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Wednesday, April 04, 2018

Shohei Ohtani belts first major league homer in Angels’ victory | OC Register

Your daily Shohei update.

Just over 48 hours after Ohtani The Pitcher had a breakthrough performance, Ohtani The Hitter delivered a three-run homer as part of three-hit game.

Ohtani pitched six innings to pick up the victory on Sunday, retiring 14 of the last 15 hitters after all three runs came on one bad pitch.

Then on Tuesday, in his first game at Angel Stadium, he belted a homer and then blistered two other singles. He’s now 4 for 9 in two games as the team’s designated hitter.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 04, 2018 at 04:08 AM | 75 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, line for the bandwagon starts behind me, shohei ohtani

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:24 AM (#5647834)
It's kind of amazing that he hit that out of the park, he's a strong kid. And regarding that tag, I've been on the Ohtani bandwagon for years!
   2. . . . . . . Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:38 AM (#5647838)
Sho hei
Willie Mays Ohtani here
   3. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:47 AM (#5647839)
Um, that is awesome.

Good video link here.

Also, that might be the first time I've seen someone absolutely fooled by that "pretend nothing unusual happened" move by the bench. Poor kid really wanted someone to share his joy.
   4. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:56 AM (#5647840)

Also, that might be the first time I've seen someone absolutely fooled by that "pretend nothing unusual happened" move by the bench. Poor kid really wanted someone to share his joy.

That was my favorite part of the video. Great stuff.
   5. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5647843)
He looks so sweet and innocent!
   6. BDC Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:06 AM (#5647844)
Meh, let me know when he actually passes Bartolo Colon in career HR.
   7. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5647847)
Is it time to toldja so the naysayers from just a week ago?

Like this rube...

56. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: March 28, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5644092)
Dropping him to A ball would have been ridiculous - unless there's some sort of particular pitching or hitting instruction best for him at that level...

However, I don't understand the obstinance in having him start the year at AAA... Even without him, the offseason moves would seem to say that the Angels think of themselves as contenders (their weird unwillingness to supplant journeymen like Blake Parker and Jim Johsnson as the top bullpen guys aside).

Why not let him spend a month at AAA, let the hype subside a bit, get his American baseball feet wet away from the spotlight?
   8. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5647854)
Also, that might be the first time I've seen someone absolutely fooled by that "pretend nothing unusual happened" move by the bench. Poor kid really wanted someone to share his joy.


Is the silent treatment a thing in Japan? That was pretty awesome, he was dying you could tell.

Looking at that home run he looks very strong. That ball really carried. Watching it on replay I knew it was going to be a homer but when he hit it I didn't think "oh yeah" I thought "really?" but it just carried.
   9. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:58 AM (#5647857)
Ohtani is huge. You could see him putting on muscle too. Huge shoulders. I hope he hits. This is really the coolest thing ever.
   10. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5647891)
Yeah, Ohtani is 6'4", or the same height as Kershaw. He's listed at 203 lbs, he could easily put on 20 pounds and still be pretty lanky.

If he wins 12 and hits 12 dingers he'll be the only member of the 12/12 club. Ruth managed 13 wins and 11 homers in 1918, then the next year won 9 and hit 29 dingers. That seems doable. I would love for Ohtani to someday be the sole member of the 20/20 wins/HR club.
   11. asinwreck Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5647892)
This is a good thing. Let's enjoy the ride.
   12. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5647894)
I would love for Ohtani to someday be the sole member of the 20/20 wins/HR club.


That would be extraordinary. I think 10/10 is a good goal for this season.
   13. puck Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5647901)
The scene in the dugout was great. Which player did he finally grab to celebrate?
   14. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5647903)
Remember when Ohtani absolutely couldn't hit a major league curveball because scouts said so? That was neat.
   15. Batman Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5647910)
The scene in the dugout was great. Which player did he finally grab to celebrate?
I think it's Kinsler. A lot of veteran leadership on that team. You can tell by how well the silent treatment was played.
   16. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5647915)
It was Kinsler, and yeah - his reaction in the dugout with the fake high fives and just wanting to hug someone was the best. Talk about a huge weight off his shoulders after all the pressure in spring training and all the struggles.

I'm all aboard the Ohtani train - I hope he gets the 20/20. Stuff like this can only make baseball more popular.
   17. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 04, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5647929)
Is the silent treatment a thing in Japan? That was pretty awesome, he was dying you could tell.


The story in the Japan Times today notes of the silent treatment that "It was a tradition Ohtani wasn’t familiar with". He had absolutely no idea what was going on, because he had never seen it before.
   18. Shredder Posted: April 04, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5647950)
It was Kinsler, and yeah - his reaction in the dugout with the fake high fives and just wanting to hug someone was the best. Talk about a huge weight off his shoulders after all the pressure in spring training and all the struggles.
I think the poor spring actually helped tamp down the expectations coming into the season. Probably the best thing that could have happened to him. I can't really say "finally something to get excited about!" on a team with Mike Trout, but at least this Angels team looks like they'll be fun to watch. Last couple years has been me basically streaming the game on my iPad, not paying attention other than the to check the score every once in a while, and then watching Mike Trout's at bats. Now I have nearly a whole team whose at bats I want to watch!
   19. Matt Welch Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5647964)
My new favorite player, and it's not close. They were showing him in BP hitting balls to that Barry Bonds spot....
   20. jmurph Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5647969)
Ohtani is huge. You could see him putting on muscle too. Huge shoulders. I hope he hits. This is really the coolest thing ever.

I hate the Angels and I still hope he wins every damn start and absolutely mashes. It's the coolest baseball thing to happen in years.
   21. bunyon Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5647971)
20/20?

Pshaw. I am hoping for 30/30. Let the unbridled enthusiasm out, boys.
   22. BDC Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5647973)
Dang, Ohtani is scheduled to start on Sunday against Oakland, so he will likely not pitch in the Rangers series next week. Maybe something will happen and his start will happen Monday in Texas instead, so I can see it. I should get to see him bat, at least.
   23. JAHV Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5647989)
That moment in the dugout was so cool. He grabbed Kinsler because he just couldn't handle the silence any more, and Kinsler had to just burst out laughing with joy. The Angels are going to have some issues this season (starting pitching is a question mark and the bullpen looks like it could be a roller coaster ride), but they have so many fun players to watch - Trout, Ohtani, Simmons, Cozart. Heck, Albert's swing looks a lot better this season and he's in better shape than he's been in for 3 years. A Wild Card run where they at least keep things interesting with the Astros for the division would be a successful season, in my opinion.
   24. Greg Pope Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5647993)
Pshaw. I am hoping for 30/30. Let the unbridled enthusiasm out, boys.

Tongue in cheek, I know, but is going to even get 30 starts? I know they were talking about a 6-man rotation, but they've had injuries already. What is the plan for his pitching schedule?
   25. bunyon Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5647997)
He'll pick up some wins in relief. (I'm not being very serious in this thread. If I were, I'd agree 10/10 would be awesome, with 15/15 an absolute ceiling in terms of goal. He's not going to get a full season of AB or starts).
   26. bunyon Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5647999)
Has any starter ever outhomered their opponents? That would be a good goal.
   27. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5648004)
Has any starter ever outhomered their opponents? That would be a good goal.


Ruth did, several times
   28. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5648008)
Has any starter ever outhomered their opponents? That would be a good goal.
Well, Ruth of course did multiple times. 1915, 16, (tied in 17), 18, 19. I think it's still fair to describe him as a starter through 1919; he started 15 games and threw 133 innings that year.

Part coke to Misirlou.
   29. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5648026)
Has any starter ever outhomered their opponents? That would be a good goal.


Walter Johnson did it four times (1910, 1915, 1916, 1919), and tied three times (1909, 1912, 1914).

Johnson played 13 games in the outfield during his career. As late as 1919 he started two games in center field, hitting sixth both times.
   30. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5648031)
Dang, Ohtani is scheduled to start on Sunday against Oakland, so he will likely not pitch in the Rangers series next week.
For the foreseeable future, he's only going to start Sundays. Like in Japan, he'll have Saturday off for prep, Sunday to start, Monday to rest, and DH the rest of the week. He'll also likely sit against lefty starters for now, but if he continues to hit, that may change.

That homer was not the hardest ball he hit last night. Statcast had his single in the 8th at 112.8 MPH.
   31. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5648037)
For the foreseeable future, he's only going to start Sundays. Like in Japan, he'll have Saturday off for prep, Sunday to start, Monday to rest, and DH the rest of the week.


I don't care if this is stupid or smart, I'm just glad they're accommodating this guy. He's more important than the Angels are. Angels fans may disagree.
   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5648054)
Wes Ferrell never did it, but he tied twice, in 1931 with 9, and in 1934 with 4.
   33. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5648056)
The Angels are a team that I think probably can do well with a floating schedule like that. They've got what looks like a solid staff around Ohtani and while Richards can be an Ace in every sense of the word he's missed effectively two full seasons so an occasional six day break between starts probably isn't the worst option for him.
   34. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5648058)

Has any starter ever outhomered their opponents? That would be a good goal.


Given he pitches in the AL, hasn't he already accomplished that goal for the season?
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5648097)
Given he pitches in the AL, hasn't he already accomplished that goal for the season?


I think the original poster meant HR hit vs. HR allowed.

Of course, Ruth really did manage the feat of more HR hit than a few of his opponents hit as an entire team against all pitchers. I'm skeptical Ohtani can ever match that.

   36. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5648104)
Is the silent treatment a thing in Japan?

It can be, if you're born into the wrong family.
   37. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5648108)
Baseball is a lot more fun this year so far.
   38. Batman Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5648120)
Ichiro could get the silent treatment if he wanted to.
   39. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5648125)
Per fangraphs, only 4 pitchers have 5+ HRs since 1972. Bumgarner, Zambrano, Kieschnick, and Hampton. I'm guessing they'd classify Ohtani as a DH though rather than a pitcher as Ruth is not listed as a pitcher in 1918 or 1919.
   40. bunyon Posted: April 04, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5648129)
I think the original poster meant HR hit vs. HR allowed.

Correct.

Ruth, of course. You can't read my mind, obviously, but I meant, "other than Ruth". Glad to see there have been a few. I'm doubtful he can do it this year, but it would be cool if Ohtani pulled it off in a full season for the first time in the integrated era.
   41. JAHV Posted: April 04, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5648165)
He's more important than the Angels are. Angels fans may disagree.


We do [disagree, that is], but he's obviously an asset that needs to be handled properly in order to get the most value. I know that sounds cold and callous, but it just means taking care of him in a way that helps him acclimate and be most effective while keeping him healthy. If he's hurt or struggling to adjust, he's no help to the team.
   42. Greg Pope Posted: April 04, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5648180)
I don't know the details of calculating WAR, but is Ohtani's WAR going to be messed up? His hitting is going to blow away the hitting from other pitchers, but most (if not all) of that will be with AB as DH. WAR isn't calculated on a game-by-game basis, right? I don't know how WAR handles players who play different fielding positions, like say, Zobrist.
   43. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5648289)

I don't know the details of calculating WAR, but is Ohtani's WAR going to be messed up? His hitting is going to blow away the hitting from other pitchers, but most (if not all) of that will be with AB as DH. WAR isn't calculated on a game-by-game basis, right? I don't know how WAR handles players who play different fielding positions, like say, Zobrist.


I don't think it will be messed up. Replacement level is calculated based on the number of games (or is it innings?) played at each position. So it shouldn't be any different than it is for a guy who splits time between SS and 3B.
   44. Voodoo Posted: April 04, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5648290)
His hitting is going to blow away the hitting from other pitchers, but most (if not all) of that will be with AB as DH.


Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to compare him to other pitchers, since he plays in the AL (except for starts he makes in NL parks, where the advantage he brings gets pronounced) but applying any sort of DH-position penalty of course is wrong, too.
   45. Shredder Posted: April 04, 2018 at 05:56 PM (#5648301)
Well, he now has more homers hit than allowed.
   46. Khrushin it bro Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5648307)
DH-position penalty of course is wrong, too.


Just compare him to Pujols.
   47. Walt Davis Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5648311)
WAR should handle him OK. Rpos is based on actual positions played. Any game in which he pitches and hits, he'll gain some advantage as Rpos will be calculated as a P (I assume) but, if that's an inter-league game, that's also a legit advantage.

For his career, Ankiel hit more than he gave up but that's just cuz his pitching career was so short. Zambrano may have come as close as a non-Ruthian modern SP could in 2009 with 4 hit and only 10 allowed (in 169 IP). It's the only 10 allowed in 169 IP in 2009 that was the impressive part.

Cherry-picking but during his amazing run in the 2nd half of 2015, Arrieta hit both of his HRs that year and gave up just 2 during the streak. Again, it's only 2 HR in over half a season that's the amazing part.
   48. Batman Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5648312)
Just compare him to Pujols.
He's ahead of Pujols in HR, R, and RBI now, in about one-third the plate appearances.
   49. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5648315)
Goddamned, he didn't even swing that hard at his second HR.
   50. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5648316)

OK, I see what you're saying. For games he pitches will it compare his hitting to a pitcher or to a DH, since he's in the AL? I guess it will probably overstate his hitting WAR unless folks make an adjustment to the calculation.
   51. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5648317)
For games he pitches will it compare his hitting to a pitcher or to a DH,


In NL games, he'll be compared to a pitcher who hits.

I don't think he'll hit in the AL games in which he pitches. If he does, I would imagine he'd be compared to an AL pitcher on the mound and a DH at the plate.
   52. ptodd Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5648322)
With his 2nd HR today I would be looking for ways to get his bat in the lineup more often.
   53. Greg Pope Posted: April 04, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5648329)
For games he pitches will it compare his hitting to a pitcher or to a DH, since he's in the AL?

This is sort of my point. Does WAR actually look at hitting stats for individual games, or is it just a percentage. In other words, if you had a guy who played half his games at 2B and half at RF, and somehow got all of his hits for the year when he played 2B and never got a hit when playing OF, would it be reflected that way in WAR? Or would it take the hitting value and split it evenly?
   54. Hank Gillette Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5648342)
I don't think he'll hit in the AL games in which he pitches. If he does, I would imagine he'd be compared to an AL pitcher on the mound and a DH at the plate.


I don’t think he will either, since once he leaves the game, the other pitchers will have to hit or be taken out for a pinch hitter. If he were to hit in an AL game, though, he definitely should get credit for his hitting as a pitcher. That’s the position he would be playing.
   55. Hank Gillette Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5648344)
Also, that might be the first time I've seen someone absolutely fooled by that "pretend nothing unusual happened" move by the bench. Poor kid really wanted someone to share his joy.


I love that tradition, even though I didn’t even know it existed until a couple of years ago, when Clint Robinson hit his first major league home run for the Nationals. I don’t think the TV cameras always follow the hitter into the dugout.
   56. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:15 PM (#5648350)
If he were to hit in an AL game, though, he definitely should get credit for his hitting as a pitcher. That’s the position he would be playing.


He'd be replacing the DH in the lineup. That's what his offensive should be compared to.
   57. BDC Posted: April 04, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5648406)
Bob Lemon in 1948 hit five HR and gave up 12. Twelve HR in 294 IP sounds amazing but he was only seventh-best in the AL in HR rate that year.
   58. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5648457)

You can't read my mind, obviously,
Actually, I can, and... ewwwwwww.
   59. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 05, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5648458)
I know you can read MY thought boy.

Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow...
   60. DavidFoss Posted: April 05, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5648486)
In other words, if you had a guy who played half his games at 2B and half at RF, and somehow got all of his hits for the year when he played 2B and never got a hit when playing OF, would it be reflected that way in WAR? Or would it take the hitting value and split it evenly?

I believe its linear. Batting runs is based on wRAA which is based on wOBA which is basically linear weights per plate appearance. There are a lot of park and league adjustments along the way. Depending on the order of those, I don't think I can guarantee that it is *purely* linear, but any nonlinearities would be small and unintentional in my opinion. You should be able to split Bryce Harper's plate appearances into two players and the sum of those two Rbat's should be the total Rbat. (The park factors might be slightly different if more of his outs occur in pitchers parks -- but that should be a small effect and should balance out).

Rpos is an independent calculation and is applied later.

I'd be most worried about the defensive metrics. I never know how long it takes for those to smooth out. Some of the small sample Rfield numbers can look a bit funny but less so at the end of the year. Occasionally, a multi-position player like Zobrist posts a very high Rfield and I wonder if he could have sustained that if he had stayed all year at his best position.
   61. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 05, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5648507)
Walter Johnson hit 1 homer in 1916 and gave up 0.

If Wes Ferrell never did it, I doubt anyone did since Babe Ruth. Some pitchers were on par with Wes Ferrell as hitters but they didn't have any power (Red Ruffing, Schoolboy Rowe, George Uhle). Then later, Don Newcombe and Earl Wilson hit 7 home runs in a season but they were giving up 20 or 30.
   62. Nasty Nate Posted: April 05, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5648580)
I don't think any reliever has fluked into it, either. Although I found Mark Worrell (no relation) who hit one and gave up one in 2008.
   63. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 05, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5648590)
I don't think any reliever has fluked into it, either. Although I found Mark Worrell (no relation) who hit one and gave up one in 2008.


Brooks Keishnick did, but he was a hybrid like Ohtani
   64. bunyon Posted: April 05, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5648628)
Brooks Keishnick did, but he was a hybrid like Ohtani

I missed him. I checked but somehow not well enough. He hit 7 HR in 76 PA in 2003, giving up 5 HR in 53 IP. Not sure where to set the endpoints to exclude him. I wouldn't exclude hybrids like Kieschnik or Ruth. It seems to me like we just need someone who is a legit pitcher, meaning they are used in non-emergency situations, so we don't get a LFer throwing a 15th inning.
   65. PreservedFish Posted: April 05, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5648631)
Why exclude Keishnick? That was a badass performance.
   66. bunyon Posted: April 05, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5648658)
PF: Right. I wasn't "trying" to exclude him. I said it badly. I could find no reason to exclude him.
   67. Greg Pope Posted: April 05, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5648774)
It seems to me like we just need someone who is a legit pitcher, meaning they are used in non-emergency situations, so we don't get a LFer throwing a 15th inning.

Right. Doug Dascenzo pitched in both 1990 and 1991 without giving up any runs. He hit 1 HR in each of those years. He doesn't count, but Kieschnick should.
   68. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 05, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5648787)
I missed him. I checked but somehow not well enough. He hit 7 HR in 76 PA in 2003, giving up 5 HR in 53 IP. Not sure where to set the endpoints to exclude him. I wouldn't exclude hybrids like Kieschnik or Ruth. It seems to me like we just need someone who is a legit pitcher, meaning they are used in non-emergency situations, so we don't get a LFer throwing a 15th inning.


I could have sworn I found another guy hit something like 3 or 4 and gave up fewer than 2 in about 22 IP, but I can neither remember who he was nor find him.
   69. Walt Davis Posted: April 05, 2018 at 05:50 PM (#5648935)
#53 ... It doesn't matter what position you played when you generated your offense. Rbat is measured vs a league-average, park-adjusted hitter regardless of position.

Position matters of Rpos and I assume is based on the proportion of PAs at each position you played, or possibly the proportion of innings. This is where things might get slightly messed up if there are AL games where he pitches and hits. It would be easy enough to put in an individual-level fix for that by setting his batting Rpos to a DH for any such games but whether Sean would ever want to implement such a fix into an otherwise standardized system is another question.

For example, the last few years, for his 70ish PA per year, Jon Lester gets +10 Rpos. In those 70 PAs, relative to a league-average hitter, he puts up about -10 Rbat. So he's been roughly league average after positional adjustment. Pitchers receive no Rrep for their hitting (I suppose this makes sense, it's captured in their pitching WAR).

For simplicity's sake, let's assume Ohtani hits only in inter-league starts. That's just 2-3 starts in a season so it's only going to give him maybe 1 Rpos. If we assume that he is also roughly a half-time DH, that's an Rpos around -7. Total Rpos for the year of -6.

That would also add up to about 350 PA. We don't know what kind of hitter he'll be but let's say it really only makes sense to use him as a 2-way player if he's at least as good as 2015-16 Pujols (or a typical Trumbo) season. Then in 350 PA he'd compile around 7-8 Rbat. Maybe he's as good as EE then it would be 15 Rbat in 350 PA. In the first case, the Rbat slightly outpaces the Rpos and he adds a smidgen to his WAA plus he gets about 10 Rrep (half a DH season). In the second case, he adds another .7 WAA, give or take. Add it all up and it's 1.2 to 1.7 WAR, .2 to .7 WAA.

In the "worst"-case scenario for WAR calculations, let's say he always hits when he pitches, AL and interleague. Then possibly, the current WAR algorithm might treat him as a pitcher for an additional 60 PA or so. Based on Lester, that would add about 9 Rpos while he was adding probably no more than 1-2 Rbat with those extra PAs. So that would distort his WAR pretty substantially ... so they probably will fix it if it becomes an issue.

This will have come up at least once before, the game where the Rays accidentally lost the DH when they listed two guys at 3B on their lineup card. But just one game, SP probably got no more than 2 PA, Sean might not have even considered whether it should be fixed.

An angels on the head of a pin style question is how good of a hitter does Ohtani have to be (relative to options) to make it worthwhile to have him hit when he pitches in the AL, knowing that you will not have the DH once he's removed from the game or moved to another position? You'd get him about 60 extra PAs (maybe more if you bat him high in the lineup on those days) while replacing probably 45 DH PAs with PH PAs. Given how terrible PHs usually are, I suspect he'd really have to rake to make that worthwhile.
   70. Batman Posted: April 05, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5648943)
Willie Smith hit 11 HR in 1964, mostly as an outfielder. He gave up 5 HR in the 31 innings he pitched. He had a start, and he was otherwise used as a legit reliever, not just in blowouts or as the last guy in extra inning games. He had a 2.84 ERA and got five decisions.

Chris Gimenez isn't a real pitcher but he did finish six Twins blowout losses last year. He gave up one HR and hit 7.
   71. Walt Davis Posted: April 05, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5649072)
I had thought of Kieshnick but just assumed he never got enough PA in a season that he pitched to hit enough HRs. Which in a way was true as that 7 HR season was on just 76 PA, a 60 HR pace. Giving up 5 HR in 53 IP is a solid performance so I think it should count.
   72. PreservedFish Posted: April 05, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5649079)
This would be a crazy feat for Ohtani. If his usage is something like what we expect, he likely faces 500+ batters as a pitcher, vs only 250 ABs or so as a hitter.
   73. ReggieThomasLives Posted: April 07, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5649704)
3 HR now.

   74. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: April 07, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5649829)
Brooks Keishnick did, but he was a hybrid like Ohtani

On a related note, Kieshnick is the answer to one of my favorite baseball trivia questions - he's the last pitcher to draw an intentional walk. (I haven't re-checked the splits all the way back, but I believe he's the only one since the DH era began... at least, until Ohtani gets into an interleague game.)
   75. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 08, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5649896)
Walter Johnson hit 1 homer in 1916 and gave up 0.


Looking at the more recent posts I realize that this may not look impressive until I specify that this was in 369.2 IP (and 142 at-bats).

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