So there is an exhibit that goes along with this and I have to ask. Does the hall use ballplayers and their mementos and histories for this exhibit? If they do how do they know the players they are using are clean?

Answering it myself. Apparently the exhibit is a couple of videos about healthy sports training or something like that and has some hall of famers offering their tips and advice. I wonder who the hall of famers are.

So, Mickey Mantle will be formally embarrassed?

Serious question: What does the HOF have on display from the Bonds/McGwire/Sosa era?

“It’s not a message to any writer who votes for the Hall of Fame,” Hall of Fame President Jeff Idelson said. “This is an educational program.”

Oh piffle. I'll believe the first part but this is propaganda/marketing and certainly not an educational program that the HoF should be a part of. It's not the HoF of Healthy Living.

How does Rudy Meoli fit into this?

I just wanted to say that 1975 Topps needs a real comeback. Not just the border, but the photography style of the time period, too.

How does Rudy Meoli fit into this?

I'm guessing that the HOF has emulated Meoli here, by popping the ball into an easy out rather than nailing it.

Partnering with the Taylor Hooton Foundation is a laugh. I feel for the man, but his son died due to issues with lexapro - not steroids. His foundation is passing the buck and blaming others for his son's actions. His group and the HOF should have done a program telling about the dangers of lexapro and adderall, but I guess I have to wait until Mike Bloomberg decides to become the HOF's nanny-in-chief.

Having attended a few post-game activities and post-career activities with George Brett, I can safely say that advising people to emulate his behavior is way off base. Chalres Barkley was right in the "I am not a role model!" ad.

As someone who has worked first-hand on the BASE/Health module, I can say with full confidence that it is a legitimate educational program that will examine the effects (both positive and negative) of performance-enhancing drugs. It will explore the reasons for young athletes turning to steroids, the temptations involved, and the reasons why athletes should look at other options outside of PEDs. It will also look at the agreement between the Players Association and MLB regarding steroids.

As an educational institution, the Hall of Fame has every right (and duty) to offer an educational module centered on health. Health classes are commonly offered at schools, and have been since at least the time I went to grade school in the 1980s. The HOF also offers modules in civil rights, women's history, geography, basic math, geometry, science, and cultural diversity, among many different modules, all done through baseball. What is being done here is this: the HOF is offering a module in health, while done through the prism of baseball. This is a perfectly legitimate part of the curriculum we offer.

I don't know all of the details of the Taylor Hooton story, but Bob, you don't really sound as if you feel for the man. It sounds to me like you are mocking him. Furthermore, are you willing to say unequivocally that Hooton's suicide had NOTHING to do with his use of steroids? Nothing at all? I'm not sure how you would know that. And even if you are right, and his death had nothing to do with steroids, I don't see anything wrong with Mr. Hooton discouraging teenage boys from using steroids. Perhaps he's wrong on the specific cause and effect with regard to his son, but his overall anti-steroid message is the right one.

How does Rudy Meoli fit into this?
I'm guessing that the HOF has emulated Meoli here, by popping the ball into an easy out rather than nailing it.

right up there with the '87 Topps card of Tony Gwynn featuring the back half of his head.

I don't know all of the details of the Taylor Hooton story, but Bob, you don't really sound as if you feel for the man.

Reserach has shown that anti-depressants have a definitive link to teenage suicides - steroids do not. He should be examining black box warnings on lexapro and not manufacturing pseudo-science. I do feel for his loss, but his loss has been used to create national public policy, and creating national policy on a sad story is always wrong.

It sounds to me like you are mocking him.

No, just asking him to follow the science and not his heart.

Furthermore, are you willing to say unequivocally that Hooton's suicide had NOTHING to do with his use of steroids? Nothing at all? I'm not sure how you would know that.

According to the CDC (2007), 3 deaths were attributed to steroids. Odds are very slim.

And even if you are right, and his death had nothing to do with steroids, I don't see anything wrong with Mr. Hooton discouraging teenage boys from using steroids. Perhaps he's wrong on the specific cause and effect with regard to his son, but his overall anti-steroid message is the right one.

Yes, but the message is backwards. Teens are prone to real risk from alcohol, drugs and prescription drugs. Hooton should be wrapping these up into one message and emphasizing the slippery slope of these other substances. I do not advocate the use of AAS's, as there has been little actual scientific study done on human for obvious moral reasons.

And as for the foundation, Internal Revenue Service tax returns show that the Taylor Hooton Foundation has become a “friends and family full employment” dynamo.

According to their 2009 IRS Form 990, foundation President Hooton earned $163,623. The organization’s expenses for that tax year were $672,634, so Hooton’s compensation was 24% of all expenses. In the 2008 tax year, he received $165,000, and the organizations total expenses were $507,973, so his pay was 32% of total expenses.

What percentage of expenses did Dodgers executive Howard Sunkin earn in 2007 from the Dodgers Dream Foundation that triggered a California State AG's investigation? He received $401,395 in compensation of the organization's $1,565,973 in total expenses, sligthly over 25%! That pay was in line with someone that ran a $100 million not for profit.

According to pages 28-29 of the THF 2009 Form 990, the wife of the foundation treasurer received $12,500 as an independent contractor and also $36,000 in salary. A director’s firm got a $98,262 consulting contract, another board member got a $75,000 consulting deal and Hooton’s son was hired and paid $47,075. Counting Hooton’s salary and these transactions, $432,460 of the $672,634 in assets in that fiscal year – 64%! – went to these insiders in compensation and did not go towards programs!


He and his freinds are making a federal tax assisted living off of his son's death due to other causes and I find that objectionable.

Wow. Nice work, Bob.

That's some pretty impressive digging in post #11.

Never realized that Bud Selig puts in 4 hours a week in his capacity of Director of BBHoF.

Serious question: What does the HOF have on display from the Bonds/McGwire/Sosa era?

Since no-one else has answered this, I've been twice in the past two years, including two weeks ago and all I distinctly remember from Bonds/McGwire/Sosa is the Bonds asterisk ball being on display. I'm pretty sure there's some more stuff in the rooms devoted to record-breaking performances and teams and players of the 90's and 00's, but I've always dashed through because it's more or less at the end of the Hall's museum stuff and it's not that interesting to me. IIRC there's stuff on McGwire's tenures with the A's and the Cardinals, but I can't really remember how much is on display. If I had to guess, I'd say there's not more or less stuff from that era than there is from the 70's or 80's, but outside of rooms devoted to Ruth and Aaron there's not a lot on display for any individual player.

The most memorable thing related to that era is a large disclaimer sign on the wall near the HOF's room devoted to this year's performances or the modern game (can't remember which) which states that steroids, amphetamines and other PEDs affected baseball, there's stuff in the HOF relating to players who either admitted using banned substances or are suspected of using them, the hall documents today's game 'honestly and impartially' and 'with the perspective of time the Museum will present and interpret the story of performance-enhancing drugs and their impact on the game.'

#9... sorry Bruce but that's piffle.

The HoF should not be presenting PR propaganda about "healthy living." The HoF's mission is not to teach about health. I have no problem with the HoF exploring and teaching about the history of PEDs in baseball. But it has no business “promoting the healthy habits associated with living free of performance-enhancing substances.” (I am well aware that almost anything qualifies as an "educational program" under 501(c)3, I'm not suggesting the HoF is violating the law.)

And it can be dressed up as objective all it wants but it is clearly a PR move to establish that the HoF is "anti-PEDs". Out of curiosity, when was the HoF' first "civil rights" exhibit? Was civil rights a controversy in baseball at the time? In wider society?

And does the HoF really hold math classes? Or do they provide educational materials to schools? Different things. And when they develop this math material, does it involve actual math teachers to check everything? I'd be surprised if everything in this "healthy living" module is considered settled science/history -- but, fair enough, I haven't seen it and I'm not qualified to judge.

I don't know all of the details of the Taylor Hooton story,

I can't find the original thread but didn't Hooton come on Primer a few times and things got heated?

Just trying to picture what the HOF anti steroid exhibit looks like. Pictures of a bloated late career Jose Canseco? Audio tapes of McGwire and Palmeiro playing as you enter? Glassed in exhibits with needles and pills? It doesn't seem like much of a crowd pleaser.

Walt (and others) BASE white paper

Just started to read it myself.

OK. Finished. About what I expected and probably what you expected Walt.

No exhibit that covers the 1980's cocaine era?

I'm shocked that the BBWAA indcuted admitted violators of federal drug laws.

"Furthermore, substances that improve
performance by causing changes in behavior, arousal level, and/or perception of pain should be considered
performance enhancing"


Hello!

Repoz Posted: August 13, 2012 at 06:48 PM (#4207565)
I don't know all of the details of the Taylor Hooton story,

I can't find the original thread but didn't Hooton come on Primer a few times and things got heated?

- most definitely. VERY heated. no one had any business criticizing taylor for using or his parents for having NOOOOOOO idea that their son had a drug problem. or saying anything not negative about the lethal effects of steroids on the male population

it was so long ago that at the time, the astros were still playing major league baseball
actually, i think it was even pre-registration

Foghorn Leghorn Posted: August 13, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4207667)
"Furthermore, substances that improve
performance by causing changes in behavior, arousal level, and/or perception of pain should be considered
performance enhancing"

- translation

you break The Sacred Home Run Record or you don't appear umble enough to the guys who ignored all the drug use in the first place, this makes you A Bad Guy. also, amphetamines have no effect whatsoever on performance except like drink a cup of coffee or having a good nights sleep - and erasing all the effects of not sleeping is not enhancing your performance. also, it might make The Old Guys look bad, so it don't matter

forgot -

there just might could be a huge difference between growing teenage males using roids and adult full grown males using roids. especially if it affects The Sacred Home Run Record

Good research, Bob. Well done.

I'm still not convinced that steroids played no role in the suicide of Taylor Hooton. I communicated with Dr. Richard Brown, a leading psychiatrist at Bassett Medical Center in Cooperstown. Here's what he had to say:

"Medications such as seizure medications, antidepressants and some anti-malarial drugs can cause suicidal thoughts. And in the hospital, we often see steroids causing increased symptoms [of suicidal thoughts]."

Is this where the old "correlation does not equal causation" come in?

I'm willing to bet that the amount of KFC Famous Bowls a teenager eats tracks rather well the level of self-esteem in a teenager but I don't think that means KFC has some secret ingredient that lowers self-esteem.

I'm willing to bet that the amount of KFC Famous Bowls a teenager eats tracks rather well the level of self-esteem in a teenager but I don't think that means KFC has some secret ingredient that lowers self-esteem.

You've uncovered one of the 11 herbs and spices. 10 to go.

I eat because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I eat...