I ran into a couple of buddies that are die hard A's fans this week and they are very depressed about the team. I think Beane needs to keep a couple of players long term that fans can root for over several seasons and see them mature in the teams' uniforms. While its easy to say that you root for the team regardless of who is playing I think the constant shuffling of the deck that the A's do takes its toll on the fans.

If these players were 75-55 they'd be fine with it.

I think Beane needs to keep a couple of players long term that fans can root for over several seasons and see them mature in the teams' uniforms.

Chavez' contract has to run out sometime. He'll probably lock someone up then right?

If these players were 75-55 they'd be fine with it.

Well, sure. But they're not. And they weren't last year. And they won't be next year.

If we're going to suck, which we sure as hell are, it'd at least be more fun to suck with a bunch of Marco Scutaro-type fan favorites out there than ####### Emil Brown and Jack Hannahan. Few more Frank Thomas' and Mark Ellis' on this team would make all this crappy play a little more bearable.

The collapse of this team vindicates Beane's decision to rebuild, both before and during the season. Haren, Harden and all the Kings men couldn't make this team a winner.

The fan base seemed to be on board with this being a rebuilding year until the team appeared to be a contender through the first couple months.

The A's fans comments on the article are hysterical. 8 straight seasons in first or 2nd, and with at least 87 wins, and with a payroll that was always in the bottom half of the league, sometimes far below average. One injury crippled season, and six months later in a rebuilding effort he's being ripped like Brian Sabean. Those rippers should move to Pittsburgh or Cincinnati and see how they like decade long rebuilding efforts.

At least they'll win their championships in Fremont, not that cesspool farther north...

I think it might be more like "Beane upbeat because of losses".

If the A's were less than 10 games back in the division right now, how many sportswriters would be bemoaning how they could have been in contention if not for the cleverer-than-thou GM and his white flag trades that gave away Harden and Blanton for so-called "prospects"?

Haren, Harden and all the Kings men couldn't make this team a winner.

Certainly not after they began throwing games, er, giving the next generation of stars like Cliff Pennington their shot.

At least they'll win their championships in Fremont, not that cesspool farther north...

In front of the 10,000 die-hards who still care enough to fight traffic all the way down the peninsula...

At least they'll win their championships in Fremont, not that cesspool farther north...

They're going to be in the cesspool playing under the tarp for at least three more seasons minimum, though. I guess a lot of patience is going to be required.

At least they'll win their championships in Fremont, not that cesspool farther north...

Can somebody explain to me again why Fremont is a better location than Oakland?

In front of the 10,000 die-hards who still care enough to fight traffic all the way down the peninsula...

Yep - I live in Marin and work in SF. As it stands, I attend on average 2-3 A's games and about 6 Giants games per year. If the A's move to Fremont, all the games I attend will be at AT&T.

I thought he meant Sacramento.

Can somebody explain to me again why Fremont is a better location than Oakland?

It's not and the A's aren't moving there.

I'm just curious what peninsula it is that Fremont's supposed to be on.

I'm fine with rebuilding.


I'm not fine with Emil Brown. By any means. I just don't get what trotting out corpses like Brown and Hannahan and Crosby and Embree accomplishes. I've liked the rebuilding job Billy's done so far, but why can't we see more Pennington, just to see if he's worth anything at all. Jeff Gray is on the 40-man roster, might as well see what he can do. I'd love to see if Gregorio Petit can hit enough at the major league level to be an every-day guy. Why trade for Matt Murton and Eric Patterson and then not play them? There's just so much worthless fluff on this roster right now.

Embree, Saarloos, Rajai Davis, Brown, Hannahan, Crosby. We know these guys suck. At least some of the AAAA guys who haven't been given a chance pose some small possibility of being worth a damn.



edit: and I think it's a tossup as to whether the A's ever get a new ballpark anywhere or just get stuck in Oakland and get contracted eventually.

I'm just curious what peninsula it is that Fremont's supposed to be on.

Some might say the East Bay hills serve as a 'buffer' zone, so the area of Fremont/Hayward/Union City is in effect a peninsula. Not that I agree, but I do follow the reasoning.

edit: and I think it's a tossup as to whether the A's ever get a new ballpark anywhere or just get stuck in Oakland and get contracted eventually.

I'm thinking they'll be at whatever-their-stadium-is-called-now for the forseeable future before eventually moving to Sacramento.

I'm fine with rebuilding.


I'm not fine with Emil Brown.

Me too. If the team is rebuilding WTF give Emil Brown $1.4M? What is the purpose of giving PAs to a 33 year old corner OF with OPS+s of 68 and 94 the past 1 2/3 seasons on a rebuilding team?

I'd rather see a parade of career AAA hitters like Val Pascucci than Emil Brown.

Comment 16 reminds me of David Nieporent's complaints about the Orioles, but he had about a hundred times more reasons to complain. If you think the A's, of all teams, haven't gone far enough toward filling the entire roster with guys nobody has ever heard of who were in AA last year, just imagine if you were a fan of any other team. Their entire rotation is no-name rookies or near-rookies now that Duschschuseru is injured. They have to make some compromises (Crosby) toward having recognizable names on the roster. And Hannahan is in fact one of those AAAA guys who finally got his chance, although he seems to have now proven that he sucks after an impressive 2007. And Embree and Saarloos are in very minor roles. Why is Emil Brown playing instead of Murton? Well that I don't know, but maybe they are trying to teach Murton something in the minors and he will come up when rosters expand.

If $1.4M for Emil Brown is the only thing you have to complain about, be happy. And even on a rebuilding team, players have to feel like they're in a position to succeed. Maybe Emil Brown is a great role model for the youngsters and they'll play better if they're watching his example every day. Maybe they are more motivated to play well if they have to compete with established players for playing time. And the same goes for Embree.

Eh, fair enough.


I just really, really hate Emil Brown.

And Hannahan is in fact one of those AAAA guys who finally got his chance, although he seems to have now proven that he sucks after an impressive 2007.

The 2008 A's in some ways remind me of the Bill James analysis of the Kansas City A's of the early 60's, which went something akin to "Their prospects would start out impressively, and then fade. On closer examination, it was easy to see why - they really weren't prospects".

I also thought I remembered seeing one time on Fox bay Area some show where Beane was talking about all the studies they had on pitching motions and how they were working with the pitching staff to eliminate problems with deliveries that might cause injuries. yet here we are and they are once again setting a record with the amount of people they have on the DL. Not to mention that one of the guys they got for Harden is now on the DL. That plus the fact that they seem to not want to associate with anything having to do that they play in Oakland leads me to believe that all these moves were made for when they move to Fremont. Beane has become the Margaret Whitton character in Major League

Who knows, perhaps with the recent wave of violence hitting Oakland (hooded robbers invading restaurants, police cars being ambushed, a reporter being killed), Fremont may not be a bad idea. No, wait, still a bad idea.

In Fremont there really is no "there" there.

Is Fremont still happening? I thought there were major problems with that site.

The EIR is taking longer than expected and the real estate market imploded, so who knows.

If $1.4M for Emil Brown is the only thing you have to complain about, be happy. And even on a rebuilding team, players have to feel like they're in a position to succeed. Maybe Emil Brown is a great role model for the youngsters and they'll play better if they're watching his example every day. Maybe they are more motivated to play well if they have to compete with established players for playing time. And the same goes for Embree.

Huh. Emil Brown is now a role model, and an established player? And the $1.4M to him is OK? Fine. Then why trade Scutaro? At least keep the crappy player who's a fan favourite, instead of the crappy player whom fans either hate, or have never heard of.

<edit: I'm not saying that Beane's a bad GM or anything like that. My complaint is with Emil Brown. I have yet to see any halfway convincing explanation for why he was signed in the first place, and why he's still getting PAs>

Why sign Emil Brown? Well, $1.4 M is nothing and I'm not sure he was expected to play a lot before the Buck injury. And, as the Buck injury showed, the A's weren't exactly real deep in OF. (And boy has Buck sucked this year.)

Why keep playing Brown? Even harder to justify but, the scary thing is, he's one of the better hitters on the team with a 92 OPS+.

Why not play Murton? He kinda stinks it seems.

Why get Murton in the trade if you didn't have enough faith in him to give him a real chance? There's the question. I got no idea.

Emil Brown is my favorite player.

$1.4 M is nothing

I don't know that I'd ever call $1.4 million nothing, especially not with a team that charges its players for sodas. Did it prevent them from signing Alex Rodriguez last winter or trading for CC Sabathia this summer? No, but it's still an obvious waste of money and roster spot.

Those of us in Kansas City paying $12 mill a year for Jose Guillen earnestly wish we had Emil Brown back.

Those of us in Kansas City paying $12 mill a year for Jose Guillen earnestly wish we had Emil Brown back.

That money could be going to Carlos Silva dammit.

Maybe all these A's are deliberately faking injuries so they can get traded to a team with free soda.

All this talk about Emil Brown reminds me...if the season ended today, he would lead his team in RBIs for the fourth consective year!, a stretch that includes an outright released by one club. Has anyone worse ever managed this feat?

The other thing that bothers me is that when the A's were losing playoff series in which they were leading, Beane said that the playoffs were a "crapshoot". Yet when they were only 5 games back after the All-star break, they go and trade 2 of their top starters and one of their other pitchers for prospects instead of maybe addressing some of their short-comings to make a run at said "crapshoot". Kinda makes you wonder if he really belived that his team of 9 "Beanes" was really set up to win this year at all.

Yet when they were only 5 games back after the All-star break, they go and trade 2 of their top starters and one of their other pitchers for prospects instead of maybe addressing some of their short-comings to make a run at said "crapshoot".

But according to some others here, even though the A's were 5 out at the ASB, they still had no chance. I argued then and I'll argue now that the Harden/Gaudin and Blanton trades hurt the team more than just on paper.

Kinda makes you wonder if he really belived that his team of 9 "Beanes" was really set up to win this year at all."

Well, Beane started rebuilding before the season, so I'm guessing that no, he didn't set up to win this year.

It's been a depressing couple of months to be an A's fan. I understand the need to rebuild, and I think the chances of making the playoffs this year (even when the A's were just a few games back of the wild card) were slim, but still. Rooting for prospects to develop is a bit duller than rooting for a big league team to win.

And I hate Emil Brown, but $1.4 million for a fourth outfielder is peanuts.

Even scarier, Brown's 404 SLG is #2 on the team (Cust). Hmmm... Frank Thomas just might be done (down to 255/353/391, 104 OPS+).

Kinda makes you wonder if he really believed that his team of 9 "Beanes" was really set up to win this year at all.

I don't think there's much "wondering" to be done. They weren't a very talented team. Even just 5 games out, no honest assessment could consider them a better team than the Angels (especially an increasingly healthy Angels) and the chances of making up that 5 games was slim. In the past, Beane has shown no reluctance to hold onto players when the team had a chance (Giambi, Tejada, Zito) so this offseason and this season was either a HUGE shift from that philosophy or clearly Beane didn't think they had anything close to what it was going to take.

And it's still hard to argue those in-season trades were clearly going to make this team substantially worse. (The offseason trades of Haren and Swisher were obviously going to hurt the 2008 A's.) Harden has (thankfully!) been lights out but is still a pitch away from another DL trip. Blanton pitched poorly this year (and 6 HR in just 32 IP in Philly). "Throwing in" Gaudin, especially given how little they got back from the Cubs, was highly questionable.

I won't argue that the trades didn't affect the team's psyche -- it's obviously possible and it might mean they've been performing even worse than you'd think. But when Emil Brown just might be the 3rd best healthy hitter on your team, you've got some real issues.

None of this should be taken as Beane apologia. I'm not a huge fan of any of these but the Blanton trade. If Swisher and Haren weren't tied up long-term at reasonable prices, those trades would make perfect sense. The Haren trade doesn't worry me as much because 5 for 1 will almost always work out. I'll bow to the prospect hounds but it's not clear to me that the A's system has that much potential superstar talent. Anyway, I don't know whose idea it was, but the payroll for next year is practically zero (OK, Chavez) and this looks as much like "cheapskate Marlins" or "cheapskate but sign an FA or two Royals/Pirates" while raking in the revenue sharing as anything else.

Whoa! Dan Meyer actually pitched in the majors this year. How'd I miss that?

The other thing that bothers me is that when the A's were losing playoff series in which they were leading, Beane said that the playoffs were a "crapshoot". Yet when they were only 5 games back after the All-star break, they go and trade 2 of their top starters and one of their other pitchers for prospects instead of maybe addressing some of their short-comings to make a run at said "crapshoot". Kinda makes you wonder if he really belived that his team of 9 "Beanes" was really set up to win this year at all.

First, obviously he didn't believe that his team was set up to win this year. Second, the A's still have to get to the "crapshoot," and the 60+ games remaining at the time of the trades are not in any way comparable to a 7 game playoff series. The whole point is that anything can happen in 7 games. That's not true of 60+ games. The team's weaknesses will be (have been) exposed.

First, obviously he didn't believe that his team was set up to win this year. Second, the A's still have to get to the "crapshoot," and the 60+ games remaining at the time of the trades are not in any way comparable to a 7 game playoff series. The whole point is that anything can happen in 7 games. That's not true of 60+ games. The team's weaknesses will be (have been) exposed.

All I'm trying to say is that in light of what has happened in the past it would have been nice after seeing what the state of the team was at the All-Star break to maybe try to fix some of the hitting issues that were plaguing this team. It just seems that it has been some time since Beane has made a move for a run for the playoffs instead of jettisoning players for prospects like he did. I will be thrilled if these players turn out to be what most people think they are but it is just frustrating to think that by the time they do, the perception is that he will be trading them for some more prospects for payroll purposes.

All I'm trying to say is that in light of what has happened in the past it would have been nice after seeing what the state of the team was at the All-Star break to maybe try to fix some of the hitting issues that were plaguing this team.

How?

The absolute king of spin.

The absolute king of spin.

Maybe, but truthfully, it isn't selling anymore. The team attendance is on the exact same downward parabolic trajectory as the team record, and even here at this site, at least half of the hardcore Beane sprouts that were here a few years ago have pretty much gotten out of Virtual Dodge and vanished into the ether.

Maybe I'm casting my own feelings onto the fanbase, but I think a good portion of the A's fanbase is jaded and just expects any good player to get traded at this point. Add to it the constant state of flux around where the team will play in the future, the increased ticket prices, and the worsened atmosphere at the park (the flag and drum guys have pretty much graduated from college, I think), and it's just not that fun. And no Bill King.

I'll bow to the prospect hounds but it's not clear to me that the A's system has that much potential superstar talent. Anyway, I don't know whose idea it was, but the payroll for next year is practically zero (OK, Chavez) and this looks as much like "cheapskate Marlins" or "cheapskate but sign an FA or two Royals/Pirates" while raking in the revenue sharing as anything else.

This is an issue too. For all the prospect collecting Beane has done, I still don't see a can't-miss hitter anywhere in the system. Guys like Doolittle, Carter, Carlos Gonzalez and Barton have their reasons to make you excited, but they're also all glaringly flawed in one way or another.

Maybe I'm casting my own feelings onto the fanbase, but I think a good portion of the A's fanbase is jaded and just expects any good player to get traded at this point. Add to it the constant state of flux around where the team will play in the future, the increased ticket prices, and the worsened atmosphere at the park (the flag and drum guys have pretty much graduated from college, I think), and it's just not that fun. And no Bill King.

This, too, is pretty spot on.

There's also the fact that at the end of the day we've still missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. And next year is almost certain to make it 5 of 6. And, well, then you have 2010, and who knows with that. It's a tough pill to swallow, but the post-Big Three transition almost has to be considered a failure. A lot of that is probably because of some bad luck here and simple economics there, but at least some portion of the responsibility for that has to fall directly on Beane.

Hi, I'm an A's fan and I've been very spoiled for way too long, and I'm not quite sure how to handle an actual rebuild. I'd like to point out every flaw I can find, even if I have to stretch a bit, and form a few conspiracy theoires, etc. I need to ignore/conveniently forget that there is a track record of success that started quicker than everyone expected in '98, so they expect it to start as quickly again. I need to ignore/conveniently forget, or possibly even spin, the fact that when the A's were winning, I still couldn't be bothered to show up and now I'd like to complain that moving 30 miles south means I won't go anymore. Unfortunately, some fans from down south will be more likely to go now, so it's really a wash at worst. I also need to ignore/conveniently forget that we made huge strides in the International Free Agent market with some of that extra cash. F'in Emil Brown is playing here for less than a million and a half damnit, I just don't think I can be a fan anymore!!!!

That sum it up right, fellow A's fans? C'mon, I expect better from true fans. Of course, that's just one man's opinion.

Well it is Fremont. How about the Oakland A's of Fremont?

Fremont was the first US presidential candidate with a beard.

All I'm trying to say is that in light of what has happened in the past it would have been nice after seeing what the state of the team was at the All-Star break to maybe try to fix some of the hitting issues that were plaguing this team.


How?

Jayson Werth is a nice player who made only $1.7 last year and would be leading this team in hr's with 17 which is kinda sad.

Maybe, but truthfully, it isn't selling anymore. The team attendance is on the exact same downward parabolic trajectory as the team record, and even here at this site, at least half of the hardcore Beane sprouts that were here a few years ago have pretty much gotten out of Virtual Dodge and vanished into the ether.

2/10. At least BL would throw us a "Jack Crust" or two.

Speaking of BL I could go for a BLT right now. Best sandwich ever!