routinely publish games on budgets 1/50th or less. Sure, AAA studios that are well established have massive budgets like 38 Studios but they also have you know, a history of success and revenue from other projects to support the new ones.

I think the case against Schilling at best is "incredibly incompetent".

edit: doing some more research it seems that Schilling was incredibly naive about the chances for success. He was basing his budget on revenue from WoW, which has been unique it its ability to charge a monthly sub fee and was wildly innovative and popular the same was the iPhone was. I mean, good luck achieving a once a decade breakthrough to meet your goals.
   5. Jeff R. Posted: March 07, 2016 at 06:13 PM (#5171092)

Actually, it was the high salaries of Curt and his staff that probably led to the staggeringly large sum of 78 million needed to develop what from every indication was a mediocre, cookiecutter RPG. Indie studios routinely publish games on budgets 1/50th or less. Sure, AAA studios that are well established have massive budgets like 38 Studios but they also have you know, a history of success and revenue from other projects to support the new ones.

I think the case against Schilling at best is "incredibly incompetent".

edit: doing some more research it seems that Schilling was incredibly naive about the chances for success. He was basing his budget on revenue from WoW, which has been unique it its ability to charge a monthly sub fee and was wildly innovative and popular the same was the iPhone was. I mean, good luck achieving a once a decade breakthrough to meet your goals.


I think Curt and his studio had two major issues going against them:

1) His game, Kingdoms of Amalur, was initially created as an MMORPG to compete with WoW, which was wisely converted to be a single-player RPG. Unfortunately, some of the vestiges of the MMORPG origin persisted (i.e., the world is clearly divided into zones), hampering the single-player version.

2) Kingdoms of Amalur came out after Skyrim, a truly open-world fantasy RPG, whereas KoA was only a kind-of-sort-of open-world game. I actually really liked KoA; but I probably only spent 20-30 hours on the game, whereas I spent easily over 100 hours on Skyrim.

I was actually really suprised that nobody picked up the IP for KoA last year; I think a decent studio could turn KoA into a really good franchise.
   6. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 07, 2016 at 06:19 PM (#5171094)
Schilling's reach overstepped his grasp. He was trying to start a top level studio from scratch, with zero buildup, by making an MMO at a time when subscription based MMOs were all but a thing in the past. Far better and more established game studios have ###### up badly trying to create a second World of Warcraft- just ask Bioware how Star Wars: The Old Republic worked out for them.

I'd put it more under category error than incompetence, but there definitely was incompetence in the mix.

On the other hand, Kingdom of Amalur still has more varied and interesting combat than any RPG since. So we have 38 Studios to thank for rescuing that from the abyss.

eta: KoA was actually a game from a different studio that also went under (Big Huge Games, iirc) that 38 Studios bought the IP for, spent a while polishing, and released so that they could have some cash flow. It sold a couple million copies and got pretty good reviews. It would have needed to sell five times that much and gotten rave reviews to save 38 Studios by that point.

The MMO was still in production, and was not KoA.
   7. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 07, 2016 at 06:24 PM (#5171095)
According to Wiki they got involved earlier than I thought, but the game was already well underway when 38 Studios bought Big Huge Games.

In 2009, they acquired Big Huge Games as Ken Rolston and his team had already been working on an RPG while Big Huge Games was part of THQ.[4] The studio decided to retool their existing single-player role-playing game (RPG) to be set within the same universe in order to introduce the Amalur MMORPG.


I think Curt Schilling is a dingus, but it never ceases to amaze me to see how much #### he gets for doing something that's pretty common in the video game business. Especially since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to go after him for.
   8. madvillain Posted: March 07, 2016 at 07:33 PM (#5171115)
I think Curt Schilling is a dingus, but it never ceases to amaze me to see how much #### he gets for doing something that's pretty common in the video game business. Especially since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to go after him for.


Some of the Deadspin articles I was reading had comments from "former employees" and their version pretty much lines up with what you're saying. It sounds like they had a decent idea, possibly even a good game, but through plain old bad planning and poor management it fell through. Games are hard and MMOs are really hard in particular as you pointed out with Bioware. I believe Blizzard had an MMO game in dev for over 7 years that they ended up cancelling and Blizzard obviously is an industry leader.

The early access trend is in general great for both studios and players IMO because it provides immediate feedback and revenue. The ones that are obviously struggling with concept quickly are abandoned by the playerbase but at least the studio gets enough feedback and revenue from the initial interest to try and iron things out before final release. Problem is of course the invevitable cash grabs but Valve does a pretty good job weeding those off Steam. Kickstarter however seems much less scrupulous.
   9. Rickey! the difference between kangaroos and Zoras Posted: March 07, 2016 at 07:48 PM (#5171119)
I think Curt Schilling is a dingus, but it never ceases to amaze me to see how much #### he gets for doing something that's pretty common in the video game business. Especially since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to go after him for.


I agree with this sentiment entirely. The failure with the game development stems from the same base conditions that make Schilling an easy and obvious target in pretty much every other facet of his post-baseball life; he's a self-important, willfully ignorant jackass with a massively bloated sense of what he can accomplish and his place in the world due to be CURT SCHILLING!!!! That said, of all the reasons to tie Curt Schilling down and repeatedly poop in his mouth, this game system failure is really low on the list.
   10. Paul d mobile Posted: March 07, 2016 at 08:10 PM (#5171129)
For all the talk of the failure of non WoW MMOs, there have been articles in the gaming press about the amount of money brought in by some of the mid-tier MMOs, and even perceived failures, like the Star Wars MMO cited above, have made money (as did Star Trek and others). I realize this would be more compellintg with a link.
   11. Barnaby Jones Posted: March 07, 2016 at 09:29 PM (#5171155)
They're saying 38 Studios asked for $75 million; only $50 million made its way to 38 Studios;


That's not what the article says at all. It clearly states that 38 studios was planning on getting that $25M from elsewhere (which didn't happen, and the company folded), not that the state didn't pay them what was agreed.

According to the SEC, the entities sold $75 billion in bonds to investors and loaned $50 million of those proceeds to 38 Studios to help finance its first video game. The remaining $25 million went to cover bond offering expenses and set up reserve and interest funds.

But the problem came when the entities failed to inform investors that 38 Studios believed it needed $75 million to complete its game and would need to come up with additional financing elsewhere.


These folks are in trouble for not telling investors that Schilling's plan involved generating $25M capital from the aether. This does not exonerate Schilling from his role in the boondoggle.
   12. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 07, 2016 at 10:04 PM (#5171165)
Info. on the Muni Bond issues from EMMA

Now, I'm not going to sit and read each and every disclosure doc. between these three separate issues, but there really isn't anything remarkable about this 'deal.' I noticed (I haven't otherwise paid much attention to this), R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane was on the 'Visionary Team'. The suit also reads like any other Private Placement gone bad, though it is the agent of the issuer (underwriter) which usually wears the target, not the dinguses. The devil will be in those pesky detail.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: March 08, 2016 at 12:31 AM (#5171179)
I assume the reason that Schilling caught so much crap on this is that he "wasted" $50 M of taxpayer money -- even if it was some other state's taxpayers' money. Some people may also wonder why a guy who was paid $100 M to play baseball needs sweet government investment. Some people may think he leveraged his sports celebrity to get the deal. All of those perceptions may be wrong or, even if right, justify disdain for RI politicians moreso than for Schilling but I think it's reasonably understandable why people might be more worked up about that than him saying stupid stuff.
   14. Lassus Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:06 AM (#5171203)
Shocker: Curt wasn't the bad guy after all.

I think the takeaway is that Schilling wasn't the illegal guy. Congratulations, Curt?
   15. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:31 AM (#5171210)
I think the takeaway is that Schilling wasn't the illegal guy. Congratulations, Curt?


Schilling wasn't the bad guy either. He tried to make a successful fantasy MMO, something he had expressed interest in for years, and failed. And it's not like Schilling walked away from 38 Studios with a couple million from a severance package; along with the public money he invested heavily into the project with his personal money and lost that as well. The only fault of Schilling's was to not be liked and to fail in a public setting.
   16. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:32 AM (#5171212)
I assume the reason that Schilling caught so much crap on this is that he "wasted" $50 M of taxpayer money -- even if it was some other state's taxpayers' money.


IIRC he was also the sort of pampered blowhard who was always railing against government stealing his money at gunpoint and whatnot.
   17. Wahoo Sam Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:33 AM (#5171213)
It's real easy to snipe at someone from the sidelines. At least Schilling tried something. There will always be people who want to tear a celebrity down. Most businesses fail. Terrible that state money was involved, of course, but I don't think (based on anything I've read) that what Schilling did here was something to criticize him for, other than poor business management.
   18. Lassus Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:39 AM (#5171217)
...but I don't think (based on anything I've read) that what Schilling did here was something to criticize him for, other than poor business management.

Poor business management that affected so many people so negatively I would think merits valid criticism.
   19. bbmck Posted: March 08, 2016 at 08:53 AM (#5171220)
Curt Schilling was part of previous websites (initially fohguild.org which at least started as an EverQuest website) with an online community and posted about his company from day 1. The basic timeline on the bond issue from his perspective was that they needed more money, RI loaned the money but it was provided under the umbrella of job creation in RI so Curt had to hire a bunch of people at a stage of the game that they should have had a much smaller staff. Once bankruptcy and legal issues came into play Curt no longer posted. Here is a c/p of a post specifically about acquiring Big Huge Games and releasing a single player game.

The website has many offensive and vulgar elements even outside of the section that requires registration, but if anyone is interested in wading through that there are links and summaries to be found that provide a timeline both from Curt/38 Studio perspective as well as various commentary and other linked perspectives over the course of the entire history of the company. NSFW Link NSFW

Steve Danuser a high level 38 Studios employee posted on Feb 12, 2013:

What existed when 38 acquired BHG was very mature tech built specifically for a single-player RPG. Ascendant had some cool assets built for it, but it was far from a complete game. There was framework for an IP, but it wasn't very well fleshed out.

At 38, we had a complementary situation in that we had a huge IP with a lot of depth, but all our MMO tech was still in progress. We'd built Amalur's history initially as backstory for the MMO, but quickly realized we were making something that could genuinely support multiple products and media. There was a notion that someday we'd make single-player games set within the world, but didn't think it would actually happen until after the MMO shipped. The timing of BHG's availability dramatically affected that timeline.

The same week the BHG acquisition was being finalized, we sent some MMO assets down to the Baltimore folks and they had them working within their engine within a day. I still have the videos they made. It was a huge shot in the arm for the 38 team, although we also felt the trepidation that it wasn't going to be the MMO that revealed Amalur to the public. As with any situation where two companies join together, it took some time to build up trust in each other.

After the deal was done, we spent the next several weeks working hand-in-hand with the BHG narrative guys on how the RPG would fit into our universe. We handed them our timeline and extensive lore documentation, and kind of pointed them to a couple areas we thought were well-suited to tell a single-player storyline. They delved into the Age of Arcana, which was exactly the spot we thought would work best. We at 38 had already written the overview of the Crystal War, including the Tuatha and the part they played, and we had dragons and their life cycles as one of the big plot lines of the IP. The BHG guys ran with that, and came up with the addition of Tirnoch as the driving motivator behind the Tuatha's actions. This was perfect, as it fit into the bigger picture and actually set up a ton of hooks that would pay off in the MMO. Thus began a very fertile time of cross-pollination, during which the 38 and BHG narrative teams would regularly have summits together and riff on each other's ideas. Instead of them just following along with our IP, their ideas were pulled into it, making the RPG and MMO all the richer for it. My job was to be the conduit between teams, making sure that the consistency and continuity of the overall IP was maintained, and looking for opportunities to tie the products together as tightly and organically as possible.

As the story for the RPG was being developed, so were the art assets that went into the game. While there were some bits reused and reworked from the Ascendant days, the vast majority was created after the 38 acquisition. Certainly to imply that the RPG was mostly done before 38 came into the picture is completely inaccurate.

If Reckoning ended up feeling to some like a single-player MMO, it wasn't because 38 wanted BHG to make it that way. In some cases, I think it's players with the knowledge that an MMO was in the works projecting those feelings onto the game, but in other cases (question marks above heads, etc.) that was a result of the way the tech and tools were built. The feel of the gameplay--especially the action combat core experience, as well as the dialogue and quest design--was what carried over from Ascendant, not the art assets or game lore.

Once they had the stakes in the ground, BHG proceeded to make the game they wanted to make. The Providence team didn't micromanage them, but we kept in regular contact, attending milestones, visiting back and forth, etc. So it's not accurate to say that "KoA wasn't made by his video game company" by any stretch--a bunch of us, including Curt, spent many, many hours in Baltimore helping the BHG folks in whatever way we could. And as production on the MMO ramped up, we were regularly taking their concepts and reworking them to fit within the needs of Copernicus. Both teams loved that synergy.

The fact is that Reckoning was, by nature of the EA deal, under an insanely tight budget and production schedule, and all aspects about it didn't come out the way any of us really wanted. I can say with absolute confidence that the Reckoning sequel, which was in pre-production when the doors shut, was off to a really strong start and addressed the weaknesses of the first game in a very compelling way. I'm as heartbroken that the next RPG wasn't made as I am that the MMO wasn't finished, and I'm extremely sad that Impossible Studios was cut loose by Epic because they had some really great folks there who I'd happily work with again someday.
   20. Rickey! the difference between kangaroos and Zoras Posted: March 08, 2016 at 09:09 AM (#5171230)
IIRC he was also the sort of pampered blowhard who was always railing against government stealing his money at gunpoint and whatnot.


Misuse of the past tense.
   21. The Good Face Posted: March 08, 2016 at 09:27 AM (#5171237)
On the other hand, Kingdom of Amalur still has more varied and interesting combat than any RPG since. So we have 38 Studios to thank for rescuing that from the abyss.


This. KoA had its flaws, but the combat gameplay was probably the best in any Western RPG before or since.

...but I don't think (based on anything I've read) that what Schilling did here was something to criticize him for, other than poor business management.

Poor business management that affected so many people so negatively I would think merits valid criticism.


Then criticize him on that basis. It's perfectly reasonable to say that Curt Schilling isn't qualified to run a lemonade stand, but that's really all there is here; a guy who had more money and big ideas than business sense and failed accordingly. But he wasn't a crook, he didn't try to cheat or swindle anybody.
   22. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 09:41 AM (#5171241)
IIRC he was also the sort of pampered blowhard who was always railing against government stealing his money at gunpoint and whatnot.


Why bring Ray into this?
   23. Cargo Cultist Posted: March 08, 2016 at 11:05 AM (#5171297)
Then criticize him on that basis. It's perfectly reasonable to say that Curt Schilling isn't qualified to run a lemonade stand, but that's really all there is here; a guy who had more money and big ideas than business sense and failed accordingly. But he wasn't a crook, he didn't try to cheat or swindle anybody.


Exactly. He's not the bad guy in this, he's just s guy who was in over his head. Running a business of any size effectively requires both training and skills that Schilling didn't have, and he tried to do something beyond his talent level and failed. It happens a lot. I respect him for trying, as dumb as I think the effort was: he should have just invested his money somewhere safe and enjoyed the rest of his life. Once I got F-You money, that's what I did and now I just whatever the Hell I want to every day. Instead, he's (they tell me) in financial straits and unhappy. Limited ambitions for the win!
   24. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 11:26 AM (#5171322)
And it's not like Schilling walked away from 38 Studios with a couple million from a severance package; along with the public money he invested heavily into the project with his personal money and lost that as well
Which goes back to a point I've made many times over the years: the stupidity of the anti-player argument, "Why do they need so much money? How could he leave his home team for a few more bucks?"

The problem is, most people asking that question (to the extent it isn't just a pure kneejerk question) picture their own lifestyle, just upgraded a bit. They think "I can get by on $50K per year. So if I get a nicer car and a nicer house and take nicer vacations, maybe I need $100,000 [or even $500,000], but I sure don't need millions." But if you want to really do something with the money more than ordinary consumption, there's no such thing as "so much" money.
   25. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 11:33 AM (#5171336)
But if you want to really do something with the money more than ordinary consumption, there's no such thing as "so much" money.


That's where a rugged individualist boldly sets forth to bilk the taxpayers.
   26. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 08, 2016 at 01:29 PM (#5171462)
Limited ambitions for the win!


Words to live by! I tell people I never had a real job until I was in my 50s, never pushed for "advancement," now I'm going to be retiring in just a few months and my wife & I look to be pretty well set financially. So, the wisdom I've passed on to my kids is, Inertia and lack of ambition will take you a long way in life.
   27. madvillain Posted: March 08, 2016 at 01:43 PM (#5171475)
Once I got F-You money, that's what I did and now I just whatever the Hell I want to every day.


When I got F-You money the first thing I will do is go on the Internet and mention it casually in unrelated topics. As far as satire goes, yours is great. Keep at it.

So, the wisdom I've passed on to my kids is, Inertia and lack of ambition will take you a long way in life.


Sure, if you were a white male born between 1940-1965 you'd have a hell of a time doing anything BUT succeeding. As long as you managed to show more often than not for your factory / sales / middle management job you'd have enjoyed the greatest expansion of wealth in the history of civilization. A rising tide lifted your boat.

Try telling millenials about inertia and lack of ambition. Sorry for the thread drift, seems it was going this way anyways.
   28. PASTE Transcends Almost All Generations (Zeth) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 01:56 PM (#5171484)
In 2016 getting a worthwhile job is practically 100% about having connections, but attendance and geniality alone will still let you keep one basically forever if your ambitions go no further than "keep my current job until I die."
   29. Betts, Bogaerts, and D Price(GGC) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 01:59 PM (#5171488)
In 2016 getting a worthwhile job is practically 100% about having connections, but attendance and geniality alone will still let you keep one basically forever if your ambitions go no further than "keep my current job until I die."


Unless your employer closes its doors. I'm in a similar industry as H&U albeit I'm not located in a great spot geographically for it. I will be hitting my 50s soon and have an interview at another company tmw, so I hope he blazed a path for me.
   30. Greg K Posted: March 08, 2016 at 02:13 PM (#5171497)
So, the wisdom I've passed on to my kids is, Inertia and lack of ambition will take you a long way in life.

You have no idea how comforting that is to hear.
   31. Greg K Posted: March 08, 2016 at 02:14 PM (#5171498)
Try telling millenials about inertia and lack of ambition. Sorry for the thread drift, seems it was going this way anyways.

This is less comforting. I'll choose to ignore it.
   32. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 08, 2016 at 02:15 PM (#5171500)
In 2016 getting a worthwhile job is practically 100% about having connections, but attendance and geniality alone will still let you keep one basically forever if your ambitions go no further than "keep my current job until I die."


This may be the case now, but it definitely wasn't from 2008 to 2010.
   33. Betts, Bogaerts, and D Price(GGC) Posted: March 08, 2016 at 02:23 PM (#5171504)
My problem is that I juuuust missed being born 1940-1965 and chose to be born in 1968 instead.
   34. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 08, 2016 at 04:36 PM (#5171644)
a white male born between 1940-1965 you'd have a hell of a time doing anything BUT succeeding


Guilty as charged, and believe me I have long been aware of it. Which is why I can't get on board when others of my age & class moan about the raw deal WMs are getting. Yes, we are no longer guaranteed 1st place merely for putting in an appearance. No, that does not constitute getting a raw deal.
   35. Walt Davis Posted: March 09, 2016 at 12:29 AM (#5171849)
Since it's been raised, here's the start of a Guardian series on how screwed millenials are. As I've noted, given my financial luck, you punks will start taking money back from the retired the week after I retire.
   36. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 09, 2016 at 09:35 AM (#5171965)
a white male born between 1940-1965 you'd have a hell of a time doing anything BUT succeeding


Now you're resented for even being in the race.
   37. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:08 PM (#5172232)
I'm thinking my kids (born in '83 and '86) are Millennials, is that correct? Not sure how screwed they are. The older one probably has quite a bit of student debt (he and his wife went to a not-inexpensive private college) but he's got what seems to be a good job as a software developer. Younger one has had more of a problem getting established, but that has more to do with his difficulty following through on projects than on the economy or job market (although the fact that living in NYC is really really expensive doesn't help). But the field he's decided to go into--elementary education--is BEGGING for men, so once he jumps the last couple of hoops to get his certification he should be fine. If not, Mrs Useless's workroom gets converted back into a bedroom. Again.

**Sigh**
   38. Greg K Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:37 PM (#5172266)
I'm thinking my kids (born in '83 and '86) are Millennials, is that correct?

Wikipedia suggests the millennial generation is those born from 1982-2004. Though that would make me a millennial, which doesn't seem right.
   39. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:45 PM (#5172273)
I'm thinking my kids (born in '83 and '86) are Millennials, is that correct?


Yeah, Millenials are usually defined as starting around 1978-1982 and ending at or after 2000. I dunno what name they're going to use for the cohort currently being born, Generation Z is really lame.
   40. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:46 PM (#5172275)
I was born in 1982 and I feel a lot more like a millennial than generation x. Especially with the whole graduating from law school into the worst labor market since the 1930s
   41. AROM Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:51 PM (#5172281)
Considering relatively low walk rates and record setting strikeout rates, I think we're currently watching generation XYZ.
   42. Lassus Posted: March 09, 2016 at 01:51 PM (#5172282)
Yeah, Millenials are usually defined as starting around 1978-1982

Wait, what? That can't be right, I'm Gen X, what happened to Generation Y? I was born in 1970, there's no way someone 36 - 38 years old right now is a millennial.

Or did the Millennials simply use their WORST GENERATION EVER status to but up against Gen X, beating Gen Y to death with selfie sticks?
   43. Nasty Nate Posted: March 09, 2016 at 02:00 PM (#5172289)
Wait, what? That can't be right, I'm Gen X, what happened to Generation Y?
The wikipedia article linked above is prolonging Generation Y and renaming it as millenials.

I think the wider definitions are more likely to stick, so I'll have to make peace with my borderline millenial status.
   44. PreservedFish Posted: March 09, 2016 at 02:35 PM (#5172311)
Words to live by! I tell people I never had a real job until I was in my 50s, never pushed for "advancement," now I'm going to be retiring in just a few months and my wife & I look to be pretty well set financially. So, the wisdom I've passed on to my kids is, Inertia and lack of ambition will take you a long way in life.


Newsletter?
   45. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 09, 2016 at 02:38 PM (#5172312)
Mrs Useless's workroom gets converted back into a bedroom.


That's a terrible thing to call your wife!
   46. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 09, 2016 at 05:14 PM (#5172487)
I always liked the definition of Gen X to be 'old enough to remember Reagan as president, but too young to remember Woodstock/Moon Landing'
Not sure where that puts Millenials. Can't remember Bill Buckner/Game 6, but do remember watching Barry Bonds play.
   47. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 09, 2016 at 06:37 PM (#5172535)
I was born in 1970, there's no way someone 36 - 38 years old right now is a millennial.

Or did the Millennials simply use their WORST GENERATION EVER status to but up against Gen X, beating Gen Y to death with selfie sticks?/quote]

The oldest millennials are just turning 36-and I don't think you can argue that people who came of legal age in the year 2000 aren't millennial.

As for worst generation ever, there's no way we're worse than Gen-X. Gen-X is the most overrated generation, and they don't get enough stick because the boomers are such jerks.
   48. Manny Coon Posted: March 09, 2016 at 08:40 PM (#5172578)
I was born in 78 and I feel like I had gen-x childhood and teenage years, but shifted more in Millennial culture as an adult as I was a late bloomer socially and I connected better with younger people. My wife is five years younger and for the most part my social circle is 5-10 years younger. Plenty of people I know from high school have never really let go of Gen-X culture though. I think people from those in between years can go either way depending on what they connect with better.
   49. smileyy Posted: March 10, 2016 at 03:31 AM (#5172637)
I'd put it more under category error than incompetence, but there definitely was incompetence in the mix.


At that scale, I might not differentiate. Not realizing you're out of your league when part of your job involves that evaluation is incompetence.
   50. smileyy Posted: March 10, 2016 at 03:39 AM (#5172639)
After the deal was done, we spent the next several weeks working hand-in-hand with the BHG narrative guys on how the RPG would fit into our universe. We handed them our timeline and extensive lore documentation, and kind of pointed them to a couple areas we thought were well-suited to tell a single-player storyline. They delved into the Age of Arcana, which was exactly the spot we thought would work best. We at 38 had already written the overview of the Crystal War, including the Tuatha and the part they played, and we had dragons and their life cycles as one of the big plot lines of the IP. The BHG guys ran with that, and came up with the addition of Tirnoch as the driving motivator behind the Tuatha's actions. This was perfect, as it fit into the bigger picture and actually set up a ton of hooks that would pay off in the MMO. Thus began a very fertile time of cross-pollination, during which the 38 and BHG narrative teams would regularly have summits together and riff on each other's ideas. Instead of them just following along with our IP, their ideas were pulled into it, making the RPG and MMO all the richer for it. My job was to be the conduit between teams, making sure that the consistency and continuity of the overall IP was maintained, and looking for opportunities to tie the products together as tightly and organically as possible.


Is the NSFW part the amount of masturbatory drivel in this paragraph?
   51. smileyy Posted: March 10, 2016 at 03:41 AM (#5172640)
He's not the bad guy in this, he's just s guy who was in over his head. Running a business of any size effectively requires both training and skills that Schilling didn't have, and he tried to do something beyond his talent level and failed.


When other people get hurt in the process, that's called "being a bad guy"
   52. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: March 10, 2016 at 04:47 AM (#5172642)
When other people get hurt in the process, that's called "being a bad guy"

Yeah, that's right. Everybody who has ever run a failed business is a bad guy.

Nobody "got hurt" by Schilling. People chose to work for and lend money to a startup venture that failed, a risk you take on when you voluntarily work for or lend money to a startup. Unless 38 Studios rounded up child slave labor like Mola Ram, you're argument is absolutely ridiculous. The only involuntary people involved were the taxpayers of Rhode Island, but that's between them and the entity that gave 38 Studios the money.

   53. Karl from NY Posted: March 10, 2016 at 10:59 AM (#5172786)
You guys know why the definition of millennial is 1982 and later? Because you became 18 and an adult in 2000, at the millennium.

The big shift socially for millennials was having internet connectivity in middle and high schools. Birth years before 1982 tend to remember a time before there was easy connectivity to everything.

Then the next big shift is having connectivity *all the time* from smart phones. That's why the post-millennial generation starts with birth years around 2004, as they'll have grown up with smartphones and would never remember a time without always-on connectivity.
I was born in 78 and I feel like I had gen-x childhood and teenage years, but shifted more in Millennial culture as an adult as I was a late bloomer socially and I connected better with younger people.
This is 100% true for me as well. I had online connectivity earlier than most millennials (BBSes, starting around 1990) and feel like I'm more like younger millennials than most people my age.
   54. Nasty Nate Posted: March 10, 2016 at 11:09 AM (#5172805)
I was born in 78 and I feel like I had gen-x childhood and teenage years, but shifted more in Millennial culture as an adult as I was a late bloomer socially and I connected better with younger people.


This is 100% true for me as well. I had online connectivity earlier than most millennials (BBSes, starting around 1990) and feel like I'm more like younger millennials than most people my age.
I'm in the same age group but am somewhat the opposite. I was late getting a cellphone and then late converting to a smartphone, and most of my friends are my age or a few years older.
   55. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 10, 2016 at 11:25 AM (#5172832)
This is 100% true for me as well. I had online connectivity earlier than most millennials (BBSes, starting around 1990)


I'm so much cooler than you - BBS's on my 300 Baud modem in the mid-80s! ASCII breakdancing for the win!
   56. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: March 10, 2016 at 11:25 AM (#5172835)
I was born in 1978 as well, but I feel much more a part of Generation X. I suspect it has to do at least partially with me "coming up" through the sabermetric community at a young age - the usual suspects at the time were all older than me, with the exception of Dave Cameron.
   57. Greg K Posted: March 10, 2016 at 11:36 AM (#5172852)
I'm in the same age group but am somewhat the opposite. I was late getting a cellphone and then late converting to a smartphone, and most of my friends are my age or a few years older.

This is starting to make sense for me now. I certainly fit in the millennial group of existing in a pre-internet world for a while. Born in 1983, our house got internet when I was...probably in grade 6 to 8? But I certainly don't feel very millennial, and that might come down to me never really getting on the cellphone or smartphone train. There's a whole element of culture there that still seems a bit foreign to me.
   58. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: March 10, 2016 at 05:19 PM (#5173155)
There were some terrible moves by Schilling and towards the end he didn't act in an honorable manner. The company was bloated and giving away #### left and right. It wasn't well run and Schilling's wife's uncle was the COO. When it started circling the drain, the company didn't pay its health insurance bills and the insurance was cancelled without any notice to the staff. People who moved to RI towards the end were promised that their houses would be sold by a third-party and the company would pay for moving expenses. Neither happened and people were stuck with moving expenses and a mortgage on a house they didn't live in. This all happened while Curt was bouncing million dollar checks under the delusion that he could save the mess.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/07/38-studios-end-game/

He could never find outside investment, yet he never realized what that meant about the company and its future. He was reckless.
   59. Booey Posted: March 10, 2016 at 05:48 PM (#5173162)
Wait, what? That can't be right, I'm Gen X, what happened to Generation Y? I was born in 1970, there's no way someone 36 - 38 years old right now is a millennial.


Agreed. I was born in 1979 and I've always thought of myself as a Gen-Xer. I turned 12 in 1991 when grunge took off and I was big into that. I was basically dragged out of the 90's kicking and screaming. Most my favorite music and athletes are still from that era. I don't care about most technology and was late getting the internet, a cell phone, IPod, flat screen TV, etc. I'm still not on Facebook or any other type of social media (unless BBTF counts?). I really don't feel a connection to the Millennials at all (except for my wife. She keeps me young. :-)

It really does seem like the cutoff is somewhere between 1980-1982-ish. I'd say my two older brothers (born 1976 and 1978) are both definitely Gen-Xers, while my sister (born 1983) is definitely a Millennial. My younger brother (born 1981) seems to be right on the border and could go either way.
   60. Lassus Posted: March 10, 2016 at 07:05 PM (#5173177)
The pushback on Schilling being an ass in this specific instance is bizarre.

I mean, if the response to #58 is a repeat of #52 with an added "Well, too ####### bad" I'm going to stick with Schilling being as much a POS as simply misguided as his Rome burned rolled one after one after one after one on his D20 instead of putting the ####### die away.
   61. Bote Man makes baseball fun again Posted: March 10, 2016 at 07:16 PM (#5173182)
I'm pretty sure Gen-X refers to the tenth generation born since our founding fathers flipped off King George. X being the Roman numeral for 10 and a generation being roughly 20-22 years. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
   62. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: March 10, 2016 at 07:26 PM (#5173183)
I would not recommend the Guardian for anything financial or math-related. FT got a bunch of traction with this article on millenials and subsequent follow-ups (which likely inspired Graun's), though it is behind a paywall.
   63. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 10, 2016 at 09:09 PM (#5173206)
Lassus, my answer would be that what he did was shitty, but not especially uncommon. And he's less of a villain than most of those situations because he himself lost tens of millions unlike the usual CEO who walks away with a decent severance package even in the case of bankruptcies.

Bote: I'm convinced.

YR: I was playing on my dad's Osbourne when I was 4! Adventure and Star Trek! I am way cooler than you.
   64. The Good Face Posted: March 11, 2016 at 10:19 AM (#5173362)
Lassus, my answer would be that what he did was shitty, but not especially uncommon. And he's less of a villain than most of those situations because he himself lost tens of millions unlike the usual CEO who walks away with a decent severance package even in the case of bankruptcies.


Yeah, Schilling essentially squandered his entire fortune on this folly. He had substantial skin in the game and lost everything. I just don't see how this makes him a bad guy in the annals of business villainy.
   65. Karl from NY Posted: March 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM (#5173363)
Schilling was delusional about 38 Studios, but not malicious. He didn't set out to "steal taxpayer money" or to strand employees without housing and insurance, or to lie about any of that. It happened on his watch and you could call him responsible, but he's no Madoff. Classic case of "don't assume malice where incompetence will suffice."

So yes, it sounds like the Gen-X/millennial/post-millennial thing is mostly about technology and connectivity. If you grew up before the Internet, you think broadcasting your life on Facebook is weird and you have the disenfranchised alienated attitude characteristic of Gen-X. If you grew up with the Internet, you live your life on Facebook with its constant social reinforcement and you have the positive outlook characteristic of millennials. If you grew up with smartphone connectivity, Facebook is where creepy old people hang out and you use other media as a post-millennial. The exact birth dates will be fuzzy depending on when exactly you and your family got into the technologies.
   66. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2016 at 10:44 AM (#5173391)
Yeah, Schilling essentially squandered his entire fortune on this folly. He had substantial skin in the game and lost everything. I just don't see how this makes him a bad guy in the annals of business villainy.

I get this and #63 and the start of #65 and I don't think Schilling is a Madoff or Skilling type at all. I just don't think that the actions from the link in #58 deserve to be dismissed as "oh well he was just not successful", that's all.
   67. The Good Face Posted: March 11, 2016 at 10:57 AM (#5173409)
I get this and #63 and the start of #65 and I don't think Schilling is a Madoff or Skilling type at all. I just don't think that the actions from the link in #58 deserve to be dismissed as "oh well he was just not successful", that's all.


Well then what's your point? He wasn't trying to screw anybody. He had substantial skin in the game. He was just really, really bad at the whole "running a business" thing, and when businesses fail, there are often negative consequences for the people who work for or invested in them, INCLUDING SCHILLING, who lost almost all the money he made in his MLB career. Your insistence that there's something more here seems like personal animus on your part, stemming from Schilling's status as an obnoxious GOP blowhard.
   68. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:14 AM (#5173440)
I get this and #63 and the start of #65 and I don't think Schilling is a Madoff or Skilling type at all. I just don't think that the actions from the link in #58 deserve to be dismissed as "oh well he was just not successful", that's all.


Small real world example: I was a member at a small gym that closed unexpectedly. The owners apparently were losing money and could no longer afford to keep it open. Anyone who had paid dues ahead of time did not get a refund. I was only out a small but of money, but some people had paid for a few months in advance. All the members were bummed the gym closed, and those that were out money were pissed at the time, but no one at this point (it's been a year) harbor any ill will towards the owners. Businesses close and hurt those that were invested in them all the time. It sucks, but it's the counter point to those businesses that do well and bring a lot of people up.
   69. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:25 AM (#5173455)
He wasn't trying to screw anybody.

And people who commit involuntary manslaughter weren't trying to kill anybody, they don't get a OH WELL SOL LOL pass, do they?


INCLUDING SCHILLING, who lost almost all the money he made in his MLB career.

You keeping bringing this up and I have no idea why it matters. If everything had the same outcome and yet he was left with his $15M nest egg, I wouldn't think any differently. I'm talking about the other people who were affected by his actions, what happened to him in concert strikes me as irrelevant.


Your insistence that there's something more here seems like personal animus on your part, stemming from Schilling's status as an obnoxious GOP blowhard.

Yeah, I knew this was coming. Listen, if CLANK had had the exact same path and health insurance and mortgage issues, I'd be happy to say that Stephenson deserves to be called not just incompetent but the same POS I called Schilling above.


Listen, ultimately this comes from two posts above, Dan's and Mitch's. The extremity of Schilling not employing child slave labor does not mean to me that he did not act like a carppy human being in regards to his responsibilities towards the end. It's not like there aren't templates for tech and gaming companies failing responsibly. He COULD have informed people about their health insurance, he COULD have not screwed people with mortgage payments - he didn't, and I think that's being a shitty person. As someone else said above, not unusual, to which I'd say, fine, but not blameless either. To repeat my position: I simply do not think that "Oh well, he tried and failed" excuses the entirety of his bad decisions. I think there is culpability, that's it. Maybe POS is too harsh. I could back that up to "Ass", but he's still culpable for screwing the guys with the mortgages, IMO anyhow.
   70. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:36 AM (#5173475)
And people who commit involuntary manslaughter weren't trying to kill anybody, they don't get a OH WELL SOL LOL pass, do they?


Killing someone while driving drunk is very, very different than trying to succeed in a business and failing.
   71. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:39 AM (#5173480)
Killing someone while driving drunk is very, very different than trying to succeed in a business and failing.

I actually don't think drunk drivers get off that easily these days.

Anyhow, it was just a philosophical point that should have been illuminated somewhat by the remainder of the post.

Again, I just think the irresponsibility of this failure is notable. YMMV, I guess.
   72. The Good Face Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:39 AM (#5173483)
And people who commit involuntary manslaughter weren't trying to kill anybody, they don't get a OH WELL SOL LOL pass, do they?


They broke the law and should be held accountable. What laws did Schilling break?

You keeping bringing this up and I have no idea why it matters. If everything had the same outcome and yet he was left with his $15M nest egg, I wouldn't think any differently. I'm talking about the other people who were affected by his actions, what happened to him in concert strikes me as irrelevant.


It matters because he suffered as much, if not more, than these people you're supposedly so concerned about. Unless you reserve this venom for any business owner whose business fails, there's no reason to single Schilling out. As others have pointed out, much of the time the people responsible for cratering the business walk away with a golden parachute. Schilling lost almost everything he had.

Yeah, I knew this was coming. Listen, if CLANK had had the exact same path and health insurance and mortgage issues, I'd be happy to say that Stephenson deserves to be called not just incompetent but the same POS I called Schilling above.


I have no idea who or what you're talking about. But considering I've never seen you attack a failed business with the sort of venom you've reserved for Schilling, I have to conclude that you're not being honest here. I think you hate the guy for who he is more than what he's done.

Listen, ultimately this comes from two posts above, Dan's and Mitch's. The extremity of Schilling not employing child slave labor does not mean to me that he did not act like a carppy human being in regards to his responsibilities towards the end. It's not like there aren't templates for tech and gaming companies failing responsibly. He COULD have informed people about their health insurance, he COULD have not screwed people with mortgage payments - he didn't, and I think that's being a shitty person. As someone else said above, not unusual, to which I'd say, fine, but not blameless either. To repeat my position: I simply do not think that "Oh well, he tried and failed" excuses the bulk of his bad decisions. I think there is culpability, that's it. Maybe POS is too harsh. I could back that up to "Ass", but he's still culpable for screwing the guys with the mortgages, IMO anyhow.


Where's the evidence that any of his failures here are the result of anything other than incompetence? You're assuming malice when there's a mountain of evidence that the guy was simply far, FAR out of his depth.
   73. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2016 at 11:53 AM (#5173504)
I have no idea who or what you're talking about.

Really? Thought you would. I actually had the name wrong, it's CLANG, a failed video game venture by writer Neal Stephenson? If you're assigning POLITICAL motive to me, it was my attempt to point out something similar. I already know you think I'm a dick and a liar, but whatever.


I've never seen you attack a failed business with the sort of venom you've reserved for Schilling

You consider my revised "ass" to be venom? Even POS is pretty tame, YMMV. And the next time a failed business venture that has unpaid insurance and mortgages resulting from a liberal ballplayer, let me know. I'm not saying that because it wouldn't happen, I'm sure it would, but I don't think I've yet had the opportunity to comment on such a thing.

EDIT: Wait here's the venom, from above #18: "Poor business management that affected so many people so negatively I would think merits valid criticism." DAAAAAAAAAAAMN that is some angry fire I was showing,


Where's the evidence that any of his failures here are the result of anything other than incompetence? You're assuming malice when there's a mountain of evidence that the guy was simply far, FAR out of his depth.

I already said I'm not assuming malice. I'm assigning personal culpability for his repeated incompetence. (Something, in that article, with caveats, Schilling assigns to himself anyhow.)
   74. The Good Face Posted: March 11, 2016 at 01:03 PM (#5173600)
You consider my revised "ass" to be venom? Even POS is pretty tame, YMMV.


For a guy who tried to start a business, acted in good faith, wound up being really bad at it, failed horrible, and lost his personal fortune it seems like venom, yes.

I already said I'm not assuming malice. I'm assigning personal culpability for his repeated incompetence. (Something, in that article, with caveats, Schilling assigns to himself anyhow.)


Well then what's your issue here? Everybody agrees that Schilling was utterly incompetent and there's nobody to blame for that but him. So what does "personal culpability" mean to you? The guy lost all his money and has accepted that his failures were his own fault. What are you looking for here?
   75. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2016 at 01:12 PM (#5173615)
Well then what's your issue here?

Ultimately I do disagree that he 'acted in good faith' at the end. A company dying isn't a light switch being turned off or a car bomb that caught him by surprise. I interpret the manner in which he handled the folding of his company to be in bad faith. If you interpret that as unusually venomous, so be it.
   76. AuntBea Posted: March 11, 2016 at 01:22 PM (#5173629)

Small real world example: I was a member at a small gym that closed unexpectedly. The owners apparently were losing money and could no longer afford to keep it open. Anyone who had paid dues ahead of time did not get a refund. I was only out a small but of money, but some people had paid for a few months in advance. All the members were bummed the gym closed, and those that were out money were pissed at the time, but no one at this point (it's been a year) harbor any ill will towards the owners. Businesses close and hurt those that were invested in them all the time. It sucks, but it's the counter point to those businesses that do well and bring a lot of people up.

This same thing happened to the gym I went to last year. The owner knew it might close down, but was taking new amounts for periods that he was probably 90% sure the gym would note be open for, without telling the members. Then, I was there virtually every day the entire month it was closing, and only heard, second hand, that it was closing two days before it actually closed. The employees said that we could put a message on the website to get refunded, but that turned out to be false.

My wife and I were only out a small amount of money, but I remain pissed to this day about the underhanded way in which the whole thing was dealt with. (One major difference perhaps... the gym was not sold because it was losing money (though it might have been), but rather that the property values had skyrocketed and the owner was cashing out).
   77. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 11, 2016 at 02:15 PM (#5173685)
This same thing happened to the gym I went to last year. The owner knew it might close down, but was taking new amounts for periods that he was probably 90% sure the gym would note be open for, without telling the members.
But note that there's no alternative. If you stop taking new money, you're guaranteed to fail. If you tell everyone, "Sure, we'll take your money, but we're probably going to fail soon," then you're guaranteed to stop taking in new money, and thus guaranteed to fail. Whereas if you do what that guy did, there's a 10% chance of success.
   78. Nasty Nate Posted: March 11, 2016 at 02:19 PM (#5173687)
But note that there's no alternative.
Isn't the alternative to take the money, but then refund the parts that covered time periods after the closure?
   79. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 11, 2016 at 02:29 PM (#5173695)
Isn't the alternative to take the money, but then refund the parts that covered time periods after the closure?


In my case, there were no refunds because there was no money. The owners had been taking future sales to pay for back expenses. Eventually the expenses caught up and they couldn't manage it anymore.
   80. AuntBea Posted: March 11, 2016 at 03:10 PM (#5173718)
But note that there's no alternative. If you stop taking new money, you're guaranteed to fail. If you tell everyone, "Sure, we'll take your money, but we're probably going to fail soon," then you're guaranteed to stop taking in new money, and thus guaranteed to fail. Whereas if you do what that guy did, there's a 10% chance of success.
Doesn't look like you read my post carefully. The gym wasn't closing down because it was losing money. Also, they made no effort to refund the money owed to us.
   81. bobm Posted: March 11, 2016 at 10:30 PM (#5173924)
These folks are in trouble for not telling investors that Schilling's plan involved generating $25M capital from the aether.

He's like a Dickens character. Curt Schilling was curt, shilling.
   82. jmp Posted: March 14, 2016 at 02:17 PM (#5174845)
IIRC (and I rarely do), one thing that Schilling was counting on was some other financial assistance from the state in terms of a tax credit designed for entertainment companies in Rhode Island. It was designed to promote films in RI, but 38 Studios was in discussion with the state to have their company qualify for that. Schilling said he was told that it would happen, and that would give him enough funding until he could get another investor to cover the rest of the production cost. Given his whole hubris of I have always accomplished what I have set my mind to do, I don't think he actually thought his company was going under, until everything just completely fell apart.
   83. Zach Posted: March 14, 2016 at 04:59 PM (#5175027)
According to the SEC, the entities sold $75 billion in bonds to investors and loaned $50 million of those proceeds to 38 Studios to help finance its first video game.

Yeah, that would be an indication that something fishy was going on.
   84. Zach Posted: March 14, 2016 at 05:10 PM (#5175037)
Some people may also wonder why a guy who was paid $100 M to play baseball needs sweet government investment.

Other people might notice that this kind of deal is exactly what the government agency was set up to promote, and Schilling fulfilled his side of the deal.

The deal was, they relocate their headquarters to Rhode Island, and Rhode Island guarantees the financing.

I'm ambivalent about these kinds of deals. On one hand, they attract jobs and expand the tax base, which is why they're popular with voters. On the other hand, there's a lot of potential for corruption or just plain stupid deals. But Rhode Island isn't an innocent victim here -- they got exactly what they bargained for, and nobody can pretend that a game company was supposed to be a risk free investment.
   85. Zach Posted: March 14, 2016 at 05:35 PM (#5175051)
If you grew up before the Internet, you think broadcasting your life on Facebook is weird and you have the disenfranchised alienated attitude characteristic of Gen-X. If you grew up with the Internet, you live your life on Facebook with its constant social reinforcement and you have the positive outlook characteristic of millennials.

I like this definition.

This actually came up in a discussion last week. Neither my brother (1982) nor I ('80) considered ourselves Millenials. We're tail end of Gen X or else we fall between generations. We grew up with books and card catalogues. We have facebook accounts, but update them infrequently. We're both big Kindle readers, which is basically a digital implementation of a pre-digital technology. We're both cheerful people, but we're much closer to Gen X detachment than Millenial entitlement.

Put another way: I graduated college (2002) *and* grad school (2009) in the middle of huge recessions. That makes my life experience much closer to a Gen Xer that graduated in 1991 than a Millenial who graduated in 2012.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Sebastian
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 5-25-16
(291 - 12:36am, May 26)
Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter)

NewsblogA Twins player confronted play-by-play announcer Dick Bremer about his calls
(8 - 12:30am, May 26)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogOTP 2016 May 23: Baseball owners hear from Democratic, Republican strategists
(568 - 12:28am, May 26)
Last: JEe (Jason)

NewsblogDSPN: Unspinning The Mythical Gyroball, The Demon Miracle Pitch That Wasn't
(9 - 12:28am, May 26)
Last: CFiJ

NewsblogNew York Mets' Travis d'Arnaud resumes throwing, headed to Port St. Lu - Mets Blog- ESPN
(7 - 12:17am, May 26)
Last: billyshears

NewsblogTony Gwynn’s Family’s Lawsuit Against Big Tobacco
(36 - 12:13am, May 26)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogClickhole: An Oral History Of The 1998 Major League Baseball Home Run Chase
(10 - 11:15pm, May 25)
Last: Alex meets the threshold for granular review

NewsblogNew York Mets weigh next step for Matt Harvey as right-hander's struggles continue
(35 - 11:06pm, May 25)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

NewsblogOT: Soccer March/April 2016
(1238 - 10:58pm, May 25)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogOT: NBA Playoffs Thread 2016
(2476 - 10:50pm, May 25)
Last: NJ in DC (Now with Wife and Fetus!)

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-25-2016
(12 - 9:01pm, May 25)
Last: Batman

NewsblogDexter Fowler exemplifies why MLB's free agent system is broken
(18 - 7:01pm, May 25)
Last: smileyy

NewsblogThornography » Bill Lee is reportedly running for governor of Vermont
(11 - 6:54pm, May 25)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogMariners Leonys Martin hits walk-off home run | MLB.com
(5 - 6:22pm, May 25)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(1587 - 6:16pm, May 25)
Last: Chokeland Bill

Page rendered in 1.0446 seconds
47 querie(s) executed