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Friday, December 18, 2009

Shocker: Mariners trading Carlos Silva for Milton Bradley

You got the Silva… you got the gelt…

The Seattle Mariners have found a way to get rid of one of their last lingering problems. According to major-league sources, the club is on the verge of trading Carlos Silva, who still has two years remaining on the four-year, $48 million contract given him by former general manager Bill Bavasi before the 2008 season, to the Cubs in exchange for outfielder Milton Bradley.

The District Attorney Posted: December 18, 2009 at 05:43 PM | 205 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, mariners

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   101. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:45 PM (#3417174)
Awful trade. This is worse than trading for pennies on the dollar. This time, they unloaded a guy with upside for one of the most useless, overpaid starting pitchers in baseball.
   102. calhounite Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:45 PM (#3417175)
Silva means nothing to Chicago. They make about mil or less off the deal since Bradley's an automatic sign for league minimum if cut, which comes off the top.
   103. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:46 PM (#3417176)
Of course the Cubs are still left with the worst contract on the roster--Alfonso Soriano's.
   104. JoeHova Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3417179)
I'd bet most of the players would prefer having Bradley back to the fat piece of #### they just picked up.

Especially because that fat piece of #### played the Mark Grace role throughout 2008, anonymously bad-mouthing Ichiro to the media. If things aren't going well in Chicago, Silva will surely start placing blame via anonymous quotes, which can't be something other players enjoy.
   105. JJ1986 Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3417181)
What is the "record" for the most money a team has eaten by cutting a player?

BJ Ryan got cut last year for something near $20m. That's got to be up there.
   106. RJ in TO Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:50 PM (#3417182)
What is the "record" for the most money a team has eaten by cutting a player? I cant think there are too many $20MM+ obligations that teams have eaten.


I'm not sure, but I think Russ Ortiz still holds the record.
   107. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3417185)
This won't ever "make sense," but it will make a little bit of sense if the Cubs got some cash and will just cut their losses with Silva in ST. Otherwise, I'm gonna really need to stick to my pledge to take the Cubs less seriously in 2010.
   108. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3417188)
There were comments you'd expect a player still employed by the guy who suspended Bradley to make.

There were also comments you'd expect a player who might have to share a clubhouse with Bradley to make.

Look, I'd be willing to listen to an argument that the whole situation was the Cubs' doing, that Bradley was blameless, a victim of vindictive media, mouthbreathing fans, and clueless management. I'd be willing to believe that the Cubs shot themselves in the foot and torpedoed Bradley's trade value.

But whoever was at fault, there was no way that Bradley could come back to the Cubs in 2010. Other teams knew that, which is why the Cubs didn't get anything of value for him. All things considered, the Cubs did good to save some money.

Now, all they need to do is not compound the problem by giving Carlos Silva an important role on the team.
   109. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3417190)
Everybody likes Milton Bradley until they get a full dose of him. This Cubs fan, for one, says good riddance. The mistake was signing him in the first place when they could've had Adam Dunn jacking bombs onto Sheffield on a regular basis.

He's like that cute girl with a trail of horrible relationships that you see walking along one day with her proud new boyfriend, and you think "Yeah, buddy, you're smiling now, but you don't even know what's about to hit you."
   110. Matt Welch Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:57 PM (#3417193)
So that's something.

Been that kind of month.
   111. geonose Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:57 PM (#3417194)
it will make a little bit of sense if the Cubs got some cash

They did; $9 million.
   112. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3417197)
Ah, SteveM, Andere and Ryan are here. Let the fear and loathing begin in earnest.

EDIT: And Fred Garvin and Walks. It's like old times.
   113. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3417198)
What's the fireable offense? Signing Bradley in the first place, letting the situation get to the point where they had to dump him, or not being able to get more in trade?

Yes.
   114. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:01 PM (#3417204)
When's the last time you saw the Cubs cut bait and eat a $21MM obligation? You really think that a new owner paying a crapload to buy the team would do this?

No, but it was still a better idea than trading for Carlos Bloody Silva.
   115. Greg K Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3417205)
Everybody likes Milton Bradley until they get a full dose of him.

I actually don't know, is this true of Rangers fans?
Or was that season not a full dose.
   116. AROM Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3417214)
If you accept that Bradley otherwise had to be released, then it's a good trade since Seattle sends enough money back, making cutting Silva a less expensive idea. I don't accept that. He's too good, I'd prefer a GM to have a set, make things work, and ignore the local writers who are selling this line.

For the Mariners, if they are kicking in 6 million, essentially get Bradley on a 3 million/2 year deal since Silva was a complete sunk cost.
   117. The Good Face Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3417216)
I actually don't know, is this true of Rangers fans?
Or was that season not a full dose.


No, it was a full dose, but for whatever reason, things worked out for Bradley in Texas. Maybe Ron Washington won his trust, maybe the low expectations combined with the Josh Hamilton breakthrough season kept the spotlight off him, but he was generally pretty cromulent in his time there. Of course, it's easy to tolerate a guy who hits the way Bradley hit in 2008...
   118. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3417221)
For the Mariners, if they are kicking in 6 million, essentially get Bradley on a 3 million/2 year deal since Silva was a complete sunk cost.

From that perspective, it's probably about what Bradley is worth at this point. If the $9 million figure is accurate, I'd call the trade about even.

Unless, of course, the Cubs don't think that Silva is a complete sunk cost and give him significant playing time, but that decision, if it happens, should probably be considered separately.
   119. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3417222)
No, but it was still a better idea than trading for Carlos Bloody Silva.

But you and I both know that the Cubs were not going to simply release Bradley. We can talk sbout sunk costs all we want, but Hendry wasn't going to do it.

The real question is what to do now. Silva was hurt most of last year -- is there a way to make use of him (as a 5th starter, in the bullpen, or whatever)? Better still, is there a way that he can be flipped for low to mid level prospects (eating some salary) in a way that they couldn't do with Bradley?
   120. RJ in TO Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3417225)
Better still, is there a way that he can be flipped for low to mid level prospects (eating some salary) in a way that they couldn't do with Bradley>


They'd have to eat all the salary, and even then they'd probably only get organizational filler. After all, we're talking about a guy who was horrific in 2008, and then worse in 2009 up until he got hurt. No one is trading anything of value for him until he demonstrates that he still knows how to pitch.
   121. JoeHova Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3417226)

From that perspective, it's probably about what Bradley is worth at this point.

You really think Bradley is worth only $3 million per year? (I'm getting that number by subtracting the difference between the 2 contracts from the reported $9 million the Mariners gave the Cubs, then dividing by 2 years.) Maybe if you give him demerits for being a jerk, but it seems clear that his on-field value projects to be well above $3 million. I can definitely understand arguments for not wanting him around but I think I'd much rather have him at $15 million per year over Silva for $12 million per year. This way the Mariners have some chance of getting something in return for all that wasted money. Obviously you'd rather have neither one but the Mariners had to choose.
   122. JJ1986 Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3417232)
Oliver Perez is better than Carlos Silva. Mets should have done that.
   123. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:22 PM (#3417234)
FWLIW... per Chone, Silva projects to 0.9 WAR - and Bradley 2.0 WAR. For those liking the $3M/win idea (which I keep harping on), well, there you go...
   124. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3417239)
You really think Bradley is worth only $3 million per year?

Bradley is such a risky, volatile asset (not only from a personality standpoint, but from a health standpoint) that I wouldn't devote more than that to him.
   125. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:37 PM (#3417241)
per Chone, Silva projects to 0.9 WAR


Well, I'll never trust Chone again.
   126. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3417243)
If you accept that Bradley otherwise had to be released...


Why would we assume that to be true?
   127. Cabbage Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3417244)
I see there is nothing for me to add to this thread. Good work boys.

I have a feeling this summer's Cubs team will remind me a lot of this winter's Bulls team.
   128. zonk Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3417248)
Everybody likes Milton Bradley until they get a full dose of him. This Cubs fan, for one, says good riddance. The mistake was signing him in the first place when they could've had Adam Dunn jacking bombs onto Sheffield on a regular basis.


I just want everyone to know, this is a not a sock puppet me nor have paid or otherwise coerced anyone into saying pretty much what I started saying last March.

We have to be due for some sort of crazy hell freezing over luck at some point, right?

I mean, Marquis was serviceable, but we dump him and he becomes a deserving all-star.

Maybe this will be karmically good?
   129. zonk Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:56 PM (#3417252)

But you and I both know that the Cubs were not going to simply release Bradley. We can talk sbout sunk costs all we want, but Hendry wasn't going to do it.


He had no problem eating Vizcaino... I guess it was a lot less money, but still.

Why doesn't Hendry just ship Starlin Castro, Josh Vitters, Murphy's Bleachers, and the Harry Caray statue to San Francisco for Aaron Rowand already?

I mean, I'm tired of this nickel and dime feeling of wanting to cut myself.... just go full-blown self-immolation and get it over with.
   130. RJ in TO Posted: December 18, 2009 at 09:58 PM (#3417255)
He had no problem eating Vizcaino...


Given Silva's size, he would also have no problem eating Vizcaino. Just give him some BBQ (not BBW) sauce and a fork.

EDITED for a lack of typing skills.
   131. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:06 PM (#3417260)
BBW sauce


Big, Beautiful Woman sauce? Do explain.


FWIW, I find that to be a brilliant typo.
   132. RJ in TO Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:09 PM (#3417261)
FWIW, I find that to be a brilliant typo.


Thank you for pointing that out before the edit option went away.
   133. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:10 PM (#3417262)
Holy crap! The Cubs would have been better off trading Bradley for Pat Burrell, throwing in 9 million bucks, and using Burrell as a DH.
   134. RJ in TO Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:14 PM (#3417264)
Since this is a Cubs thread...

So I just wandered over to MSNBC, and found these two headlines back-to-back:

Mesa loosens restrictions on owning livestock
and
Mesa upgrading Cubs' spring field.

I don't know what it all means together, but I find it funny.
   135. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:14 PM (#3417266)
He had no problem eating Vizcaino... I guess it was a lot less money, but still.

Yeah, at least $15MM less.
   136. madvillain Posted: December 18, 2009 at 10:46 PM (#3417280)
I don't get it, please tell me where I'm ignorant here guys: So given that Silva (or any piece they could have gotten back for a guy with ZERO trade value) sucks, and will hurt the team if allowed to play then why in the heck do you trade Bradley?

So you save a few bucks? I mean, how much is that 2 million worth now that you've just traded a productive outfield bat (when healthy, which is a risk for sure) for a guy that has a decent chance of seriously hurting the club should he play in 2010?

Why don't you just cut the guy? Or better yet KEEP HIM and READ HIM THE RIOT ACT. If he refuses to play the club can file a grievance and get his salary back right? Is there much risk in saying, "Milton, I messed up. In fact, I am here to apologize to you for how we handled last year. I realize that you were frustrated and that we compounded the problems, blah blah blah

...we want you on this team in 2010 because we brought you here to help us win games and we know you can do help us do that.

________


Just suck it up and admit you were wrong, even if you don't believe it. That's what a managers sometimes have to do for the good of the club, put the ego aside and let the guy think you're sorry, even if you don't believe it.

I just don't get this. Hendry should have just sucked up his ego (and his gut) spilled his guts to Milton, begged him to come back or whatever, and moved on to other business. Running off Milton and getting Silva (just to save 2 million) seems like about the dumbest thing Hendry could have done.
   137. Walt Davis Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:03 PM (#3417292)
In addition to Ryan and Ortiz, the Dodgers released Andruw Jones last year though they saved some money in the restructuring.

If the Cubs saved enough payroll to sign a useful player, I'm OK with this move under the circumstances. The Cubs mishandled Bradley and acted childish thus painting themselves into a corner.

Part of what really bothers me about this though is that I don't think a team can be successful when a GM has to cater to a manager's wishes (or probably vice versa). You can't keep making moves that hurt the talent level of your team because the manager doesn't like or won't play the players you've got.

Anyway, it's just an awful offseason for the Cubs. And lord only knows what they're going to spend this Seattle money on but I'm expecting to be underwhelmed.
   138. tfbg9 Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:06 PM (#3417294)
No, but it was still a better idea than trading for Carlos Bloody Silva.


What are you talking about? Hendry saw a chance to get the drawing card who holds the modern record
for fewest BB's per 9, and simply leapt at it!
   139. Sam M. Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:08 PM (#3417295)
Oliver Perez is better than Carlos Silva. Mets should have done that.

No, they really shouldn't have. Milton Bradley coming to New York would have to be one of the worst ideas in the history of baseball. Say whatever you want about his value on the field, and whether he can contribute in the right circumstances. NYC is NOT the place. He needs to be in the DH league (where he is more likely to stay healthy), and he needs to be out of the spotlight. The Mets would be the absolute worst destination in the known universe for Milton Bradley.
   140. Walt Davis Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:14 PM (#3417298)
Let me expound a bit because I think this pandering to manager's wishes may be Hendry's greatest fault as a GM. We saw it with Baker too, especially in terms of bench construction and creating playing time for younger players (yes, in Baker's last half-season, the kids played). It's one thing if the GM and the manager are on the same page -- think Jocketty/LaRussa, Schuerholz/Cox -- and it's possible that Hendry is on the same page as Baker was and Piniella is. But I get the feeling (and it is just a hunch) that Hendry makes the same arguments to himself as are made here -- Bradley has to go because Piniella won't play him ... which means Piniella didn't manage him well. (note it's even worse if Hendry is catering to the media.)

That's bad general managing. Some managers might have enough positives that you'll cater to their whims but Piniella (who I think is overall an above-average manager) is not one of them.

And now the Cubs are looking at a starting OF of Soriano, Byrd/Fuld, Fukudome? Really? On a $130 M payroll? Outside of several Mets teams (across several GMs) has there been a bigger waste of resources in recent memory than the 2010 (and 2011) Cubs?
   141. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:16 PM (#3417300)
But you and I both know that the Cubs were not going to simply release Bradley. We can talk sbout sunk costs all we want, but Hendry wasn't going to do it.

Oh, I know that, but it doesn't make it any less maddening. I mean, if you've backed yourself into a corner like Hendry had, might as do the least disadvantageous thing. I guess it bugs me not only because they're losing whatever Bradley brings to the table in 2010, but because it's become almost entirely about face-saving.
   142. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:16 PM (#3417301)
Just suck it up and admit you were wrong, even if you don't believe it. That's what a managers sometimes have to do for the good of the club, put the ego aside and let the guy think you're sorry, even if you don't believe it.

So then I take it that you are not in fact aware of the name of the gentleman who currently manages the Cubs.

The Cubs would have been better off trading Bradley for Pat Burrell, throwing in 9 million bucks, and using Burrell as a DH.

Subtle.
   143. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM (#3417302)
I see there is nothing for me to add to this thread. Good work boys.

We froth at the mouth so you don't have to.
   144. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:20 PM (#3417303)
I don't get it, please tell me where I'm ignorant here guys: So given that Silva (or any piece they could have gotten back for a guy with ZERO trade value) sucks, and will hurt the team if allowed to play then why in the heck do you trade Bradley?

See 141. It's all (or 90 percent, at least) about face-saving.

I just don't get this. Hendry should have just sucked up his ego (and his gut) spilled his guts to Milton, begged him to come back or whatever, and moved on to other business. Running off Milton and getting Silva (just to save 2 million) seems like about the dumbest thing Hendry could have done.

Yeah, well, that's our Jimbo.
   145. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:23 PM (#3417305)
What are you talking about? Hendry saw a chance to get the drawing card who holds the modern record
for fewest BB's per 9, and simply leapt at it!


I know. And the intense media spotlight centered on Silva's quest to break his own record will surely mean he stays in the rotation come hell or high water. ;-)
   146. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM (#3417306)
Hendry saw a chance to get the drawing card

The 2010 Cubs: Bringing fans to the park through gravitational pull!
   147. Walt Davis Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:27 PM (#3417308)
The Mets would be the absolute worst destination in the known universe for Milton Bradley.

I have to agree with Sam here.

But I'd have been near ecstatic to get Perez in exchange for Bradley.

I also meant to address the money issue. 3/$30 for Bradley was not a bad contract, even in that market. Yes, 1/$5 for Abreu would have been a lot better and 3/$30 for Bradley is probably a slight overpay. But Bradley has been an excellent hitter, the Cubs had injury protection in the contract, the big question was his defense in RF which UZR put as a little below average (and projects as average for 2010). Fangraphs put Bradley at 1 WAR last year, Dunn at 1.2 WAR. Bradley will hit better than he did in 2009 while Dunn hit better than ever in 2009. Injury risk aside (do you like how I did that :-), Bradley looks like the better bet for 2010.

And on Dempster -- nobody was a bigger doubter of Dempster than I was. But last offseason, the pitchers got their money -- CC, Burnett, Lowe, Perez, etc. There weren't bargains for good starting pitchers. Dempster outpitched Burnett and Lowe and really wasn't that far off Sabathia (weaker league I know). It's true the Cubs were bidding against themselves and I don't know if anyone else would have given Dempster that much money, but he was gonna get a good payday somewhere.
   148. SteveM. Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:27 PM (#3417309)
Retro, I've missed you too.

Look, the trade on paper is horrible. But essentially, you are saving $9 million by doing this instead of releasing him. Bradley had to go-he is like the Typhoid Mary of unhappiness. Silvais crap, pure garbage that I am sure Hendry and others are not counting on. The Bradley experiement was one that went horribly wrong, much like my science fair project in 8th grade that mixed ammounia and bleach. Sure, I created chemical weapons, but at what cost?
   149. SteveM. Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:30 PM (#3417311)
I want to chime in on Walt was saying. The Dempster signing last offseason looked like he overpaid, but the contract now looks like market rate. Dempster is the least of the Cubs problems. Crap all you want on the Miles signing, that was indefensible, but Iam just fine with Dempster.
   150. Dag Nabbit is a cornucopia of errors Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:34 PM (#3417314)
And the scariest part of all:

As much as he annoys and angers me, Jim Hendry may very well still be the best Cub GM in my lifetime. (cue loud crash of ominous thunder followed by a peel of maniacal, disembodied laughter).

OK, fine - Dallas Green may top him, but that just means Hendry's the best GM of meatwad's lifetime.

Some franchise, eh? Folks, some of us actually root for this club.
   151. SteveM. Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:41 PM (#3417317)
No matter how bad the Cubs management has been, at least they don't employ Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith.
   152. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:42 PM (#3417318)
Retro, I've missed you too.

Hey man, at least you've got 'bama! What do I have? Greg Paulus?

As much as he annoys and angers me, Jim Hendry may very well still be the best Cub GM in my lifetime. (cue loud crash of ominous thunder followed by a peel of maniacal, disembodied laughter).

Yeah, I know it. And yes, I was one of Hendry's biggest defenders for a while there; I was of the view that his in-season trade magic offset his pedestrian offseasons. Now, well, he's lost that magic trading touch, and his offseasons have gone from pedestrian to abysmal the last two years. He gets no quarter from me anymore.
   153. Dag Nabbit is a cornucopia of errors Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:44 PM (#3417320)
No matter how bad the Cubs management has been, at least they don't employ Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith.

Hey - at least that pair made it to their sport's championship event.
   154. Into the Void Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:50 PM (#3417323)
Remember when he 'stole' Nomar from the Red Sox? I remember the word genius being thrown around a lot by the radio talk show buffoons...
   155. tfbg9 Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:50 PM (#3417324)
The Mets would be the absolute worst destination in the known universe for Milton Bradley.


3rd worst. Red Sox, Phillies, then the Mets.
   156. Spahn Insane Posted: December 18, 2009 at 11:54 PM (#3417326)
Well, the Nomar trade didn't work out as well as the Cubs might've hoped, but it was a good trade anyway, since they hardly gave anything up; they traded Brendan Harris, along with 3 players who had almost literally no future value for Nomar and Matt Murton. Certainly it looked better at the time than it turned out, but it still turned out OK, if disappointingly.

And of course, we'll always have Ramirez/Lofton for a sack of potatoes, three bottles of Elmer's glue, and a Duncan yoyo.
   157. Sam M. Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:10 AM (#3417334)
3rd worst. Red Sox, Phillies, then the Mets.

Nope. Mets are worst.

The Red Sox could at least use him at DH, so he makes more sense for them on the field.

The Phillies, at least right now, are a winning, positive situation into which Bradley would be going. That alone would make it more likely things could, at least, get off to a better start, which for Bradley is critical. They also don't have a dysfunctional ownership/management situation.

At least at the moment, the Mets would be the worst landing spot for Bradley.
   158. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:29 AM (#3417342)
I agree w/ you, Sam M. for what very little that's worth.
   159. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM (#3417344)
I liked Bradley when he was with Oakland, but his constant DL stints made him unreliable, and also made extending his contract impossible. His anger with not getting a contract extension, and then not getting playing time made him impossible to keep. Wakamatsu knows him from Oakland and is willing to manage him. This could be a great deal for Seattle. Griffey starts on the bench and fills in when Bradley gets hurt. I think it's brilliant.

You got the Silva… you got the gelt…

You got the diamonds.....
   160. 'Spos stares out the window, waits for spring Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:34 AM (#3417345)
The Cubs would have been better off trading Bradley for Pat Burrell, throwing in 9 million bucks, and using Burrell as a DH.

And still that would be better than a straight trade for Vernon Wells.
   161. greenback calls it soccer Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:43 AM (#3417349)
Running off Milton and getting Silva (just to save 2 million) seems like about the dumbest thing Hendry could have done.

OTOH it's kinda amazing that apparently 28 other GMs thought Bradley wasn't worth 2 years / $6 million.
   162. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:50 AM (#3417353)
OTOH it's kinda amazing that apparently 28 other GMs thought Bradley wasn't worth 2 years / $6 million.

You call it "amazing", I call it "telling".
   163. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:56 AM (#3417355)
OTOH it's kinda amazing that apparently 28 other GMs thought Bradley wasn't worth 2 years / $6 million.

To be fair, most teams don't have a contract as bad as Silva's for a player they don't need, and an opening at DH.
   164. Andere Richtingen Posted: December 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM (#3417356)
What's the fireable offense? Signing Bradley in the first place, letting the situation get to the point where they had to dump him, or not being able to get more in trade?

All of the above. Actually, it's not "letting" the situation get to a point, it's actively making that happen.
   165. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:00 AM (#3417357)
Bradley's effectively cheaper than Nick Johnson. Why didn't the Yankees offer Kei Igawa + cash?
   166. Tripon Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:00 AM (#3417358)

OTOH it's kinda amazing that apparently 28 other GMs thought Bradley wasn't worth 2 years / $6 million.


28? Considering all the bridges Bradley burned shouldn't it be like 22? The guy is playing for his 8th team after all.
   167.     Hey Gurl Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:02 AM (#3417360)


In my opinion, the Soriano contract is even worse than any of the Bradley dealings. Good luck getting rid of that one...


Yup. Bradley's greatest value may have been distracting everyone from the Soriano contract. That everyone babble on over Wells but ignores Alphie is beyond me.
   168. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:03 AM (#3417362)
Alternatively, the White Sox could have offered Scott Linebrink for Bradley+cash.
   169. greenback calls it soccer Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:10 AM (#3417363)
You call it "amazing", I call it "telling".

That's a more explicit word for it. So much for the coming revolution of arbitrage desks.
   170. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:14 AM (#3417365)
Jim Hendry and the Cubs stone-aged front office are the special type of egotistical ##### that they probably refused to pay money to trade away Bradley. Now they can tell themselves they got a starting pitcher and money for the horrible murderous war criminal that was he who shall not be named.
   171. tfbg9 Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:30 AM (#3417373)
The Red Sox could at least use him at DH, so he makes more sense for them on the field.


Sam, the Red Sox have a DH already. I hope. The Mets have need of a non-crappy ballplayer to
play 1st, someone besides that nice Irish mediocrity you so uncannily forecasted.
   172. zonk Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:38 AM (#3417374)
If the Cubs saved enough payroll to sign a useful player, I'm OK with this move under the circumstances. The Cubs mishandled Bradley and acted childish thus painting themselves into a corner.


OK, look - from a baseball perspective, of course - we're taking this deal too hard.

Under the circumstances, what are you gonna do. I'd have preferred to toss in the 9 mil myself and roll the dice with Burrell, but it's not my money. Or Luis Castillo in some 3-way.

But it's just that Hendry always seems to acquire that one guy, that one player that you just grind your teeth know you're gonna hate. Miles. Marquis (though, yes - I think we've all admitted, even absent his Rox season, he pitched worth something close to 3/21). Neifi being signed for two years. Gabor hanging around like a vulture of suck. Juan Pierre. I don't expect to get some team with the perfect 25, I'd just like one season where I can look up and down the roster with no grimace points.

I'm resigned to Soriano, but with Miles gone - I was thinking this might be the season. I have my doubts about 2010 - especially if Holliday stays in STL - but I thought that at least this might be a respite... a season without hate.

For what, 3 beautiful weeks? I almost had it. 3 weeks in December. Such is the life of a Cubs fan.
   173. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:47 AM (#3417375)
Bradley's effectively cheaper than Nick Johnson. Why didn't the Yankees offer Kei Igawa + cash?

Other way round. Igawa is only owed 2/8. Cubs would have had to throw in $6-7M.

Johnson's a better hitter and Bradley is way too volatile for New York, I think.
   174. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:57 AM (#3417377)
I'm just here for the BBW Sauce. Got a bit of a slump going.
   175. zonk Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:00 AM (#3417380)
Johnson's a better hitter and Bradley is way too volatile for New York, I think.


Second city, no more, #######!
   176. SteveM. Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:06 AM (#3417382)
Or Luis Castillo in some 3-way.


Zonk, you are revealing way too much personal info there.
   177. Sam M. Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:12 AM (#3417384)
Or Luis Castillo in some 3-way.

Zonk, you are revealing way too much personal info there.


That could never work anyway. Castillo can barely turn two any more.
   178. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:23 AM (#3417386)
That everyone babble on over Wells but ignores Alphie is beyond me.

Well, the extra $3.4m a year might have something to do with it. Only one of those contracts is paying a replacement level player over $21M per season.
   179. Tripon Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:25 AM (#3417387)
It is kinda odd how the Mets can't eat $4 million a year to upgrade from Luis Castillo.
   180. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:28 AM (#3417388)
Well, the extra $3.4m a year might have something to do with it. Only one of those contracts is paying a replacement level player over $21M per season.

Also, I don't think we're sure Soriano's done yet. He's only had one bad year. Maybe he can bounce back from injury and be a decent player again. He won't earn his contract, but might be above average.

Wells' defense has completely collapsed and is now three years into suckitude. I think everyone's pretty sure he's toasty.
   181. PreservedFish Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:30 AM (#3417389)
Castillo sucks but he is actually rather far down the list of Mets problems.
   182. Tripon Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:38 AM (#3417391)
yeah, but with the glut of Middle infielders, its wouldn't be hard to find a 2nd base starter.
   183. RollingWave Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:11 AM (#3417406)
I'd do Kei Igawa for Alfonso Soriano. toss in a Brett Gardner and Cubs pay the Yanks a couple Ms too.

It seems high time for the Yanks to recollect lost former prospects !
   184. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:20 AM (#3417413)
In addition to Ryan and Ortiz, the Dodgers released Andruw Jones last year though they saved some money in the restructuring.

And then there is the Denny Neagle situation.
   185. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:24 AM (#3417415)
I'd do Kei Igawa for Alfonso Soriano. toss in a Brett Gardner and Cubs pay the Yanks a couple Ms too.

It seems high time for the Yanks to recollect lost former prospects !


Cub fan?
   186. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:26 AM (#3417417)
Right-hander Carlos Silva, whom the Cubs acquired along with $9 million, has been monitored by the Cubs during Winter Ball in Venezuela, in hopes that he'll be able to turn things around.

Silva will compete for a starting spot this spring, and is likely to begin the season in the rotation, at least until Ted Lilly gets back sometime in May. After that, it depends on how Silva fares on the mound. He could wind up in middle relief.


-Paul Sullivan, Chicago Tribune
   187. RollingWave Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:36 AM (#3417419)
ok, nevermind, I actually checked the contract detail and realized that it was far more horrific than I thought.

I would't even do Kei Igawa strait up for that. not unless they throw in like 50 Million bucks
   188. Torn_cuff (Special Ability Extra) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:39 AM (#3417420)
per Chone, Silva projects to 0.9 WAR


What is the batting practice pitcher, 1.1? The lefty version 1.2? Does the bullpen catcher get 0.6?
   189. Posada Posse Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3417423)
Right-hander Carlos Silva, whom the Cubs acquired along with $9 million, has been monitored by the Cubs during Winter Ball in Venezuela, in hopes that he'll be able to turn things around.


Interesting. I was able to track down how he's been doing in the Venezuelan League. As of December 14:
8 innings, 14 hits, 2 K's, 3 walks, 3 HR's allowed, 7.88 ERA, 1-0 record for Caribes de Anzoategui. 3 appearances, 1 game started.

http://blogs.noticias24.com/beisbol/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/estadisticas-lvbp-2009-2010.pdf (page 6 of 13)
   190. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3417424)
per Chone, Silva projects to 0.9 WAR


I thought Silva WAS "R".
   191. Walt Davis Posted: December 19, 2009 at 04:24 AM (#3417431)
8 innings, 14 hits, 2 K's, 3 walks, 3 HR's allowed, 7.88 ERA, 1-0 record for Caribes de Anzoategui. 3 appearances, 1 game started.

And you're probably one of those people who ridicules the notion of pitching to the score.
   192. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: December 19, 2009 at 04:55 AM (#3417437)
i really hate this trade, i think MB would have been just fine in rf next year and that his bat would bounce back. now they have a gap in the outfield, and not the kind that silvas fat ass could fill. so lets see they need pen arms, a rf/cf, second base, and what a sp?
   193. Alex_Lewis Posted: December 19, 2009 at 09:12 AM (#3417477)
Anyone read this piece of tripe?
   194.     Hey Gurl Posted: December 19, 2009 at 09:16 AM (#3417479)
Geez, that was ugly Alex. Is this what you were going for? ;-)
   195. Alex_Lewis Posted: December 19, 2009 at 09:31 AM (#3417480)
It wouldn't be a real day if I didn't fail at something. How on earth did that happen? Reading the URL, something went to pieces, that's for sure. Yes, that was the crappy article I was going for.
   196. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 19, 2009 at 01:09 PM (#3417492)
Yawn. The Mariners are taking on very little risk here. Silva was probably going to be cut if he couldn't be traded so the Mariners would only be eating a couple million extra if they cut Bradley.
   197. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3417501)
Don't think it was you, Alex - Shock's link is gibberish now as well.
   198. McCoy Posted: December 19, 2009 at 02:18 PM (#3417502)
Yawn. The Mariners are taking on very little risk here. Silva was probably going to be cut if he couldn't be traded so the Mariners would only be eating a couple million extra if they cut Bradley.

One could say the owners are taking on very little risk here but the GM and manager are taking on a ton of risk. Silva wasn't Z's debacle but Bradley will be Z's debacle if things go crazy. He had Bavasi's Silva at 25 million and now he has his own Bradley at 30 million.

Even if it works out Bradley isn't the type of player that is worth 15 million a year though I guess if you want to look at it from a sunnk cost point of view he most certainly can be worth 2.5 million a year. I don't know if the owners are going to look at it like that if Bradley goes Bradley.

Now then in a sunk cost point of view Carlos Silva is free for the Cubs not only that but he is paying them so in a lot of ways anything positive the Cubs get out of him will be a tremendous bonus. That is of course only true if the Cubs are not afraid to cut him if he doesn't look to be good or turns sour. Again though I have no idea if the new owners will look upon the 16 million that got sunk as an "oh well", especially since Hendry was the one that sunk that money.
   199. Spahn Insane Posted: December 19, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3417527)
Bradley is owed $22 million over two years, meaning the Mariners are losing $6 million as well as clubhouse harmony.

My understanding is that Silva gave Bradley a run for his money in the "disrupting clubhouse harmony" department...
   200. SteveM. Posted: December 19, 2009 at 04:27 PM (#3417566)
Retro,
I doubt anyone can match Bradley for disrupting a clubhouse. He is like OJ Simpson showing up at a Goldman family reunion.
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