You keep using that word, "legend"...

Aurilia's inclusion I fullheartedly support, but Shawn freaking Estes? Come on!

46 San Francisco Giants legends would be an oxymoron.

seven seasons (1995-2001) where he earned a 64-50 record with a 4.25 ERA. He was an All-Star in 1997.

That's a pretty good career. Nothing to be ashamed of. But it sounds downright sad in the context of something like wall of fame.

But it sounds downright sad in the context of something like wall of fame.

Especially for a franchise like the Giants, who have as much history as any team in baseball. They generally do a pretty good job of letting people know they played in New York for 75 years (where they won 17 of their 20 pennants and all five of their World Championships) but when you're inducting Shawn freaking Estes into the Wall of Fame, it might be time to step back and maybe put some Christy Mathewson/John McGraw/Mel Ott/Carl Hubbell plaques up instead.

From http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/giants_to_unveil_wall_of_fame/

It will recognize each San Francisco Giants player who meets the following standards:
—He’s retired.
—He played at least nine seasons in San Francisco.
—Or, he played five years as a Giant and made at least one National League All-Star team....

Magowan also noted that players such as Rich Aurilia, Barry Bonds, Shawn Estes, Jeff Kent and Jason Schmidt will join the Wall once they retire. Bonds, baseball’s all-time home run leader, has not played this year but hasn’t officially announced his retirement. Twenty-two honorees are expected to attend the dedication ceremony: Felipe Alou, Vida Blue, Bob Bolin, Orlando Cepeda, Jim Davenport, Darrell Evans, Tito Fuentes, Atlee Hammaker, Mike Krukow, Gary Lavelle, Kirt Manwaring, Willie Mays, Mike McCormick, Willie McCovey, Greg Minton, Kevin Mitchell, Robb Nen, Gaylord Perry, Kirk Rueter, J.T. Snow, Robby Thompson and Matt Williams.

Completing the inaugural contingent are: Jim Barr, Rod Beck, Jeff Brantley, Bobby Bonds, Bob Brenly, John Burkett, Jack Clark, Will Clark, Chili Davis, Dick Dietz, Scott Garrelts, Tom Haller, Jim Ray Hart, Johnnie LeMaster, Jeffrey Leonard, Juan Marichal, Stu Miller, Randy Moffitt, John Montefusco, Rick Reuschel and Chris Speier.

It's an interesting list, to say the least.

when you're inducting Shawn freaking Estes into the Wall of Fame, it might be time to step back and maybe put some Christy Mathewson/John McGraw/Mel Ott/Carl Hubbell plaques up instead.

Hell, Larry Jansen. Hal Schumacher. Larry Doyle. This franchise has an enormous history of very fine players.

Tito Fuentes

You know, Tito Fuentes will be dead, and you'll be able to say "Oh, I listen to him all the time."

Any wall of fame that includes Johnnie LeMaster is a sham.

I'm glad to see Johnnie Lemaster is on there. He is certainly legendary!

Seriously, though, the standard is a little low. Lots of guys make one all star game by having a flukey half a good season. It's actually more of a "Wall of Nostalgia" as anyone who's been a fan for a while will remember all these guys--some of them were among my favorite Giants when I was a kid, whereas others are guys that I think everyone knew were not really all that good--Kirt Manwaring, that's awesome--and others are mostly associated with painful memories--which includes Estes. Thanks for stepping off the second base bag during the playoffs with the Mets, Shawn!

agree with Ginger Nut, I can't imagine the size of St Louis wall of fame if they had that low of a standard, (or the Yankees, Red Sox, Reds etc)

It's actually more of a "Wall of Nostalgia"

That's right.

Thanks for stepping off the second base bag during the playoffs with the Mets, Shawn!

Thanks for reminding me ... my gawd, that had to have been the single stupidest play in the history of baseball.

Estes is, by every account, a delightful fellow, and for a few years at least he was a pretty good pitcher. But he was positively the most air-headed player in the world.

Missed Estes' spot.

Hell, Larry Jansen. Hal Schumacher. Larry Doyle. This franchise has an enormous history of very fine players.

Oh yeah, of course. Heck, they should have Jansen up there considering he was also a notable SF Seal.

I've got a bunch of pictures of the wall and it's very cool, but some of the names are a little bit ridiculous. Johnnie LeMaster is clearly top of the list, but there's probably 8-10 guys on it who nobody would miss if their plaques were replaced by people like Dick Bartell, Roger Bresnahan, John Mize, or Chief Meyers. I really doubt people are holding their child or grandchild's hand and telling them about Bob Bolin, Jim Barr or Randy Moffitt.

I imagine this greatly increases the value of my Bob Bolin autographed baseball!

I love that Wall of Fame at AT&T. It's not in the ballpark. It's right on King Street, open to full public view. When I go to Giants' games, I usually take BART and get off at the Embarcadero station and walk along the waterfront promenade. Just past the Cepeda statue, the Wall of Fame starts.

The idea, really, is not to say these now 46 former Giants were the greatest players. That's what the giant statues of Cepeda, Mays, McCovey, Marichal and (soon coming) Bonds are for. The players on the Wall of Fame, including the all-time greats, are players who in one way or another caught the imagination of Giants' fans. Rod Beck and Bob Brenly, for example, were not all-time greats for the sport of baseball. But as Giants, they were popular players and the fans enjoyed them. That's enough. A poster above pooh-poohed this because "the bar is set so low." But he doesn't understand what this bar is. It's not about the measurable greatness of what they did on the field. It's whether they were players that when Giants fans think of their team they think of those individual guys.

As an A's fan, the Giants' Wall of Fame is yet one more reminder that the Giants do a much better job than most clubs do of building their brand, keeping ex-players in the fold and recognizing their own history so that the fans care about the team, even in down times.

P.S. If you would like to see the entire Wall, go to Google maps, type in "2nd and King Streets, San Francisco, CA" and bring up the "street view." You can "walk" along the entire facade of AT&T Park from there, starting with the Cepeda statue.

I swear that I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw the words "to Wall of Fame" in this headline. Having gotten a different, and shocking, idea from the words "SF Giants to add Rich Aurilia".

As an A's fan, the Giants' Wall of Fame is yet one more reminder that the Giants do a much better job than most clubs do of building their brand, keeping ex-players in the fold and recognizing their own history so that the fans care about the team, even in down times.

This is true. The Giants' marketing program ever since Magowan bought the franchise back in the early '90s (maybe even well before then) has been extraordinarily shrewd, a model.

It's not about the measurable greatness of what they did on the field. It's whether they were players that when Giants fans think of their team they think of those individual guys.

OK, but Johnny Disaster? What do they remind them of? Shared late 70's futility? 100 loss teams (he played for 3 of them in one year)? Why not Hal Lanier? Because he had only 8 years as a Jint? He played more games than Disaster did, and during a much more positive era in SF. Disaster qualifies based on "years" of 68 and 33 games.

He's got a career -7.4 WAR. Does anybody this side of Bill Bergen have a higher negative score?

I do like the fact that the Simpsons' writers were evidently influenced by the Giants Wall of Fame.

It will recognize each San Francisco Giants player who meets the following standards:
—He’s retired.
—He played at least nine seasons in San Francisco.
—Or, he played five years as a Giant and made at least one National League All-Star team....

Those scumbags aren't fooling anyone. The Wall of Fame criteria were deliberately crafted to exclude Mike LaCoss.

As an A's fan, the Giants' Wall of Fame is yet one more reminder that the Giants do a much better job than most clubs do of building their brand, keeping ex-players in the fold and recognizing their own history so that the fans care about the team, even in down times.

This is true. The Giants' marketing program ever since Magowan bought the franchise back in the early '90s (maybe even well before then) has been extraordinarily shrewd, a model.

Which is funny, because the Giant's actual advertisement campaigned have ranged from extremely cheesy (It's magic inside!) to completely forgettable. The A's probably have better (or at least more memorable/less embarrassing) commercials, but they are a complete PR disaster otherwise.

I don't think this "Wall of Fame" with such low standards for induction is such a bad thing. When I think of the Giants of the late 1990s and early 2000s, Shawn Estes and Rich Aurilia are two of the first players I think of. Like it or not, they were both part of the team's history that a lot of fans remember.

And really, any player that plays for a team in parts of 9 years or parts of 5 years and gets a fluke ASG appearance will be memorable. The first two Twins that came to mind that would barely make a similar wall were Denny Hocking (11 seasons, including years with 9, 11, and 15 games) and Ron Coomer (6 years and a sympathy ASG in 1999). Were they great players? No. Did they lead the Twins to glory? Absolutely not. Do I have a ton of memories of them from my formative years as a baseball fan? You bet. And I wouldn't have a problem with a small plaque commemorating their time with the team outside Target Field, even if they were mixed in with actual good baseball players.

After 30 seconds of looking, it appears I have to add Mike Trombley to my previous group of Twins greats, thanks to a career-capping 4 IP, 7 ER return engagement with the team in 2002. Now I think the wall is a horribly retarded idea.

Which is funny, because the Giant's actual advertisement campaigned have ranged from extremely cheesy (It's magic inside!) to completely forgettable. The A's probably have better (or at least more memorable/less embarrassing) commercials, but they are a complete PR disaster otherwise.

Agreed. The A's commercials are generally funnier & more clever than those for the Giants. But commercials make up just one part of an overall marketing program, probably even a small part for a sports franchise.

The best A's ad line was on a billboard. If I recall correctly, they placed it just west of the Bay Bridge in San Francisco, not far from the then-new Pacific Bell Park. It was something like: "They built a ballpark. We built a ballclub."

This isn't such a high honor that anyone should be getting worked up over players who don't deserve it. For something like this, it's better to err on the side of too many than too few.

Besides, all of these players are memorable to someone. If you were 5 to 10 years old when someone played for your favorite team, you're going to have positive memories of that guy, even if as an adult you realize the guy completely sucked. I'm sure there have been plenty of LeMaster fans who've gotten a kick out of seeing his plaque.

The best A's ad line was on a billboard. If I recall correctly, they placed it just west of the Bay Bridge in San Francisco, not far from the then-new Pacific Bell Park. It was something like: "They built a ballpark. We built a ballclub."

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The Giants built an NL Championship team, the A's built a, umm, ALDS runner-up?

The best A's line I saw was on a sailboat in McCovey Cove during an interleague game:

"The A's: 0 Splash Hits. 4 World Championships"

This has been my wallpaper on my work PC for a while.

After reading the entrance prerequisites, I think that this is pretty nifty. I might make it 6 years and an ASG or something, but it's not like they're retiring numbers or anything and it helps the fans sense of history.

Nice idea maybe, but I looked up some of the rosters of which Aurilla and Estes were members and a bunch of those Giants were about the same or marginally less worthy of being called "Giants legends"

"Zero splash hits, Four world titles" is cute. But when the second-most recent of those world titles came six years before the retirement of McCovey Cove's namesake, I dunno...

He's got a career -7.4 WAR. Does anybody this side of Bill Bergen have a higher negative score?

A few, not many.

One of them is currently active. Juan Castro. He's been in the majors since 1995 and I have absolutely no idea who he is. I'm sure I've heard the name, probably many times, but it's so generic it means nothing to me. He spent long periods with a couple teams. I couldn't tell you what he looks like, anything he's ever done. He;s never had an OPS over .678 in any season. I feel ashamed I've been missing one of the great terrible careers in MLB history and it's probably almost over. Career WAR: -10.5.

I mean, I know most of the names on his "most similar" list. I've read about Willie Bloomquist a zillion times. Why is Juan Castro a cypher to me?